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Government IOS Apple

iOS 14's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt Sparks Antitrust Complaint In France (macrumors.com) 114

tsa shares a report from MacRumors: Starting early next year, iOS 14 will require apps to get opt-in permission from users to collect their random advertising identifier, which advertisers use to deliver personalized ads and track how effective their campaigns were. Ahead of this change, The Wall Street Journal reports that advertising companies and publishers have filed a complaint against Apple with France's competition authority, arguing that the enhanced privacy measures would be anticompetitive.

According to the report, the complaint alleges that the wording of Apple's permission prompt will lead most users to decline tracking of their device's advertising identifier, which could result in lost revenue. In August, Facebook warned advertisers that the prompt could lead to a more than 50 percent drop in Audience Network publisher revenue. In a statement, Apple reiterated its belief that "privacy is a fundamental right," adding that "a user's data belongs to them and they should get to decide whether to share their data and with whom." Apple said that its own data collection doesn't count as tracking because it doesn't share the data with other companies.

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iOS 14's Upcoming Anti-Tracking Prompt Sparks Antitrust Complaint In France

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  • Oh no! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @05:12AM (#60661554)

    the wording of Apple's permission prompt will lead most users to decline tracking of their device's advertising identifier, which could result in lost revenue.

    What will this world come to if advertisers have to get people's permission to be tracked? Oh the horror and lamentations of the masses when they're not being bombarded by notices for crap. Will this nightmare of being able to go about one's business without being relentlessly followed and hounded never end? What have the gods wrought upon this world when people can tell advertisers to fuck off?

    Apple said that its own data collection doesn't count as tracking because it doesn't share the data with other companies.

    And in other news . . .

    • While I can sense the sarcasm here, be careful what you ask for. When seventy percent of American GDP is derived from consumer spending, the pimps in marketing tend to make the world go round. For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.
      • by idji ( 984038 )
        Why not abolish marketing, and let word of mouth spread what is good quality. Bad companies need to market and the good don't.
        • by Rip!ey ( 599235 )

          Why not abolish marketing, and let word of mouth spread what is good quality.

          That is just as much marketing as anything else. The only difference between good and bad companies with respect to marketing is the perception of the person on the receiving end.

          • Re: Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)

            by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @08:45AM (#60661990)

            Bullshit. You misspelled propaganda and manipulation.

            When I tell my friends I had good success with Products X and Y but stay away from Z I'm NOT doing it to make a buck. I'm doing it because I have their best interests at heart.

            Go watch The Century of the Self [youtube.com] if you want to understand how industrial marketing was CREATED involving outright manipulation, propaganda, and control.

            Ban Advertising -- it has ZERO respect for people's space, time, and minds. It is visual trash and a blight upon society. Word of mouth is a much more honest way.

            • by tepples ( 727027 )

              Word of mouth is a much more honest way.

              How would knowledge of a product's existence spread to its first dozen customers?

              • How do you find any new product??

                Gee, if only search or browsing was available ... /s

                • How do you find any new product??

                  Gee, if only search or browsing was available ... /s

                  Sorry, but leaving it to the consumer to find your product hasn't existed for decades now. Greed is NOT that patient and you know it.

                  When was the last time you saw a company abandon ALL marketing and advertising? (No, products that feed addiction don't really count...that would be the addiction fueling the marketing, which is yet another problem in itself.)

                • by tepples ( 727027 )

                  Gee, if only search or browsing was available

                  That depends on exactly what sort of search query you had in mind. For example, you can search the web for reviews. If no reviewers know the product exists, you won't find any reviews. You would also need to know the name of the product or at least its category in order to find reviews thereof.

            • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

              Ban Advertising -- it has ZERO respect for people's space, time, and minds. It is visual trash and a blight upon society. Word of mouth is a much more honest way.

              This all assumes that you can actually trust the other person's endorsement of a product and can guarantee that they have no financial interest in the product. Word of mouth may work fine between friends but would you ban product reviews as well (a form of word of mouth)?

              • I believe there is a reasonable compromise to be made. I would ban the "push" model of advertising for the most part and restrict it to the "pull" model.

                Review sites use the pull model. I have to actively go out of my way to read these. i.e. Consumer Reports, Tech YouTubers, etc.

                I agree that "trust" for reviews and endorsements is definitely an issue. Amazon reviews have definitely seen an increase in "shill reviews" -- I don't see a good way to combat that problem at this time other then S:N over time of

            • Ban Advertising -- it has ZERO respect for people's space, time, and minds. It is visual trash and a blight upon society. Word of mouth is a much more honest way.

              Let's stop pretending Greed is going to wait around for you to pimp their product. You're right, you're not making a buck, but you and your mouth take way too damn long to make them money. Greed INVENTED manipulation, propaganda and control, in order to feed Greed.

        • by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          So how exactly is a company supposed to enter the market? Word of mouth is fine but if it takes literally years for your product to gain any kind of market share because you are only relying on word of mouth most companies won't be able to stay in business. If you all of a sudden abolish marketing you are only giving the well established brands a virtual monopoly for several years at the least.

        • Why not abolish marketing, and let word of mouth spread what is good quality. Bad companies need to market and the good don't.

          Greed will ensure that ANY company makes it's competition look bad with marketing. And no, you will not convince Greed to act accordingly or even honestly. Even if you try and legislate it. This is like assuming that a Presidential election would start out with nice, kind advertisements, and never devolve into utter shit-slinging and hatred when it happens every damn time.

          Corporate marketing would eventually devolve to be no better. (We also going to get rid of the entire patent/trademark/copyright syst

      • Re: Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SkonkersBeDonkers ( 6780818 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @06:24AM (#60661652)

        Dude that is like saying the war on drugs created a fuckton of jobs so we should keep it up.

        Marketing is exactly what got American politics into the miserable state it currently is.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by flink ( 18449 )

            Tracking merely to improve the quality of ads that are shown to you has, on the face of it, not done a lot. Now, I know, some organizations like Facebook use tracking to increase engagement in immoral ways, but they're not typical. Most marketers are looking at the information tracking provides to see what stages of their funnels are performing poorly, not encouraging third party advertisers to whip their users into a hysteria in order to improve their ability to show other third party ads.

            Marketing is just PSYOP without the guns. It definitely influences people in immoral ways by preying on well-know psychological vulnerabilities that most people have. Tracking helps you sort individuals into a particular target audience so you can identify probable vulnerabilities and engage them with the influence operation that will most effectively alter their behavior. Tracking is many things, but it's definitely not benign.

            When tracking data shows that a funnel is not performing correctly the advert

          • The War on Drugs destroys people's lives.

            Because the drugs themselves never destroyed people's lives.

            It encourages organized crime and provides a revenue source for them,

            Because none of that existed before the war on drugs.

            it throws people in prison and provides them with criminal records.

            When you break the law, this is what happens.

            It ensures dangerous drugs are provided in a deregulated environment,

            Why would we want anyone to have dangerous drugs?

            making them more
        • Dude that is like saying the war on drugs created a fuckton of jobs so we should keep it up.

          The war on drugs created approximately 9,000 jobs in the DEA. That's it. No way in hell would I ever defend that bullshit. Shut down the DEA, and re-assign them to border patrol for all I care. No one even has to lose their job.

          Marketing is exactly what got American politics into the miserable state it currently is.

          No, reducing politics to shit-slinging for the sake of ratings was a tactic stolen from the MSM, who no longer care about delivering truth or facts. Their job, is ratings now, by any means necessary. It is the reduction of our "Representatives" to fucking children throwing shit

          • Dude that is like saying the war on drugs created a fuckton of jobs so we should keep it up.

            The war on drugs created approximately 9,000 jobs in the DEA. That's it. No way in hell would I ever defend that bullshit. Shut down the DEA, and re-assign them to border patrol for all I care. No one even has to lose their job.

            Oh plus also all the lawyers involved, all the extra cops hired, all the private prisons built to accommodate the overflow and all the industries like prison food suppliers and construction that feed into/from them, all the military grade hardware sold to cops to pursue drug offenders and the list just goes on and on and on. Nearly half a million people are in prison for non-violent drug offenses and AT LEAST 20 billion dollars a year goes just into keeping them there.

            Marketing is exactly what got American politics into the miserable state it currently is.

            No, reducing politics to shit-slinging for the sake of ratings was a tactic stolen from the MSM, who no longer care about delivering truth or facts. Their job, is ratings now, by any means necessary. It is the reduction of our "Representatives" to fucking children throwing shit at each other that is the main culprit. CSPAN sure as hell wasn't sitting around wondering how they could destroy the entire American political system because they suddenly had investors to answer to overnight in a pre-IPO rush to generate value.

            IDK if you're being deliberately obtus

            • Dude that is like saying the war on drugs created a fuckton of jobs so we should keep it up.

              The war on drugs created approximately 9,000 jobs in the DEA. That's it. No way in hell would I ever defend that bullshit. Shut down the DEA, and re-assign them to border patrol for all I care. No one even has to lose their job.

              Oh plus also all the lawyers involved, all the extra cops hired, all the private prisons built to accommodate the overflow and all the industries like prison food suppliers and construction that feed into/from them, all the military grade hardware sold to cops to pursue drug offenders and the list just goes on and on and on. Nearly half a million people are in prison for non-violent drug offenses and AT LEAST 20 billion dollars a year goes just into keeping them there.

              Lawyers I could give a shit about. We have too many anyway, and they can become public defenders if they really want to practice law and help out the common man. All the "extra" cops won't be so "extra" as calls to defund the police continue to make that job impossible, which will cause many to quit. Sadly with the way shit keeps getting thrown from BOTH Red and Blue Gangs, there will likely be no one claiming we have "extra" cops anywhere in America soon. It may be quite the opposite problem.

              Shut down

      • by teg ( 97890 )

        While I can sense the sarcasm here, be careful what you ask for. When seventy percent of American GDP is derived from consumer spending, the pimps in marketing tend to make the world go round. For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.

        There are many kinds of marketing. Making good information available for a product is valuable, as are independent reviews. Both of these are marketing activities.

        • Yeah, like that goodd kind of marketing ever existed anywhere but in the fantasy worlds of the very fraudsters who tried ro market marketinf itself.

          Look up skinflint.co.uk. The huge list of product features you can filter and sort by and display and compare. The German/Austrian bigger original site is the only thing customers need, to find products. Anything beyond such a database, is lying, and hence by definition criminal.

          That is the massive elephant in the tiny room: All marketing is criminal.

      • by fazig ( 2909523 )

        For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.

        And that won't change. Marketing and advertising will still exist just as they have existed before data mining via smart phones.
        Ironically if they can't do it in such an automated fashion they might need to hire additional people to do their market research through some other means.


        Though what I can see happening here is that app vendors will diminish the functionality of their apps if tracking is declined.

      • Re: Oh no! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @08:04AM (#60661876) Journal

        So the problem with the the argument "... creates a lot of jobs" is that does not make it good alone. We should be asking does the activity produce real wealth or is it just activity. Activity alone might move wealth but may not generate much. Of course society exists for more than just making things so some activities like say sports exhibitions for entertainment, while leaving nothing tangible after their completion are certainly not 'wrong' in any moral sense. As long as someone wants to watch it may be worth doing.

        Other activity not so much; A command economy might have put a rule in place that say "we will produce 100K buggy whips each year", the activity might employee people and put a pay check in their pockets but it generates little if any wealth in a world where the whips just get dumped in the landfill because their are not enough buggies, horses, and drivers to utilize them.

        I think there is relatively little *want* on the part of individuals to have more marketing materials thrust at them. I as relatively little because I actually think people do like some amount of advertising and even some ad targeting because its actually a good and useful way for them to discover products and services they may wish to buy but did not know existed in the market place. However when you have a consume that when is presented the choice to disable ads or not be tracked for targeted advertising and they chose that option well that means its unwanted.

        The question is does it trigger additional consumption in those instances anyway and does that tail wag the dog and cause more production. This has been tough question to answer for advertisers since the inception of the industry, at what point does pushing more ads at someone who already is exposed to quite a lot of advertisements stop converting into more sales; because after that its 'just activity' not useful work.

      • A failing business model taking to the courts? Next they'll demand we not be able to change channels during commercial breaks - oh wait, they already argued that fast-forwarding through ads, ad blocking, and changing channels during commercials are theft. Didn't work.

        Next they'll argue for surveillance in the home as a right. Because their business model requires it.

        Why should I care about their business model failing? They're just going to have to come up with another business model. You know, innovat

      • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

        Because without advertising and marketing, nobody would buy the products?
        Granted, they may sell a little less (accidentally helping improve finances and health of the consumers), but nothing nearly as significant as they'd like to pretend.

      • While I can sense the sarcasm here, be careful what you ask for. When seventy percent of American GDP is derived from consumer spending, the pimps in marketing tend to make the world go round. For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.

        And none of this was true prior to the widespread adoption of personal cell phones?

        The producers of Mad Men would like to differ.

        • While I can sense the sarcasm here, be careful what you ask for. When seventy percent of American GDP is derived from consumer spending, the pimps in marketing tend to make the world go round. For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.

          And none of this was true prior to the widespread adoption of personal cell phones?

          The producers of Mad Men would like to differ.

          Of course it was true in the 20th Century. But what the hell makes you think a metric fuckton of 21st-Century marketing jobs haven't been added since the times of Mad Men? We're here discussing an out-of-control privacy robbing problem right now. And enough of pointing to fictional Hollywood as some kind of metric. The real world is barely believable, and we love to exaggerate history on the silver screen.

          And no, American GDP was not always buried solidly in outrageous consumer spending and obscene debt

      • by tflf ( 4410717 )

        While I can sense the sarcasm here, be careful what you ask for. When seventy percent of American GDP is derived from consumer spending, the pimps in marketing tend to make the world go round. For better or worse, advertising and marketing create a metric fuckton of jobs.

        The money will still be there to spend if on-line tracking goes away. It may not get spent the way the current crop of pimps, or their clients, want, but, hey, that's not the consumer's problem. After too many years of riding the (relatively) easy data-mining gravy train, the pimps will need to start working again. Either find other ways of reaching consumers, or yield the field to a new generation who will.

        The other issue are the companies who generate income by gathering and selling harvested data. Not

    • Re:Oh no! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @06:14AM (#60661628) Homepage Journal

      It's actually the case already that they must get affirmative, opt-in, no strings attached permission to track you because of GDPR.

      The fact that they try to claim they did because they buried it in the EULA of their app is bullshit. It has to be up-front and clear what they are requesting. Apple is doing the right thing here, this is how it's supposed to work.

      • That's not true at all and not how GDPR works. GDPR puts limits on how and what data is retained but does not prevent such tracking in the first place. Additionally, GDPR is completely reliant on others following the rules they laid out. Many don't bother to follow them, while others don't understand them (like yourself) and because of that gather more than they're suppose to. We also haven't seen any real enforcement of it even locally, much less internationally at this point. The reality is that it's more
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The GDPR does not allow free services to mandate opting in to non-essential personal data use to get the service either. Consent must be freely given, and that means no incentives or encouragement by refusing to offer the service otherwise.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              For example if there is a news website that is published on the open internet, not behind a paywall, it cannot block people because they rejected tracking cookies.

              The ICO has a clear explanation here: https://ico.org.uk/for-organis... [ico.org.uk]

              The belief that a a "cookie wall" is allowed seems to stem from a misunderstanding of what a "legitimate purpose" is. The ICO is very clear about it: "This does not include third parties such as analytics services or online advertising." Furthermore

              "If your use of a cookie wall

          • by mark-t ( 151149 )

            How about simply offering this as an incentive:

            By opting in to personalized ads, you will not receive the same ad for the same product more than once every 30 days.

            Since really the ad's entire purpose is to try and convince someone who wouldn't have *OTHERWISE* bought the product to do so, it seems that the best chance the ad has of doing this is if the person either haven't heard of the product and is seeing the ad for the first time, or the last time they thought about the product was long enough ago

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Apple said that its own data collection doesn't count as tracking because fuck you, that's why.

      • by tepples ( 727027 )

        Apple said that its own data collection doesn't count as tracking because fuck you, that's why.

        I don't see how "because we have a history of not sharing it with other businesses" is the same as "because intercourse you."

  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @05:28AM (#60661568)

    It depends if this is Apple's attempt to strong arm their own data collection and advertising business at the expense of others. Based on their actions thus far unless they are bolstering their own business in direct competition to these guys it will be unlikely that this is considered an antitrust issue.

    Anti-trust law does not preclude a company from deciding that they don't want that kind of shit on their platform, unless they do so in order to introduce their own same tasting shit.

    Prediction: This will go nowhere.

  • "Advertising companies and publishers have filed a complaint against Apple with France's competition authority, arguing that the enhanced privacy measures would be anticompetitive" Because our data can't be mined for profit unless we consent it is anticompetitive? Give me a break, Zuckerberg & friends. Seriously, one of the best things about Apple is how much they value privacy. I thank them for doing this. However you can check out 3rd party app stores [darkhackerworld.com] for IOS.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday October 29, 2020 @05:43AM (#60661592)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Kind of Like Lucky Pierre
    • Ha! Thanks for the laugh. I envisioned Tim Cook calling his lawyer in about a defense strategy. The lawyer hands him a mirror and walks out.
    • It's almost as if countries were made up of various different groups of people! Imagine that... As to whether such decision would be hilarious would indeed depend on the legal reasoning. You can't a priori say there is none that would make sense. For example, as someone here pointed out, if Apple will track people while not allowing others to do the same, that's an entirely different issue than what privacy regulations should or shouldn't apply to all companies.
    • Apple said that its own data collection doesn't count as tracking because it doesn't share the data with other companies.

      Is it possible to opt out of Apple's tracking? If not, then this definitely counts as an abuse of monopoly... Monopoly on tracking, I guess.

      • Settings - privacy - location services - off

        Privacy - analytics - share analytics - off

        Privacy - advertising - limit ad tracking - on

        Privacy - advertising - reset advertising identifier

        Wifi - off

        Bluetooth - off

        Airdrop, handoff, CarPlay - off

        Siri and Search - turn everything off.

        Delete Apple News, Music, etc. Also delete all Google apps, Facebook, Twitter.

        Install Firefox for iOS, turn off all image display (prevents loading of web bugs, social media tracking icons, graphical ads, videos).

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Thursday October 29, 2020 @06:16AM (#60661632)

    "alleges that the wording of Apple's permission prompt will lead most users to decline tracking of their device's advertising identifier, "

    We'd decline no matter what the wording would be, we'd do it right now without any word at all.

  • Just kill the advertising identifier. That will hurt them more and harass the users less.

  • I am not a toilet seat affectionado. I don't collect them. I don't hang them on my walls. Mine broke and I ordered a replacement. Please quit bombarding me with ads for toilet seats.

    kthxbye
  • Today's story, they'll make it likely users will reduce tracking by other services while Apple still collects data.

    Sounds like a symbiotic plan to empower their search engine.

    To be fair: I'm an Apple user and not an Apple basher, but these two tidbits together seem suspicious.

  • Advertising is one of the biggest scams in the modern tech world if not the leading one. I personally have never bought anything because of a google or other ad. Google almost never shows me anything im remotely interested in or need. I have no idea why they keep trying to sell me cars after i just bought one not that long ago. Of course their targeting is way off it always is. THe same is true of many people i have asked this question. Why would anyone buy a car after being shown different cars for over
    • They have no choice. They could easily figure out who doesn't respond to ads but that would mean advertisers would not be spending money on the useless ads, cutting down Google revenue.

      To the advertisers, we are the product. But to google, the advertisers are the product, to be harvested/screwed over as much as possible.

      • You didnt actually address my statement about the relevancy of ads from G and friends, and how successful those ads have been with you , your family, friends and community. G continues to show me car ads, again i ask, if someone doesnt buy a car from the first ad, or the tenth why would they buy a car after six months ?
    • by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      I personally have never bought anything because of a google or other ad.

      You sure? Can you be sure you've never made a purchase that you wouldn't have if you haven't seen an ad?

      Why would anyone buy a car after being shown different cars for over and over again ? Do people really buy a car because they have seen the same ad 1000x times ?

      Enough do. Maybe. Although the real thing with advertising is: no one buys a product they don't know exists. Part of the point to advertising is ensuring people are aware a product or service exists at all. Ensuring that people are kept aware that a product exists at all can get them to purchase it when they're ready to buy.

      Actually, though, I agree with you: advertising is a giant scam and the people sel

      • Are you really going to pretend that because i bought a coke after seeing a 100 ads, that the advertising platofm works ? Is that really value for money or hones tto pretend that in twenty years the platform is working because I bought a few coca colas ? There are plenty of other ad platforms, ads on buses, tv, billboards, now tell me since i dont live in a rock in th emiddle of nowhere, how can you honestly make a statement that internet advertising influenced me ? Is that really the definition of success
  • Apple's data collection doesn't count? Oh fuck yes it does. All data matters!
  • In Sao Paulo, all public outdoor ads are outlawed and the result is a much more beautiful city. So why not expand this idea to all spaces? Completely ban ads. Then products will spread only by word of mouth based on their merits. Companies shouldn't be able to buy their way into the public consciousness. That's a door to evil.
    • by tepples ( 727027 )

      Then products will spread only by word of mouth based on their merits.

      Who would spread knowledge of a brand new product the first time?

  • ...where France stands on privacy.
  • It's not fair! Why do I need my wife's permission to fuck her!?

  • If this complaint is rejected, advertisers may have to offer incentives to individuals, probably as product discounts, for granting permission to track.

  • How about we just say no to this personalized ad nonsense? If we do that we obviously erode the profits of companies that have made billions by tracking us. It'd be a simple fix to all of this.

    • by mark-t ( 151149 )
      I can't say I like ads, but to be honest, if I knew I had to wait through an ad anyways, I'd honestly rather see one that is actually relevant to me than one that isn't.
  • ... then give the users some perceptible benefit as seen from their own side as a reason to opt in.

    Otherwise, you are just coming across as a company who is whining about another company doing something that might actually improve a user experience, but simultaneously may make it harder for you to profit.

    That's not antitrust, that's dependency on a business model that doesn't actually cater to customer demand and whining about it as your business model stops making money. Fix your business model. Gi

    • i realize that this is Slashdot and reading of actual articles is not encouraged but... As explained in the article, apple forbids giving or withholding anything of value in exchange for granting tracking. The only way compliant companies will be able to get permission is from stupidity of users who give up this privacy for no reason, from a sense of goodwill, or some situation in which the user derives some benefit or satisfaction from the actual act of giving away their data. For example steam doesn't h
  • They could not have gotten a better promotion for this feature if they paid for it! If these guys are willing to sue over it, then it must actually be working great.

Keep up the good work! But please don't ask me to help.

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