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Apple Is Telling Lawmakers People Will Hurt Themselves if They Try To Fix iPhones (vice.com) 273

In recent weeks, an Apple representative and a lobbyist for CompTIA, a trade organization that represents big tech companies, have been privately meeting with legislators in California to encourage them to kill legislation that would make it easier for consumers to repair their electronics Motherboard has learned. From a report: According to two sources in the California State Assembly, the lobbyists have met with members of the Privacy and Consumer Protection Committee, which is set to hold a hearing on the bill Tuesday afternoon. The lobbyists brought an iPhone to the meetings and showed lawmakers and their legislative aides the internal components of the phone. The lobbyists said that if improperly disassembled, consumers who are trying to fix their own iPhone could hurt themselves by puncturing the lithium-ion battery, the sources, who Motherboard is not naming because they were not authorized to speak to the media, said. The argument is similar to one made publicly by Apple executive Lisa Jackson in 2017 at TechCrunch Disrupt, when she said the iPhone is "too complex" for normal people to repair them. The bill has been pulled by its sponsor, Susan Talamantes-Eggman: "It became clear that the bill would not have the support it needed today, and manufacturers had sown enough doubt with vague and unbacked claims of privacy and security concerns," she said.
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Apple Is Telling Lawmakers People Will Hurt Themselves if They Try To Fix iPhones

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:05PM (#58529240)

    It would be a real shame if something happened to you while fixing your iPhone....right Rocko?

    • damage repair fees +

  • Well yeah... (Score:5, Informative)

    by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:06PM (#58529250)
    I took a flat edged mini screwdriver to mine to pry open the case from the glass and sliced my hand open!
    • I took a flat edged mini screwdriver to mine to pry open the case from the glass and sliced my hand open!

      You're using the wrong tool. There's a stiff plastic tool specifically for that purpose that's much less likely to cut your hand.

      • by suutar ( 1860506 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:45PM (#58529658)

        plus he was holding it wrong

      • Also, you have to actually heat the glue in order to separate the screen from the body in one piece.

        • Re:Well yeah... (Score:4, Informative)

          by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @05:40PM (#58530166) Journal

          Also, you have to actually heat the glue in order to separate the screen from the body in one piece.

          I assume that he's doing that, but maybe not. I have a heat gun. You have to be careful to apply enough heat to soften the glue but not enough to damage the electronics (or melt the solder). Really, the parts and tools aren't hard to come by. Most of the repairs I do amounts to replacing the battery on older, out-of-warranty devices, for the small subset of Apple owners who want to keep the device they have rather than standing out in the cold waiting for the store to open when a newer model comes out.

          • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            The iFixIt iOpener is really good for this. You heat it in the microwave and then it applies heat evenly and consistently, and there is no danger of cooking anything if you follow the instructions. You also get some plastic pry tools with it that are decent and don't scratch up the device if you are careful with them.

        • Also, you have to actually heat the glue in order to separate the screen from the body in one piece.

          This requires at least 12 seconds in a microwave, or 15 seconds if you're above 4,000 feet in elevation.

  • by chispito ( 1870390 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:07PM (#58529278)
    If the product is designed such that it might blow or catch fire if opened incorrectly, then it clearly needs to be re-designed.
    • Maybe it was designed to blow the hand off of whoever tried to repair it. Accidentally, of course.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If they just had a clip-up back or some little screws, and didn't glue the battery in there would be a 0% chance of injuring yourself when trying to just replace a consumable part of the phone.

      I'm a little surprised that they haven't started gluing their laptops together yet. Parts of them are glued or welded, but you can still get at the motherboard by removing screws. Microsoft is actually way ahead there - some of the Surface models are actually made out of glue.

  • no, seriously, how many times have any of us backyard mechanics busted our knuckles or burnt our arms?

    Where's the government to protect us and corporate profits from ourselves?

  • by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:14PM (#58529348)
    Its not you will bleed a lot if you get cut. You aren't going to get cut all that deep. The antiseptic will hurt more.
    The battery is only 3V so a surprise but nothing like 20 from a laptop
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:18PM (#58529384)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      You can still own a phone with a battery. Use some double sided tape and one of those charging banks, perhaps a 3D printed case and you'll approximate the same size and heft of those phones of yore.

    • Legends speak of a time when phones were designed with batteries that could not only be replaced by the user, but indeed, swapped out without TOOLS!!!

      That's ridiculous. The legends clearly lie.

      ---
      Posted from my Note 4.

    • before people LET the phone makers TELL them WHAT THEY WOULD BE BUYING

      Got bad news for you - the makers have always been able to tell you what you'd be buying. Because your choices were always limited to "what they made"....

      Now, that said, it's true that NOT buying something can (and always did) send a message to the makers. If you won't buy what they're selling, they'll change what they're selling till it was something you'd buy (or could buy, in some cases)....

      IOW, the people complaining about not be

    • I think there's a very important component that people are missing. That is, the "replaceable packaging." The replaceable batteries within phones used to be packaged in a durable packaging. Something that could take the (reasonable) abusive handling of an untrained individual. I happen to have an old Samsung S3 that I let my kids play with. It has a replaceable battery. You know how thick that battery is? Nearly as thick as my S8+. Today, in the pursuit of the ever thinner, ever more dense package

  • ...just to be safe.
  • by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:21PM (#58529408) Homepage Journal
    If Apple's phones have some kind of unusual safety problem that makes them too dangerous to repair (more dangerous than any car or gun, even!), then they're probably too dangerous to sell in the state of California, aren't they? It sounds like Apple needs to take their experimental products off the market instead of using innocent Californians, some of them probably even children, as their explosive device guinea pigs.
    • by roc97007 ( 608802 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:39PM (#58529610) Journal

      If Apple's phones have some kind of unusual safety problem that makes them too dangerous to repair (more dangerous than any car or gun, even!), then they're probably too dangerous to sell in the state of California, aren't they? It sounds like Apple needs to take their experimental products off the market instead of using innocent Californians, some of them probably even children, as their explosive device guinea pigs.

      Brilliant. Let's re-introduce the fix-it bill, and at the same time start an "iphone is too dangerous to sell in the state of California" bill, and watch Apple flop about trying to combat both of them. Figure, if either wins, we all win.

      • by e3m4n ( 947977 )

        If i woke up tomorrow and every smartphone on the planet stopped working, and Facebook/Snapchat melted down, I would be convinced I must be in a coma and my mind was playing out a Utopian world. A Shangri-La. I can think of no other emergent technology that has been more disruptive than this. While there are some definite good features, even too much of a good thing has become very bad. Its like the 80s scifi movie Lifeforce, except its these devices stealing our lives away instead of an alien species.

    • So what happens when apple won't let you change your battery and you can't dial 911 because the battery is dead on your 1 year old phone before the ride home after work. It used to last all day, so you had an expectation of emergency communication.

      Might need to add that to your bill.

  • It sounds like the lobbyists disassembled an iPhone in front of the committee to show off how dangerous the internals are. This seems counter-intuitive -- a lobbyist easily learned how to correctly disassemble an iPhone and successfully disassembled an iPhone safely in front of a committee while also telling that committee how dangerous it is.
    • I'm betting the lobbyists brought in a highly-trained technician wearing a white labcoat, gloves, and goggles to perform the "dangerous" task for them.

  • Who is bribing those folks?

    Just guess....
  • by jordan314 ( 1052648 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:34PM (#58529544)
    Sites like ifixit have criticized Apple for years for gluing their parts down instead of screwing them in. It seems like they're intentionally making them hazardous to fix.
    • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Friday May 03, 2019 @12:49AM (#58531646) Journal

      Sites like ifixit have criticized Apple for years for gluing their parts down instead of screwing them in. It seems like they're intentionally making them hazardous to fix.

      More likely, it's just easier to design very compact devices that are held together with glue rather than screws. Screws take up space, which means you don't want to use a lot of them, and if you don't use a lot of them then you have to design around the fact that the device is only held together at a few points.

      If you just fill the case with glue, you get an essentially solid device. The glue holds it together at every point and even becomes a structural reinforcement, to make it more resistant to compression damage. So the result is easier to design, easier to assemble, and stronger -- but harder to fix.

  • ...never to own an iphone again.

  • by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:45PM (#58529670) Homepage Journal

    I have a 55" toshiba TV that had a LED backlight strip go out. The TV refuses to power on when one goes out. Figured, "Oh I can just repair this myself!"

    Had to find the part on ebay.
    Took about 20 screws to get the TV open
    Had to disconnect another 6 or 7 ribbon cables, No docs anywhere on how to do this.
    Part didn't fit 100% correctly
    Buttoned it all back up.
    A year later another backlight went out.
    I'm not feeling like going through this again, have a spare on hand, just don't feel like doing this again. Might buy a new TV.

    TV backlights should be as easy to repair as, changing a light bulb. This isn't cathode ray tube TV's with flyback transformers that will send you flying back across the room if you touch a still charged one.

    • TV backlights should be as easy to repair as, changing a light bulb.

      Like WTF? No they should not. The ease of changing a lightbulb has resulted in a world of negative impacts on its design, part of them actually come full circle in that the design and fitting of the easy to swap bulb trap heat and cause them to break meaning they need to be swapped more frequently.

      A TV backlight is not a consumable. That you (seemingly the only person in the world) got a dud doesn't mean some government needs to step in. After all you managed to repair it yourself didn't you? What kind of l

  • The more they safeguard their systems the more they feel like everyone is inferior to them. They get this feeling like their precious iDevice, that will fill landfills in 2-3 years, is worth more than the user holding it. Because it is. That's the funny part of not relying on peoples' data and instead profiting from devices. The device is everything and the app market is everything since that is your profit maker. You want people to throw the device away and buy a new one as soon as possible. You continue t
  • We are talking about Apple users after all.

    troll troll troll your boat slowly up the stream.....

  • This is the lawn dart again.

    I absolutely, whole-heartedly agree that one can get hurt fiddling with electronics. Certainly, repairing the innards of a compact cell phone counts as such. I totally agree that there is a danger of getting seriously hurt by repairing your iphone.

    I also agree that people (competent adults) should be allowed to hurt themselves. Yes, that includes today's version of "competent".

    But we live in a world where it's bad to get hurt. Bad enough that it must have been illegal by some

    • But we live in a world where it's bad to get hurt. Bad enough that it must have been illegal by someone.

      It's not so much 'bad' as 'grounds for a lawsuit'.

      Said lawsuit should fail, but Apple, et al still have to show up and fight it. Making it illegal means they can have the lawsuit thrown out very quickly and thus cheaply.

  • One of Apple's claims for making 'sealed' devices is that the processes they now use that results in un-repairability supposedly increases reliability* - well if that's really the case, why haven't they increased their standard warranty from 1 year to, say, 3-5 years then?

    (* not for keyboards, apparently)

    • well if that's really the case, why haven't they increased their standard warranty from 1 year to, say, 3-5 years then?

      Because supply and demand are not nearly as efficient as its acolytes believe.

  • There is a simple answer to this. Apple should be forced to demonstrably offer these kinds of repairs at no profit. Then they can decide whether they want to keep fixing them or not.
    • Yea apparently you don't understand the concept of capitalism where the idea is to make aa much profit as possible, not give you as much free stuff as possible.

  • I know we have a few politicians who are technical, but we really need more of them. I'm not sure how to increase the number, but it'd help in cases like this.

  • I've repaired a few thousand Iphones. I don't think I've ever even cut myself doing it. I've had blood pressure problems from crappy replacement screens but thats about it. How do these people come up with this garbage?

    • There will be someone who decides they're going to "fix" the battery. By pounding a screwdriver into the battery to "open" it. They will be doing this repair in their garage, right next to a stack of improperly-stored flammable household chemicals.

      Yes, it's really, really stupid. But we all know someone will do it.

      "You can't legally repair it" ends the subsequent lawsuit very quickly and cheaply. If you can legally open the device and repair it, we now wander into arguing whether or not Apple should hav

  • If you shove it up your butt sideways.

  • Self-harm is often linked with depression. And looking upon the internals of one of these bad boys is likely to reduce a grown man to tears.

  • Do we stop selling screwdrivers because of that or make them illegal? No. Just require that anybody selling repair tools or instructions adds clear warnings for the battery. Problem solved. Incompetents will still hurt themselves, but that cannot be prevented, see subject. Competent people (and there are a lot) will get to do what they should be able to do all along.

  • by BrendaEM ( 871664 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @07:05PM (#58530678) Homepage
    Simply buy another brand of phone.
  • by WolfgangVL ( 3494585 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @07:45PM (#58530860)

    Apple, Tesla, John Deer, and the rest have made bad judgement on putting dangerous parts in their products.... to the point that it is dangerous for the end user to service them.

    This is a liability problem on their part. Now they are trying to block the laws guaranteeing consumer rights to do what they will with their hardware, in an effort to avoid the liability.

    We're at a point where we've allowed "licensing" of hardware, with limited rights for the consumer, and the producers are expecting to be paid to handle the things that the consumer is not "licensed" to do. Software IP licensing laws are being pigeon-holed into hardware sales, and these are the problems that arise.

    If these hardware companies want to continue to restrict hardware rights via licensing agreements (move away from hardware ownership) they need to make up the difference *at their expense*, or face the liability that comes with customers servicing the hardware themselves.

    It looks to me like these companies are doing pretty well with capitalism, but are trying to cut ownership out of the system..... Has this worked for any other industries?

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Thursday May 02, 2019 @07:59PM (#58530926)

    After I went through all that trouble to file the pointy corners on my phone round.

  • This is easy.

    Just stick a standard lightning bolt in an upside down caution triangle and warn that it is not just not user servicable, but warn that a dangerous electric shock may result if they try.

    It's not rocket science, and if someone defies a clear warning they're deliberately putting themselves at risk.

    In effect, ignoring a caution is voiding the user's warranty on their own body.

  • ...should be the suicide nets around the factories where people work on iPhones all day. This iPhone tinkering be dangerous sheet, kids.
  • New extreme sports: Extreme iPhone repairing!

If all else fails, lower your standards.

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