iFixit Says Teardown of AirPods Max Made Competitors Look Like Toys 99
After looking at the innards of Apple's new over-the-ear headphones, the AirPods Max, tech site iFixit concluded that the intricate engineering made the lofty $550 price seem almost reasonable. iFixit cracked open the headphones and in summation said, that after looking at competitors, "internally, the AirPods Max's obsessive craftsmanship makes those other extremely capable devices look like toys by comparison."
They are ALL toys (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: They are ALL toys (Score:2)
Toys serve more of a purpose though. ;)
Maybe you mean AAA games.
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Ifixit (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardow... [ifixit.com]
Re:Ifixit (Score:5, Insightful)
Thanks. Reading a Slashdot post about a CNET story about iFixit article feels ridiculous.
Re: Ifixit (Score:2)
That's why I only read the comments.
*tips temple with finger* *makes I am very smart face*
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Re:Ifixit (Score:5, Insightful)
Perfection is not nothing more to add (Score:2, Interesting)
it's nothing left to take away.
Re: Perfection is not nothing more to add (Score:1)
That is a harmful zen mindset. Basically a suicidal mindset on a slow burner.
A different one, it to have *maximum* power. Leave no opportunity untouched.
But some people are too easily overwhelmed and can't handle it.
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"Nothing left to take away" is not harmful unless you understand it incorrectly.
The point is not to "remove everything", it's to take all the useless crap out and ending with a functional and beautiful product.
Unfortunately, the "useless crap" depends on who you're asking and that's why Apple is moving too fast and removing things people still use daily even years after they removed them (ex: headphone port, USB-A devices, etc).
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Yeah, I miss new Airport thingies. Why did you kill them off Tim?
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That's great for a minimalist. In the meantime I would prefer one magic device that does everything and does it perfectly. That would be perfection.
Re: Perfection is not nothing more to add (Score:2)
Adding capabilities always involves compromise. A Swiss Army knife will never cut better than a fine chef knife. Wisdom is in finding the perfect balance in finding focus, and removing just enough capability outside of that focus so as to maximize the functionality of what is left.
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Absolutely. Which is why I'm under no delusion that perfection will ever be achieved. But the goal is not always to remove capability. Just take the trends on headphones in general. They used to be incredibly simple and highly capable, with nothing that we could remove. Was it perfect? Hell no.
Then we added wireless and it was good. Did we have anything else to take away? No. Was it perfect? Hell no
Then we added noise cancelling. Nothing that could be taken away here to move to "perfection". But not perfect
That may be true, but I'll tell you what (Score:3, Insightful)
For the money, I can buy ten $55 less well engineered earphones and not worry about damaging them, and I'll probably get many more years of use time out of those ten devices than out of the one Apple wonderthing - assuming I'm so careless that I need to replace them so often in the first place.
Having said that, of course it's not the same fashion statement - if that's your thing.
Re: That may be true, but I'll tell you what (Score:3)
Certainly not the thing of any person I would ever have kids with. Or give any money or support.
I prefer humans to plastic mannequins.
Also, you can bet AirPods will be stolen like crazy. Because there is always a moron to sell it to for half the price. Taking it from the morons and giving it to the morons. Basically a Robin Hood of Moron forest.
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And to those people, I say "Don't be morans!"
Re:That may be true, but I'll tell you what (Score:5, Insightful)
Lower cost doesn't mean "less well engineered", in fact quite the opposite. Good engineering takes price into consideration, and the absurdly expensive price is more an indicator of poor engineering than anything.
Any engineer can design a product on an unlimited budget, only with Apple products is this considered a virtue.
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I'm sure you follow your principles in life, down to eating only expensive gourmet food, living in a mansion, and flying everywhere.
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The Airpods Max are actually not very well engineered. The sounds is decent, obviously somewhat subjective but the noise cancellation and ambient mode are not as effective as rival products from Sony and Bose.
The biggest flaw is that they get condensation in normal use. Owners are reporting that wearing them for extended periods of time in an office can result in sweat condensing inside the cups. Apple tend to reject returns that look like they have moisture damage.
Rival's solved that problem long ago with
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Scanning a few reviews of the AirPods Max, I'm not seeing any consistent claim that the audio quality or noise cancellation is "not as effective" as that of the competing Bose/Sony products. The common consensus seems to be that the audio and noise cancellation quality is on par, or slightly better. Anecdotally, I find both to be slightly better than on my pair of Bose NC700s. The experience of using the Bose app to pair with my iPhone was absolute garbage, so the AirPods are a clear winner in my (subjec
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Unfortunately most reviews are terrible, mainly because the reviewer tests them out for half an hour and then writes it. The reason I linked to MKBHD is because he tests stuff out for a decent length of time and in realistic situations, like on an actual aircraft. Of course at the moment that's not easy...
Basically the Airpods Max are very good, just not quite top tier in any area. Not the most comfortable, not the absolute best noise cancelling or ambient mode or controls, not the the greatest sound qualit
Less worried about damage from what? (Score:1)
For the money, I can buy ten $55 less well engineered earphones and not worry about damaging them
They are solid aluminum, what is going to damage them...
You are perfectly welcome to buy cheaper things that don't work as well, and will not last as long. I don't mind paying more for things that are better constructed and will last longer.
For something like over the ear headphones things like super easily removed cushions are a big draw, because it means I would actually replace them if they were no longer co
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I went through a couple of, well, $25 bluetooth headphones. Sound quality on the train was what you'd expect; acceptable (I'm no audiophile) but they were made from cheap plastic designed to damage easily - replacing them after 2 months because I'd dropped them on the floor or stepped on them!
Something $55 or up isn't necessarily garbage if it's made from durable, malleable materials. But if you want the whole noise cancelling biz, you'll be paying more for 'decent' sound.
Anyway, nice to see Apple offering
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Some people like buying expensive things like Burberry or Rolls Royce. What is your point? Who cares what someone else does with their money.
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Some people like Burberry, others like raspberry.
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Implying there's not audio difference between $55 headhpones and Apples? Or maybe you just don't care. That could be and that's alright, not everyone is a fan of good sound. I stopped buying crappy sounding $55 headphones many years ago. I like music too much for that. By all accounts the Apple headphones sound good from what I've read.
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At over half a grand, they'd better sounds real fucking good.
Re:That may be true, but I'll tell you what (Score:5, Informative)
At over half a grand, they'd better sounds real fucking good.
They do. I got a pair from my wife for Christmas, and they sound amazing - I think they're a nice step up from my former Bose NC700. Not as good as my Sennheiser HD800 [trustedreviews.com], but those cost a lot more and is a completely separate category of headphones.
The good part: Music sounds really good. I've got a standard play list I use for comparing sound [spotify.com] (originally, this is from a CD I brought around when evaluating loudspeakers for purchase some years ago). Noise cancellation is good so far, but I've not had a chance to try the hardest things yet: Public transportation in general, air travel in particular. It's really easy to use it on a large set of Apple devices. This was my biggest issue with the Bose - even though it supports two devices, it often got stuck on one.
The amazing part is surround sound. It needs to be heard to be believed. Also, the effect where the direction of the sound changes when you turn your head is amazing. Absolutely useless, but an interesting thing to experience a couple of times before you realize "why?".
The bad part: The surround sound doesn't work on AppleTV - if you've got one, surely you'd rather watch content there than on tiny iPhone/iPad screens. The case doesn't protect large parts of the headphones, and at that price it really should include a cable. Also, while lightning was the best alternative when it was released it should be obsoleted now - the headphones should have used USB C.
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MKBHD did a good review of the Airpods Pro, comparing them to a number of other headphones. He used to travel a fair bit before the pandemic so has lots of experience with noise cancellation too.
https://youtu.be/cG8PXdTlDag [youtu.be]
They are okay, the bag is really bad, but not really worth the price premium as you can get something better for less. That is unless you are really hardcore into the Apple ecosystem in which case they might make sense. If you prefer Android though they are, predictably, terrible.
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You linked to his AirPods Pro review. Here's his review of the Max: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I mean at half a grand they'd be decisively midrange in terms of headphones. These headphones aren't just for listening to music. Their feature list is a tad larger than that. There are many more expensive headphones that can't even make a phone call, or wirelessly do anything, or noise cancel, or actually do anything other than play music.
High end products cost money. If you want a cheap toy Apple offer that too: https://www.beatsbydre.com/ [beatsbydre.com]
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Most fucked up part here is, many of these are actually superior to advertised apple product, because they support various apt-x implementations down to apt-x HD and apt-x LL.
While apple products are still stuck on AAC, which means that product is unusable for anything that requires audio to sync due to latency. I.e. video, gaming, and so on.
It genuinely sucks that to this day, wireless audio is still so awful when it comes to latency. Even with qualcomm's latest and greatest codec, it's still bad. But when
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I buy Coby earphones from Dollar Tree for the same reason. I can wear them comfortably when I put my Playstation headphones over them. So I can watch TV and year the game I'm playing at the same time. I have to use a new pair every 4-5 months but so what. $3 a year is worth it.
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Must be hard on your ears to wear them for a whole year.
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I can buy 10 less well engineered cars yada yada Mercedes blah.
Just because I don't see value in the Mercedes doesn't mean others don't. Just because you don't see the value in the Apple wonder thing it doesn't follow that others don't.
If you write it off as a "fashion statement," well that says more about you than anything. Since we're generalizing though, you clearly hate the environment if you're buying 10 pairs of headphones.
I don't own a pair, bit too rich for my blood. I do know some people who do tho
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Wait, these are actual over-the-head headphones, not some tiny easy-to-lose sealed things, and it actually has a repairability score higher than 2/10? From Apple? Completely amazing!
Oh, and they still insist on using the Lightning port, years after USB-C became a thing? Figures. I've got plenty of decent wired headphones (mostly ones that needed new foam, so I got them cheap), and I'd rather listen to music on home theater speakers (with big sub-woofer box) anyhow. 1/8" plug? I've got stuff that uses 1/4"
So who paid them? (Score:1)
Because I do not see any less deliberate planned obsolcence, zero repairability, and a box of utterly idiotic basic premises inside which they even make sense.
In my book, that'd get everyone involved 3 years in prison and 20 years od not working in the same field or industry.
Comment removed (Score:3)
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Throwing money at build quality (Score:4, Interesting)
Thats what happens when you throw $200 at improving the build quality at headphones that match the sound quality of existing $200 headphones.
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Do you really think you are getting $200 extra build quality, or did they just jack the price up as high as they think they can get away with?
It's a classic Apple move. The market for high end noise cancelling headphones is well established and price pressure has kept things from getting too silly. Then Apple comes along and because it's Apple they doubled the price and relied on gushing reviews and hype to justify it, even though a better pair or Sony or Bose cans can be had for much less.
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It's probably at least $50 extra build quality, probably some extra profit in there too. I don't know what the margins are on headphones. Most of them are just injected molded plastic with speakers in them; this seems to be slightly ahead of those.
The Great Mighty Poo will be happy about it (Score:2)
He is pretty musical after all.
They're mass produced, there is no craftsmanship (Score:2)
What they are is WELL DESIGNED. They're not made from artisanal plastic, wire and silicon.
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Nonsense. The plastic is refined from oil derived exclusively from vegan dinosaurs, the wire is hand-rolled on the thighs of virgins, the silicon refined from Himalayan stone exported from Nepal by donkey, and the aluminium case polished with live minks (certified COVID-free and also vegan, just for good measure). Even the lithium in the batteries is recycled from the urine of depressive celebrities...thanks to this attention to detail you can now have Kurt Cobain, Paula Abdul and Sinead O’Connor lite
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the wire is hand-rolled on the thighs of virgins
Is that why they need the Chinese child labor?
Re:They're mass produced, there is no craftsmanshi (Score:4, Funny)
No, thanks to the one child policy and cultural preference for male children, middle aged male virgins are almost as plentiful in China as on Slashdot.
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Best burn of the year on slashdot. Well done sir!
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I heard the next iteration is going to take it further and use plastic derived from not just vegan dinosaurs, but free-range vegan dinosaurs. There has been some muted criticism that some of the current vegan dinosaurs were in fact raised in restricted pens.
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They are not even well designed. They have no turn off button. So the only way to turn them off is to put them inside this ridiculous case.
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Good engineering includes being cost effective.
Cost is objective, value is subjective. Good engineering isn't about costs, it's about value.
I can remember reading about an attempt to engineer a Segway clone. The people featured in the article were able to make something that functioned very much like a Segway for a fraction of the cost. They also admitted it lacked a lot of the visual appeal, user friendliness, and safety features of the real deal Segway. There were certainly many other attempts to make lower cost Segway clones, how much value was l
For perspective (Score:3, Informative)
It still looks like the batteries are still glued and/or soldered in (there seem to be multiple, differently-sized batteries?) If it can't be replaced without specialized tools and skills, that's non-user-replaceable.
They're still in the planned obsolescence game, just not as extremely as usual. For perspective, they've taken a product that's been standardized and working fine for half a century, and found a way to make it expire within a few years.
The connector is easy to access, but the 4.1 Wh cell rests on a tenacious adhesive pad. We used a little isopropyl alcohol to free it.
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The battery is a gluey mess and the disassembly path is slightly wonky
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The 2.39 Wh battery lives next to the driver on the backside. Long wires connect to a control board—but the connection is soldered.
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The battery is easily accessible, but gluey—and its connection to the circuit board in the left ear cup is soldered.
As for the price, maybe $500 is simply excessive instead of outrageous. But if people were already used to paying $500 for headphones, you can bet they'd price them at $800. Maybe they'll introduce a model "in collaboration with Dr. Dre" at that price point in the future.
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Re:For perspective (Score:4, Informative)
Re: Glued and/or Soldered Batteries (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know if the battery in my iPhone is easily replaceable or not. (I suspect not). But over the years that I've been using iPhones, they seem to be good enough that I've never needed to replace one. Even when I kept the same phone across multiple generations of available upgrades that I chose to decline.
So battery-wise, I have no complaints with whatever they're doing. YMMV.
Re:For perspective (Score:4, Insightful)
That was the teardown of the Sony and Bose earphones, not the Apple.
Not only did they tear down the Apple, they also tore down the competition in the same article. Confusing I know.
I wouldn't pay the $550 for these, but that's because I'm happy with my IEMs. That doesn't mean they're badly Engineered.
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But if people were already used to paying $500 for headphones
Depends on how they sound. $500 is mid tier for headphones. Mind you I wouldn't spend that much for a disposable pair. If I were going to spend $500 (or double that) I'd expect a cable and a set of headphones that will still be working in 10-15 years.
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Clearly wrong: AMS, the comprehensive pro-grade audio equipment and instrument retailer which stocks plenty of overpriced gear, only has 5 headphones out of 195 [americanmusical.com] above the $350-600 tier, accross all categories. Those headphones' main selling point is that they're constructed of "rare Japanese hardwood"... which was no doubt conditioned with rare snake oil.
Seems your ship has veered deep into the Reality Distortion Field. Good luck on finding your way back to planet Earth, Major Tom.
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Clearly wrong: AMS, the comprehensive pro-grade audio equipment and instrument retailer which stocks plenty of overpriced gear, only has 5 headphones out of 195 above the $350-600 tier, accross all categories.
Good noise cancelling headphones aren't cheap. I have a nice pair of Sony ones in that price bracket, from the before times when both me and my SO were regularly flying for work. The money is for good build quality, comfort and noise cancelling performance. For that use case, definitely worth the mone
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Err LOL. Maybe you should look at what's on the market rather than just read a product catalogue from a "comprehensive" shop.
Also "pro-grade" and "high end" are not the same thing, never have been and are designed for very different purposes with different design goals as well. Studio equipment and high end audio equipment is different enough that the latter is often used in studio in addition to existing "pro-grade" gear as a final check.
My high end headphones have no wood in them. You are reading a very
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Market research? I've presented a lot more than you have, which is 0.
Nitpicking over marketing labels is pointless, but I will point out that "high-end" along with "audiophile" are widely used to peddle snake-oil and magical thinking across the audio gear market. It's endemic to the industry, but doesn't have nearly the prevalence you suggest. It's purely the realm of the rich and gullible, which is not that big of a market in the scheme of things. The label "professional" is less useful there, beca
Toys that sound better and perform better (Score:3)
more shit that does nothing (Score:3)
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Tried them in the Apple shop (Score:2)
My bose is ok for phone calls though picks up a lot of other noise.
I tried the Apple headset in the store and indeed, it is very good. The noise cancelling is indeed better, and the sound quality is excellent, also noticeably better than the bose. On the level of some m
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In addition, specifically for the Apple headset the excellent noise cancelling was also immediately obvious.
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Needs $550 in tools to disassemble (Score:3)
Judging from the opening page, you need more tools than a mechanic!
News for nerds (Score:1)
that's not a "headphones unit" (Score:2)
that's a portable computer *with* headphones
it has an fpga
why the fuck does it have an fpga
battery charging monitor? of course. CPU? you can decode everything with ICs now and they're more efficient at it, too, but still, okay. DA/AD converters? of course. Amplifier? well... duh?
but fpga?
i am *genuinely surprised* they did not squeeze in an e-ink display somewhere in there: their relatively low black/white contrast would match nicely with the color scheme of the rest of the unit.
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why the fuck does it have an fpga
Well, I'm glad you asked.
I was going to ask the same thing. Really baffling!
CPU? you can decode everything with ICs now and they're more efficient at it, too, but still, okay
They probably have a decoder chip according to the teardown. You need a CPU to run bluetooth, lightning and probably to feed data to the decoder chip.
BUT WHY THE FPGA???
How to calculate Value For Money (Score:2)
It is a very simple equation...
VFM = Functionality/Price.
Decide what you need and see whether a device is worth buying at all. Once you have listed the devices that meet those criteria, the cheapest is best value. Ones that do not meet the criteria, do not get on the list. What sort of criteria could include things like...
Adequate audio
Decent microphone
Will not fall out of my ear
Robust, waterproof etc
Over 4 hours on device and another 12 hours from being recharged by case
Could be easily reset and conne
Procreation (Score:2)
All that matters is how they sound (Score:2)
Expensive tech (Score:2)
Over the course of my life, I've occasionally bought very expensive technology.
Invariably, there is always some fatal flaw ( battery isn't replaceable, some software function doesn't work properly, company stops supporting it, etc) that turns them into very pretty paperweights.
They go into a drawer, and every so often when cleaning you rediscover them and think "wow, those sure look nice and well made, I wish they worked still".
And back into the drawer they go.
iFixig going back to the mothership (Score:2)
Finally claimed ifixit upon recognizing them as one of their own due to the prefixed "i" in the name.
I'll stick to my $600 Beyerdynamic headphones for the next 30-40 years. They just have 2 simple drivers, 3 pieces of wire, 4 screws and nothing soldered. In the 3 years since I got them I already replaced circa half of what's inside, things I'd previously broken through my own mishandling, with drops, spills, pet accidents, etc; all with official parts and all practically fool-proof, through self-service. Th