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The Almighty Buck Businesses Iphone Apple

Have Flagship Smartphone Prices Peaked? (ccsinsight.com) 85

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Analyst Ben Wood, writing for research firm CCS Insight: Smartphone makers have been testing the economic rule of supply and demand for the past decade, seemingly defying conventional wisdom in consumer electronics products by raising prices. Greater utility and the constant of use smartphones combined to grow the value of devices to customers. But it seems that top phone-makers are learning that no tree grows to heaven, as prices beyond the psychological threshold of $1,000 have created sticker shock among some consumers. Apple's announcement of the iPhone 11 at its annual product event last week largely centered on incremental improvements such as better camera and battery life, but the company's decision to lower the price of its base flagship smartphone caught our eye. The iPhone 11 will cost $699 in the US. A year ago, Apple introduced the iPhone XR at $749. It's a subtle, but interesting move that sees Apple shifting its "mid-range" iPhone back to a price of $699, where it previously resided with the iPhone 8. Apple's decision to lower pricing can be seen as an acknowledgement that it has tested the upper limits of consumer acceptance. At a time when the company wants to expand its number of customers as it builds out its ecosystem of content and services, it's sensible that it slightly brought down the barriers for consumers to get their hands on the new device.
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Have Flagship Smartphone Prices Peaked? More

Have Flagship Smartphone Prices Peaked?

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  • It's not the price (Score:3)

    by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @02:07PM (#59209466)

    It's the features. Consumers have demonstrated they are willing to pay high prices for phones, but that was back when there were significant performance and feature improvements with each generation. There was a bit of a lag as phones saw less and less improvement but prices stayed the same. Consumers are finally catching and not willing to spend as much any more.

  • Not since the Moto Z-2-Force (2017) has their been a top end cellphone with a screen that wasn't made of the most shatter-prone glass human engineers can produce. Heck, most phones makers make their whole cellphone out of shatter-glass.

    Can I please have a shatter resistant phone. Please.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
      Sure, but then it's more prone to scratches.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sinij ( 911942 )
        Why would some polishing compound and maybe buffing not work on scratches?

      • I have had a Moto Z-2-Force for two years. It's showing it's age, but the screen doesn't have the scratch problem that FUD has claimed.

        But I don't have a frigging shattered screen.

    • I drop my phone on concrete or steel sometimes but the $5 case protects it. Haven't broken a screen yet. What the hell is your problem?

      • My problem is that my desire for aesthetics and appreciation for a thin phone that nicely and comfortably fits in my pocket conflicts with my frustration that I have to have a 2" thick bullet proof case in order to keep the screen from shattering into a billion pieces.

        • It sounds like your aesthetics is at odds with the laws of physics. In that struggle, I think it is your aesthetic requirements that have to change.

        • Do you gold plate your hammers? it's a tool, fuck "aesthetics".

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          ... to keep the screen from shattering into a billion pieces.

          You're one of those people. I never understood how anyone can shatter their screen. I just recently traded in my four-year-old iPhone 6s. Took off the $10 clear case and $10 screen protector, cleaned up it with some alcohol wipes, and got my $100 trade-in value at Apple.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

          My problem is that my desire for aesthetics and appreciation for a thin phone that nicely and comfortably fits in my pocket conflicts with my frustration that I have to have a 2" thick bullet proof case in order to keep the screen from shattering into a billion pieces.

          How small are your pockets? My Galaxy S7 in an otterbox case has never had any issues fitting in my pockets.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DogDude ( 805747 )
          Maybe don't drop your phone? I've *never* dropped a phone or cracked a screen. I don't use a case. It seems that some people break everything they touch, and some people don't.

      • My Nexus 4 went flying out of my hand, arcing through the air, hitting the concrete sidewalk hard on a top corner. Destroyed, right? Wrong. If it was an Apple product that would have been the end of the line for at least the screen. But it was not Apple, it was LG. Lucky for me. Just powdered the corner a bit. I used it for two more years after that without issues and still have it, still perfectly functional.

    • You can, but it'll cost you hundreds of dollars less. If you really want an expensive phone, you'll have to settle for fragility.

    • The first phones prioritized shatter-resistance. These phones got scratched up. Modern phones emphasize scratch resistance, for people who put their keys in the same pocket. Scratch resistant glass shatters more easily.

  • Fees (Score:2)

    by sinij ( 911942 )
    I think phone manufacturers just switched tactics to resemble airlines. You get a phone, but then you have to pay additional fees to actually use it. Take iPhone and headphone for example, AirPods are $150 fee on top of phone costs that in the past was just bundled in.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Which model of the iPhone was AirPods ever bundled in? Or were you referring to EarPods?

      I recently got a new iPhone XR. EarPods with lightning connector included. Miracles and wonders never ceases!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cob666 ( 656740 )
      iPhones still come with headphones, you just have to plug them into the phone, just like every other phone every made.

      I don't see what your problem is...

      • I never saw the reason why headphones should be included with a phone. It is a personal choice of quality and fit.

        Would have preferred that they included the dongle to connect my own wired headphones instead. Or just lost the courage.

    • Take iPhone and headphone for example, AirPods are $150 fee on top of phone costs that in the past was just bundled in.

      Used to ... when?! The $150 AirPods aren't 3 years old, that is they didn't exist for the vast majority of iPhone's history. And if during this short time they were ever offered bundled with some iPhone it was for sure a one-off super-special offer.

      If you meant the $20 EarPods (not even worth $10 except for the name) they're still included with the new iPhone 11 too.

    • You mean AirPods that you don't have to have. You can use any BT headphones you want. I've had iPhones since the 3g and don't have AirPods. They don't interest me.

      They still come with lightning headphones.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @02:26PM (#59209548)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by lactose99 ( 71132 )

      So they can take higher-res pictures of food and duck-faces to post in Snapgram.

    • It makes more sense if If you look at 'high end' phones as jewelry for those with disposable income.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Ahh, but YOU know you've got a better phone than the plebes....

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

          and you keep the thing in your pocket, so most of the time you're not displaying it.

          Why do you think they keep making them bigger and bigger? Make them too big for pockets and people have to carry them around showing people that they have them.

          • One reason phones are made bigger is heat dissipation and more space for a battery. Even though most people don't want a phablet, it is being "encouraged" by only building in the cooler features in the larger units, because the faster CPUs, GPUs, etc. create more heat, which requires more surface area for it to get cooled off.

        • That's likely the case, i.e. "status". It's sort of a weird display of wealth though since it doesn't really LOOK any more expensive than anyone else's phone, and you keep the thing in your pocket, so most of the time you're not displaying it.

          Well, it takes 2 to do the status thing you mention.

          1 person to buy the item to display for status.

          And at least 1 more person to see the other person's phone and be envious or think it is a status symbol, etc.

          So, in real life, is there really ANYONE out there today

    • I personally can't imagine paying that much for a phone

      I can't imagine focusing spending money on any other device. The Phone is what most people will be using, most often... if you are planning to use it for three - four years it's worth spending more so that it holds up better, and has features that will be helpful.

      Really advanced camera tech, really fast processing are useful to most people most of the time. Considering how much people use phones now it seems rather insane to not think about buying a

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • A better camera? If you want a good camera buy a REAL SLR digital camera. It's MUCH better than some crummy phone camera ever will be.

          I have a real SLR, but I don't carry it with me everywhere I go - a trait which many people consider exceptionally handy.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion


            • I have a real SLR, but I don't carry it with me everywhere I go - a trait which many people consider exceptionally handy.
              The $700 phones don't really have some amazing picture taking ability the $200 cameras lack. Maybe 10 years ago that was true, but it's not anymore.That's why I mention the SLR which is a completely different animal. My $200 phone takes quite nice pictures.

              There's just basic physics at play here. The camera can only gather as much light as the lens can, so phone cameras are always going to be limited by that. You may think it's all about "megapixels", but the lens itself is a major part of the camera. People spend thousands of dollars on lenses that reduce aberration and you can't just duplicate that within a phone.

              Newer cell phone cameras have more lenses, often with different focal lengths or apertures. They also have sophisticated digital processing that lets them use multiple lenses at once to gather more light and increase depth. The ability to do on-the-fly compositing with multiple lenses is something that you can't do with an SLR. The video performance of phones has also improved over alongside the still picture improvements.

              Yes, a cell phone is never going to match an SLR and a good editing suite in most

        • missing in a $700 flagship that I don't get in my $200 Moto G5?

          A wildly better screen Larger screen Far better cameras Better OS Face unlock More internal storage Thinner Much faster chip And so on. You may not value those things to the tune of $500, or at all, and the Moto exists for because Sony believes there are enough of you to make it worth their while. Apple thinks there are enough of me, so they offer a different phone. The world is a diverse place. Some of us can even have a flagship phone as well as a "real DSLR" (though I went with mirrorless).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Falos ( 2905315 )

          Advanced emoji.

          Unless you're a shitty photographer, then phone cameras become an important matter for you, I don't want you to fall behind Penroze.

      • I can see both sides of this. On one hand, people use their phone a lot, so having a good unit makes sense, with all the hours it gets used. On the other hand, phones are tending to be "good enough", even midrange or low end devices. One happy medium might be to wait until spring or summer to upgrade, after prices drop, and initial supply bugs are worked out.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by b0bby ( 201198 )

      I think $1000 is more than I would spend, but when my last phone was dying I spent $600 on a Pixel 3 just because of the camera. (The 3a wasn't out yet, or I would have gone for that.) For me, having a really pretty good camera with me always was worth the extra money. I can see how someone locked into the iPhone ecosystem would spend more to get a similarly good camera.

      I am pretty sure that this is the most I'll ever spend on a phone, though, since going forward I expect even mid-range phones will have goo

    • But now they have $1000 phones? WTF? Who's forking over so much money for something that's not really any substantially different than the thing I paid around $200 for?

      You do know there are a LOT of people out there, with disposable income, that $1K is pretty much a pocket change amount.

      Personally, I don't count it as pocket change, but if I want something that cost $1K, it ain't gonna break the bank or hit me very much financially that month that I buy it.

      I just won't put as much in savings that month.

    • I live in an urban area and it's very fashionable to have the latest iPhone or Pixel and whip it out on your subway commute. I have also noticed people noticing other phones, making comments, compliments, etc. As others stated, it is just jewelry that goes obsolete in 2-4 years. People talk about it in the office and elevator.

      In urban areas, Apple products are very much status symbols. It's what people value and are willing to spend money on. I don't share their view, but I don't judge either. I a

    • $700 for a phone over 3 years (my average time with a phone) is $20/month or $0.65/day. Whether I'm paying $0.01/day for a phone or $0.65/day or $0.90/day it doesn't really impact my life. Might as well spend a bit more and get the nice camera and the wireless charging, both of which impact my life a bit more than the fraction of a dollar I spend on it every day.

    • As always, poor people (or recently poor people) have some kind of driving desire for status symbols. I don't get it. I'm certainly not poor, and I couldn't give two shits about what somebody things about my phone (or my car, or my clothes or my house, etc.)

      • "I couldn't give two shits about what somebody things about my phone (or my car, or my clothes or my house, etc.)"

        Obviously you failed at the "being manipulated for fun and profit" course in elementary school. Unfortunately I don't think they have remedial classes for that.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      But now they have $1000 phones? WTF? Who's forking over so much money for something that's not really any substantially different than the thing I paid around $200 for?

      I did. I forked out over $1500 for it. Why? Because I realized that my old phone was 7 years old at the time and the battery was starting to go. My new one (well, one year old now) I expect to live just as long, if not longer before I'd buy a new phone again.

      Sure I could've gone cheap, but I decided that amortized over the better part of a de

    • Who? My employer, that's who, and $1000 not $700. It's a Note9 and is substantially different than your $200 phone because it's the only one that has an active digitizer, plus a much faster processor and better screen.

      Does it make any difference? A little, yeah, I really do use the pen to make notes during meetings and the screen makes it easier to read emails. On the other hand the extra cost is basically negligible compared to all other expenses (IT charges like $100/month just to connect a laptop to the

    • I change my Samsung Note at each release, it's only a grant. I give my older one to my children. Who work in IT and don't want the latest and best technology in his hand!?

    • Mostly people who are bad at math. After all, if your $700 phone only costs only $50 a month for two years, that doesn't seem so bad, right?

  • Novelty has worn off (Score:3)

    by Moof123 ( 1292134 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @02:58PM (#59209694)

    When touch based phones were new and exciting I saw a reason to upgrade semi-frequently.

    Now the features are incremental at best. Most apps are now utilitarian, and frankly most apps don't get used. Many things suck with a touch screen, so once the phone is no longer a toy to be played with, but a tool to get stuff done with it stops getting used for things are better done with a keyboard and mouse.

    I used to do my expense reports with my phone because I could just snap a pic of the receipts. But I still had to type a bunch of stuff in. The app also had dumbed down some things so that some reports got returned for being wrong despite me never having access to certain fields. Now i snap the pics with the phone and do everything else on my PC once the pictures from the app sync.

    I rarely play games on my phone besides solitaire (sad but true). I used to do stuff like Angry Birds and what have you, but when you get tired of inaccurate finger gestures, it is hardly an escape to play heavily touch reliant games. Phones have obscene amounts of processing power, allowing them to run 3D FPS games, but the experience sucks so I don't.

    Truly cool stuff like GPS bike navigation apps started to hook me, now the ones I want are all subscription based. I bought a dedicated crappy GPS instead.

    • The only real reason I'm going to be looking at a replacement phone is that updates are ending for my current device. I might as well pay a bit more and get a unit with a year or two of extra life.

  • Premise is silly (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @03:11PM (#59209776)

    This self-described "analyst" is attempting to draw a conclusion based on ONE data point - the fact that the 2019 base iPhone is slightly cheaper than the 2018 base iPhone. Setting aside the fundamentally broken logic, there are at least two additional reasons this is a dumb thing to do right now...

    - The 2019 iPhones are basically iterative updates. Some have referred to it as "Apple doing an 'S' update cycle two years in a row". On the other hand, the Apple rumor mill has been pretty consistently saying that Apple is holding off any big updates until it can also put 5G in the phone - so let's wait until 2020 to draw conclusions regarding the iPhone's pricing, going forward.

    - Hello, Galaxy Fold? The aborted device launch from earlier this year was associated with roughly a $2000 price point. When Samsung releases the "fixed" version, does anyone really expect the price to be down in the $1000 range? Its reasonable to think that the phone makers will continue to try setting prices as high as possible when their devices can be seen as having some innovative feature.

  • Probably not yet.

    The Samsung Galaxy Fold is $1999.

    I suspect most folding smartphones wen they become more common will go for more than the ~$1100 point we are hovering around now for the larger "regular" smartphones. Becasue they have multiple screens.

  • Human stupidity knows no bounds. (Score:3)

    by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @04:16PM (#59210090)

    When the iWatch came out, Apple advertised a premium version in 18-karat yellow gold that cost $17,000. You were saying something about "peak" pricing?

    Five years from now, I can assure you that there will be plenty of brand whores paying $3000 for the latest smartphone, proving that capitalizing on human stupidity, is truly timeless.

    • Sometimes they come in and out of style. A few years ago, Vertu was all the rage, not because their smartphone pushed the edge technologically, but you could hit a button made from a gemstone and get Les Clefs d’Or tier concierge service. People would happily pay thousands to tens of thousands for something gold plated, gem encrusted, and leather wrapped.

    • ...proving that capitalizing on human stupidity, is truly timeless.

      Apparently in ancient Greece the aristocracies lost power due to too much "keeping up with the Joneses", and tyrannies became all the rage. I assume a tyranny was considered an improvement at the time, or at least someone (a tyrant) was able to persuade enough people that it was an improvement.

  • Of good Linux phone cheap and nicely fetured, the big players have another kind of concurrency.

  • When you stop describing and thinking of them as phones then you stop the price prejudice.
    These things take better pictures than a DLSR did back when the iphone first launched.
    Pre-2007 we carried around a mobile phones, MP3 players, digital cameras, satnavs, gameboys and the only way to use the internet was via a computer.
    You get an all in one device, that you might use 1->5% of the time if at all, to make/take phone calls and it still gets called a phone?
    If you add up the cost of all those devices consu

  • Both Huawei and Samsung will be releasing foldable mobile devices with price tags well north. Samsung looking to charge as much as $1900 and Huawei $2600. Granted Huawei might not have a US customer base to sell to it won't stop consumers from other parts of the world snapping up these devices.

  • ... I was researching a new iPhone model to get like SE, 7, 8+, etc. Dang, new ones are still expensive. SE is like impossible to find too to stay cheap. :(

  • The price in Europe is 809 EUR so almost 900 USD using today's exchange rates.

  • I honestly haven't seen anything truly revolutionary since around 2014, when the Samsung Galaxy S5 came out. Big screen, fast enough CPU, and fingerprint reader. With a bit more RAM and storage this phone would still perfect even today. Any CPU since Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 was fast enough, even by today's standards. So the question is why even pay 600 or more dollars for a new phone today?

    Granted, the US market for cheap but capable phones is kind of crappy. Most of those phones are from Chinese brands, an

  • Challenge accepted

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