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Apple CEO Tim Cook: China Really Hasn't Pressured Us. (9to5mac.com) 79

Posted by msmash from the straw-man dept.
hackingbear writes: In a talk with ABC News, Apple CEO Tim Cook discussed Apple's investment in the United States, his relationship with President Trump, China and more. When asked if there was a line Apple would not cross if China pressured the company [to violate user's privacy and rights], Cook said they have never been asked in China by authorities to unlock an iPhone, but added, referring to the U.S., "I have here. And we stood up against that, and said we can't do it," he added. "Our privacy commitment is a worldwide one." When asked why Apple still builds the iPhone in China, Cook said that he actually thinks "the iPhone is made everywhere." "If you look at the glass of the iPhone, which everybody touches all day long, that glass is made in Kentucky. If you were to take apart the iPhone you would see many of the silicone components that are made in the United States as well," he added. "The iPhone is the product of a global supply chain." John Gruber of DaringFireball adds: If China hasn't pressured Apple, why was the Taiwanese flag emoji removed from iOS devices in Hong Kong? It's far from the biggest issue surrounding China. I get that. It's just a flag emoji, and we're talking about a regime that has put over a million people into concentration camps. But it is bullshit. Under the one-country-two-systems arrangement China itself agreed to regarding Hong Kong, there is nothing illegal about the Taiwanese flag. It's flat-out wrong that Apple removed the Taiwanese flag emoji in Hong Kong. But if they did so at the behest of China at least we'd have a reason why. If China hasn't pressured Apple on this point, small though it may be, why in the world did Apple remove the flag? It reeks of cowardice. Further reading: Apple Has No Backbone.
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Apple CEO Tim Cook: China Really Hasn't Pressured Us. More

Apple CEO Tim Cook: China Really Hasn't Pressured Us.

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  • No, it smells like good business sense.

    They are not the Army nor Amnesty International, they are a phone company and have to make money for their stockholders, not win any PC-skirmish that comes around.

    • I think it's safe to say which model of democracy will prevail. e.g. the classical European one or the Chinese one. I know which one I'd prefer to win. How about you?
      • You know, I've been to China and they seem to do much better than any European country. Life there is getting better for a billion people every year, not only for a tiny minority of wealth owners.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by guruevi ( 827432 )

        There is no democracy in China, it's a dictatorship. What are you talking about? Even Europe no longer has a democracy, they have the pretenses of elections but every local law can simply be overturned at the EU level. The EU is a true bureaucracy (or deep state), the only representation you'll get is a signature on your paperwork.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      And in China the phone owner have to unlock or face a severe penalty for obstruction - including the family and possibly also neighbors and friends if they don't unlock the phone.

      • I read of how a British national from the Hong Kong consulate had his phone forcibly unlocked by facial recognition: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor... [bbc.co.uk]

        This is quite a severe development; they subjected an embassy worker to torture and forced a 'confession' under their own laws. The Chinese government called British complaints 'interference in domestic affairs'. They are bold enough to apply their laws across borders. So whatever Tim Cook may say, they don't give a toss. The demands for phone access will

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by bob4u2c ( 73467 )
        Why do they even bother? If you are suspected of doing something, you did it. Case closed, off to a work camp for you.

        Why bother Apple with requests for evidence?

    • Well, as most everything Apple is made in "Foxconn City", China, why would we consider Tim Cook's opinion as being anything but strongly biased? Quite simply, Tim Cook is a shill for China.

  • O'RLY?! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:23AM (#59442870)

    I seem to recall that you had to move the iCloud servers for China iPhone users INTO China whose laws require direct access to the server data.
    So... yes, it's "true" China never pressured you into unlocking iPhones - they didn't have to as they already had the data.
    "So what I said is true, from a certain point of view"

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by iserlohn ( 49556 )

      Exactly. There is no need to pressure Apple to unlock somebody's iphone when their icloud backups are stored in country and can be accessed at anytime by the authorities. Given that the separation of powers is almost non-existent in China, the Communist party has access to your data whenever they want it.

  • Nothing to see here (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ACForever ( 6277156 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:35AM (#59442926)
    apple just being apple. Lying and deceiving.

  • ntr

  • China really hasn't pressured us. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Also, President Xi looks nothing like Winnie the Pooh, and we will be terminating the iCloud accounts of any users who claim otherwise. Long live the great nation of China!

  • Why is John Gruber referencing the One-Country, Two-Systems policy as it applies to Hong Kong, when talking about removing a Taiwanese flag? Geography lesson, Taiwan is not in Hong Kong.

    • Re:One Country Two Systems (Score:5, Informative)

      by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent@jan@goh.gmail@com> on Friday November 22, 2019 @11:03AM (#59443062) Homepage

      Because there's no legal reason to remove it. Hong Kong hasn't banned the Taiwanese flag, so what excuse does Apple have for removing it other than trying to accrue good-will from the mainland Chinese government?

      Answer: there is no other reason, and Apple is throwing Taiwan under the bus without being compelled to.

      • It's a colossally stupid move at that considering that their iDevice SoCs are fabricated at TSMC. Guess what the T stands for.

        I have to imagine that some mid-level person acted without authority because there's no way that Cook is this stupid. He's as responsible for Apple's growth and success as Jobs was (due to excellent supply chain management and getting good deals on flash memory at crucial points in time) and this kind of blunder just beggars all belief.

        Sure it's still possible that he did in fa

      • there's no legal reason to remove it. Hong Kong hasn't banned the Taiwanese flag, so what excuse does Apple have for removing it other than trying to accrue good-will from the mainland Chinese government

        Because Hong Kong is part of [wikipedia.org] China. And in particular, the PRC government is responsible for Hong Kong's foreign affairs and defense, i.e. national unity, [wikipedia.org] and Taiwan is part of PRC as recognized by the UN, US, and super majority of countries on this planet. Therefore, China has the right to mandate any companies operating in its territory including Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang to obey PRC's laws regarding national defense and unity; whether you agree with such laws don't matter because it is purely do

        • Typo: "Iran sanction" which is NOT domestic affair of the US

        • sanctioning Iran was not authorized by the United Nations and hence illegal sanction.

          ...Because the UN is a government body with authority over member nations? No. UN is a treaty organization. Sanctions not authorized by UN may (or may not) be a violation of UN treaties, but are not Illegal. International law is a fantasy perpetuated by international lawyers.

          • Not with US law. The Constitution explicitly makes any treaty that the US has ratified effectively US law.

        • 50 cents ...

          International supermajorities don't get to decide moral issues. What's right is right and Pooh is wrong. Taiwan crept out from under a military dictatorship into a relatively free democracy. It would be unjust to bring them under Pooh control by any reasonable moral standard (ie. standards almost completely destroyed in China)

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      So John Gruber isn't that smart. That doesn't invalidate his point about Apple removing the Taiwanese flag. So why do you seize on that one irrelevant thing about the two-country system? Are you pretending he's wrong about the flag or just spreading bullshit because you're an asshole?

  • Greed man, it will take you to the next level. Itâ(TM)s addictive. A need that is never full. Some may call it a disease like drug addiction or alcohol. If you ever had an addiction or mental illness you know what I am talking about. As Gandhi said, we have enough for every humanâ(TM)s need, but not enough for even one personâ(TM)s greed. Now what if you can harness your greed, the way sold out CEOs can? Thatâ(TM)s crazy man. Think about what you can achieve. I mean, I am not talking abo

  • Is it an Apple-only problem? Someone should list every questionable thing that Apple is doing and check what Microsoft and Google are doing for each item.

    • Is it an Apple-only problem? Someone should list every questionable thing that Apple is doing and check what Microsoft and Google are doing for each item.

      Exactly.

      And I thought Emojii were controlled by the Unicode people, not Apple. Is that not the case?

      Oh, I guess it isn't that simple when it comes to Flags. Even non-Taiwanese ones...

      https://www.wired.com/story/fl... [wired.com]

    • Also consider that the pressures that someone like Tim Cook faces are not the same as what many of his employees may be facing. The common reaction of low level executives through middle-management when China raises a flag in every company I have worked for is to smooth it over, don't dare discuss politics, just be pragmatic and do what ruffles the fewest feathers. You don't want this shit getting up to your CEO or your executive VP, or you'll be working at McDonalds.

      This is the same argument I have when sc

  • ... when our POWs went on the news to complement their captors, they blinked 'torture' in Morse code.

  • The sensation of pressure depends on sensor (Score:4, Interesting)

    by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:53AM (#59443020)

    Why would Tim Cook claim that China has never pressure Apple? Well, the question was about pressure and not whether China had actually asked Apple to do things that would be embarrassing to acknowledge to a Western audience. So, if China had asked Apple to deliver a list of names of people who had searched for "illegal" words and Tim thought the request was a reasonable cost of doing business, then he wouldn't feel any pressure over that request.

    • Doing things immediately and even proactively aren't "under pressure." Makes a great spin on things as long as you comply freely.

    • Why would Tim Cook claim that China has never pressure Apple? Well, the question was about pressure and not whether China had actually asked Apple to do things that would be embarrassing to acknowledge to a Western audience. So, if China had asked Apple to deliver a list of names of people who had searched for "illegal" words and Tim thought the request was a reasonable cost of doing business, then he wouldn't feel any pressure over that request.

      So, what would be the ramifications if Xi decided to do to Apple's production-lines what they did to Marriott's website, and how do you think that would ultimately play-out?

      https://www.wired.com/story/fl... [wired.com]

      Do you really think that Apple has a short-term choice, other than to respond like President Zelenskyy did when asked if the U.S. pressured him to investigate Burisma?

      • Do you really think that Apple has a short-term choice, other than to respond like President Zelenskyy did when asked if the U.S. pressured him to investigate Burisma?

        Yup. Came here to say exactly this.

  • People "really" do lie (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:56AM (#59443034)
    When someone uses the word "really" it usually means they're lying - that conditional is a subconscious response to quell the cognitive dissonance of saying something you know is untrue. For example, if someone were to ask if you were pressured to do something at work that was unethical and the answer was no would you reply with "Nobody pressured me at work to something unethical" or "Nobody really pressured me at work to do something unethical"

  • Flags are nogo for global distribution (Score:4, Interesting)

    by olau ( 314197 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:57AM (#59443040) Homepage

    The flag is really an old issue. If you take a look at software intended for global distribution, flags are avoided specifically because of this. Including high-profile open source software.

    And yes, it's stupid. We need to work on moving China out of this oppression.

    • The flag is really an old issue. If you take a look at software intended for global distribution, flags are avoided specifically because of this. Including high-profile open source software.

      And yes, it's stupid. We need to work on moving China out of this oppression.

      Finally! a voice of reason!

      Mods, Mod Parent WAY up!!!

      • Shut up apple worshipper. It only "your" voice of reason because it fits with your pro-apple propaganda.
    • "We"? Who appointed you global arbiter of what nations can and can't do? It is clearly bullying. Maybe if you weren't the world's leading racist warmongers. But you are. How can you sit in judgement of others when you are so vile and despicable yourself?
  • Who screwed that up, the reporter or Tim Cook? I suppose he really could be talking about some silicone-rubber seals...

  • So the gasket that keeps out the water?

  • ... comfortable buying things made by slaves in a coal-powered police state, or you're not. Me, not so much. I try to avoid it.

  • Tim, you caved without pressure? So, what you are saying is that you are totalitarian ass by nature?
    Good to know!

  • Wait... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SirAstral ( 1349985 ) on Friday November 22, 2019 @12:21PM (#59443428)

    So Apple willingly goes along with China's tyranny?

    Would be better if China was pressuring you, you dumb sucker!

  • The press is so weak-minded because it's using pressure as if it's a non-subjective measurement. It implies some sort of duress, but the duress is based on the perception of the receiver.

    As an employee, do I feel pressured when someone asks me to work late? No. I work late or not depending on what I want. Other people may feel "pressure" to stay late. That's their problem.

    The weak-minded feel pressure. To everyone else it's just another request.

    • On an allegedly unrelated note, sociopaths and psychopaths combine for 5% of the population.

      (yes, I am calling your a psychopath for not feeling pressure from other people's wants / demands. That's not "strength", that's lack of the instinctual desire to be part of society. Normal people feel pressure.... the defective 5% feel nothing.)

  • He really should consider a career in politics - he is such a professional liar.

  • It's normal, Mr Cook, that a company, and an American one, complies to such strict requirements for the sake of ... of what?
    Market?

  • The iPhone have silicone components? Must be for waterproofing.

  • APPLE = Evil? or just millennia Just saying, they are very into everything being about themselves. They defer when They take the path of least resistance for everything and Morals are a thing-you-old-people-do. #### Things they do that is evil (even if not always illegal) They don't admit they make mistakes or try to fix what they did. (Faulty screens or keyboards) They don't stand up for what is right, just because it might cause some friction. (Anything to do with China) They use slave labor (essentiall
  • Maybe the Chinese don't need to directly pressure Apple because Apple has become the master of self-censorship? Also, curious if the Chinese don't ask to unlock Apple phones only because they have other ways to either unlock them or with such tight controls over Telcos and ISP's, they don't need access since they can get the data through other means.
  • What if, and I'm completely speculating here... But what if in fact these huge companies who want to control you through their hardware aren't being pressured by China, but are in fact inspired by it?
  • Didn't we just see this shit play out recently, trying to remember where. I think there was a politician that needed the help of a much bigger country or the like and lied about the pressure being put on his country to secure the support. Pretty sure I read something about this a while back.
  • was not really not illegal?
    Helping support Communist nations is good?

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