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China Ready To Target Apple, Qualcomm, Cisco and Boeing in Retaliation Against US' Huawei Ban (globaltimes.cn) 111

An anonymous reader shares a report: China is ready to take a series of countermeasures against a US plan to block shipments of semiconductors to Chinese telecom firm Huawei, including putting US companies on an "unreliable entity list," launching investigations and imposing restrictions on US companies such as Apple and suspending the purchase of Boeing airplanes, a source close to the Chinese government told the Global Times. The Trump administration on Friday moved to block shipments of semiconductors to Huawei from global chipmakers. The US Commerce Department said it was amending an export rule and the Entity List to "strategically target Huawei's acquisition of semiconductors that are the direct product of certain US software and technology," according to a statement on its website. "China will take forceful countermeasures to protect its own legitimate rights," if the US moves forward with the plan to bar essential suppliers of chips, including Taiwan-based TSMC, from selling chips to the Chinese tech giant, the source told the Global Times in an exclusive interview.
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China Ready To Target Apple, Qualcomm, Cisco and Boeing in Retaliation Against US' Huawei Ban

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  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:19PM (#60064448)
    Can't stand Trump but China is playing right into his and Robert Lighthizer's hands. China's acts of retribution or even threats thereof will only serve to accelerate the diversification of manufacturing capacity outside of China.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:58PM (#60064610) Homepage Journal

      Every hardware vendor has clear and strong incentives to bake backdoors into their hardware. The only difference is to whom they are loyal.

      And it is never you.

    • by Junta ( 36770 )

      I do think it's good for companies to want to diversify out of China and I think that incentive is good for the world in general.

      However, it probably won't do American manufacturing industry much good, as there is incentive to stay as far away from this mess as possible in either country.

      Manufacturing apart from China and US may improve, as might the robustness of supply chain for a lot of 'China only' components nowadays.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Unless the economic damage results in Trump losing the election and his successor reverses it.

      What can they do though? Ignoring it isn't an option. All they can do is choose the manner of retribution, directing the pain where they think it will have the desired effect.

    • More local manufacturing isn't a bad thing, they can play into that hand all they want. Politically, it doesn't matter much. It's not like China has good will to burn with... well, anyone in the US. But especially not Trump voters. What boosts der Fuhrer isn't so much what China does, as what he himself does. Especially now, he's got to take whatever actions possible that might somehow take the focus off the lack of coordinated response (how you say - leadership?) to the pandemic. Look at the laughable rush

      • by Cyberax ( 705495 )

        More local manufacturing isn't a bad thing, they can play into that hand all they want. Politically, it doesn't matter much. It's not like China has good will to burn with... well, anyone in the US.

        The threat is China pushing against the US interests in Asia (including India and Malaysia) and Africa. They can rightfully point at the US being an unreliable and erratic partner, with a president who would abuse you for minor electoral gains. Meanwhile, China offers steady and strong leadership that won't throw you under the bus if you keep your part of the deal.

        Remember, with all the talk about Huawei backdoors there hasn't been any public information about them.

    • by znrt ( 2424692 )

      you do realize that not only does that work both ways, but that china has already the upper hand here, both in infrastructure, influence and size of market? that is incidentally the actual reason trumpmurica is pushing this desperate (and rather suicidal) trade war.

    • USA threat and action to stop semi conductor to do business with Huawei will bring china to make/steal/develop/whatever their own semi conductor industry to be independent. Then they will simply laugh at the US threat and sell to the rest of the world.
    • <rhetoric>And why do you think it is the case</rhetoric>
    • It's Trump who is playing into the hand of Xi Jinping.

      China wants to become the next world leader, but this is not possible for now because the Chinese economy is far too dependent on the US. By pushing Trump to sanction China, Chinese companies will be forced to innovate. This will diversify China's economy and allow China to cut its dependence on the US.

      • by sd4f ( 1891894 )

        China isn't ready yet! Trump acting now, is because any delay just plays into China's favour. Currently, they're still sufficiently corrupt with nepotism and cronyism, that innovation largely falls on how to counterfeit and cheat your way through things. Scandals such as bridges collapsing because there's no steel reinforcing in the concrete, or adding melamine in milk, they're grander examples of the same sort of behaviour that's easy to get away with lower down. It's similar to why Chernobyl ultimately ha

    • And equally the US's behaviour is causing concern in all other countries who have heavy reliance on the USA. Trump has shown the USA is willing to use trade wars and economic blackmail against other nations
  • Both sides lose ... BIG.

    • by bodog ( 231448 )

      BIGLY. tftfy.

    • Well people on both sides lose. The leaders on both sides do not lose as much.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      But in the previous state of things, with China cornering the market on all manufacturing, we still lose. And worse. They clearly want to use their economic power to achieve political hegemony. Their neighbors would bow to them. Taiwan would be taken over.

      That relationship was never sustainable. America cannot produce nothing and trade purely on promises. Not all of it needs to return, but critical industry should.

      The cheap junk manufacturing can be performed in southeast Asia (Malaysia, Vietnam
      • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

        Yes but this is only part of the fight. We need to return tech labor to domestic sourcing.

    • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday May 15, 2020 @03:41PM (#60065126)

      Universal Rule of Economic Warfare. Both sides lose ... BIG.

      What you are failing to recognize is that we (the US) have been in an economic war for decades with the Chinese Communist Party. We were already losing, big. The only thing new here is that we are just starting to fight back.

      • Universal Rule of Economic Warfare. Both sides lose ... BIG.

        What you are failing to recognize is that we (the US) have been in an economic war for decades with the Chinese Communist Party. We were already losing, big. The only thing new here is that we are just starting to fight back.

        Then America's companies have all been traitors because they are the ones that made China great again. Are you smoking Covid?

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          Universal Rule of Economic Warfare. Both sides lose ... BIG.

          What you are failing to recognize is that we (the US) have been in an economic war for decades with the Chinese Communist Party. We were already losing, big. The only thing new here is that we are just starting to fight back.

          Then America's companies have all been traitors because they are the ones that made China great again.

          Nope, its not that simple. Companies largely did what government and consumers told them to do. Government thought they could liberalize China through trade. Consumers made a Tragedy of the Commons mistake with respect to purchasing decisions. See this thread to avoid redundancy: https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]

    • 2018 U.S. exports to China [ustr.gov]: $179.3 billion
      2018 U.S. imports from China: $557.9 billion

      If there's a trade war, the person buying stuff just pays someone else to make it for them. The person selling stuff has to find a new customer. So if China and the U.S. get into a trade war, the U.S. lose $179.3 billion (China isn't even our biggest export market - Canada and Mexico are bigger), and has to find a new manufacturer who can produce $557.9 billion worth of goods. China OTOH loses $557.9 billion, and ha
      • by sd4f ( 1891894 )
        I think this is why the PRC are now aiming down on Australia, since I suspect the terms of trade there are the other way around; i.e. they're reliant on selling a lot to China (I read their exports to China are around 9% of GDP), all while China isn't really reliant on buying exclusively from Australia.
  • by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:31PM (#60064502) Homepage

    China will also put a lot of money into making things that it has, up to now, obtained from the USA. It might take a few years, but China's government set up (ie one party always in power) means that it does not have to do things to an electoral cycle.

    • They have been practicing an embrace and strangle policy for years. It isnâ(TM)t a surprise they would continue to do so.

      They entice businesses into the market and then develop on that ip.

      Look at trains who were required to train and develop Chinese infrastructure as a measure of selling in that country. China now has a local product and they compete globally using the knowledge they cop-opted. This philosophy has been practice for the last 10 years.

      Who cares they want to dissuade businesses now? They

    • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

      Yes but the US is a massive country with a giant labor pool and a wide diversity of natural resources. It is quite capable of maintaining a modern US lifecycle without actually needing to rely on the old world to do it. If more bodies are needed for some reason there are plenty in south america. China had no manufacturing prowess until we gave it to them.

      • by Cyberax ( 705495 )

        Yes but the US is a massive country with a giant labor pool and a wide diversity of natural resources.

        So was the USSR. It did not end well for them.

        • by Shaitan ( 22585 )

          They seem to be doing fine to me. New name. New dictator. Same wealthy criminal elite.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That started ages ago. China has some decent home grown CPUs now, decent operating systems, MCUs...

      Interestingly one of the motivations behind its own CPUs was distrust of US products.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:39PM (#60064536)
      Apple The company that hasnt had an edge in smartphones for nearly a decade. A number 2 player compared to Android that Huawei has already outpaced in features and performance with the Mate series.

      Apple has no edge except for earning 80% of the profit in the entire smartphone industry with just 10% of the worldwide market share.
    • Apple.

      THE company everyone else pretty much copied to get where they are today in the smartphone market.

      Not a fan boy, just pointing out who rolled with that idea before anyone else did.

      • Right. I guess everyone copied the idea of large screen phone from Apple.

      • Really? I remember when the iPhone first came out thinking: 'who the hell is going to buy a smartphone that isn't even 3G capable?'. Well, it turns out I was a bit wrong about that but from my POV Apple has been playing catch-up since day 1. Their stuff is a bit more polished than most but not exactly cutting edge.

    • Don't worry about Boring. It will be surely bailed out, undeservingly, because of Covid-19.

  • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Friday May 15, 2020 @01:42PM (#60064550)

    China Ready To Target Apple, Qualcomm, Cisco

    Good, that will speed up the process of having these companies develop second sourcing for their manufacturing.

    • Qualcomm and Apple have their chips made in Taiwan which is not China. For a while, Apple used Samsung which is based in Korea which would be the mostly likely alternate to TSMC for Qualcomm too at the moment. While TSMC has announced plans for a US fab, at best it will being production in 2023. For product assembly, Apple uses contract manufacturing some of which is based in China and some which is not. Again, Taiwan is the most likely site.

      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Qualcomm and Apple have their chips made in Taiwan which is not China.

        I wrote second "sourcing for their manufacturing", manufacturing not parts.

        Apple uses contract manufacturing some of which is based in China and some which is not. Again, Taiwan is the most likely site.

        While US based manufacturing would be the great, manufacturing in an allied country is still a vast improvement.

        Also what size is that "some"? There is (was ?) some US manufacturing of very low volume products like the Mac Pro (the very expensive desktops). Was Taiwan based manufacturing similarly small scale?

        • Qualcomm’s entire product is chip design. They don’t fab the chips nor assemble smart phones. In fact at times they are not involved with decisions beyond the CPU cores like SoC packaging. Apple’s chips are crucial parts for their products. No chips, no products as Apple is highly unlikely to use other companies when it comes to CPUs for their mobile devices. Again these are made in Taiwan.

          I do not know the specific allocation of Apple manufacturing as I have no inside information. What I

      • Qualcomm and Apple have their chips made in Taiwan which is not China.

        China disagrees.

        Oh, I see what you did there. Yeah, this is gonna be g o o d, let me get my popcorn.

        • The thing is that if China invades Taiwan, they risk destroying the fabs in the war. And then they gained nothing, if they could build those factories they already would have.

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            The thing is that if China invades Taiwan, they risk destroying the fabs in the war. And then they gained nothing, if they could build those factories they already would have.

            Nothing gained except the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) having supremacy and having removed Chinese people who oppose the CCP from public view.

            If they don't have the ability to build such fabs they likely might have it in the near future given industrial espionage. And in a post-invasion scenario they would have access to the people with the hands on experience. Such experience is important, and that is why there were so many forced technology transfers, forced partnerships, so US and EU companies could

            • The thing is that if China invades Taiwan, they risk destroying the fabs in the war. And then they gained nothing, if they could build those factories they already would have.

              Nothing gained except the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) having supremacy and having removed Chinese people who oppose the CCP from public view.

              With an invasion of Taiwan, China would have then removed people who posed no threat, eliminated a source of investment, and in the process motivated much of the world to act militarily and economically against it, not to mention removing a 1984 bogeyman to rally the home troops. Absolutely nothing for China to gain, and lots to lose. China already holds sway in Taiwan via economic pressure, and China realizes that the current status quo allows it to effectively conquer Taiwan in many ways without the afo

              • With an invasion of Taiwan, China would have then removed people who posed no threat, eliminated a source of investment, ...

                All secondary to the perception of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the CCP's ability to achieve it goals.

                ... and in the process motivated much of the world to act militarily and economically against it, ...

                LOL. We will likely do nothing when the CCP is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and Europeans due to their handling of coronavirus. Denial, misleading the world, only restricting internal travel, downplaying disease while quietly buying and hoarding PPE, shipping faulty PPE to foreigners, etc. Estimates are that the death toll outside of China is probably three times that of wh

                • With an invasion of Taiwan, China would have then removed people who posed no threat, eliminated a source of investment, ...

                  All secondary to the perception of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the CCP's ability to achieve it goals.

                  Exactly, China needs Taiwan as an Orwellian bogeyman specifically for the party to control and shape man-on-the-street sentiment. The Taiwanese bogeyman allows the party to be perceived as the defender of the nation against the bogeyman enemy. That's the real benefit Taiwan gives to China right now. It's all about perception.

                  ... and in the process motivated much of the world to act militarily and economically against it, ...

                  LOL. We will likely do nothing when the CCP is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and Europeans due to their handling of coronavirus. ... And you expect America and Europe to do something when the deaths are Taiwanese?

                  No, the US doesn't care a bit about Taiwanese lives. However, the US does care hugely about the US economy. Several large Silicon Valley companies would collapse overnight if the T

                  • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                    With an invasion of Taiwan, China would have then removed people who posed no threat, eliminated a source of investment, ...

                    All secondary to the perception of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the CCP's ability to achieve it goals.

                    Exactly, China needs Taiwan as an Orwellian bogeyman specifically for the party to control and shape man-on-the-street sentiment. The Taiwanese bogeyman allows the party to be perceived as the defender of the nation against the bogeyman enemy. That's the real benefit Taiwan gives to China right now. It's all about perception.

                    Taiwan is no bogeyman for the CCP. It is an embarrassment, a bad example of Chinese people not submitting to the CCP. Taiwan's only threat to the CCP is being an example of successful defiance.

                    ... and in the process motivated much of the world to act militarily and economically against it, ...

                    LOL. We will likely do nothing when the CCP is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and Europeans due to their handling of coronavirus. ... And you expect America and Europe to do something when the deaths are Taiwanese?

                    No, the US doesn't care a bit about Taiwanese lives. However, the US does care hugely about the US economy. Several large Silicon Valley companies would collapse overnight if the Taiwanese fabs are destroyed. That's the reason why the US defended Kuwait, and it'll be the reason it will be very careful with Taiwan. Sailing warships near the Spratlys is saber rattling. However, sailing warships through the Taiwan Strait is a reminder to China that the US is willing to defend American companies like Apple, AMD, and Nvidia.

                    That is a straw man, those fabs can be destroyed at any time with a missile strike. There is no defense of those fabs if China chooses to get aggressive. The US might be able to stop an invasion but it cannot save those fabs. So your hypothesis regarding US motivations is quite fantastical.

                    • LOL. We will likely do nothing when the CCP is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and Europeans due to their handling of coronavirus. ... And you expect America and Europe to do something when the deaths are Taiwanese?

                      No, the US doesn't care a bit about Taiwanese lives. However, the US does care hugely about the US economy. Several large Silicon Valley companies would collapse overnight if the Taiwanese fabs are destroyed. That's the reason why the US defended Kuwait, and it'll be the reason it will be very careful with Taiwan. Sailing warships near the Spratlys is saber rattling. However, sailing warships through the Taiwan Strait is a reminder to China that the US is willing to defend American companies like Apple, AMD, and Nvidia.

                      That is a straw man, those fabs can be destroyed at any time with a missile strike. There is no defense of those fabs if China chooses to get aggressive. The US might be able to stop an invasion but it cannot save those fabs. So your hypothesis regarding US motivations is quite fantastical.

                      Yes, the fabs can absolutely be destroyed at any time. That, combined with the current American dependence on those fabs, is exactly why the US is motivated to defend those fabs, just like the Kuwaiti oil fields in the 90's. In this current age of massive arsenals of long-range missiles, no country can truly defend any major city or installation solely based on military might. So, the US cannot militarily defend those fabs, which is why the US warships regularly sail through the Taiwan Strait, to make su

                    • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                      Yes, the fabs can absolutely be destroyed at any time. That, combined with the current American dependence on those fabs, is exactly why the US is motivated to defend those fabs ...

                      Contradiction. If they can be destroyed at any time they can't be defended. They are just too fragile, if hostilities erupt they are gone even. Period.

                      ... just like the Kuwaiti oil fields in the 90's.

                      Bad analogy. Oil well fires can be put out and the wells rebuilt extremely quickly. Unlike fabs.

                      ... to make sure the Chinese are constantly reminded of American interests ...

                      Interests that will most likely *not* be defended with American blood. Again, last time we were in a post-war isolationist mood we send outranged telegrams and imposed economic sanctions when one asian nation conquered another asian nation. We most likely not fig

  • suspending the purchase of Boeing airplanes

    Is anyone buying boeing planes right now at all?
    Between the max-8 and covid i doubt there's much demand, and plenty of planes entering the used market as airlines go bust.

    • Well, you see there's the rub: China is about the only place left that is going to have much need for new aircraft for a couple years, in part because they have a political dimension to their expansion plans.

      I personally think some of the built Max-8s will never fly revenue miles because they have sat too long already, if China refuses to buy any that would up the risks and size of that scenario considerably.
    • Short BA stock.
  • My first two projectors were Panasonic, made in Japan. 10 years between both.

    My last panasonic, which lasted 5 years and then blew up hard, was made in China.

    (yeah looks like 5 years / 10,000 hrs is all I get from them)

    My new Epson (Japanese company, right?) Hecho en Phillipinas! Epson dumped China, but sadly still dosn't Make in Japan anymore. I do regret that.

    The world became too dependent on China.

    WTF is wrong with Build Local, Sell Global? It worked before!

    I"m so thoroughly amazed at how so many pe

    • Maybe globalization was good, but "free trade" was a Feudalist lie?

    • by yooy ( 1146753 )
      "Fuck you lot. Gen X's grandfathers fought WWII and liberated Europe" Oh wow. Your grandfather was Russian?
    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      The world became too dependent on China.

      "Comparative advantage" conflicts with "don't put all your eggs in one basket". Some could argue they are simply better capitalists, or that the gov't manipulates markets and citizens to gain an unfair advantage.

      China's cross-province migrant workers are more or less slave laborors because they don't have a lot of other options. For example, the gov't prevents many from moving closer to work. They can't politically organize because the authoritarian state squashes a

  • Who’s decoupling from whom? As US reevaluates its relationship with China, Asian giant's export data show increasing regional integration https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/... [asiatimes.com]
  • At this point, threatening to suspend purchases of new Boeing airplanes is not even a threat. It's happening now all over the world already. But it sure can help China's nascent civil aircraft manufacturing. 10 years from now China, Russia, and their allies will be purchasing only domestically produced aircraft.

  • Everything is going to shit anyway, so I'm just going to enjoy the fireworks.

  • Now has the the manpower. money, and technology to outperform the USA ...

    the USA is a a has been of the global economy

    • Maybe the first and last, but not the middle. When the dollar goes over 120 they're going to need to manipulate the currency way beyond what they've done in the past. And if you think the Fed will hand out an olive branch of trillion dollar swap lines to the Chinese to relieve the dollar shortage, you're dreaming. For an economy based almost entirely based on fraud they're going to have a tough time keeping things afloat. That dollar-denominated debt is going to be a source of pain for a long time, and

  • Careful what you wish for.
  • certain US software and technology,

    Most of that software/technologie is derived not from primarily US research, most of those are the products of research done all round the world. And let's not forget, most of those machines etc, are actually created in..... China....

  • The Chinese government is used to getting its way with the rest of the world. Most countries are short-sighted and make what appear to be lucrative deals with Chinese companies and seem oblivious to the downside of doing so. China wants to dominate the world by waging economic warfare on us all which is much less expensive and works much better than military attacks. It's about time for people to quit looking at short time gains and take the long view as China does. Economic retaliation is the only thing

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