Apple Struggles in Push To Make Healthcare Its Greatest Legacy (wsj.com) 50
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook has said the company's greatest contribution to mankind will be in health. So far, some Apple initiatives aimed at broadly disrupting the healthcare sector have struggled to gain traction, according to people familiar with them and documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. From the report: Apple has envisioned an audacious plan for healthcare, offering its own primary-care medical service with Apple-employed doctors at its own clinics, according to people familiar with the plan and documents. To test that and other bold healthcare ideas, it took over clinics that catered to its employees and built a team with scores of clinicians, engineers, product designers and others. Today those ambitions, which aren't widely known, have largely stalled as Apple has shifted the focus of its health unit to something it knows well: Selling devices, specifically the Apple Watch, according to people familiar with its strategy.
The new primary-care service hasn't gotten off the ground, people familiar with it say. A digital health app launched quietly this year has struggled to keep users engaged, say people familiar with the app and the documents seen by the Journal. Some employees have raised questions internally about the integrity of health data coming from the company's clinics that has been used to support product development, according to people familiar with their concerns and the documents.
The new primary-care service hasn't gotten off the ground, people familiar with it say. A digital health app launched quietly this year has struggled to keep users engaged, say people familiar with the app and the documents seen by the Journal. Some employees have raised questions internally about the integrity of health data coming from the company's clinics that has been used to support product development, according to people familiar with their concerns and the documents.
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away? (Score:3)
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Re:An Apple a day keeps the doctor away? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, I've had enough dystopian news for today already, thank you very much.
Then you're really not going to like it when we translate the following...
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook has said the company's greatest contribution to mankind will be in health...
...into English:
Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook has said the company's greatest extraction of value from mankind will be in health.
Re:An Apple a day keeps the doctor away? (Score:4, Insightful)
They have probably just run up against the limits of the technology.
Sounds good on paper. What if you could have an ECG all the time, monitor your vitals in real-time? And what if we gathered all that information from millions of people and fed it into our Big Data AI machine? Surely the reason why doctors haven't cured all ailments is simply because they don't have enough data!
In reality data and some encouragement to take more steps isn't going to fix most people's problems. They are either serious and need proper medical attention, or they are lifestyle related and won't be solved by taking the stairs.
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All the data? No. But when was the last time you heard them say, we need less data. There's a reason for so many tests.
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They have probably just run up against the limits of the technology.
Sounds good on paper. What if you could have an ECG all the time, monitor your vitals in real-time? And what if we gathered all that information from millions of people and fed it into our Big Data AI machine? Surely the reason why doctors haven't cured all ailments is simply because they don't have enough data!
In reality data and some encouragement to take more steps isn't going to fix most people's problems. They are either serious and need proper medical attention, or they are lifestyle related and won't be solved by taking the stairs.
Yep, doctors don't need more data, doctors need reliable tools and for patients to start doing what they're fucking told instead of doctor shopping for the one that gives them pleasing answers.
Researchers need the data, they are the ones that come up with new treatments, test them, get them certified and for the most part, this is done in a public institution like a university before being snapped up by private companies.
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Apple makes a huge amount of money selling their shitty, over-priced widgets. Getting involved in healthcare is nothing more than a pet project of a clueless CEO.
It ain't dialup and dip switches anymore sweetheart, but FB and Twitter and Co., with false starts like vine along the way. After all these years you still can't grasp the breadth of ego these people have? Entire industries being replaced by singular corporate entities becoming the sole source of what you understand about the world around you. You need to stop taking sides. There are none.
Hard to shift to lower margin industry (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple's entire approach to running a business is built upon creating a market where they can have a roughly 40% operating margin. This allows for an extreme amount of spending and relatively few price controls because their primary focus is maintaining that market strength. Hospitals have a much lower operating margin. Closer to 5% across the industry.
Apple would likely do better to just fund startups than to try this itself. I cannot read the entire article because of a paywall, but it does appear Apple's management already got bored and shifted to creating devices where it can keep their high margins (if successful). This just isn't something Apple's management is set up to be successful at.
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the devices could be an important part of the strategy all along. i haven't read the doc either, but people having automatic personal health monitoring and even ongoing advice is something where i could definitely see a huge market in the future, both for devices and services. it may just take a while but it would seem they want to be there first. also, that will likely be mostly ai-run but to set it up and get it going you really need the expertise of human medical staff and experts.
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Yes, Apple could increase people's healthcare costs dramatically with their watches & phones that aren't licensed medical devices telling everyone to go see their doctor because of 1 or 2 anomalous data points, AKA false positives.
But then, that's the business Apple are in, i.e. making stuff more expensive, isn't it?
30% cut will not work under the ACA rules (Score:3)
30% cut will not work under the ACA rules that say. They must spend 80-85 percent of their premiums (after subtracting taxes and regulatory fees) on medical costs.
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I think the better idea is for them to stay out of healthcare, but use this as an opportunity to figure out what kind of devices to build that can be sold to hospitals or even consumers that make the system better. If they're even moderately successful at that I suspect it would do a good deal more than anything
Re: 30% cut will not work under the ACA rules (Score:4, Funny)
Nah, all apple really has to do is use their lobbying muscle to make anti-right-to-repair laws that apply to people as well. They just have to argue that allowing iFans to fix themselves will harm their privacy and security. Then they can just charge whatever they want.
Wankers (Score:4, Funny)
Apple has envisioned an audacious plan for healthcare, offering its own primary-care medical service with Apple-employed doctors at its own clinics
Hey doc, my dick ain't working right.
You're holding it wrong.
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It's missing a piece, so your warranty is void.
Easy to use equipment. (Score:2)
Apple ease-of-use coming to medical equipment near you.
Apple's legacy will be abuse of its monopoly. (Score:2)
Deja vu all over again (Score:2)
Submissions to the FDA are NOT easy (Score:1)
Biggest U.S. healthcare problem is cost (Score:5, Insightful)
biggest issue is not cost, but lack of prevention! (Score:2)
And Apple is going to be the ones to fix it???
Your joke is funny, but there is an opportunity for a consumer technology company to make a difference. A bunch of posters keep talking about the cost. However, what percentage of illnesses are preventable? How many illnesses would have been less severe and and cheaper to treat if caught early?
Sure, some are just freak occurrences and there's nothing you could have done to prevent it, like many cancers. However, lung cancer would be much rarer if people never smoked. Diabetes would be rarer if people
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lack of prevention
Lack of prevention - and possibly the "vaccine" - are the only things protecting us from overpopulation... fortunately, McDonalds franchises across the southern hemisphere will take care of that.
Good! (Score:1)
Let them 'struggle' themselves into oblivion in this marked so they can GTFO. The last thing the world needs is Apple's brand of "courage" in the healthcare space. "Sorry, the battery in that $40,000 patient monitoring station isn't replaceable - you'll need to buy a whole new station. Should've bought that AppleCare warranty extension!"
Apple's "legacy" in healthcare should be that they left it the fuck alone.
Can't wait to see the Apple doctor. (Score:4, Funny)
Me: It hurts when I bend my elbow. ... ... ...
Doctor: You're bending it wrong.
Me:
Doctor:
Me:
Doctor: That'll be $12,000
Re:Can't wait to see the Apple doctor. (Score:5, Insightful)
So... what would be the difference with the actual healthcare in the US?
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Exactly.
If Apple really truly wanted to fix healthcare, they'd take their obscene billions in free cash and lobby the crap out of every congresscritter until we had a no-deductible "Medicare (A,B,C and supplemental) For Everyone" system in place.
Fancy gadgets will at best be zero-value and more likely counterproductive
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Me: It hurts when I bend my elbow.
You're doing it wrong; it's all in the wrist.
So take your meds! (Score:2)
Maybe a medical watch will take off. Maybe it won't. One thing's for certain.
If it does, there will be no shortage of politicians calling them evil for hogging the market and taking so much profit from something that doesn't even exist yet.
Some of you have rage posts about it waiting to be born, and they aren't even a gleam in your eye at the moment.
What bothers me is the headline (Score:2)
If they really want to make a difference (Score:2)
They should spend their money on lobbying for Universal healthcare in places where it doesn't exist, and reforms/upgrades in places where it does, but it needs some work.
Rather than having doctors at every Apple store, just make it so that people can see a doctor in the USA.
In Canada, lobby for pharmacare and universal dental care.
That's how you leave a legacy of change.
How about Apple does something serious for HC... (Score:1)
How about Apple does something serious for healthcare... and gets single payer passed in the US? They would be heroes beyond belief, and it would only help them, as money that people have going to health insurance companies and hospital bills would probably go for more Apple products. Plus, it ensures a better workforce.
I'm sure people will call this "socialism", but with the US paying twice as much per capita, and total as any other country in the world, how can the US do worse?
It already has a stealthy foothold in health care. (Score:3)
Three years ago a family member got gravely ill and spent over a month in a tier 3 ICU at Rush University in Chicago, a medical center so advanced that my wife compared it to being beamed up to a giant spaceship where benevolent aliens dispensed futuristic health care to the backward Earthlings.
One thing I noticed was there were Apple Watches *everywhere*, on the wrists of everyone from the respiratory technicians to the big wheel surgeons that go around trailed by armies of fellows. Despite the instruments and clocks everywhere, you still need a backup and unlike a phone you don't have to pull a watch out of your pocket to check the time. If you used your phone in a patient room you'd have to decontaminate it when you leave. I checked on Apple's support site and it turns out that even if you do have to touch the watch, you can disinfect it with a standard alcohol disinfecting wipe. Apple has also announced a gesture suit that will enable you to control the watch without touching it. This is intended as an assistive technology but also would have applications in health care.
If I were developing some kind of wearable app for healthcare, I'd definitely target the Apple Watch, even though I really dislike the idea of a vertically integrated company that completely controls the hardware, software, and app store, and have had bad experiences with Apple as a VAR and developer. If you targeted anything else, you'd have to convince users to take their Apple Watches off their wrists, or to wear *two* devices.
Health care app will gain traction (Score:2)
I totally understand why the Health app has had trouble gaining traction, as I have not used it much in the past...
Even though I've worn an Apple Watch for years, the thing is there just wasn't that much to look at in Health.
But as the Apple Watch gains more sensors, and the Health app improves, I do think people will be using it more often. I myself use the Health app now that walks/hikes/runs recorded actually show GPS tracking for where I was. But also occasionally just to look over the heart monitorin
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I've known several hypochondriacs who would probably jump on this bandwagon in an instant. They'll then go running back to their poor GP declaring, "See? Now I have **PROOF** that I've got (kuru/African sleeping sickness/other obscure illness)!"
Much as I hate to say it, Google and Amazon are probably the best placed to actually make a permanent impact on healthcare with their data-spelunking abilities and massive collections of every bit of trivia ever generated.
Healthcare/Life Sciences/Biology is HARD (Score:5, Interesting)
(Disclaimer: I have discussed this on Slashdot before as well, so some of this is repetitive from my own comment history).
I have spent my whole career in healthcare and the life sciences, but in a technical capacity. My background is in AI/Machine Learning/big data/etc., and I have worked in diagnostics, devices, drug development.
It has been really interesting and cool. The field is ripe with opportunities, and fascinating intellectual challenges.
But guess what, it is also very very complex, for a gajillion reasons. First of all, biology is hard. And people who are experts in this area are routinely surprised and wrong. Then the actual system of delivering healthcare has a lot of issues. Then you have regulatory things to consider, and laws like HIPAA.
Despite what people think, very few people are out there to screw others over. Sure people like to make money like in any industry, and there are bad actors (FU Martin Shkreli), but they are a very small fraction of all the people who work here. There are underlying reasons and systemic trends which have led us to where we are, and no one would have designed things this way from scratch, but also does not mean that it was all put together this way to screw over people. One common phrase I have heard from people throughout my career is that we are all patients; those who work in this area also get sick, suffer from diseases and need care throughout their lives.
It has been funny and amusing though how people not in this area do not get it. Especially those coming from a tech background who have disrupted other areas and now are going to disrupt this field. They think they are smart and can solve all the problems.
https://xkcd.com/1831/ [xkcd.com] [xkcd.com]
Things just do not translate. Take my field of ML/AI. Algorithms, models in other domains do not need the same level of rigor. Train, and test and repeat. Deploy a model to show ads. It kinda works, that is OK. Do not have to submit to the FDA. Do not have to be careful with small amounts of data (you know how rare it is to get patient level data, especially from bio-specimens like blood, tissue, etc, and then have longitudinal follow up with it).
People may have initial POC wins, Googles recent work with breast cancer as an example. But scaling it, working with real world issues, variability, etc, things just fall apart.
Googles Verily venture has been around for a long time, and nothing real has come out of it.
IBM Watsons failure in healthcare is well known and documented.
Haven (joint Amazon, Chase, Berkshire Hathaway venture) has failed.
I have seen it from the other end. Doctors, biologists who do not get tech think oh Google and Facebook are so big and smart, so if they work in this area, they will succeed. Big tech thinks oh we have done well in other fields, we can win this one too.
As someone who straddles both, I shake my head so many times. I constantly have recruiters reaching out. 90% of the time, I pass on any opportunity. The people involved just do not get it. I used to have FOMO, but after years, when I follow back up on things I declined, I usually was right. Only thing I have some regrets about is Flatiron, but lets see if Roche can really make that work. And even there, it was the right decision for me, their ML/AI stuff is pretty weak, their value was just in their datasets. And I think it was overinflated value, but that is a different post.
Anyway, the TLDR version is that Big Tech and people who are successful in other domains have a lot of hubris that we kicked butt here, we can do so there. And pretty much every time they fail in healthcare. And vice a versa, people in healthcare who do not get tech also fail when they try to do tech stuff. There is a small subgroup of capable folks who manage to succeed in the middle.
As has been commented in previous Slashdot stories:
Biology is not rocket science, it is harder.
Good rule of thumb:
1. It is more complicated than
Re: Healthcare/Life Sciences/Biology is HARD (Score:2)
Ah, company supplied healtcare. (Score:1)
What a great way to turn your workers into serfs.
Not a chance this is Apple's great legacy (Score:1)
Apple's great legacy, which everyone will always remember whenever their tragic name is uttered, is that they (to some degree, which shouldn't be understated) played a big role in the personal computer revolution, and then a few decades later they played a big role in the personal computer reactionary counter-revolution.
In the 1960s you bought IBM's computer and you were locked into using, paying, and obeying them. Then in the 1970s Apple was one of the companies that got us out of that. Then in the 2000s A
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Apple's great legacy will be their history of being one of the greatest marketing machines ever.
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Since we're rewriting history don't forget Commodore [medium.com], or Atari [fastcompany.com]. Apple was number three in the trinity. [cybernews.com]
So Tim Cook and Apple want all (Score:2)
Sources (Score:2)
Does anyone know if this information is sourced from people familiar with Apple's healthcare system? The summary didn't make that clear.
Alarm: "sleep is now in health" (Score:2)
I guess this explains why the other day I opened the clock app on an iPhone, went to the alarm, and was prompted with "sleep is now in health." The phone *required* me to go to the health app, create some sort of biometric profile including sleep goals and a preferred bedtime, before going back to the alarm where it tried to argue with me that because I was getting up early I needed to also change my bedtime or it wasn't going to let me set the alarm. Without doing all of that I couldn't set any kind of ala