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Desktops (Apple) Operating Systems Software iMac Technology

Steam Ends Mac Support For SteamVR (theverge.com) 66

Posted by BeauHD from the rest-in-peace dept.
Steam will no longer support SteamVR on macOS. The Verge reports: Steam introduced SteamVR for Apple computers way back in the mists of time -- 2017's Worldwide Developers Conference. As The Verge wrote then: "Valve has been working with Apple on this since last summer, which shows a high level of technical and business confidence in Apple's VR efforts." The move was announced in a short post on SteamVR's news page, laid out in a single sentence: "SteamVR has ended macOS support so our team can focus on Windows and Linux." Mac users will still have some access to the feature, however, via legacy builds. One door closes, another will surely open. Right?
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Steam Ends Mac Support For SteamVR More

Steam Ends Mac Support For SteamVR

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  • The PC's VR platform always had more users, didn't it?

  • OpenGL, Vulkan, and Metal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sanosuke001 ( 640243 ) on Friday May 01, 2020 @08:30PM (#60013266)

    Well, Apple discontinuing support for OpenGL, not really supporting Vulkan, and pushing their own Metal API doesn't help interoperability. Apple only has themselves to blame. Having OpenGL/Vulkan and DirectX to support is probably enough effort and now Apple wants their own thing. They don't have enough of a market share on the gaming side of things to push around game companies and expect to keep what little support they had.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GrahamJ ( 241784 )

      This suggests that Apple is interested in VR but is doing the wrong things. I don’t believe that’s true. They’re focusing their efforts on AR.

      • Re:OpenGL, Vulkan, and Metal (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sanosuke001 ( 640243 ) on Friday May 01, 2020 @09:53PM (#60013410)

        No, it just means they don't care about gaming. Because, if they did, they wouldn't be killing the only widely used technology they did support in favor of something that only works on Apple machines which most game developers have no desire to use.

        • As an addition; not saying they don't care about AR as they probably do. But, VR (and extension gaming) would be a lot easier to keep and entice to their platform if they didn't kill OpenGL support. AR does not inherently need Metal to function, it would have worked fine with OpenGL or Vulkan. But Valve probably does need OpenGL or Vulkan to make things worthwhile for their VR platform.

          • Why though, it's as silly as gaming on Linux, it's neat but it's cutting against the grain. If you use a Mac or Linux desktop you can buy a dedicated gaming PC as easily as buying an Xbox, PS4, or Switch.

            I love my iMac, I do have some steam games, but being able to RUN games is not even half the battle. Will I have obscure bugs that the porting team's tiny QA dept doesn't catch, will performance be shit because of differences in optimization effort. Will the game EVER get an optimization pass? Will my g

            • Agreed. I donâ(TM)t want to lug around a gaming laptop so I can do everything with one machine. Iâ(TM)m happy to develop on a MBP and simrace on a PC.

            • With Proton on Steam Linux, you can play a constantly increasing amount of even AAA games meant for Windows with not many problems. There are many reasons to run Linux, and many reasons to not have a dedicated Windows box just for games, or even any Windows at all. My household has 4 PCs, couple of them Core2Duo-era (but still used for occasional Borderlands 2 or other gaming), 2 are new and capable boxes used much for gaming, but all have only Linux installed with Steam+Proton for non-native games. We gave

              • increasing amount .... not many problems

                Hardly the same as 100% and no platform related problems.

                I'll continue to have a Win 10 box for gaming, because I don't want to make "Will the game I want to run (and not a substitute or older version) work immediately?" a guessing game or excercise in configuration wizardry. My play time is for playing, not adjusting an emulation or API translation layer.

          • I agree it would have been ideal if they supported those APIs; I just think the lack of support does not necessarily indicate a lack of interest in gaming.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by vbdasc ( 146051 )

          It seems that they're no longer interested in developing the Mac line, unless they somehow manage to turn the Mac ecosystem into a walled garden, like their smaller devices.

          • They sell a lot more iPads and iPods than desktops. And the iPhone? Forget about it.

            From their POV unless it translates into a hand held device it's a destraction.

            They would be more wise to build cross tools on Windows and just dump the Mac at this point. It's always been a loser.

            And I say this on my Mac pro 2013.

          • It seems that they're no longer interested in developing the Mac line, unless they somehow manage to turn the Mac ecosystem into a walled garden, like their smaller devices.

            Youâ(TM)re willfully blind, Hater.

              Apple has poured more development effort into the Mac line in the past two or three years than almost in the previous ten years.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Flat 6 ( 6220052 )

            It seems that they're no longer interested in developing the Mac line, unless they somehow manage to turn the Mac ecosystem into a walled garden, like their smaller devices.

            Yes and it looks like it will probably will get worse for the mac ecosystem because Apple is about to switch from Intel based processors to their very own Ax processor that is used in their iPads and iPhones. I love Apple products (though not all), and I have been using them for 35+ years but the way things have been going is a little ridiculous when it comes to the Mac. They are severely overpriced for the hardware that you get, have no decent GPU support, and now are going to move away from X86. As a ma

        • Apple Arcade suggests they care about gaming to some extent, though not on Mac yet. If we assume Mac support is on the horizon I think itâ(TM)s clear their decisions arenâ(TM)t about lack of interest in gaming but in providing gaming and AR as services.

    • It's basically this and killing 32bit apps..
      Catalina is an iOS, it's not OS X.

      Even Mojave makes running stuff like VMware a chore.

      • Hmmm. Did I not read here a couple of months ago about some popular Linux distros dropping 32 bit support ?

          What now?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Chaset ( 552418 )

          The difference with Linux is that 32bit OS is being dropped by some distributions, but 64bit Linux OS/Distros still support installation of 32bit libraries and execution of 32bit binaries. (some more painfully than others.)

          Apple is dropping support of 32bit libs and execution of 32bit binaries ("This application is not optimized for your mac" => will not run in Catalina). Apps will simply stop working, and you can't just apt-get your 32bit libs so your old apps will run.

          That's the big difference, and it

    • That and killing off about half of the Mac Steam library with the removal of 32bit support...

  • Apple has (as it always does) made a decision about what it wants to push, and what it's decided is that AR is more important than VR. Augmented Reality is where Apple things the action is/will be, and that's going to suck the oxygen out of VR efforts on its platform, even when Apple isn't actually doing anything against it. Steam saw the writing on the wall

    (and, has VR adoption really been THAT high on the other platforms?)

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • That's one thing that bugs me about their business model: it tends to make people who use their products incredibly pretentious. I had an Apple fanboy talking down to me about the build quality of a Google Pixel, I didn't have the heart to tell him that both companies use Foxconn as a manufacturer... I don't really care what tech people use or why but FFS don't make a piece of glass and silicon an extension of yourself, that's just fucking weird and pathetic.

  • That's because (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alpha227 ( 6191068 ) on Friday May 01, 2020 @08:34PM (#60013282)
    VR is stupid, it was Google Glass 2.0. It isn't any better in any practical way than it was in the 80s or 90s. Until someone invents an actual holodeck, extreme nerds need only apply. Same for AR - it's easier to do most of that stuff the old fashioned way.

    • Oh look someone who hasn't used a VR headset in 20 years...

      VR is in a process of exponential growth with close to 10 million devices on the market and difficulty supplying them by multiple companies since November.

      Oh and it's fun. Like REALLY fun. Saying it hasn't changed since the 80s is either ignorance or satire, but since your modded insightful not funny I'll go with ignorant. Hell saying it hasn't changed in the past year is equally ignorant.

      • People who haven't tried VR recently are very quick to talk out of their asshole...you're absolutely right, done well a VR game can be incredibly immersive and fun! I don't typically enjoy racing games but VR racing? On a fucking hoverbike? Yes please, that shit gives chills when I get in a flow state at 400+ mph :D

        • Alien Isolation was on sale on steam for $2 last week. I've played it before years ago and it was an okay game then. Since then the "MotherVR" mod has been released and so I figured for $2 I'll give it a go in VR.

          I've never hit the escape button mid game and walked away from a PC saying "NNOOOOPPPPEE, nope, nope, nope, nope!" before. Came back an hour later to find the game was still at the menu screen.

          • I would never play that game in VR, even if it was designed for it from the ground up. Living inside a survival horror movie is not my idea of an entertaining afternoon.

            I can only imagine what degree of VR sickness might be introduced by that, since it's not native.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

              Alien: Isolation is definitely not the most comfortable game when it comes to motion sickness, but it is not the worst either. I definitely wouldn't recommend this to people who are new to VR, but if they show they can handle artificial locomotion with comfort options turned off, then no problem.

              Saying it is not native is only half true. The game had support for VR, but it didn't make it to release. The mod re-enabled it and made it usable.

              And VR horror is very entertaining... for others :)

    • VR is stupid

      Lightsabers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • Have you walked Richie's Plank on an Oculus Quest?

      I've had about 40 people try it (we brought it to holiday gatherings last year), 80% could do it, some sitting on the ground slowly pushing forward. 20% cower in fear and take off the headset. It feels real.

      The Nat Geo content is fun. Moss is Mario Brothers but with a mouse in 3D.

      VR isn't something you do for a long period of time (too disconcerting). Maybe 20-30 minutes. They call the games "experiences" on purpose.

      Want a workout? The Thrill of the Fi

  • population (Score:2, Troll)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 )
    I'm sure the 7 people who seriously play VR games on their mac, worldwide, will be saddened by this important news from the computer gaming world.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by GrahamJ ( 241784 )

      SteamVR for Mac was never about playing games on the Mac, it was about it being a VR development platform.

      • Even as a VR development platform, GPU power is a requirement of VR, and something that the vast majority of Macs lack.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by GrahamJ ( 241784 )

          Absolutely, but the SteamVR announcement was made at the same time as the new Mac Pro reveal so that was the target machine. Other Macs can use Thunderbolt to mount external GPUs but I doubt many do that.

  • Another door or window opens? No. Not from Apple or Steam, anyway. Anyone wanting to play Team Fortress 2 or Portal (I think) are SOL if they update their Macs to the latest OS X. 64bit ONLY means the games will no longer run, and Valve has made no promises to update.

    Yes, I know about boot camp. Yes, it's possible to run the games that way, but that's at least 5-6 minutes to get everything going again, per reboot.

  • Immunity (Score:3)

    by thegreatbob ( 693104 ) on Friday May 01, 2020 @09:43PM (#60013386) Journal
    My PowerMac G4 is completely immune to this.
  • I'd put money on this being related to an announcement coming up at WWDC this year. Whether it's macOS eGPU support being discontinued, ARM Macs that Steam VR can't support, or even Apple releasing their own VR SDK. (Maybe Apple pulled a Motorola Rokr on Valve...)

  • Any modern linux distro you'd care to name runs just fine (and natively) on Apple hardware and typically boots to a working linux OS in under 10 seconds, even on commodity SSDs. It's often a snappier experience than MacOS on the same hardware. Assuming adequate video horsepower and compatability,there is easily a way if the will is there.

  • Sad, but unsuprising (Score:3)

    by bb_matt ( 5705262 ) on Saturday May 02, 2020 @02:50AM (#60013802)

    I guess I can only speak anecdotally on the subject, but for me, my Mac is my primary OS for getting stuff done and I have a windows box for gaming.

    I wish it wasn't this way. There are a number of games that'll run on Mac, but often, the performance isn't as good.

    As for VR, I wouldn't even attempt it on my Mac, despite having a MacPro5.1 with more than enough power to drive it.

    Then again, I haven't attempted it on my windows box yet, not quite having convinced myself that parting with enough money to get a VR headset worth having, is worth having.

    I guess Apple has never really been serious about Mac as a gaming platform and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the small uptick in games produced for Mac over the years, keeps dwindling.

    Kudos to Valve for continuing support for Linux - this is a GOOD thing. I can see Linux becoming a very viable gaming platform - heck, it already is - it just needs someone like Valve to really push it.

    • I'm not sure what Mac is serious about anymore. They seem to be moving away from x86, they don't support the largest discrete and only high performance GPU manufacturer ruling them out of high performance markets, ... I honestly think they are betting the farm in high end displays and hoping the A/V customers they've ticked off repeatedly over the years sustain their high end. They are great for coding if you're making iOS apps.

      Their laptops are great but I'm beginning to wonder if anyone other than Skrille

    • not quite having convinced myself that parting with enough money to get a VR headset worth having, is worth having.

      As a matter of interest have you tried it recently? I had the same opinion as you did until I was bored last summer holiday in Crete waiting for a flight. The girls were cloth shopping and I saw a VR lab and I'd never been in before. After an hour of that... well I had the amazon order placed before I stepped on my flight home.

      I tried the original Oculus DK1 when it was released, but it wasn't until my experience last August that I thought "oh hells yeah" all this for less than the cost of a gaming monitor.

  • They would have added metal support for indirect draw count extensions years ago.

  • He's betting the company on VR (Valve Index is magically nearly always on the top of the best seller list and Half Life Alyx being the only new title from Valve in eons) and VR sucks, requires a monster PC and a shit ton of real estate to play in.

    There are so many requirements that this is not going to to turn in to William Gibson's wet dreams until it's an implant and a very advanced version at that; which may well never happen.

    Valve was going to be, and was heralded as, the savior from the Windows 10 nigh

  • Apple doesn't care about gaming PERIOD. If they did they would have consumer grade macs with Nvidia GPU's and would have adopted Direct X. In the past when I see Apple make some kind of statement about embracing gaming, I know its going no where. Apple may make some quality computers but computers that are capable of gaming, NO.

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