Apple To Give Employees Paid Time Off To Vote In US Election (bloomberg.com) 131
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Apple told U.S. employees they can take as many as four hours off with pay on Election Day to vote or volunteer at a polling place. The policy applies to retail employees and hourly workers and is similar to moves made by other companies, including Twitter and Uber. It was announced in a memo to Apple employees seen by Bloomberg News. Election Day is Nov. 3. "For retail team members and hourly workers across the company, if you're scheduled to work this Election Day, we'll be providing up to four hours of paid time off if you need it to get to the polls," Deirdre O'Brien, Apple's senior vice president of retail and people, told staff. "If they choose, our teams can also use this time to volunteer as an election worker at one of your local polling stations."
why a tuesday? (Score:5, Insightful)
why is it on a weekday in the first place?
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Americans don't get many days off by default and therefor value those days more than Europeans. Putting the election on a weekend might lead to an even lower voter turnout.
Re:why a tuesday? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It was not always so.
Prior to election "reforms" about a century back, voter turnout was 90%+.
After states instituted their "reforms", voter engagement, voter turnout, and election competitiveness gradually declined to current levels.
Oh, and it was possible to form a new political party without getting government permission.
Details in _Why America Stopped Voting_, by Mark L. Kornbluh. http://www.worldcat.org/search... [worldcat.org]
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Lower than having to take one of their days off which may or may not be granted or may or may not result in lost income if hourly?
Are you high?
Re:why a tuesday? (Score:5, Informative)
To reply to myself since I looked into this deeper:
It turns out that out of the countries which keep statistics on on voter turnout as a percentage of possible legal voters, the USA ranks somewhere in the lowest percentile, and typically it's ahead of only Switzerland (which has direct democracy meaning that who is running the country isn't really relevant).
Every other country with a higher voter turnout either votes on weekends or mandates legal time off to vote.
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Lower than having to take one of their days off
Who takes a day off to vote? Either go early in the morning, when the polling places first open, or go after work when the polls are open later. In my state the polls are open from 7 AM until 8 PM. If you can't find 30 minutes to take time to vote, you're just trying to find excuses.
And yes, voting turnout would probably be lower because people would whine they have to take time off from their busy weekend schedule to vote. We're Americans. We'll always fin
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Who takes a day off to vote?
No one, which is why you have one of the lowest voter turnouts in the western democratic world.
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Lower than having to take one of their days off which may or may not be granted or may or may not result in lost income if hourly?
Are you high?
Why would they "have to take the day off"? Why would an employer require employees to take the day off, 8 hours, to vote? Is it not possible they could vote before heading in to work? Could they not vote after? Could they not vote during lunch? Could they not be granted, as explained in TFA right above your post, the option to go and vote during work hours without lost income?
And of course, to follow up on my original point, would an employee rather spend time on a Tuesday voting or on a Saturday/Sunday vot
Re: why a tuesday? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a legal way of disenfranchising the working poor who tend to work shifts that don't align with voting hours, don't have paid time off, probably work 2 jobs and, even if they could take out some of their limited free time to vote, still dotn have enough time to wait in the lines caused by strategically closing polling places to suppress turnout of a specific demographic.
Working poor (Score:2)
No, you got it wrong.
"Sure Fred, you can take off a couple of hours to vote for a Democrat. Let me just add your name to this list next time we need to lay people off..."
Re: Working poor (Score:2)
No. Its "sure, you can take time off (to do whatever). Just don't expect your job to be here when you get back."
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No, it is more subtle than that, which is the point. If there is work to be done the boss is most unlikely to fire you for voting. But when layoffs are needed, who is he going to choose?
You need that crap job, so you want to keep in good with the boss. Stay on his good list. So you do not vote, just in case it might offend him.
Self censorship can be far more powerful than overt censorship.
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What do other companies do in the USA?
Dock people's pay if they go out to vote?
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Thanks!
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PS: Over here in Europe we vote on Sundays...
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"why is it on a weekday in the first place?"
On Sundays, Republicans go to church.
But seriously, I don't get it either. I live in a country where voting is mandatory and every school, preschool and other communal building have voting booths, if you don't live in the sticks, you can walk to one.
I usually have 1 or no people before me in the actual voting room inside (alphabetic) I have never seen any queuing like in the US in my life. Costs me 10 Minutes with the walking.
The only reason I can imagine is voter
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Better to look at it the other way around: Why is election day not a holiday?
(Spoiler: Because the US is the clunky primitive dinosaur of democracies and is not as democratic as many of today's other democratic countries. See also: Electoral college.)
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why is it on a weekday in the first place?
Do you seriously expect government employees to come to work on a weekend? An election needs more people behind the scenes than just the retirees who tick off names on the register out front.
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Yes. Yes I do. All the essential workers have to work decades of weekends. Sorry you feel special. A ton of federal employees also work most weekends. TSA and border patrol come to mind first.
So clearly it's perfectly acceptable to have government employees working the weekends so that we can vote to keep our country moving. Doesn't seem like to much to ask for.
Historical reasons, modern solutions (Score:5, Informative)
Historically, the easiest time for people to vote was on a weekday, and esp. a Tuesday. Wednesday was market day, so they were likely to be in town (not many miles away on a farm) then, but too busy. So Tuesday or Thursday was easiest. Sunday was right out (gotta be in my small town church) and Saturday was just another work-day. So, come to town early and spend the night.
The more modern solution is that most states have polls open somewhere from a week to a month before election day. So you pop in and vote whenever. Or vote by mail.
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Actually I think your reply is better than mine, though we disagree on some of the historical details. Now I want to check the stats on rural voters in the 18th century...
But I never get any mod points so I can't mod you up.
Why politicize elections? (Score:3, Informative)
It's hard not to wonder if you [redback] were just playing innocent with your FP question about "Why are the US elections on Tuesdays?" The answer is quite well known, but judging by the responses I looked over, it appears that the ignorance of "Slashdot 2020" is quite sincere. And profound. And someone even gave you an "Insightful" mod point for that squandered FP?
There is NO secret here. When they set the date for the election they had clear reasons and they wrote about them and the reasons are well known
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Because historically, the weekend wasn't any more special than the weekday, except for Sunday. Not working on one day of the weekend is a relatively new idea.
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That's only voting day. Doesn't the US have advance voting days? Or even mail in voting? (Unlike some people, not all mail-in voters are Democrat, and in fact it's actually evenly split between the parties so it actually helps no one).
I've never voted on voting day anymore as my polling place is usually quite inconvenient to get to. Instead I take advantage of the advance polls - either on the days they're open (which often include weekends), or at the polling offic
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:why a tuesday? (Score:4, Insightful)
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That's not true.
https://rstudio-pubs-static.s3... [amazonaws.com]
Awesome! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Election Day should be a national holiday.
Fine with me, as long as we replace and not add. Maybe we could replace the one where we celebrate labor unions by not working.
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)
Americans already have a raw deal when it comes to free days. Vacation time is on the lowest end of the spectrum, with the majority of employees (64%) having between 5 and 14 days of vacation after working for one year, compared to the *minimum* requirement in the EU of 20 days (with several EU countries including the Nordic having a minimum requirement of 25 days).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/n... [forbes.com]
Wouldn't it be nice if American employers were in fact forced to treat their employees as humans rather than spreadsheets? After all, if the President himself only works 50% shouldn't his subordinates have the same benefits?
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Re: Awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Cough, cough [soylentnews.org].
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Re: Awesome! (Score:1)
50%? So are you counting you in a broken car with no wheels at full throttle sliding down a slope half the time and being stuck the other half, as you "driving" 50% of the time? ;)
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Were coming up on August, the traditional month many Germans take off.
Ha ha! Joke's on them!
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Election Day should be a national holiday.
Fine with me, as long as we replace and not add. Maybe we could replace the one where we celebrate labor unions by not working.
Yeah but there's only one of those and not working is kind of the point of a holiday to begin wth. How, about replacing one of the many holidays where people honour America's favourite imaginary friend?
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Re: Awesome! (Score:2)
It's a holiday in Victoria. We call it Melbourne Cup Day.
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Mail in voting? No fraud possible of there
https://www.wsj.com/articles/h... [wsj.com]
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/ne... [fox5atlanta.com]
https://www.brookings.edu/poli... [brookings.edu]
https://www.ktva.com/story/377... [ktva.com]
https://wbckfm.com/20-of-mail-... [wbckfm.com]
If you're too lazy to go to a voting booth once every 2 years then maybe you don't deserve to vote.
Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Informative)
Mail in voting? No fraud possible of there
https://www.wsj.com/articles/h... [wsj.com]
That's an opinion piece about something Carter said 15 years ago. Carter now supports [cartercenter.org] vote by mail wholeheartedly.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/ne... [fox5atlanta.com]
That article has nothing to do with vote by mail. It's about a cat that received a voter registration form from some third party, not the government.
https://www.brookings.edu/poli... [brookings.edu]
LOL, that article says things like "There is no evidence that mail ballots increase electoral fraud." and "According to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, there is no evidence that mail balloting increases electoral fraud". What is it you're trying to argue again?
https://www.ktva.com/story/377... [ktva.com]
That article is about outdated voter rolls. It doesn't mention one thing about vote by mail fraud.
https://wbckfm.com/20-of-mail-... [wbckfm.com]
Actually about vote by mail fraud. Of course, all of the fraudulent ballots in that race were rejected, and charges were filed against the perpetrators.
If you're too lazy to go to a voting booth once every 2 years then maybe you don't deserve to vote.
I guess my elderly mother doesn't deserve to vote. She's just too lazy.
Almost 3 out of 4 Americans support vote by mail, including Republicans by 2 to 1. It's coming whether you like it or not, and the actual data regarding vote by mail fraud says it's exceedingly rare. The most comprehensive source of data about voter fraud that I've been able to find is the one maintained by The Heritage Foundation. [heritage.org] Why don't you take a look at it and tell us what you find about the prevalence of vote by mail fraud.
Or maybe you have a better source than Heritage? Because posting a bunch of anecdotes, most of which have nothing to do with vote by mail (and one that says the opposite of what you're arguing) doesn't make much of an argument.
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I guess it's a good thing I didn't say "there's no risk with mail-in voting" then. I said the data shows that vote by mail fraud is exceedingly rare, and I provided a source. Let's take a look at what that source says about the states that have universal vote by mail:
Colorado. [heritage.org] Number of fraudulent votes attempted by mail since enacting universal vote by mail? Three. Three out of millions of ballots cast.
Hawaii. [heritage.org] Number of fraudulent votes attempted by mail? Zero.
Oregon. [heritage.org] Number of fraudulent vot
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Re: Awesome! (Score:2)
Even if it isnâ(TM)t a national day, employers should be penalised if they arenâ(TM)t providing time to allow their employees to votes. The same should be put in place for any education establishments targeting people of voting age.
Informally true already in most office jobs (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's it enough though? Last time there were huge queues because there were not enough polling stations, and it looks like Trump is trying to block postal votes so even more people will have to go do it in person.
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Hopefully Apple is giving everybody the whole day off!
Well, if the voting experience is anything like this [npr.org], then they will need it. Inexcusable -- and not an accident.
Re: Informally true already in most office jobs (Score:2)
But are you paid during that long lunch?
Huh, weird. (Score:4, Interesting)
In the country where I live we get the whole day off by law.
Didn't realize that wasn't a thing in the US.
Seems impractical trying to squeeze the elections into whatever time people have off work.
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You say bug, the corporate overlords say feature.
Re: Huh, weird. (Score:1)
But why would they need it?
It's not like the ballot rag would contain anyone they did not pre-pick/-approve... or anyone being mentally free of propaganda enough to choose someone else than they are being partisaned to...
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Yeah I wish I could snap my fingers and make it a national holiday for all but the most essential of businesses and even those be required to make wide accommodations in scheduling so that employees get at least some decent chunk of time during the day to vote.
Even more so I wish there was some magic where we could make everyone vote. I suspect that our elections would take on very different character if we actually got near 100% participation on election day and it's pretty terrible that the last two pres
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Oh, I forgot to mention, public transportation is also free here, starting with the night before election day.
I think that if you got the day off, but only received payment for the day if you showed proof of having voted, that might incentivize people better.
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That's a great idea. +1, Insightful
Problem isn't turnout (Score:2)
Just like capitalism is contingent on b
Strange to point it out (Score:1)
I'm a bit surprised that you need formal permission for something like this, rather than a quick "Hey boss, I'm gonna duck out for a bit and do my duty as a citizen engaged in the direction and well-being of this (once) great nation".
Or is that the standard and Apple is simply looking for a few brownie points to deflect from their on-going litigation headlines?
Re:Strange to point it out (Score:4, Informative)
This is paid time off rather than unpaid leave, different things.
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we are talking about 0.5-4 hours of time every four years
Some people are living so close to the financial edge that they might choose a couple of extra hours of pay (in lieu of unpaid time off to vote). An argument could be made that these people tend to prefer the Democrat party and a loss of pay would affect them inordinately.
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That is pretty much how it works. You either come in late, leave early, or take a long early/late lunch.
Everyone expects it on election day. Nobody freaks out that someone is not at their desks slaving away on time.
If you are working retail or shift work the supervisor coordinates so that there is a minimum staff available while people take turns going out to vote.
Many people vote by mail. Many others get an absentee ballot (vote-by-mail-ballot) and drop it off at the collection box at the polling place
LOL. (Score:3)
In Belgium, they made voting compulsory because employers would not let their employees out to go voting...
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Re: LOL. (Score:2)
What we need is a "None Of The Above" pseudo party. With no members and only a single rule: If NOTA wins, *all* of the offered candidates/parties in that election, including their proxies, proteges, mentors, sponsors, PAC members, etc become forever ineligible to be elected, by law, by punishement of death on any attempt to get in anyway ,directly or via any technicality or excuse.
Re: LOL. (Score:2)
In forgot: The purpose is to be able to show you want to vote, but don't want to vote for any of )them/.
So you can't be wrongly called a "non-voter".
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I was thinking the same thing. I doubt there is anyone that isn't me that is really believes in things the same way I do. This is true for everyone. Hence no political party will meet all your needs and no individual politician will either.
How many people would always just vote NOTA because they have three pet issues that can't fit under one umbrella?
Pretty sure that's true for a lot of people. For instance, if you are pro choice, pro LBQT(etc), pro diversity but also pro guns and anti-immigration, where do
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What about pulling the rug out from under the election laws that support only two parties? That way, we could get someone to run on a pro choice, pro LGBTQ, pro diversity, pro guns and anti-immigration ticket. Although I'd like to see the mental gymnastics that one would have to engage in to be pro diversity and anti-immigration at the same time. Vote for the person whose head has exploded.
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I'm not against student visas or even work visas but it really has to be narrow in scope and not what is happening now. I'm all for going after companies abusing both the immigrants and the system itself. An e-verify system in place to hire only properly vetted people would be ideal. If the company can't comply with this, the people in charge need to be held accountable.
None of that is ever really going to happen though. We let our companies do whatever they want and rarely ever hold anyone of importance ac
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Huge amount of effort is put in to ensure as many people are registered to vote and get out to vote as possible.
Electoral boundaries are set by an independent body
Polling place opening hours (Score:1)
How long are polling places open in the US? In the UK you can vote in person from 7am until 10pm. Most people should be able to vote before or after work.
I don't see how getting time off work would be particularly helpful- I have to vote at a designated polling place, allocated by registered address. I can leave my house, vote and return home in less than 20 minutes. With the exception of a few people who live near their places of work getting time off during the day would require them to commute to and fro
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But in Republican areas, there were no lines and no waits.
The Georgia Republican governor was the Secretary of State when he ran. In other words, he oversaw his own election. That is how corrupt things have become here.
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If the other side, which you clearly want to see win, weren't so busy shitting on the constitution themselves, in their own way, I'd have more sympathy.
They are both evil and up to no good, they just pick different things to let people be free to do, and that which they choose to dictatorially control in detail.
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The more you hear about US elections the more you wonder how they got to this point.
In the last Canadian federal election I walked five minutes down the street to the polling place, said hello to the woman at the door directing people, walked up to the table for my last initial, was handed a ballot, filled it out, dropped it in the box, and done. I don't recall ever waiting for more than one or two people ahead of me.
State by state, often 24+ hours. (Score:2)
The solutions put in place by a lot of states aren't to mandate time off for a specific day, but to either allow (or require) mail in voting, or to leave polling places at numerous times in the month leading up to the election. Paid time off is a great solution (and a better solution), but just leaving the polling places open means that people can go whenever their day off is.
After moving from the US to Canada... (Score:1)
Under the Canada Elections Act, employees who are eligible to vote are entitled to three consecutive hours of time off to vote without a reduction in pay. The three consecutive hours must fall within the open hours of local polling stations.
Fancy that!
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Keep in mind, in the US, salaried employees can also take three consecutive hours of to vote without a reduction in pay. There may be other consequences, but not a reduction in pay.
Now if only they could actually vote. (Score:2)
Not just make a cross at one of the hand full of exchangable figurehead lobbyists the corporate oligarchy already pre-picked and voted in from 300 million peope.
(Of course picking the one their flavor of partisan propaganda told them to.)
Aside from how fucked-up it is, that it is news(!) that people get time to "vote".
(Is there a reason it isn't just on Sundays, where nobody works, in the US? Or that it is legal to not let somebody go vote, if he happens to work on a Sunday?)
So sad (Score:1)
The Democrats running another bad candidate, this time senile meat puppet who dances to big corporation / endless war masters. Wasted opportunity yet again.
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I would prefer the USA waged war against another country instead of waging war against its own citizens.
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oppression of minorities at home is part of the war machine system
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Wasted opportunity yet again.
It's not a waste from the perspective of the DNC, which exists to do the will of wealthy donors. There are real differences between the parties, but they lie in the realm of morality policing, not in whether they want The People to have power.
Trump supporters (Score:1)
Back in the 80's.... (Score:3)
...when I was working construction, I had a boss who said to in the 1988 election. "I'm giving you guys an hour off to go vote, but if you vote for Dukakis do it on your own fucking time."
I can't imagine that going over well today.
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Since no one knows how you vote, I'm sure if you swap Trump for Dukakis, it would be reported on CNN as a progressive company.
Legally must allow it (Score:2)
not paid... but allowed without being fired. How you voted is private but you CAN BE LEGALLY FIRED if you disclose how you voted. A bumper sticker for example. You are not protected; not that it matters because you keep it secret so some other excuse isn't Trumped up.
There goes the millenial vote (Score:2, Funny)
People will take Monday off and go on a 4 day weekend getaway.
Why not Saturday (Score:4, Interesting)
In Australia we have always voted on Saturday.
There are usually never long lines. Girl guides sell cookies.
Votes are counted that evening on pencil marked ballot papers then sent for regional storage in case a recount is needed.
Your name is marked off on a book so the AEC can check for double voting.
It all really quite civilised.
Say what? (Score:2)
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Didn't the 2016 polls say Clinton 2/3rds *probability* to win and Trump 1/3 *probability* to win? If you rolled a D6 that means Trump wins on 5,6, Clinton on 1,2,3,4. People are just generally bad at math/probability and they look at something like "Trump 35% chance of winning" and interpret that as Trump winning 35% of the vote or something, and get surprised when he won, which they really shouldn't have. It isn't really surprising to roll 5 or 6 on a dice.
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Didn't the 2016 polls say Clinton 2/3rds *probability* to win and Trump 1/3 *probability* to win? If you rolled a D6 that means Trump wins on 5,6, Clinton on 1,2,3,4. People are just generally bad at math/probability and they look at something like "Trump 35% chance of winning" and interpret that as Trump winning 35% of the vote or something, and get surprised when he won, which they really shouldn't have. It isn't really surprising to roll 5 or 6 on a dice.
to equate an election to a dice roll compresses so many things to a narrow approximate... God didn't' roll dice to determine who won, probabilities were only there as a way to couch our uncertainties. Trump was going to win, but people couldn't see what was really going to due to bias, incomplete information, and partisanship (super bias)
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Yeah, I was just using the dice example as a metaphor to boil down how close it actually was. Hillary was never that certain to win, according to the polls. The uncertainty was already there in the figures, but like I said people are bad with interpreting probabilities. If each election could be called with a 2/3rds vs 1/3rd certainty then they need to *expect* to be wrong every third election or so.
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Hillary did herself in with her attitude and her deplorables comment. Also there is a sizable never hillary camp. Biden doesn't have half that crap that Hillary did.
I don't like Biden but I could at least sort of maybe kind of see voting for him. I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump last time.
Everyone should vote Libertarian just to screw with the establishment. Let Trump and Biden both lose. The worst it could possibly result in is another 4 years of stalemate, but that's better then the past 12 years.
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Didn't the 2016 polls say Clinton 2/3rds *probability* to win and Trump 1/3 *probability* to win?
At the time, mathematically this just said to me the polls had no idea what they were doing.
You can't get a much bigger statistical sampling than an election, over 100 million data points. There is no inaccuracy in that. The problem is the sample polling, which should zero in on this fact to within a few percent, but is not.
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Re: Just a reminder (Score:2)
They touched it in the pride, with a failed life and a failed country, resulting in an ugly festering inferiority complex.
Gotta compensate by blaming some scapegoat. That is what the orange Hitler knock-off is for.
We've been there about 100 years ago, after losing two wars, here in Germany. ;)
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Because it is going to take the better part of a day to find a mailbox that the hobos aren't prying open for checks and credit cards.
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"The policy applies to retail employees and hourly workers and is similar to moves made by other companies"
The majority (but not all) of their engineering may be in California, but they have retail stores all over the country