Unity Cites Apple and Google App Store Policies as a Major Risk Factor in its IPO Filing (sec.gov) 39
Unity Software, a San Francisco-based company known for its popular video game engine, has filed to go public on the New York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol "U." An interesting point it raised in its filing: In particular, operating system platform providers or application stores such as Apple or Google may change their technical requirements or policies in a manner that adversely impacts the way in which we or our customers collect, use and share data from end-user devices. Restrictions in our ability to collect and use data as desired could negatively impact our Operate Solutions as well as our resource planning and feature development planning for our software. Similarly, at any time, these platform providers or application stores can change their policies on how our customers or we operate on their platform or in their application stores by, for example, applying content moderation for applications and advertising or imposing technical or code requirements. Actions by operating system platform providers or application stores such as Apple or Google may affect the manner in which we or our customers collect, use and share data from end-user devices. In June 2020, Apple announced plans to require applications using its mobile operating system, iOS, to affirmatively (on an opt-in basis) obtain an end-user's permission to "track them across apps or websites owned by other companies" or access their device's advertising identifier for advertising and advertising measurement purposes, as well as other restrictions. We expect that Apple may implement these changes as early as fall of 2020.
Concerning (Score:5, Interesting)
It's concerning that a video game engine developer considers restrictions on their ability to collect a person's information to be a risk to their business.
Re:Concerning (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, that the platform developers "can and do" do this and developers have no effective recourse strongly smacks of monopoly power.
Re:Concerning (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter which platform is used, the user has to have control, not the developer.
At first I too thought this was a story about the Apple/Google railroad screwing with developers, but then I see this guy just wants to spy on people. Fuck 'em
Re: (Score:1)
Sorry, too late to trust them now. Can't cut them any slack.
We really need better network sniffers. That will go a long way to correcting the problem
Re: (Score:1)
You're literally being tracked more from a personal point of view on this site then you ever would be in a Unity game.
Yeah? so?
bla bla bla
:-) Feel better now?
Re: (Score:1)
I think a more comparable scenario would be:
* Apple requires you to use its telemetry API
* Apple requires a 30-50% stake in all sales of user personal data
* Apple requires a 10c/record fee for exporting any user usage data
* Apple requires using an Apple-provided VPN for all traffic from ad sites
Then this might be similar to the Epic lawsuit. As is, Apple really is trying to make things better for, and protect, their users. In the epic case, Apple is excluding alternative payment methods in favor of their ow
Re: (Score:2)
Unreal engine and Unity can both be used on iOS but they are also, by design, portable to every game console and computing device. This is just complaining for the sake of complaining by Epic, and Unity's own filings reflect this loss of access to customers privacy.
Epic will ultimately lose because it's a contract dispute between Apple and Epic. Not an Anti-trust case brought by the DOJ or EU Comission.
Re: (Score:2)
Epic didn't sue for breach of contract. You are factually wrong. They breached their own contract to gain standing to file an antitrust lawsuit.
This IS an antitrust case.
Re: Concerning (Score:2)
There is also the issue that Apple could arbitrarily ban them for no reason other than Apple wants everyone to use a (their own?) competing engine that is exclusively only available on iOS.
Re: (Score:2)
that's a risk on any platform. MS and Sony can go buy or develop their engines next year and do the same. closed eco systems have been around since the 80's when game consoles first came out.
Re: Concerning (Score:2)
Yes, but is it an acceptable risk that is good for society? According to the constitution, copyright/patent rights should be such that they advance the useful arts. Since monopolistic behavior doesnâ(TM)t serve that purpose should we relax Appleâ(TM)s IP rights, so that more competition exists, unless they agree to allow others to get on their platforms on terms society deems fair?
That way, unless they want their patents to be shorter duration (which enables competing products to be made) they sho
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but is it an acceptable risk that is good for society?
They're video games. They're only socially useful by virtue of the fact that they create economic activity.
Basically, Epic and Unity just want anti-malware mechanisms to be ruled as antitrust violations. Epic's lawsuit is comparable to a spammer suing Gmail for not providing an open relay server.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. From the headline, that's what I thought it would be about. But that's not what they're worried about. They're worried Apple and Google won't let them spy enough.
Re:Concerning (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of Unity games are freeware mobile games, monetized with ad support. Note that they did say
...the way in which we or our customers collect...
It's also not just about user tracking. It's the fact that these companies have complete and very arbitrary gatekeeper powers, and can, in an instant, wipe out all possibility of publishing to their platform with a simple rule change.
Similarly, at any time, these platform providers or application stores can change their policies on how our customers or we operate on their platform or in their application stores by, for example, applying content moderation for applications and advertising or imposing technical or code requirements.
Naturally, we're seeing that play out with Apple and Epic at this very moment, so it's not unreasonable that Unity would have concerns about this as well - even if their concerns do largely seemed focused around in-game advertisement (yuck).
Re: (Score:2)
Note that 'our customers' in the case of Unity are game developers, not those who download the games. So Unity and other people publishing games are restricted more than Unity likes, but in this case the actual player perspective is not being catered to.
I'm sympathetic to the general lock in of mandating store and 30% revenue sharing to be high, but I'm not so sympathetic to these cited concerns.
Re: (Score:2)
It's even more concerning that "advertising" is now rhetorically synonymous with "collecting user's data."
GOOD! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hard to argue that this is a bad thing. Unity is complaining that they can't monitor, track, and telemetry all data on your phone back to them? Good!
For the rest of the battle going on, this is not part of it. Unity is expressing their great desire to act maliciously toward the end users. Just another reminder: if you're not the customer, you're the product.
Re: (Score:3)
Also if you're a customer, you still might be the product.
Re: "U"? (Score:2)
Maybe because unless your letter has an obvious correspondence (like Ford's F), no one will recognize it by its ticker. UNTY actually seems to be a better choice for recognition.
"Popular" (Score:2)
Is their any web game player who sees the Unity loading page and say to themselves "Oh boy! This is exactly what I want to play!"
Unity is sort of vaguely adequate in the same way Flash was vaguely adequate in its heyday: It gets the job done in a sort of clunky fashion, but everyone will be happy to drop it just as soon as something better comes along.
That doesn't strike me as a strong IPO candidate.
Speaking of which, I hear Zynga is almost back to their IPO price...
Re: (Score:3)
Welp (Score:2)
I guess their goes my plans to make a kid friendly game called "Eat the Ramen" that uploads to the server camera videos to track your mouth movements using AI as the chewing mechanic and the GPS to make the shining sun or moon in the correct time and place in the background behind the bowl based on your exact location as an AR effect.
Hopefully that 3rd party ad API that paid me a lot of money from a suitcase to use them will be trustworthy enough to not show Porn ads or capture my game data every time you f
Re: (Score:2)
Unity runs its own ad network. They ask about your age the first time each app shows you ads. Each app assigns you an advertiser ID. If you remove the app then that ID is no longer stored on your device, and if you install it again they'll ask again and generate a new ID.
It's a damn shame.... (Score:1)
...that they can't monetize me as much as they'd like to. Thank you, Apple, and fuck you Unity.
Intellectual Property (Score:2)
Re: Intellectual Property (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If you canâ(TM)t debug your own code, are you really a Developer?
Can God write code so complex that he cannot himself debug it? ... something something burrito