Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Businesses Apple Hardware

Apple is Removing the USB Power Adapter From Upcoming Apple Watch Boxes (theverge.com) 109

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Apple on Tuesday announced it would no longer be including USB power adapters with Apple Watch devices as part of an effort to reduce its environmental impact. From a report: Removing the power adapter means new Apple Watch customers won't have access to the device that plugs into the wall, but they should still receive Apple's custom Apple Watch cable that recharges the device wirelessly. According to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, this move won't be restricted to Apple Watch devices; it will also include upcoming iPhones.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple is Removing the USB Power Adapter From Upcoming Apple Watch Boxes More

Apple is Removing the USB Power Adapter From Upcoming Apple Watch Boxes

Comments Filter:

  • About time (Score:4, Funny)

    by martynhare ( 7125343 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:14PM (#60508878)
    Pun intended.
    • Most of those power adapters go unused since we now tend to have more devices than we do wall ports where we frequently charge our devices (for me its the night stand). I ordered a Multi-outlet charger that has 4 USB A chargers and two USB C chargers for the MacBook Pros, iPads, and extra battery chargers I have.

      That being said, Apple sells those chargers for $19, so to protect the environment and not have it seem like it was economically motivated, the prices should have been reduced by $19 on the watches

      • citation needed for "most" (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Does your wall charger output 12W (type A) or 18W (type C)? I doubt it.

        I use all the high-power chargers I've gotten (from iPads or while traveling overseas). Apple should have upgraded the 5W chargers to the better chargers. The cost is negligible and their motto used to be "it just works." As in, everything you need is in the box. This nickel and diming bullshit is good for the stock price but terrible for customer loyalty.

        • My outlet will do 30W usb-c if it's the only device plugged in. Makes me not need to have a specialized laptop charging cable in the living room, one cable charges all of my mobile devices.
        • My unit has 100W between the two USB-C connectors (convenient, as I need to MacBook Pro 15" to remain charged as I use it), and use quick charge for the USB-A ports. TBH I'm not sure what that means watt wise, but if you want a link to it: This is what I recently purchased [amazon.com]. HTHs

        • This nickel and diming bullshit is good for the stock price but terrible for customer loyalty.

          It will also serve nicely to sever any non apple approved interaction with your device.

      • Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Rhipf ( 525263 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @04:26PM (#60509198)

        It's fine that Apple is no longer providing the charger in the box. The least that they could do is insert a card for a free charger that you can redeem either at an Apple store or via mail (with postage paid both ways). If the only reason that Apple is not providing the charger in the box is to be more environmentally friendly then they shouldn't have a problem with this proposed solution. If the reason they are doing this is so that they can add a few extra dollars profit I say shame on them. They are sitting on enough cash that they can easily afford to include a voucher for a free charger. They would probably still increase there profits over shipping the charger in the box (not everyone will redeem the voucher).

        • No, because then people will send in the card whether they actually need the adapter or not ("hey, free stuff!") - so they can turn around and sell it on either eBay or Amazon Marketplace.

          If humans were a more logical species, though, I'd agree with you.

          • Re:About time (Score:4, Insightful)

            by NFN_NLN ( 633283 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @04:55PM (#60509300)

            So how is it an environmental 'waste', if someone on ebay legitimately puts it to good use?

            > If humans were a more logical species

            Oh, this is one of those ironic meta posts?

            • So how is it an environmental 'waste', if someone on ebay legitimately puts it to good use?

              Because most of them are never sold on eBay.

              I have a crate of excess USB chargers. Many dozens. Perhaps more than a hundred accumulated over the last few decades.

              I will never sell them on eBay because it isn't worth my time.

              Someday I will toss them in the trash. Until then, they gather dust in my garage.

              • Re:About time (Score:4, Insightful)

                by NFN_NLN ( 633283 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @07:48PM (#60509702)

                >> So how is it an environmental 'waste', if someone on ebay legitimately puts it to good use?

                > Because most of them are never sold on eBay.

                Then don't order the adapter and don't sell it on ebay.
                List/sell the card. If no one buys it, throw is away. If someone buys it, send them the card and they can redeem the adapter direct. This would also save on shipping fees.

                Next up... world hunger...

            • So how is it an environmental 'waste', if someone on ebay legitimately puts it to good use?

              We should use more plastic. Afterall it's "recyclable" and "reusable" right? The fact that we don't actually do either in even a remotely sufficient capacity is irrelevant according to you right?

              Seriously selling a charger second hand? I think we on Slashdot should start keeping lists of things that people simply don't do.

          • So ebay is going to be flooded with phone chargers (probably limited to 1 per customer) when anyone who needs one can just claim a free one off apple? Riiiight, logic.
        • But the wireless charger is still included, right? (The summary says "should"?)

          Wireless charging of a watch is totally the way to go. I have quite a long sequence of Garmin watches, and every one develops charging problems eventually, presumably because the charging contacts are soaked in sweat and grime every use.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )

          It *would* be fine, if they would switch to using a ubiquitous connector like usb c instead of a lightning port.

          Otherwise just they are trading the environmental impact of supplying a charging cable for the environmental impact of drawing more power to charge wirelessly than what could be achieved via cable charging.

          Either way, the consumer pays for it.

        • I bet you its more to do with getting rid of the usb connector so if you need to transfer any data of any kind on or off your phone you are going to have to do it through apple approved software. Oh, and I also bet the wireless chargers will be proprietary and cost at least twice what an equivialent does.
        • If their concern is environmental, then why would they force people to buy separately packaged adapters? I don't have a watch, but my last iPhone came in a biodegradable box with plastic only in the shrink wrap and a cable tie. Buy an adapter and/or cable separately and it will probably come in a plastic clamshell. Thus, Apple has caused a net increase in waste plastic.

          Having everything you might need jammed into one carboard box is better for the environment than packing them separately.

          And if you

      • Re:About time (Score:4, Informative)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @05:24PM (#60509386)

        prices should have been reduced by $19 on the watches.

        If you think prices are based on cost, perhaps you should educate yourself by reading some books on marketing and microeconomics.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 )

      Cue the Apple fans who will gamely try to put a good spin on this (and fail).

  • Iâ(TM)m OK with this (Score:3)

    by iCharles ( 242580 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:22PM (#60508898) Homepage
    If weâ(TM)re talking the 5- or 10-watt USB A adapter, thatâ(TM)s fine. I have a bin of a dozen surplus Iâ(TM)ve accumulated over the years with other devices, freebies, or purchased at airports to replace something forgottenâ¦and that excludes ones in use (here or at the office) or kept in bags, glove compartments, and the like. I can live without them, and can pony up $5 at Walgreens if need be. The cables, on the other handâ¦I canâ(TM)t seem to have enough cables. (Likewise, a 65 watt USB-C laptop adapter is a bit rich for my blood to to expect one to be included.)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      An official Apple 10W charger is 20 bucks from a reputable retailer (not Amazon). So I'd be okay with it if they reduced the price by that much.

      • Re:Iâ(TM)m OK with this (Score:4, Informative)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @05:44PM (#60509424)

        So I'd be okay with it if they reduced the price by that much.

        Are you going to change your purchasing decision based on the price difference?

        If not, why should Apple care?

        My spouse has an Apple Watch. So bought it so all her friends can see her wearing it. A higher price makes it more impressive as a fashion statement, so the higher price makes it more desirable.

        I'd wager that there are more people like her than people like you.

        An Apple Watch is a Veblen good [wikipedia.org].

        • My spouse has an Apple Watch. So bought it so all her friends can see her wearing it. A higher price makes it more impressive as a fashion statement, so the higher price makes it more desirable.

          This right here is the problem. They don't have to make it good when they know people will spend whatever they ask just for the logo so they can say to all their friends, oh look how cool and amazing I am because I have the right logo, wooooo. They know that and that's why an apple product is, at best, only just good enough but because they are a fashion device the logically challeneged assume it must be good because lots of people have them and they are expensive. It's just diamonds v2. Kids got savvy to s

    • But they do include a wireless charger, so you get to use way more electricity to charge the watch than you'd normally be using. Not to mention the extra packaging involved in buying that adapter at Walgreens instead of having it included with the watch.

      Environmental friendship at its best!

  • I have half a dozen Apple power adapters lying around. The cables however...

    • For many years, Apple has been notorious for selling fragile cables. I can only imagine how many sea animals have choked on broken Apple cables.

      • Strain relief plugs are not sexy and smooth enough. Nevermind that it causes you to have to buy a new cable every 1.5 years.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

          > Strain relief plugs are not sexy and smooth enough.

          Uhh... dude, even though they're both plugs 'strain relief' can not be substituted for 'butt'.

        • You can get 1.5 years out of an Apple cable nowadays? Maybe they've improved.
      • Every time I hear complaints about "notoriously fragile" cables from Apple, I find myself wondering what on earth people are doing to them. Swinging them over your head like a lasso, with the phone plugged in? Using them for cat's cradle? I can't recall an Apple cable failing on me since the days of the 30 pin iPhone 4 connector.
    • ...will still be included. So if that would have been a gripe, gripe not.

  • Good (Score:3)

    by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:25PM (#60508912) Homepage Journal

    Because the sh*t charger they include is worthless anyway. First thing I do is buy (or use one I already have) a decent fast charger.

    • Even at 5W the watch charges from dead to full in under an hour.
      • Stick the watch in the microwave, and it will be fully chaged in five minutes.

        • Stick the watch in the microwave, and it will be fully chaged in five minutes.

          Make sure you also put it in a metal bowl and the extra reflected quantum nano energy reflections will cause it to charge in half that time to ten times the capacity. One charge will last a week. Money back guarantee.

      • Even at 5W the watch charges from dead to full in under an hour.

        And how long does that last?

    • Where are you getting an Apple Watch fast charger? It charges at the same speed with the 5W included charger or even a 100W USB-C charger.

  • Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sit1963nz ( 934837 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:30PM (#60508932)
    If it was all about being "Green" Apple would get rid of all the plastic and polystyrene packaging in their products.

    This will be ALL about profit margins, keep the price the same but include less product.

    Yeah, I have multiple chargers, but they are in multiple places, I even have one in the car in case I am somewhere and need a charger
    • Do you carry one twixt your buttocks when away from the car? You never know...

    • What, because you need another charger that puts 5VDC onto a USB-A port? You don't already have a shit ton of them from everything else you've bought in the last 10 years?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by maxrate ( 886773 )
      I agree.

    • Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jarwulf ( 530523 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:43PM (#60509004)
      If it was about the environment they'd reengineer their POS products to last more than a few years, make them independently repairable, and advertise accordingly. This is costcutting hiding under virtuesignaling plain and simple.
      • They have made them independently-repairable now, at least in terms of policy. Third-party repair shops can now get parts. Obviously, most have to come from Apple, but it's a start.
        • Every Mac I have owned I have upgraded the RAM and the Hard Drive as time goes by and my needs increase. From my Mac+ onwards.
          Well that is until my MBP 13", everything is soldered onto the board.

          Upgrade, Repair, Reuse all come well before recycle.

          • Well that is until my MBP 13", everything is soldered onto the board.

            Probably in BGA packages too, which are a pain even for professional PCBA manufacturers. I've heard that you pretty much need X-ray to verify the soldering on those. They're used because they offer such high densities.

            • Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)

              by willy_me ( 212994 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @07:25PM (#60509656)

              I've heard that you pretty much need X-ray to verify the soldering on those.

              You need an X-ray to verify the soldering of any BGA device. But it is not limited to BGA, any device package where you can not directly see the solder joints requires an X-ray to verify. It is not really attributed to high densities although higher pin counts do represent more possible faults.

              But the X-ray is only really used at the start of a production run. You make some boards and use the X-ray to verify that the soldering profile being used is sufficient. Different PCBs have different thermal characteristics so you never really know a solder profile is good until you try it. Once verified, multiple boards can be assembled without using an X-ray on each board.

              When installing individual parts, the X-ray is often skipped. You only heat the specific part of the board you are soldering to and you can manually verify that the IC reflows onto the board. You just look through the microscope and watch for when the solder balls melt and the IC "drops" into place. All 4 sides need to "drop" into place. Then, heat it up just a bit more and you are done. If the board now works correctly then the soldering job was a success. There is no real need to X-ray at this point because it is a one-of job / product.

              But if you have BGA devices then you probably also have a complex PCB where traces are often hidden. Multiple layers, hidden vias, via in pads, etc. So you never know if an IC is blown or there is a board fault due to a broken trace. Perhaps a trace breaks when removing an IC - it is very easy to do. The odds of a successful repair go down and it becomes even more desirable to not even bother trying.

            • I've heard that you pretty much need X-ray to verify the soldering on those.

              That's just standard QC for a high end electronics manufacturer, not any kind of obscene requirement. The equipment needed to do that fits on a desk (though it's usually floor standing with a cabinet underneath).

      • Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Informative)

        by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @04:44PM (#60509258)
        What the hell are you on about with their products only lasting a few years? I'm still using an iPad Air 2 that's going to be six years old and it still works great and Apple still provides OS updates.

        Frankly they're the best device company when it comes to supporting their products. Lack of repairability is an issue, but they're pretty robust and if you take care of them they'll last longer than anything else on the market.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Reeses ( 5069 )

      If it was all about being "Green" Apple would get rid of all the plastic and polystyrene packaging in their products.

      They largely have. Almost all of the packaging is paper, or non-oil derived plastic. There's very little plastic left, except for the keys of their keyboards and the Pencils.

      • Those bloody big chunks of polystyrene aside every iMac...
        Then there is the black foam glued onto the lids of packaging
        All the plastic wrapping around every item

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Reeses ( 5069 )

          I just watched a couple of unboxing videos. I haven't opened an iMac in years. I didn't know it had polystyrene.

          Most of the other products have some sort of weird paper as packaging.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Yeah, I would believe that Apple was really doing this for "environmental" reasons if they offered you the choice of including a charger in your order for free at the time of purchase.

      The fact that they want to charge you $20 for one now means that this is really about boosting profit margins to keep the shareholders happy.

    • Yup a lot of the "green" intiatives are blatant profit plays -- else they would have a price reduction with it. I mean, you go to even supposedly high end hotels and they don't replace the sheets out "to be green".

      • Wait, I thought the problem with going green was it isn't economical to conserve? Pick one.

        • What, why should I pick one? It depends on the situation. It can be economical in some situations, and not in others .. isn't that obvious? If you have a gold cup, it might be a economical to re-use it. If it's toilet paper, it might be more economical to discard it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tflf ( 4410717 )

      Apparently Apple believes
        - their branded chargers and cables never fail.
        - no one uses or needs multiples.
        - being green does not include making their products repairable

      Side note: in an unrelated development, the already over-inflated retail costs of Apple cables, and chargers, will go up, a lot.

    • If it was all about being "Green" Apple would get rid of all the plastic and polystyrene packaging in their products.

      It sounds like you haven't bought an Apple product in at least the past several years. The packaging is almost all paper and cardboard - even for the laptops.

      • Go buy an iMac and see how much polystyrene is in the box.
        1 big piece at the top holding the screen and 2 smaller pieces holding the base.
        1 x piece of plastic covering the hole the power cable is in.
        1x piece of plastic covering the screen/front of iMac
        etc.


        Laptop boxes have a plastic tray in them + plastic wrapping on the power supply and another piece around the power cables.
        Then there are the trow away Apple stickers + blurb inside the card packaging for it all.

    • They have been making efforts with that. It's actually kind of annoying because the headphones now come coiled around a piece of cardboard, which isn't reusable. Meanwhile I still have an old plastic holder that I use for storing my headphones in my bag as it makes them last longer and avoids me struggling to untangle them when Iâ(TM)m trying to join a meeting. And no, I won't join the brigade of people who disrupt meetings because the battery life of AirPods isn't sufficient for the daily round of

  • Same great price!

    • Think of all the trees that will be saved because you can pay with all high denomination notes.

      Oh, electronic transactions? It saves energy to transmit zeros.

    • Same great price!

      You obviously don't know Apple very well. There will probably be a $20 environmental consciousness fee added on.

      • If $20 and a wall plug are breaking points I think that potential customer should do a hard second-round review of personal financial health. I don't disagree with you though.
  • I really wish that people would stop calling it "wireless charging", since that implies that energy is being beamed to the device. It really should be called "inductive charging", since it requires a close physical coupling. It doesn't require plugging in wires, but it does require that the inductive charging loops be placed in proximity to each other. In every other sense of the word "wireless" it refers to radiating energy. This is why marketing is bad. Notice that I didn't use the phrase "close proximity

    • Are there wires between the charger and the device being charged?

      Is there a magnetic field being radiated from the charger, which can induce an electric current in the device being charged?

      What's your problem with calling it 'wireless charging' again? Why does a magnetic field deserve less consideration than a radio wave or light pulse?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pimpy ( 143938 )

      I'm not sure I see the distinction, no wires are involved, hence, wireless. The fact it needs to be in close proximity doesn't change this. IrDA required close proximity too, but it was still wireless.

    • It doesn't require plugging in wires

      If you think you are bothered by inductive charging being called wireless, you should see my dismay at the claim it doesn't require plugging in, and has no wires... the inductive pad that ships with an Apple Watch very much requires being plugged into a USB port, and is made of of wires.

      it is a little handier being able to not have to find a small plug on a device to charge the Watch. But I still prefer using a charging cable on my iPhone, rather than the inductive abili

    • that implies that energy is being beamed to the device.

      It's not being beamed very far, but it literally is - in the form of electromagnetic radiation. It very exactly fits that definition.

  • In future news ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:43PM (#60508990)

    Apple on Tuesday announced it would no longer be including USB power adapters with Apple Watch devices as part of an effort to reduce its environmental impact. ... but they should still receive Apple's custom Apple Watch cable that recharges the device wirelessly.

    To further reduce the environmental impact of charging, Apple announces that their devices will be delivered with a full battery charge, but will not be able to be recharged. Users will be able to exchange depleted devices for fresh ones at any Apple store. A spokesperson commented that the switch to single-charge devices will greatly reduce the environmental impact and logistics of chargers and cables.

    • Single-charge devices will also be "Our best user experience ever", because it will free their user's creative minds of the complicated task of having to plug in a cable or orient the iDevice on a wireless charger, freeing more time for.."creative" work.

  • Apple's True Motivations (Score:3)

    by organgtool ( 966989 ) on Tuesday September 15, 2020 @03:43PM (#60509000)
    I find it interesting that everything that is being done for the sake of "environmental impact" also happens to save the company a shit-ton of money. In this case, Apple is saving money not only due to the fact that it doesn't have to manufacture as many power adapters, it will also save them a bunch of money on shipping costs since it will cut down on the package weight, and they may even be able to shrink down the package size as well.

    But if Apple truly cared at all about the environment, they would allow their customers to upgrade and replace the memory and storage in their laptops. Worse yet, when the memory or storage in a MacBook fails, they require you to pay for a whole new board instead of just the component that failed. If they really cared about reducing waste, they wouldn't ignore industry-standard integrated circuits in their computers for the purpose of using proprietary chips which can be prevented from getting into the hands of third-party repair services who could help extend the life of the device.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think excluding USB power adapters is inherently a bad move. Most people already have at least one power adapter at this point and it will definitely cut down on waste. I'm just calling attention to Apple's true motivations here.
    • The thing I wonder is if they are loweirng the cost of the device by the price of the things they're leaving out. Likely not. You're just going to keep paying for it. Maybe they should also look into reducing their need for rare earth minerals in their products. Like when they mine 50 tons of rock and dirt to get a a tiny bit in return.

    • ... because that's been shown to be so much more efficient than charging by cable!

  • There is an ongoing process in the EU that might result in a regulation that would require future mobile devices to use a common standard for charging and not bundle a charger in the box.

    Apple uses USB Power Delivery with a USB-C socket in the charger, even though the device could use have either a Lightning or USB-C socket.
    USB-PD is the most supported common standard on the device ends, supported also by recent versions of QuickCharge and VOOC (and all the different rebrandings of those).
    By Apple being one

  • the location. Your are more than welcomed to stop by and pick one up in person after paying the storage fees.
  • A cable that recharges the device wirelessly? I don't think that word means what they think it means...

  • Speaking of environmental impact, isn't the wireless charger a lot less energy efficient?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

      > Speaking of environmental impact, isn't the wireless charger a lot less energy efficient?

      If we're going to be that anal about saving electricity, then you need to stop commenting to save the environment:

      https://lifehacker.com/how-muc... [lifehacker.com]

  • Everyone says they don't mind this because they have a drawer full of adapters at home.
    How did you get that drawer full of adapters? By getting them free with devices.
    And where will you get a future drawer full of adapters if nobody includes them with devices anymore?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mark-t ( 151149 )
      That would be fine if the iPhone used a ubiquitous connector type. It does not.

      If Apple were remotely serious about this "environmental impact" bullshit, they would switch the iphone from lightning to USB-C.

      Otherwise all they are doing is passing environmental impact costs to the consumer who must either purchase a cable or else be nickled and dimed over the lifetime of the device on account of wireless charging drawing more power.

      • They're still including the cable, it's the USB "brick" that plugs into the wall socket they're leaving out and Apple uses standard USB ones for those.

    • Buy a few of them for $3 a piece on Amazon (or eBay, if you want to be eco-friendly and buy second hand). Drawer of chargers established. It's not like they're a rare commodity, or have an expiration date.

      I also wouldn't be surprised if wall outlets with built-in USB ports become more commonplace in new builds.

  • I'm glad they're improving their electronic monitoring bracelet
  • Such a bold move towards the eventual goal of only being able to charge your devices at the Apple Store. After all, non-Apple electricity may cause your Apple device to not perform as it should. Therefore Apple recommends all devices be charged at your local Apple store for only $20/Wh. This electricity will come with support from an Apple genius, of course.

    I'm glad at least Louis Rossman exposes the nonsense spewing from Apple about repair.

  • Quit putting out so many goddamned new things every fucking year. A good-sized chunk of the planet's pollution is directly attributable to Apple.

  • Remove peripheral item from product box. Sell product at same price. It's the tech world version of the grocery store shrink ray.
  • On the environment that is.

    Why? Well for one, people will still want to plug in, so they'll buy a separate charger/adapter, which means an extra set of packaging, possibly in a less environmentally-friendly package than the cardboard boxes Apple uses. That's right, by not including their own, Apple is driving consumers to purchase more individually packaged products. Probably in those plastic clamshells. Apple gets to pretend they're reducing their impact, but they're just making someone else's worse

  • People will just buy them on Amazon. I get every gesture is important for the good of the environment, but at the price Apple sells, this is all air and no substance ðY(TM)
    • I have never used the charger in the box, I always have an AuKey fast charger with usb c and usb + 3 tips cable (USB C MICRO USB AND LIGHTNING) and the price of the 6 series is cheaper than the series 5 (steel anyway). Otherwise the usb sockets there are everywhere (bus, car, computer, airport etc.) and generally a watch is recharged at home so good ... https://getappvalley.com/ [getappvalley.com] https://tutuappx.com/ [tutuappx.com] https://tweakbox.mobi/ [tweakbox.mobi]

Slashdot Top Deals

Dennis Ritchie is twice as bright as Steve Jobs, and only half wrong. -- Jim Gettys

Close