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Apple Idle

Coffee Shop Refuses an Order Until the Customer Removes His AirPods (zdnet.com) 418

At a Chicago coffee shop, "the cashier wouldn't take my order until I took off my AirPod!" complained a patron named Kevin. "And it was only in one ear! Am I the asshole here?"

ZDNet's "Technically Incorrect" column shares the answer he got from the "Salty Waitress" etiquette columnist at a foodie site called The Takeout: She replied, in part: "I am trying hard here to give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you were in the middle of a very important phone call/podcast/guitar riff that could not be paused for the 30 or so seconds it takes to order a cup of coffee. In which case, you very politely step aside to conclude your business and then order your coffee...."

The Salty Waitress was undeterred in her resistance. She explained that if Kevin wanted to embrace technology, he could push off to Starbucks or Dunkin', order via an app and pick up his coffee without the burden of any human interaction. She then warmed to her theme, mustering a fine froth: "Because that's the thing, sweetie pie. THE CASHIER IS A HUMAN BEING! JUST LIKE YOU! Their role in your life may be temporary and functional, but they've got feelings and hopes and dreams and aspirations. And like you (probably) they would like your full and undivided attention while you ask them to perform a service for you."

She explained that this is true for all service workers and should, indeed, work both ways.

I was glad she said that, as I've had two visits to AT&T stores where the salespeople were wearing a single AirPod and listening to their own music.

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Coffee Shop Refuses an Order Until the Customer Removes His AirPods

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  • by nipslan ( 2604693 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:41AM (#59684050)
    It's possible he wasn't listening to anything. In that case ALL of this is in the head of the cashier. The assumption here is a little crazy here. He should pause whatever to deal with the transaction but it's not clear from the details here if he did or didn't do that.
    • by Rhone ( 220519 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:01AM (#59684260) Homepage

      Yeah, this is ridiculous. I listen to a lot of podcasts, so I have an earbud in one ear most of the time I’m in public. I pause it before approaching a register or whatever, but usually don’t pull the bud out, and it hasn’t been a problem.

      Some people just really get off on judging others.

      • by TheDarkMaster ( 1292526 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:29AM (#59684346)
        You need an exercise in seeing the situation through the eyes of those on the other side. If you see someone with earbuds in their ears, how would you know that they are on or off? How would you know if the subject is actually paying attention to what you are saying?
        • by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:45AM (#59684404)

          How would you know the person actually isn't hard of hearing and needs assistive devices to help them place the order. Stop judging and do your job. If they clearly can't hear you and you have something important to ask, ask them to remove the earbuds.

          • by TheDarkMaster ( 1292526 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:11AM (#59684500)
            You know that true hearing aids are easy to identify, right? And it is not a matter of "judgment"... it is a matter of education, of social manners. Something that has been missing lately because everyone is taught to think only of themselves at all costs.
          • If you are using an earbud for hearing assistance. Feel free to point it out to the cashier. Just like how a blind person may ask for braille menu or ask for it to read for them. If you are using earbuds for hearing assistance, then you are not that concerned on letting people know you are hard of hearing, as most hearing aids, and other tools for that job are also hard to see on the person.

               

        • by ixneme ( 1838374 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:17AM (#59684520)

          How would you know if the subject is actually paying attention to what you are saying?

          How about saying "How can I help you?" If they respond appropriately then maybe it's a sign it is safe to proceed with the transaction.

        • by jrminter ( 1123885 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:50AM (#59684630)
          Beware of sweeping generalizations. I have hearing loss and wear hearing aids in my ears, so I am actually trying to respect the people I interact with by compensating for my hearing loss. My "corner case" aside, I agree with the cashier that customers should treat those who serve them with consideration by giving them their undivided attention while in a line, especially when other people are waiting.
      • by butchersong ( 1222796 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @12:07PM (#59685350)
        Here are the rules: Take your hat off when going indoors, dress in a way that shows appropriate levels of respect to the place your at -easy for men just keep a damn button-up shirt in your car, do not wear your airpods when walking around an establishment or speaking with someone -only when sitting down and enjoying your coffee, if you need to take a phone call get up whenever possible and step away from others, look people in the eye when speaking with them and make an effort to remember their names. Welcome to manhood.
        • Yep. Simply being polite in both directions. My favorite is when I'm talking to someone and they get a phone call, answer it and start talking. Not just get info and hang up, chatting. I turn around and walk off to find something else to do.

          Amazingly, these people seem offended I didn't want to stand and wait for them to attend their more-important-than-now chat.
    • by Krakadoom ( 1407635 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:02AM (#59684264)

      Regardless of whether or not he was listening to something at the time, it's rude to keep essentially a headset on while you talk to someone in "real life". Just as it's rude to have your phone conversation directly in someones face. So yes, the guy ordering the coffee is most definitely the asshole here, as he says.

      • by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:58AM (#59684466)

        Regardless of whether or not he was listening to something at the time, it's rude to keep essentially a headset on while you talk to someone in "real life". Just as it's rude to have your phone conversation directly in someones face. So yes, the guy ordering the coffee is most definitely the asshole here, as he says.

        And yet people with mobile phone headsets do that all the time. As long as they can hear me I don't really care about whether they have some thingamabob in one of their ears or not and anybody who gets incandescent with rage over that is just looking for something to get angry over so that they can get their daily adrenaline fix. If that's what they're after they can read the Daily Mail while consuming their breakfast cereal and and get angry over some made up story about a police officer who refused to rescue a drowning child because of health and safety rules. I generally draw the line only at headset wearers who pause a conversation or transaction to answer a phone call. Anybody who does that forfeits their place in the line in favour of the next person behind them and if they don't like it they can join the back of the queue once they finish their phone call.

        • Anybody who does that forfeits their place in the line in favour of the next person behind them and if they don't like it they can join the back of the queue once they finish their phone call.

          Which in a busy restaurant should be the default behavior for anyone who can't keep up, it's just common courtesy. Like knowing what you want to buy by reading the menu before you reach the counter.

      • by DRJlaw ( 946416 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:23AM (#59684542)

        Regardless of whether or not he was listening to something at the time, it's rude to keep essentially a headset on while you talk to someone in "real life". Just as it's rude to have your phone conversation directly in someones face. So yes, the guy ordering the coffee is most definitely the asshole here, as he says

        It appears that you've never ordered at the counter from a fast food joint with a drivethrough. Because I have never once seen the employee remove their headset while taking my order, and have frequently had them taking drive through orders at the same time as they take mine.

        • by skam240 ( 789197 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @10:21AM (#59684768)

          You mean the device they need to wear to do their job? It is rude of them to take an order while serving you but outside of that you're comparing two very different things here.

        • We're not talking about interrupting music/podcasts/whatever. We're talking about efficiency: You getting your product faster. Would you prefer waiting longer in the drive thru or at the counter because of the decrease in efficiency? There could even be an economic impact (lost jobs, etc.)

      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:23AM (#59684546)

        Bingo.

        I'll go to tell or ask my wife something, and I'll just dead stop and look at her until she notices I quit talking and look up from her screen. She'll say "and?" and I'll reply with "I'm not continuing until I have your attention.

        She claims she can look at her phone and still hear me, but I'll ask her to repeat back what I said and she only can repeat part of it. I don't think people realize just how bad they are at multi-tasking, especially when it's in the realm of tech gadget and another person at the same time.

    • by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:06AM (#59684278)
      If you have something in your ears when interacting with someone else (in person), you're signaling to them that what they have to say isn't important to you. It doesn't matter whether or not you're listening to something else, it looks like you are and so the other person can only assume that you don't think they are worth your attention. For good reason - there's something in your ears and that means you can't hear anything else very well.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 )

      It's possible he wasn't listening to anything. In that case ALL of this is in the head of the cashier. The assumption here is a little crazy here. He should pause whatever to deal with the transaction but it's not clear from the details here if he did or didn't do that.

      While I understand that the younger generation of up-and-coming Professional Attention Whores on social media can tend to shine a narcissistic spotlight on the problem of grandstanding for fucks sake, I highly doubt we would be sitting here discussing this story if said AirPod wearing customer was not acting like damn near every other earbud wearing hipster.

      Go ahead. Go up to the next 10 people wearing earbuds and see if they give you their undivided attention. Better yet, do it in a hipster coffee shop t

      • So what you are saying is that you have no evidence to support your position, you're just knocking down a strawman.

    • by TimothyHollins ( 4720957 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:17AM (#59684316)

      It's a matter of courtesy, not of music booming in your ears. When I talk to someone I remove my headset, when I walk inside I take off my hat, when I talk to someone I look them in the eyes (for a time, not the creepy intense stare), and when someone talks to me I look at them as well. I could skip all of these from a practical perspective, but I consider it discourteous to do so. I also avoid burping in someone's face should that need clarification.

  • Etiquette (Score:4, Funny)

    by SomeoneFromBelgium ( 3420851 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:43AM (#59684058)

    Aaaah. Etiquette. And technology related.
    This is what /. is all about. The impact of techology on my daily life.
    Finally an article on where the rubber hits the road!

    (to be clear: I actually did enjoy this article but a bit of sarcasm is so very /., no?)

  • Good! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mr.morbo ( 6346556 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:43AM (#59684060)

    Headphone/earbud-wearing fuckwits are a pain in the ass. The ones who are on the phone doubly so, because they're trying to juggle their phone call and their ordering, in the gaps between the other. It takes longer, and it's disgustingly rude.

    If you want to talk to a human right in front of you, take out your fucking ear plugs and give them your full attention for a moment.

    • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      I just stare them until they realise their transaction isn't going to finish until they look at me and interact with me.

      Fuck 'em. Don't start a conversation with me, until your previous conversation is finished.

    • Absolutely. Kids these days have no manners.

  • by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:43AM (#59684062) Journal

    If you order something, putting your phone away and removing headphones should not be something you even question.

    That being said, it has happened to me as well that my mind was so wrapped up in something I barely managed to interact. I just don't go bitching about it afterward like it was someone else's fault.

    An exception I make, though, is when they want to see my ticket on public transportation. Since that is in essence a request to prove that I'm not an antisocial dillhole (or criminal even), I don't feel very obliged to cooperate beyond the strictly necessary. I know it sucks for the person in question, but THEY are interrupting ME, not vice versa.

    • Re:Basic etiquette (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 03, 2020 @07:24AM (#59684158)

      An exception I make, though, is when they want to see my ticket on public transportation. Since that is in essence a request to prove that I'm not an antisocial dillhole (or criminal even), I don't feel very obliged to cooperate beyond the strictly necessary. I know it sucks for the person in question, but THEY are interrupting ME, not vice versa.

      They aren't asking you to prove that you're not an antisocial dillhole. It's their job to make sure you paid your fare and you're going out of your way to make their job worse. Congratulations on proving that you are, in fact, an antisocial dillhole.

      • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

        Yes, and I don't appreciate the fact that they thus insinuate I may not be paying for a service I use.

      • Re:Basic etiquette (Score:4, Insightful)

        by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:54AM (#59684440) Journal

        No they are treating like a criminal, guilty until proven innocent. Its like the box stores that check your receipts on the way out. Once in a while I still go into a wallmart when I need something right away. Its insulting to be treated like a shoplifting suspect when leaving the store. Its one of the reasons I rarely shop there. I tell that person you be sure to let your manager know this exchange right here is insulting to me the customer and its EXACTLY why Amazon gets the bulk of my business.

        I don't know if they do. The fact they are being paid to treat me the customer badly does not change the fact they are doing so. Making it a job that nobody wants to do and expressing my displeasure is about the only means other than voting with the wallet (which I am doing as much as possible) to express my displeasure and maybe effect change.

        I have had them ask for ID while using a CC and not purching any controlled substances at Wally World too - that are not even allowed to do so per their merchant agreements with my card issuer. What was I suppose to do just bend over and take it? Or make them get the damn manger?, just walk away? I have done both. The manager of course was not thrilled and wanted to see my ID too, but I reminder her of the merchant agreement and she knew I was right and dropped it at that point. "our policy is to id all our.." me "well should call citi bank customer support and report your policy?" "ok ring him up"

        I try not go around being a dick, but if you treat me like a dick, that tells me you want to be treated like a dick too

  • Meh... If the guy was having a phone call on his earpods or if he was clearly distracted by music playing on them, then I would tend to agree with the waitress. But if he just had the thing in his ear with the music paused, what's the big deal? Personally I take these things out when talking to someone, like removing sunglasses so people can at least look you in the eye. It's the polite thing to do... but is not removing them really so impolite that you feel you have to refuse the guy service?
  • Welll... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MitchDev ( 2526834 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:45AM (#59684068)

    Yes Kevin, you are the asshole

  • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:51AM (#59684076)

    In line at the grocery store and someone's holding out their phone in front of them so everyone around can hear their conversation, using one hand to slowly put one item at a time into the bag, as if they had all the time in the world and they were the only ones around.

    You won't die in the few seconds it takes to remove the overpriced gadgets and place your order or pay for your bill. If it's that much of an inconvenience to give them your full attention for those few seconds, you probably have other issues.

    • I see the same thing happening a lot in my city. The man or woman arrives pushing everyone to get to the queue first, and when it comes to him he or she behaves as if he has all the time in the world and does not have a lot of people waiting in line.
      • by froggyjojodaddy ( 5025059 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @07:44AM (#59684208)
        You know something we've all observed but now that I've stopped and paid attention, I cannot unsee it?

        You're at the grocery store and the person in front of you have a full cart. They've emptied their cart and while the cashier is ringing them through, they've struck up a good conversation. Not so bad so far right? Except, when it comes time to pay, THAT'S when they decide to search through their massive purse to find their tiny little wallet to pull out their credit card to pay. All the while saying something like, "Oh my gawd, I can never find anything in here. Just give me a second, so sorry, bear with me" and so on.

        Sometimes I wanna ask them, "In all the time you were just standing in line, it never occurred to you to proactively get your credit card ready? No? You figured THIS one instance was the one time you'd magically reach into that cavern you call a purse and just find your wallet and card in one smooth motion?"
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I recently saw this, only this old Lady went full Russian nesting doll, starting with this HUGE purse, closer to the size of a reusable shopping bag, which she dug through until she withdrew a more average size purse, which she dug through, to pull out an oversize wallet, which had her cash, then dug through to finally find a coin purse to dig out probably 17 cents to finally finish the transaction. I was equal parts enraged and impressed.
  • Satire mistaken for news, not the first time, not the last time.

  • by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @06:59AM (#59684088)

    New technology should not supersede good manners.

    If you are being attended, pay attention to the person you are interacting with. Wearing airpods (or simultaneously talk on the phone, unfortunately very often) is a clear sign of not caring at all about the other person. Heck, even checking your phone is a clear sign of disrespect and lack of interest.

    We have a serious problem as a society, since this is more and more common because gadgets suck our attention. Kudos to the cashier.

    • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      I'd support a stop-work action on the part of the cashier.

      You want to prioritise a phone call/text over dealing with the cashier? Go to the back of the queue.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:Fuck that. (Score:5, Informative)

      by sabbede ( 2678435 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:16AM (#59684308)
      And if you won't extend basic courtesies to the people you interact with, don't expect any of them to want your business. Or your presence. Or to pull you from a burning vehicle. Or turn up at your funeral.
      • by eth1 ( 94901 )

        And if you won't extend basic courtesies to the people you interact with, don't expect any of them to want your business. Or your presence. Or to pull you from a burning vehicle. Or turn up at your funeral.

        Exactly... read a few stories on notalwaysright.com. It's only the big corporate chain businesses that put up with assholes, because there's usually some policy from disconnected management saying they have to. Any business where the actual owner is present on premises, or the managers have actual authority, will kick those assholes out very quickly.

  • There are bluetooth jammers, use them.

    • I agree. The customers should be listening to the indie-folk music being piped in anyway. It is really edgy and cool and non-threatening.

    • by clive27 ( 889511 )
      It's a federal crime to jam radio signals. They do monitor radio signals for jamming and it's very easy to triangulate the position. And if you don't have high quality jammer, your signal power will affect other bandwidth as well. AT&T and Sprint monitor their precious bandwidth (2.3GHz and 2.5GHz) and will sue you out of the Earth if you jam their bandwidth for malicious purposes.
  • by bluegutang ( 2814641 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @07:47AM (#59684218)

    Anyone remember those signs?

    A business can impose any restriction it likes (except for discrimination by race, sex, etc) on who it chooses to serve. If you don't like it, the proper remedy is to go somewhere else.

  • Whether or not the actions taken by the cashier were right, it does ask what the new etiquette should be, going forward?

    If I have my ear phone in, I’ll often take one out, as a form of courtesy, but this article does make me wonder whether taking my headphone out completely would be better?

    Annoyances exist on both side of the interaction. Sometimes it is the waitress more interested in talking to her colleague, than paying attention to the customer. In others it is the customer treating the staff no b

    • Losing earbuds is a problem for many of us. It can be awkward to back them away. Others of us may be alert for time sensitive calls.

      A sign at a hipster coffee house would be one thing, and a courteous _invitation_ to remove technology would be one matter. But demanding social interaction with a customer who has communicated their desire for the product you sell is unwise business. That's one of the cases where yes, one should leave a factual review and contact the manager or the corporate office of a franch

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:25AM (#59684326)
    The rule of reciprocity [wikipedia.org] would seem to apply here. Would you be offended if the cashier taking your order had AirPods on while you were telling them what you wanted? If so, then their being offended that you have AirPods on while placing your order is justified.
  • by scourfish ( 573542 ) <scourfish@yahoCOWo.com minus herbivore> on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:34AM (#59684358)
    The customer should have been more considerate of others in line by not being distracted and taking longer to order.

    The cashier's actions were also inappropriate with regards to how a customer should be treated.
  • by Thruen ( 753567 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @08:42AM (#59684392)

    shares the answer he got from the "Salty Waitress" etiquette columnist

    Everyone that isn't a self-centered asshole knows it's good etiquette to remove their headphones when interacting with another person. While they could be off and not distracting you, they don't know that, and you're expecting their attention while they're left wondering if you're giving yours. I can sort of understand why an etiquette columnist and a tech junkie may not see eye to eye on this, but the etiquette columnist isn't telling you what's appealing to other tech junkies, you already know that. You wanted to know what the average person will think, and she told you. That you disagree and decided to rant on the internet about disagreeing with her only reinforces the answer: Yes, you are the asshole. On the AT&T comment, you always have a right to act as the barista did and ask them to remove the headphone or choose not to deal with them. And yes, they'd be the asshole for refusing and demanding you deal with them anyway.

  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @09:20AM (#59684534)

    I find it unlikely they used the presence of an ear-piece as the sole reason for refusal of service.
    My guess is he was on the phone.

    Here, if you are standing line to order or receive your food and are actively talking on your phone, they will skip you and go the the next person in line behind you.

    They even have signs up telling you of this ahead of time.

    They're not about to try and have a conversation with you when you can't be bothered to pay attention in the first place.
    Nor do I blame them. Having to ask you something more than once because you're on the phone with someone else is a waste of their time ( and everyone else's )

    People get pissy when they get skipped, until every single person in line points out the sign and tells them to STFU.

  • I disagree (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Monday February 03, 2020 @11:51AM (#59685260) Homepage

    Pausing your music, podcast, or whatever: yes, basic good manners. Essential.

    Removing your ear widgets: no, not relevant. You're just going to wind up juggling them along with your money and order, making things worse rather than better.

    As long as you hear and interact with the person you're speaking with, it doesn't matter what's on your ears. Anyway, those might be hearing aids.

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