Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Businesses EU Apple Hardware

Apple Fights EU Call For Common Smartphone Charger, Claiming Consumer Harm (venturebeat.com) 178

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
Apple on Thursday pushed back against EU lawmakers' call for a common charger, warning the move could hamper innovation, create a mountain of electronic waste and irk consumers. From a report: Apple's comments came a week after lawmakers at the European Parliament called for a common charger for all mobile phones and amended a draft law to say the ability to work with common chargers would be an essential requirement for radio equipment in the bloc. A move to a common charger would affect Apple more than any other company as its iPhones and most of its products are powered by its Lightning cable, whereas Android devices are powered by USB-C connectors. "We believe regulation that forces conformity across the type of connector built into all smartphones stifles innovation rather than encouraging it, and would harm consumers in Europe and the economy as a whole," Apple said in a statement.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple Fights EU Call For Common Smartphone Charger, Claiming Consumer Harm More

Apple Fights EU Call For Common Smartphone Charger, Claiming Consumer Harm

Comments Filter:

  • Yes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Thursday January 23, 2020 @03:59PM (#59648870)
    How dare you harm our monopoly position over our patented chargers we sell at $50 apiece with your socialist "one charger for all" laws.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      An objection from Apple is the best endorsement this policy could have.

    • How dare you harm our monopoly position over our patented chargers we sell at $50 apiece with your socialist "one charger for all" laws.

      Is Apple forcing anyone to buy their phones? Of course not. So, nobody is being forced to buy overpriced and proprietary chargers from Apple either. If Apple's business practices bother you then don't buy their stuff. It's simple really.

      But don't let the truth interfere with your expression of outrage.

      • You are missing the point. Apples business practices are harming consumers. This law will stop that. Unlike the US, the EU actually gives a shit more about the people than the corporation. Which is why they don't buy US meat.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • "(The EU has a perfect right to protect both consumers and the environment through laws like this. Apple can go fuck themselves if, to make a few extra bucks, they want to add tens of millions of unnecessary chargers and cables to landfills over the next few years.)"

          This has me thinking about all of the doom and gloom predictions of how the planet is going to run out of petroleum. If we are facing such a crisis, shouldn't we be REDUCING the amount of plastic waste being produced. If anything, it see

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by sjames ( 1099 )

            Or the "top dogs" figure we have enough to last through next quarter and that's about as far ahead as corporate executives think these days.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        You must have the memory of a goldfish. It's not just Apple vs. not Apple.

        Before the EU first spoke on this subject, we couldn't even seem to get manufacturers to agree on a single standard for phones even across different models of their own damned phones. Each model had it's own special snowflake charger.

        Then the EU said "Just use USB you jackasses!" And lo, the clouds parted, choirs sang and pretty much everyone but Apple went to a common standard. As a follow on, soon after, cars started offering standa

    • "You're not Trump, sir. It won't work."

      It seems, Apple plays the
      "You're harming consumers."
      "No, YOU are harming consumers!!"
      game.

      Problem is: This is not the USA. The EU has considerable incentive to tell Apple to fuck off by default.

    • I mean, it's an alternate form factor for USB. The cables are just as cheap as USB ones, and can use any USB charger. So I don't get the hate. The accessories are expensive, but that's a software issue more than a form-factor one.

      And as excited as I saw everyone was about USB-C, I think of it as half-way from microUSB to Lightning. It's by far my favorite adapter.

      If you really want, you talk about compulsory licensing of adapters for smartphone chargers.

  • Bullshit Apple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sit1963nz ( 934837 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:01PM (#59648878)
    If USB-C was not the way to go you would not have put it on the iPad Pro.

    What you are MORE scared of is loosing the income from the "Made for IOS" revenue scheme.

    With USB-C being a standard MORE people could make stuff for IOS devices and you would have no control over it.

    This is just the same fight as users / 3rd parties not being able to repair IOS devices , greater user lock in.

    And I say this as a Mac/IOS owner/user.
    • Apple has a habit of adopting newer connectors long before other companies. If they have to keep the same "old" USB-C or whatever is agreed upon for 2 or 3 years after a newer connector becomes available I can certainly see customers being annoyed and the state of the art in phone design flagging.

      • Re:Future ports are the issue (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:29PM (#59649038)

        USB-C is two years newer than Apple's lightning connector.

        I look forward to you arguing against Apple because customers are annoyed by not having state of the art connectors, because I'm sure you'll get right on that.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rednip ( 186217 )

          I just bought a pair of headphones with a USB-C power jack and a Raspberry Pi 4, neither of them can use Power Delivery protocol typically associated with that form and none of my USB-C power blocks work for them (both Apple and third party). When researching the problem (on the headphones, the raspberry pi issue was known within a week of release, I went with a POE hat), I found several warnings from people who claimed to have burnt out devices by plugging into the wrong charger.

          The USB-C world has been f

        • I am afraid you have it backwards. USB Type-C was finalized in August 2014 whereas Lightning was released on September 12 2012. And a finalized specification is still a ways away from a released product so Lightning effectively preceded Type-C by more then 2 years. It is all on Wikipedia - Type-C [wikipedia.org], Lightning [wikipedia.org].

      • Re:Future ports are the issue (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Computershack ( 1143409 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:36PM (#59649078)

        Apple has a habit of adopting newer connectors long before other companies. If they have to keep the same "old" USB-C or whatever is agreed upon for 2 or 3 years after a newer connector becomes available I can certainly see customers being annoyed and the state of the art in phone design flagging.

        If it was such a restrictive issue then why do none of the Android flagship phone makers have an issue with it?

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Guspaz ( 556486 )

          Because the EU's 2009 rules mandating phones support micro USB for charging were voluntary and had an expiry date. To be fair, it was a shit show before that, with every phone having a different charging connector, often proprietary. Imagine, however, if instead of a voluntary standard with a sunset clause, they had passed legally binding regulation requiring micro USB. Phone makers would have been prevented from moving to USB-C until the government got around to changing the regulation.

          The 2009 regulation

        • Not choosing sides, but for all we know Apple has some 1mm thick magic cable ready to come out in a year that is 100x faster. Devils advocate. I think we can all agree that the thinness of phones is one of their most desirable selling features. It's not inconceivable that a rollable or simply thinner phone will need a new connector.

    • I'll put on my devil's advocate hat and respond to each point.

      If USB-C was not the way to go you would not have put it on the iPad Pro.

      An iPad is not a phone, so I'm not sure how relevant this is as an example. The iPad Pro is a tablet computer and so is competing in a different space. Being a "pro" product it might be more fitting to use the USB-C connector to appeal to business users as opposed to the more consumer friendly Lightning cable. Apple likely did some market research and found that corporate users aren't going to buy Apple tablets to replace their Android tablets

  • Translation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by The Grim Reefer ( 1162755 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:06PM (#59648896)
    "We believe regulation that forces conformity across the type of connector built into all smartphones stifles our profits rather than growing them, and would harm Apple sales and licensing revenue in Europe and the economy as a whole," Apple said in a statement.

  • How often do new connections come out for phones and other devices? How is battery technology going to change and with that the energy requirements they have? Will a single charging standard support that? If the requirements get updated and need more power/different strategies will the governing body of the EU be fast enough to make that the new standard connector? What about other phones that don't have that new power requirement?

    EU would likely stifle the forward progress of battery technology and chargin

    • Is this post supposed to be sarcasm or something? Since the original iphone came out, apple has had 2 connectors (that I'm aware of). In the same time, almost every other smartphone has had 1 of 2 connectors.

      Furthmore, if there are advances in charging tech, guess what...those old lightning chargers won't be able to take advantage of it, so you'd still have to throw them away and get a newer one. So no difference in terms of waste if you have to throw out and replace a USB-C charger or a Lightning charger

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by saider ( 177166 )

        This is the reason we move TO usb, because before that every damn cell phone had their own charger with different size/shape connector. We collectively decide to say FUCK THAT and supported USB (first micro, now C) to eliminate all those other proprietary connectors....except for the apple proprietary connectors, of course.

        And this was done without any legislation. Why not just crowdsource this decision and let people choose with their wallets?

      • It wasn't "we" who decided it. It was the EU that got vendors to a table and told them that if they didn't standardize on one connector, the EU will standardize on one connector for them. Were it not for the government, we would still have dozens of random cords, connectors, and mishmashes of different pinouts, voltages, amperages, and other stuff. We might even have phone makers make cords and chargers with DRM chips so their phone only works with their cord, and their charger, with chargers and cords h

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fazig ( 2909523 )
      All the charging technology is already in the phones and batteries and has very little to do with the 'chargers'.

      The chargers they are talking about here are nothing other than power supply units that contain minimal technology. It's essentially a transformer that even Nikola Tesla already knew about, a couple of diodes to rectify that alternating current, some decoupling capacitors to pull the remaining AC components into ground and a voltage regulator so that the resulting direct current keeps steady.
      M

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tricorn ( 199664 )

        For higher power, it needs to be able to use multiple voltages, and it needs to monitor and limit the output current. Just using a transformer, bridge rectifier and a few capacitors is also not very efficient.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fazig ( 2909523 )
          Voltage regulators do a lot of what you say already. Arguably they're the most high-tech component in such a power supply.
          You add in a couple of DC-DC converters if you want multiple possible voltages. Phones and batteries already have them to keep the voltage provided by the battery constant regardless of the charge that remains. So they're probably not needed in the charger as everything that involves this can be solved on the phone and battery side, as it is already.

          Anyway, the standards aren't about

    • How often do new connections come out for phones and other devices?

      Every couple of years, USB consortium comes with a standard.
      - first manufacturer used a bunch of proprietary shit
      - mini USB appeared in 2000, and was taken up as a semi standard in the following years by many manufacturer
      - micro USB appeared in 2007. It was used as a defacto standard by nearly every one else (except Apple because "fuck you, you're locking in out walled garden !") and was also eventually selected as an official standard by multiple bodies (OMPT, ITU, and yes even the EU's EPS). The only reas

  • Because there has been so MUCH innovation in charging devices.

    Why, they have gone from charging in 2 hours to charging in 20 minutes!

    Oh, wait, they have done nothing.

  • Interesting statement: "hamper innovation, create a mountain of electronic waste and irk consumers." That is exactly my attitude with having so many different connectors and standards now for phones. I don't know how many old chargers I have thrown away, and how much time have I wasted trying to find the correct plug out of the multitude of different USB and other barrel-type plugs over the past years. I am definitely irked.

  • Apple refuses 3rd party repairs, artificially slows down old phones, and encourages obsolecense of their devices, but they care about a standard charger (which would actually de-duplicate electronics) creating mountains of e-waste, yeah, fuck you apple.

    • On the other hand:
      - my Nexus6p flag phone went dark about a month after it's warranty expired, turned out the main board died - fixing was not worth it
      - my Pixel phone battery suddenly (during a week) went from holding more than a day to about 20 minutes about 3 months after warranty
      - fixed the phone above myself with a new battery, however about 2 years of me having the phone I received a message that this phone no longer will be getting any updates
      - yet, my 15 years old iPad (yes - the generation 1) i

  • Consumers don't want a different charger for every phone and tablet.

    We ALSO don't want to be stuck with the 500ma original slow-charge USB that we would have if this has been legislated last time legislation was discussed. We don't want it to be illegal to eventually switch to a better standard.

    We do want standards, to able to use the same charger with different phones. Maybe two charger types, like we have now, is okay.

    Perhaps these two rules could work. They could come into force either by voluntary agre

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • > you want manufacturers to collude on introducing new connectors? Like, they all sit down and have a meeting and agree all the new phones use the new standard?

        That's what was done with the original micro-USB and to some extent the improvements to it, faster charging rates. Yes I think that worked out reasonably well.

        > Before you have 25%, you start with 0% and work your way up. So how can you introduce a new connector if, at the beginning, it will be used by 0% of the industry?

        Samsung is about 25%.

  • what's the better connector? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by v1 ( 525388 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:29PM (#59649042) Homepage Journal

    USB Mini is obviously a loser here, it's big and not very sturdy.

    USB Micro has about the same size requirement, but is also a lot more fragile, I've seen those break on several occasions.

    USB-C is pretty sturdy, and like the lightning it's reversible, but it's physically larger (thicker, meaning your phone can't be as thin) and I don't know what benefit it would offer over the lightning.

    On the other hand, the lightning is made of very robust materials (titaniam body, teflon shell, and gold contacts) whereas the USB-C I don't know - gold contacts I'd bet, but teflon and titanium? Probably not.

    The lightning is also more forgiving on the angle when you are trying to plug it in. When I'm trying to blind plug a USB-C I usually have to move in at an angle to get a corner of the connector in, then square it up and insert *straight* or it jams. The lightning is much easier to plug in blindly.

    USB-C can certainly transfer data faster, and iirc it handles more power, but that's not very useful for a phone, lightning goes plenty fast for syncing phone backups and 1 amp charges your phone pretty fast.

    I don't know what the licensing requirements are for lightning or usb-c, but that's a HUGE point for the manufacturers.

    Your thoughts?

    • USB-C is pretty sturdy, and like the lightning it's reversible, but it's physically larger (thicker, meaning your phone can't be as thin)

      Good, that there is a one reason to require USB-C from now on. They don;t need to be thinner, put in a bigger battery instead.

    • Re:what's the better connector? (Score:4, Informative)

      by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:43PM (#59649110) Homepage

      On the other hand, the lightning is made of very robust materials (titaniam body, teflon shell, and gold contacts) whereas the USB-C I don't know - gold contacts I'd bet, but teflon and titanium? Probably not.

      Apple goes to those lengths to make a strong connector but still refuses to put strain relief on the ends of the cables for reasons of aesthetics. That's what creates mountains of e-waste - their own chargers starting to break and fray right below the connector from early wear.

      USB-C is a standard - the materials are not. You could build it with anything as long as it meets spec.

      USB-C can certainly transfer data faster, and iirc it handles more power, but that's not very useful for a phone

      It also means that you can just use your laptop charger for your phone occasionally. In fact, I think that Macbook Pro chargers can charge Android phones just fine, as well as iPad Pros, Nintendo Switch, just about anything but an iPhone or standard iPad.

      • Yet, I've charged my iPhone from my MacBook USB-C charger. Yes, there are lightning to USB-C cables https://www.apple.com/au/shop/... [apple.com]. Yes, it is a slower charge as the intermediate voltage is not available on the MacBook USB-C charger, but it works. When traveling I have the USB-C charger connected to the MacBook which is in turn connected to the iPhone.

    • On the other hand, the lightning is made of very robust materials (titaniam body, teflon shell, and gold contacts) whereas the USB-C I don't know - gold contacts I'd bet, but teflon and titanium? Probably not. The lightning is also more forgiving on the angle when you are trying to plug it in. When I'm trying to blind plug a USB-C I usually have to move in at an angle to get a corner of the connector in, then square it up and insert *straight* or it jams. The lightning is much easier to plug in blindly.

      I

    • What's to stop any different sized standard being made with "robust materials (titaniam (sic) body, teflon shell, and gold contacts)"?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by atisss ( 1661313 )

      Nobody forbids apple making C connectors from titanium/gold. If one manufacturer starts doing that, several will follow

      There is loss/benefit ratio for both options, but i agree that having universal charger for all phones would benefit users in long term.
      Of course concern about innovation is perfectly valid, and law should have expiration date when EU should review new proposed standards and adopt new if there is improvement

    • SB-C is pretty sturdy, and like the lightning it's reversible, but it's physically larger (thicker, meaning your phone can't be as thin)

      You say that as though people want thinner phones.

    • USB-C is shit and fragile. Mini USB is great and sturdy.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Matheus ( 586080 )

      Comments on 3 points:
      1) Can't speak to robustness of the connector because not aware of how much that's baked into the standard but it doesn't seem pertinent.. There is already a spectrum in quality of cable construction that doesn't seem to be hindered by the USB standard so If someone wants to sell/buy a cheaper cable let them. If someone wants to spend more for a cable that may or may not last longer / function better I'm not aware of any part of the standard blocking them from doing so.

      2) "lightning goe

    • USB-C is pretty sturdy, and like the lightning it's reversible, but it's physically larger (thicker, meaning your phone can't be as thin)

      USB-B Micro is 3.04mm high for a SMT socket. USB-C is 3.25mm high for a SMT socket. Neither are even remotely the limiting factor on phone size.

      On the other hand, the lightning is made of very robust materials (titaniam body, teflon shell, and gold contacts) whereas the USB-C I don't know - gold contacts I'd bet, but teflon and titanium? Probably not.

      There's nothing magical in these materials, but since you are wondering it's 304 outer shell with glass fiber reinforced nylon inlay and gold contacts with minimum thickness and resistance defined. If you're able to break this then titanium won't help you, and god knows teflon definitely won't.

      USB-C can certainly transfer data faster, and iirc it handles more power, but that's not very useful for a phone, lightning goes plenty fast for syncing phone backups and 1 amp charges your phone pretty fast.

      Lightning can re-purpose most pins for power. It is able to actually do q

  • Standards Are Necessary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by El Fantasmo ( 1057616 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:31PM (#59649056)

    Innovation my a55... it's all about revenue generation through lock in.

    Imagine if we had to choose a house/apartment based on non-standard electrical Hz and voltage that forces us to buy from "Builder A" that is only compatible with appliances from "Maker F". Once things reach ubiquity, the technology they are based on should be free or cheap to reproduce. If you violate or exploit the public, then feel the wrath of standardization.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Matheus ( 586080 )

        ...and we are making that choice about 2/1. Just because there's a choice doesn't mean unnecessary diversity can't be reigned in.

        Your example of Power is a perfect one. I'm guessing you haven't traveled very much based on your comment. At least country-to-country there are standards and that makes living in this world at least somewhat manageable. Still the fact there are many different kinds of "normal house" sockets supporting an industry of adapters is irritating. Standardization of plugs would save mass

  • USB-based standards are defective by design (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:34PM (#59649068) Homepage

    I'm not a big fan of the Apple Lightning connector, but...

    USB micro and C connections put the most fragile part of the connector, that thin piece of plastic with the contacts, INSIDE the device, not the cable. Most phones and tablets I've dealt with have that part flexed until it shorts, or comes off, after a year (or less, if kids are involved).

    The Apple cable uses a stronger connector block, and the part that breaks is usually on the cable, not the phone.

    It's not nice when you unplug your phone from the charger and part of it comes with...

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by atisss ( 1661313 )

      MicroB was terrible design, as i am harsh with my equipment, i was basically changing cables every 2 weeks, and port of the phone at least every 3 months (constant charging on the go, and usually getting cable stuck in door). USB-C is huge improvement - in 2 years i have 2 cables that are not good for data anymore, but still good for charging, no broken ports.

    • If you're failing the device side then it's the result of someone using a cheap Chinese garbage connector.

      The tongue in both C and B were designed to not be touched by anything other than spring loaded contacts and that occurs after alignment is enforced by the tolerances in the connector. I've seen plenty of Micro USB sockets fail and they all were invariably poorly designed and not meeting the tolerance requirements in the spec. I've yet to see a USB C device fail.

      In any case the spec was designed in such

  • Common charger is greener for environment (Score:3)

    by omfglearntoplay ( 1163771 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:35PM (#59649074)

    Common chargers are greener. Obviously if you need less charger replacement because everything uses the same one even after years of buying new phones and devices, then we have less landfill.

    I don't appreciate Apple lying about this.

  • Even better (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Thursday January 23, 2020 @04:39PM (#59649088)
    A universal replaceable phone battery.

    • No thanks. I don't want my phone size and shape to be dictated by law. Plus every phone on the market currently has a replaceable battery. The fact that many consumers are too hamfisted is not withstanding. Get some tools and some skills, or go find yourself a Chinese street corner shop with and pay them a few dollars to swap a battery for you. They offer this service for *every* phone currently on the market.

  • The EU ask is for a common *wall* charger. Not a common charging port on phones. Apple already sells USB-C to lightning cables. But, only some of their wall chargers have a USB-C port. https://www.theverge.com/2020/... [theverge.com]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Misagon ( 1135 )

      And when the USB-C to Lightning cable is used to charge an iPhone, the phone can use USB-C PD over it!

  • Is this really that big of an issue if the rumors are true that Apple is ditching the charging port altogether on some models of the next generation of iPhone?
  • Seems like targeting mainly Apple. This should apply to broader charging devices. Digital audio players, hey Sony. PCs, Vacuums , drills, etc... cameras.
  • Apple makes a decent amount of money for selling $30-$50 dongles, so, Lighting-to-USB-C...?

  • What harm does having the same charger design work with all phone do to consumers? I'm trying to think of how. Maybe I'm not imaginative enough. Anyone care to make a suggestion or two?

    BTW, Apple seem happy enough with standardised plugs & voltages at the other end of their chargers.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Corbets ( 169101 )

      What harm does having the same charger design work with all phone do to consumers? I'm trying to think of how. Maybe I'm not imaginative enough.

      Try reading the article. Doesn’t require any imagination, and it prevents the e-waste of unnecessary bits being typed here... :P

  • Both sides are stupid. Let's see a charger that charges fast, plugs in easily even in the dark, so orientation isn't a problem, and uses thick pins so the near-tinfoil ones currently in use don't warp anymore, or if you doink the charger at a bad angle.

    Shut up, Apple. Shut up, government.

    Add seventeen cents to the damned thousand dollar phone!

  • Lightning connector is fundamentally broken (Score:3)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Friday January 24, 2020 @03:24AM (#59650904)

    Anything that outputs power must be a female connector. What were they thinking? I never used Apple products, but have one of those multi-headed charger cables and the 5V pin could touch a ground from anything any time. It's just crazy.

Slashdot Top Deals

No spitting on the Bus! Thank you, The Mgt.

Close