Apple's Longtime Supplier Accused of Using Forced Labor in China (washingtonpost.com) 157
One of the oldest and most well-known iPhone suppliers has been accused of using forced Muslim labor in its factories, according to documents uncovered by a human rights group, adding new scrutiny to Apple's human rights record in China. From a report: The documents, discovered by the Tech Transparency Project and shared exclusively with The Washington Post, detail how thousands of Uighur workers from the predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang were sent to work for Lens Technology. Lens also supplies Amazon and Tesla, according to its annual report. Lens Technology is one of at least five companies connected to Apple's supply chain that have now been linked to alleged forced labor from the Xinjiang region, according to human rights groups. Lens Technology stands out from other Apple component suppliers because of its high-profile founder and long, well-documented history going back to the early days of the iPhone.
How are they monitoring the factories? (Score:2)
Don't they have, you know, cameras monitoring the manufacturing floor? Seems like a simple way to actually monitor the supply chain.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How are they monitoring the factories? (Score:4, Informative)
The article doesn't even give any evidence that the supplier was using forced labor. It just says it's accused, and then offers no evidence, except for some 3rd party hearsay about general circumstances about Xinjiang.
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We have gotten way with more for with less. Just ask Huawei and Tik-Tok.
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Don't they have, you know, cameras monitoring the manufacturing floor? Seems like a simple way to actually monitor the supply chain.
How could you tell from a camera at the manufacturing floor if they were forced labor or not?
Re:How are they monitoring the factories? (Score:5, Insightful)
A camera would tell you nothing.
These are not people chained to their desks. They are (allegedly) people sent to work in a factory instead of being incarcerated in one of the Xinjiang internment camps. Within the factory, they are going to look like a normal worker doing their job.
TFA has no actual evidence that this is happening, other than allegations by activists. But even if the workers are asked, they will likely deny it since the alternative is to be sent back to Xinjiang to be incarcerated, or retaliation against their families.
There is also a danger that a supply chain crackdown could lead to discrimination against Uyghurs. An obvious way to avoid allegations that they are coerced is to not hire them at all. Uyghurs are already discriminated against and poorer than Han Chinese, and they need jobs.
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Mod parent up.
Slaves need jobs? (Score:2, Informative)
From the Verge: "Lens Technology was sent thousands of workers from Xinjiang to work in its factories in the Hunan province as part of a “poverty alleviation” program carried out by the Xinjiang–Suzhou Chamber of Commerce.". . . "Many of these workers previously lived in indoctrination camps"
If you believe that this was part of a legitimate anti poverty campaign I would invite you to explore the behavior and history of the Chinese communist party.
Hundreds of millions of people have been ab
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So Apple itself is saying that what you are proposing as acceptable, is not, in fact, acceptable to Apple.
I did not "propose" anything, nor did I say anything was "acceptable".
As for the idea you can never know what goes on inside factory, I beg to differ.
I have no idea what you "differ" from. I never said we can't know what goes on in a factory.
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Re:How are they monitoring the factories? (Score:4, Interesting)
They don't monitor - it's a contractor.
Apple has promised to verify their entire supply chain, including contractors.
Contractors win by the lowest price or they don't get the bid.
Contracts often go to a higher bidder who offers better quality or faster fulfillment.
The company makes glass for cellphone screens. It is unlikely that Apple prioritized saving a few cents over the quality of the screen for a $1000+ product.
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A common tactic a company uses when it has the scale that Apple does is to insource manufacturing. Once you have something like iPhone scale, then you pretty much lose the efficiency gain of being but one device in a sea of devices for a contract manufacturer.
So why not insource if it is a path to potentially save cost? Well, situations like this are nicer. You get to be oblivious to what your manufacturer does, in spite of a very public stance against bad labor practices. When your vendor gets caught, you
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I'm guessing you were in a hurry to FP? If not, what's your excuse?
Or can you explain how you can look at camera images and reliably detect the differences among prison labor, wage slavery, debt slavery, indentured servitude, or happy campers who are voluntarily doing the same task over and over again. Yeah, it's been a long time since I actually worked in a factory, but I really don't see how your idea is supposed to work. Even with sound, my working time looked pretty tedious. You'd get a more favorable i
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Business Ethics unfortunately isn't a cut and dry topic. International Business relations too is a very complex topic.
It is extremely easy for a business even one with good intentions to cross the line into unethical and possibly illegal territory.
People want to buy Apple Devices, Apple wants to sell them, and make a profit.
Apple has competitors many based in different countries, with a different set of morals, and laws.
So if Apple were to stand up to Western standards while their competitors do not. That m
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Business Ethics unfortunately isn't a cut and dry topic. International Business relations too is a very complex topic.
Using forced labor is very much a cut and dried topic. There is absolutely no moral/ethical ambiguity about it. Not for any nation that claims to be civilized.
So if Apple were to stand up to Western standards while their competitors do not. That means their competitor will have the advantage.
No, it doesn't necessarily mean that, particularly with a company like Apple. Apple makes fine products, but it is also all about image and brand. Standing up for western standards enhances their brand. Appearing indifferent to forced labor hurts their brand.
The Truth is most consumers really don't care how their device is made, and who needed to die or were enslaved to make it.
Where are you getting these ideas? The "capital T" Truth is exactly the opposite. 60% [supplychainbrain.com]
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Apple likely doesn't have access to footage like that.
Re:How are they monitoring the factories? (Score:5, Informative)
The factory is not in Xinjiang.
The factory is in Suzhou, which is in Zhejiang Province on the western edge of the greater metropolitan area of Shanghai.
The allegation, backed up by no evidence, is that workers were transported against their will from Xinjiang to Suzhou.
There are several reasons to doubt that the allegations are true:
1. The people making the accusations get a big benefit from portraying themselves as victims of Apple, and journalists get plenty of clicks from a story that is "too good to check."
2. The company making the screens has little to gain and much to lose by using coerced labor. So why would they?
3. Suzhou is a prosperous city in a prosperous region. Urumqi is a dusty impoverished place with blistering hot summers, frigid winters, and little opportunity for a better life. Many people there would leap at the chance to get a job and work permit to go to Suzhou. You would have a line of applicants a gong-li long. So why would "force" be needed?
1. wrong 2. wrong 3. wrong (Score:2)
1. after Mike Daisy no journalist wants to publish a false forced labor in china story, they will lose trust with readers.
2. the benefit of using coerced labor is that Xi Jinping told you to do it, so if you say no, your family is going to wind up in the concentration camp too.
3. Urumqi was also a dusty impoverished place for the last 40 years since Deng XIaoping's reforms in the 80s... and all through that time, the people who wanted to leave in that time to go work in a factory did so of their own free w
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you simply try to add doubt without ANY evidence
You are asking me to prove a negative by providing evidence of absence.
It doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on the journalist who is making the affirmative assertion.
The Washington Post should not have run the story until they had some evidence. This story is basically "We have an anonymous source who heard a rumor."
Ubiquitous Corruption (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ubiquitous Corruption (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't even go unreported [youtu.be]. Thank goodness for a free press, I guess.
Slavery is legal in the "land of the free" (Score:2)
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How about hold the company liable? Say Apple make sure your suppliers are not using forced labor or face fines / sanctions.
They could easily hire 2 people to review those places as their only job and report back to apple. This way it would protect apple from those fines / sanctions.
Instead they want to say "hey we asked and they said they were being good, it's not our fault."
When they are not held responsible they will never force their suppliers to correct their actions.
Re: Ubiquitous Corruption (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't you know?
In America, you always have the Freedom(TM), to not work for Rockefellerians, and always have the choice to starve and die on the street.
They're gonna keep the vast majority of the wealth your work creates, so you have to keep working to have a decent life, and they don't, because they have you. ... like we are ... you wouldn't have to live in a trailer and take a dick to the mouth!
But don't criticize those dear Job Creators(TM). They give *you* work. (And you give them money? Wat?)
It's all your own fault, little Annie! If you weren't mooching on the backs of others
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Mod parent up, though the tone is a bit much.
Re: Ubiquitous Corruption (Score:2)
You must be new to ... me. :D
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inmate labor at $0.15/hr or you can go to the hole.
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Don't be stupid. "The hole" doesn't have room in any given American prison for more than a tiny percentage of the inmate population. It's a major problem when it comes to disciplining inmates. They definitely don't have room in "the hole" when it's already full of people who are fighting and raising hell that they're having problems situating in gen pop without getting one of their less-problematic inmates beaten, robbed, and/or killed.
Many prisons (especially state prisons) have too little work to go ar
Whatabouterty (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple/Foxconn worker and environmental exploitation rationalization worksheet
Check all that apply
[_] Apple wasn't the first-ever client of Foxconn
[_] Making iPhones in a Chinese factory is better than being a Chinese peasant
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much if I had to pay my fellow citizens to make them
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much given environmental regulations I vehemently insist on for myself
[_] All the other manufacturers are doing it too
[_] Some/Many/Most Chinese workers appreciate 70 hour weeks and breathing my aluminum dust
[_] It's not Apple, it's Foxconn
[_] It's not Apple, it's the Chinese government
[_] They should quit if they don't like it
[_] It's just capitalism at work
[_] It's just communism at work
[_] Apple's disposable workers are paid better than non-Apple disposable workers
[_] Apple's auditors didn't find any serious issues
[_] Some day the Chinese will be too wealthy to exploit
[_] Your Android is Foxconn too
[_] You're an Apple hater using Apple as a scapegoat
[_] I also work 60/80/100/120 hour weeks at my IT job
[_] Apple designers are in the US
[_] The US did the same thing to the British
[_] The US had slaves once too
[x] The US has prison labor today
[_] It's up to the Chinese to stand up to their oppressive government
[_] There are lines of eager workers outside Foxconn factories
[_] If any company were to stop the exploitation, I really think it'll be Apple
[_] Your free Linux runs on Chinese hardware too
[_] Foxconn workers think they have it great, so it's ok!
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than Chicago's murder rate
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than China's suicide rate
[_] We can't pollute the whole world!
[_] Half of all US households have an Apple product
[_] If we don't exploit them they'll never develop
[_] The suicide's families get the insurance money
[_] You're posting from a macbook/iphone/ipad right now
[_] There are suicide nets on American bridges
[_] Interns in the US don't get paid
[_] They don't beat the workers, apparently.
[_] Why is this news? We expect this from China.
[_] It's their country; we have no right to judge.
[_] If it's voluntary it's ok; their body, their choice
[_] Only 11 hours/day? Come over to the U.S. and do 12-hour days!
[_] Things are tough all over; I had a job in high school
[_] isn't this the case for all smart phones, of all brands?
[_] an iPhone is more important (than workers rights)
[_] Android phone assemblers were abused worse
[_] That's how it was in the 19th century
[_] I'm tired of the Apple Shaming Society
[_] We should automate all jobs
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Mod parent funny and insightful, but when did you prepare that LONG joke?
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but when did you prepare that LONG joke?
Been around here a while now. Every time another story about China and Apple come up regaling folk with horror stories of awful labor conditions and outrageous environmental damage incurred while make iStuff I collect whatever new rationalizations appear. That list is probably older than some of the people that contributed to it today. :)
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Hmm... In that case I have to ask to be modded "ignorant" (again) and by reference to the defeatist spam-fighting "We surrender" joke of similar options, I have to change my recommended moderation to "redundant". Still mostly valid options, however.
However you did give me a weird idea. How could we get valid "job satisfaction" scores for Chinese and American workers. Various other countries, too. Kind of a Utilitarian approach? A bit of a linguistic problem, since "satisfaction" is such a nebulous concept,
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Excellent rationalization. Two fresh contributions in one sentence:
[x] At least China isn't bombing the Uighurs like the US did
[x] It's not slavery. It's reform!
Thanks!
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War is not murder, and the war in Afghanistan was never about killing people for their beliefs.
Brainwashing an ethnic group to eradicate their culture and religious beliefs is not, "reform", it is a crime against humanity.
Seriously, where did you come up with that schlock?
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You're comparing punishment for an individual's crime to the enslavement and genocide of an entire ethnic group. What the hell is wrong with you?
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First of all, I wonder how much "forced labor" is occurring in the U.S.A. that goes unreported?
You mean, like prison labor? No first hand experience but from what I've heard the prisoners do everything from sweeping the floors to making the food for something like $0.13 per hour.
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Also, don't forget that you don't end up in prison because you're religious. You have to commit and be convicted of a rather serious crime. In other words, you're comparing the consequence of an act someone chose to carry out, knowing full well wha
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Most of the truly forced labor in the United States is sex work.
Others Companies Too (Score:5, Insightful)
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But headlines always call out Apple alone, as it's the name that drives clicks.
They're the biggest hypocrits this side of the Vatican.
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So far, what I've heard is that they make their suppliers and manufacturers sign documents which claim that they don't use forced labor but I haven't heard them taking any steps to actually verify that those companies don't use forced labor.
If you say you haven’t heard anything, I’d suggest you’ve been burying your head in the sand. The information gets repeated in comments here and in linked articles nearly every time this sort of issue comes up.
For instance, today’s linked article mentions Apple conducting internal audits at well over 1000 factories across nearly 50 countries last year alone, including surprise inspections. The article also mentions that Apple routinely publishes reports on those audits and the progre
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Moreover, it’s an accusation of forced labor within the supplier’s factories, but not specifically within the factories that are part of Apple’s—or any other named company’s—supply chain.
Apple and these other companies have neither the right nor ability to audit every factory at every supplier they hire, so it’s unrealistic to expect that level of accountability. After all, these suppliers make parts for competing or wholly unrelated companies, so they won’t/c
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It's true. That said, there have been concerns raised about Lens Technology before [actiondecareme.ch], so IMO Apple has a responsibility to dig a lot deeper to determine whether these allegations have any merit.
Ten years ago, the response to an accusation like this would have been "We take every accusation seriously, and will investigate this and take action if we determine that our code of conduct was violated." And then two or three weeks later, you'd have your answer.
Unfortunately, Apple has already denied the allegatio
Proud tradition. (Score:2)
Re: Proud tradition. (Score:2)
And then they go and bitch if the Chinese take the inventions they told them to make, copy it, and have their own products, with blackjack and hookers!
I'd do that too, if somebody treated me like that.
There's a reason it's called imagimary property and monopolies and artificial scarcity are crimes in literally every normal industry!
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Seriously? Would you do anything like this too?
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/0... [cnbc.com]
Honestly.
iPhone sales at all time high (Score:2)
Re: iPhone sales at all time high (Score:2)
All-time high? At merely a fraction of the total devices sold in the world?
Something doesn't add up.
Aren't they at 15-20 percent of the market, even in rich first world countries?
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DK (Score:2)
You'll work hard with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day...
Until we come up with alternate supply chains this kind of thing will continue.
Founder (Score:3)
Here's an article about Len TEchnology's founder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/0... [nytimes.com]
TL;DNR -she should know better.
Another factory, same story (Score:2)
https://www.washingtonpost.com... [washingtonpost.com]
No different than those cheap beedie smokes in 711 rolled by child slave labor: https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com]
Or McDonalds having their uniforms made prisons by workers who receive no benefits - including no social security - and if they complain they get thrown into solitary confinement. https://www.aljazeera.com/opin... [aljazeera.com]
This is nothing less than slave labor
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Oh please. That Aljazeera article is one of the most poorly-written hit pieces I've ever seen. Watching them brush aside Kilgore's column is especially comical.
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4100 corporations profiting off prison labor: https://worthrises.org/thepris... [worthrises.org]
https://corpaccountabilitylab.... [corpaccoun...itylab.org]
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/e... [pbs.org]
https://blog.globaltel.com/com... [globaltel.com]
http://blackeconomics.co.uk/wp... [blackeconomics.co.uk]
http://maltajusticeinitiative.... [maltajusti...iative.org]
It's called slavery. (Score:2)
Let's be really clear: if you don't have the option to quit then it's slavery. China has enslaved some of it's population and now companies are using slave labor.
Say it with me, S L A V E R Y.
No they are prison camps (Score:2)
probably concentrated prison camps...
Forced prison labor is legal in the USA and many other counties. So China's prisons force labor... are you saying that because one can argue that they are temporary slaves this is actual slavery? Keep in mind the USA only banned private slavery.
Also, are you implying that all forms of slavery are bad and should be stopped? What about the USA then? What makes 1 ok and the other so bad? Merely the "crime" that justifies it? or the label of "camp" or "school" etc for t
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Forced prison labor is legal in the USA and many other counties.
And it should be outlawed.
Also, are you implying that all forms of slavery are bad and should be stopped?
Yes.
Point is, [bunch of bullshit]
No, you are deflecting from my point that it's slavery and should be called such.
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Well a lot of countries use prison labor. For example, who made your license plate?
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Well a lot of countries use prison labor.
If it is optional then that is one thing but if it is mandatory then it should be outlawed.
How dare they use Chinese forced labour... (Score:2)
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Tim Cook isn't interested (Score:2)
Tim Cook isn't interested in this report unless you are wearing a leather jockstrap.
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Are you a former writer of GNAA copy?
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News to me, until now I didn't know Tim Cook belonged to GNAA.
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According to GNAA, they pwned Tim Cook some time ago.
Um... it's China (Score:5, Interesting)
Um. Yeah. News flash for anyone who hasn't been awake for the past 10 years. Of COURSE stuff made if China is often made with forced labor. Even if they totally-for-realsies-seriously-pinky-swear that it's otherwise. You. Simply. Don't. Believe. Them. Don't be shocked at it. Expect it.
If this is a particular hill that you're willing to fight and die on, as a consumer, you should make sure that everything you buy was made, assembled and/or grown in the US, Europe, Australia, Taiwan, Korea or Japan. There are a few other countries that probably make this list, but not too many. Regarding cell phones specifically, I think that there are a few cell phone models (Sony? Kyocera?) that aren't done in China. If you want an iPhone, yeah, some of it was made under forced labor or near-slave-labor conditions.
Except, oh wait
The world we live in isn't always nice. I'm not justifying it. Just pointing it out.
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Thou shalt not suffer a slaver to live. (Score:2)
If there is another evil so great, it would be to strip them for parts. The CCP is guilty of this too.
Re: Uighur "workers" (Score:2)
Yeah, it's a funny one.
You are told to hate muslims. But when you are told to hate China, suddenly, they are the poor poor victims.
I saw the reverse too. Iran was originally the "fortress against the soviets", receiving tons of military financing. Then, wuen they denocratically (!) elected religious nitjobs because they were still lesser of an evil tan the US puppet, Saddam became a "fortress against Iran", and "our ally in the region". Aaand you know what happened next. ^^ Suddely, when Saddam stopped bein
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What do you even mean by this comment? The article you linked indicates that TIP had some 3k fighters at its peak in 2013. It is estimated that China has placed over a million ethnic Uighurs in labor camps and other punitive labor assignments.
Do you mean to say that all of those Uighurs are members of TIP or similar?
Re:Uighur "workers" (Score:4, Informative)
tabloid war mongers
The Economist: How Xinjiang’s gulag tears families apart [economist.com]
Not satisfied? What source would you accept? I suspect none, because you've already made up your mind.
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I'll believe the "tabloid war mongers" over you. If China doesn't like "this shit on their doorstep" they can give the Uighurs their own autonomous zone, cut off aid, and if necessary wall if off and place military units to enforce the cordon. China won't do so since they want the land. They just don't want to deal with its people.
Re: Apple profiting off slave labor! (Score:2)
Cue
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I'm assuming that's Spanish for "Quelle surprise".
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Re: You wanted Socialism? (Score:2)
With capitalism they do actually pay you, with socialism they just pretend to pay you.
Re:You wanted Socialism? (Score:4, Insightful)
Slavery is very competitive where it cannot be automated. The cheapest means of production.
That in some places it's not called slavery, but "minimum wage", changes nothing. Still slavery. Every time when your salary is only enough to subsist, you are a slave laborer.
Re:You wanted Socialism? (Score:4, Insightful)
Holy carp, your ignorance of your own country's history is astounding. The South lost because its agricultural economy was unable to produce weapons and equipment like the industrialized North, the blockade kept them from buying and importing weapons and equipment, their transportation system was inadequate to start with and in shambles after Sherman's march, and the impressed poor southerners (rich plantation owners were exempt from impression) were deserting in droves.
There's your history lesson for the day.
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You asked very nicely for that assessment and I gave it for the benefit of others who might be reading your gibberish.
Best of luck, slave.
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The only one spewing gibberish is you.
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Oh, no. This is actually THE socialism.
slavery was profitable [Re:You wanted Socialism?] (Score:2)
Had slavery had been uneconomical because of competition, it would have died out by itself. It didn't. It took a war.
In fact, slavery made large profits. Slaveholders were rich. (But only profitable for industries that couldn't, at the time, automate: namely, agriculture.)
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First, the statement I was addressing was the inaccurate claim that slavery was not economical. Wrong. Slavery was very profitable. But saying "the Civil War wasn't about slavery!" doesn't address that at all.
Second... did you even glance at the article you linked with the words
1. Civil war wasn't about slavery. [livescience.com] ?
The article you linked was in fact debunking the myth that the Civil War wasn't about slavery.
Damn right the Civil war was about slavery. Lincoln, the candidate of the anti-slavery party [ushistory.org] won
Re:slavery was profitable (Score:2)
That aside, we agree in general and thank you for that.
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"better to voice an opinion than to shut up and think about it"
"no need to research things when I can just cast what feels right as fact"
"a sufficient accumulation of non-sequiturs in a confined area will reveal an important truth"
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Too many multiple syllabic words . . .
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The most ethical thing would be to move all operations back into their own country. They are hoarding plenty enough capital to build whatever manufacturing facilities don't exist in the US, and charge more than enough per unit to cover the labor costs.
Doing business in China, period, supports literal contemporary slavery. Even if a Uighur's hand never touches the iPhone. Not that citing Apple to verify how ethical Apple is was ever a serious proposition.
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PCB manufacturing is messy business. They could do it, but the locals might not like the consequences, and setting up the necessary supply chains for all the little bits that make up their phones would be onerous.
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Thoughtless skepticism isn't any better than blind faith in authority. What exact foreign competitor would spin this yarn?
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Why are you trying to make this a partisan issue? Politicians across the spectrum [theguardian.com] are calling out China for the human rights abuses in Xinjiang. During the campaign, at least, both Biden and Harris indicated that they would sanction companies found to be using forced Uighur labor.
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I'll believe it when I see it, but won't be holding my breath. There probably won't ever be more than a study committee that goes nowhere.