Teenager Claims Apple's In-Store Facial Recognition System Mistakenly Led To His Arrest (scmp.com) 189
An 18-year-old from New York is suing Apple for $1 billion -- saying an erroneous facial recognition system in their stores wrongfully led to his arrest. An anonymous reader quotes the Washington Post:
Ousmane Bah, who was arrested at his home in November, claims the warrant included a photo of someone else. The lawsuit also said a detective with the New York Police Department concluded the thief caught on the shop's surveillance camera "looked nothing like" Bah. The lawsuit, citing the detective, says Apple uses facial recognition technology to identify shoplifters. Apple did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Bah said he had an interim learner's permit, which does not have a photo, that had either been lost or stolen. His lawyer said the permit may have been presented as identification at Apple stores, erroneously matching Bah's name with the thief's face in the company's security system. That means every time the perpetrator walked into an Apple store, his face would register as Bah on Apple's surveillance.
Bah had been charged in multiple jurisdictions including New York, Massachusetts, Delaware and New Jersey, according to the lawsuit. Charges in three cases against Bah have been dropped, but the New Jersey case is pending.
Bah said he had an interim learner's permit, which does not have a photo, that had either been lost or stolen. His lawyer said the permit may have been presented as identification at Apple stores, erroneously matching Bah's name with the thief's face in the company's security system. That means every time the perpetrator walked into an Apple store, his face would register as Bah on Apple's surveillance.
Bah had been charged in multiple jurisdictions including New York, Massachusetts, Delaware and New Jersey, according to the lawsuit. Charges in three cases against Bah have been dropped, but the New Jersey case is pending.
It’s from the South China Morning Post (Score:2)
Hey guys, are you sure your leaders are okay with you posting a story about a possibly erroneous arrest facilitated by facial recognition? I’m wondering who your editor will be, a week from now...
Stay safe!
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Here's a copy and paste from SCMP: "The Washington Post Published: 10:48pm, 23 Apr, 2019"
Please learn to read!
Re:It’s from the South China Morning Post (Score:5, Informative)
Washington Post. (Isn't that Zuck's newspaper?)
No, it is Jeff Bezos's newspaper.
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Hey guys, are you sure your leaders are okay with you posting a story/p>
SCMP is published in Hong Kong, and is a reputable newspaper.
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SCMP is published in Hong Kong, and is a reputable newspaper.
Wasn’t intending to imply otherwise. However with China’s love of facial recognition tech (and face it, it’s not as if Hong Kong is actually independent)... it seemed like an interesting angle to mention.
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Ah, excellent points. May I take your picture for a news article I am creating?
Re:It’s from the South China Morning Post (Score:5, Informative)
SCMP is published in Hong Kong, and is a reputable newspaper.
Unfortunately not as reputable as it used to be.
In 2015, after years of self-censorship and occasional sackings, there was a purge of journalists who had criticised the Mainland government, and a CCP lackey was installed as editor-in-chief.
It is still more independent than any mainland paper though, even mentioning the Tiananmen Square massac^W - sorry, "crackdown".
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You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust .... Sorry. That's what accountability means ...
Well you're very brave pointing that out, you know, given the stuff I've seen posted from your account ...
Shanghai Bill's comments seem excellent to me. (Score:2)
Shanghai Bill's comments [slashdot.org] seem excellent to me.
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Hey guys, are you sure your leaders are okay with you posting a story about a possibly erroneous arrest facilitated by facial recognition?
It's quite clear by now that there was no facial recognition involved in his arrest. As demonstrated by the fact that there are photos of a thief and photos of him on the internet, and no facial recognition would ever have tied them together.
Why is Apple to blame? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:5, Insightful)
When you make serious allegations against someone in 4 states you'd better be damned sure you have it right. They didn't.
They mindlessly attached one person's ID to another person's face and reported it to the police as if it was established fact.
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When you make serious allegations against someone in 4 states you'd better be damned sure you have it right. They didn't.
Apple gave all the evidence they had to the police. The police took it from there. It was the job of the police to investigate, and it was the police that requested the arrest warrant based on probable cause.
So why is he suing Apple, instead of the police? Obviously, because Apple has more money.
This was a routine case of mistaken identity. This happens all the time. The matter was quickly cleared up, and he was released. Sure, it could have all been handled better if the police had infinite resources
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:5, Interesting)
The matter was quickly cleared up, and he was released
Four times in four states, but the fourth one is still pending. He recieved his first summons over the false charges June of last year. Apparently it's not being cleared up all that quickly.
Consider, all this because Apple took a known shoplifter's word for it when he gave them his name. Of course, we all know a shoplifter's word is as good as gold!
The police should just have shot him (Score:2)
Then there would be no threat of any law suit.
Outside the US, police would have asked him a few questions, gone back to confirm the facts, and that would be the end of it. The whole arrest and presumably detention with handcuffs etc. does not happen for an indirect shop lifting suspicion.
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Apparently it's not being cleared up all that quickly.
Indeed. They should pay BILLIONS!
Consider, all this because Apple took a known shoplifter's word for it when he gave them his name.
Actually no. It's all because the police ran with all the information they were presented and are slow to clear up the misunderstanding. Look tough break kid, but maybe you should be compensated your current wage * the number of hours you actually talked to people about this and go buy yourself an ice-cream or something.
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Negligence does not give cause for a suit.
Re:one.billion.DOLLARS! (Score:4, Insightful)
or did they say this is his picture and this is his verified ID?
Apple has no ability to "verify" IDs.
Apple provided the police with the shoplifter's photo, and the name he used.
The police then arrested a guy who looked nothing like the photo.
How is that Apple's fault?
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or did they say this is his picture and this is his verified ID?
Apple has no ability to "verify" IDs.
Apple provided the police with the shoplifter's photo, and the name he used.
The police then arrested a guy who looked nothing like the photo.
How is that Apple's fault?
Negligence? If you're going to require IDs and are using facial recognition software for identifying shoplifters, it seems rather strange that non-photo IDs would be acceptable for getting somebody into the database. This also happened multiple times; if at any point before the final time, Apple was informed of the problem, then there is a question of why the misidentification persisted.
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Negligence? If you're going to require IDs and are using facial recognition software for identifying shoplifters, it seems rather strange that non-photo IDs would be acceptable for getting somebody into the database. This also happened multiple times; if at any point before the final time, Apple was informed of the problem, then there is a question of why the misidentification persisted.
You are really beyond stupid. Apple uses security cameras, like everyone else. And they end up with photos of thieves. At that point, you could use iPhoto which is installed on every Mac to find among photos of say 10,000 shoplifters all photos belonging to the same person. So you get say 16 photos of the same person, in different stores or on different days, and you know there is a serial thief.
That doesn't give you _any_ id of the thief. But if you have information that _might_ help catching the thief,
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Negligence would mean there is no case here.
Malicious prosecution requires malice.
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1. Why hasn't Apple asked to have all charges dropped yet?
2. Why didn't they stop reporting this guy, or at least tell the police that they knew it wasn't his real name?
Responsibility does not end when you report someone to the police, especially if you know, or should reasonably have known that you made a mistake.
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2. Why didn't they stop reporting this guy, or at least tell the police that they knew it wasn't his real name?
They're not reporting him and they do not know its not his name.
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So why is he suing Apple, instead of the police? Obviously, because Apple has more money.
The police have immunity. The prosecutors have immunity. The judge who signed the arrest warrants have immunity. Apple does not.
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>"When you make serious allegations against someone in 4 states you'd better be damned sure you have it right. They didn't."
While I agree with you, why in the world would the police ARREST this guy? I mean, yeah, call him in for questioning or drop by for an interview. But to arrest someone when the photo is obviously not him is WAY OVER THE TOP. It was a non-violent crime, after the fact, with no witnesses, and bogus "evidence." If it were me, I would sue both Apple AND the police department that ar
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I’m sorry, but I don’t see why Apple should be party to this suit. Exactly what did THEY do wrong?
They had the most money
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While I agree with you, why in the world would the police ARREST this guy?
They had probable cause based on the false information Apple provided. What else would they do?
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>"They had probable cause based on the false information Apple provided. What else would they do?"
Open an investigation.
Examine the "evidence".
Talk with the guy.
Compare the photo(s) to him.
See if any of it makes sense.
THEN decide if there is probable cause based on that investigation. If there is, THEN arrest him and charge him.
With a non-violent, after-the-fact crime, there is no reason to arrest first and ask questions later.
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"Reported it...as if it was established fact."
There's quite a lot of that going on these days.
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:5, Insightful)
They mindlessly attached one person's ID to another person's face and reported it to the police as if it was established fact.
They had photos of a thief. And they had an ID that the thief dropped. It was established fact that they had photos of the thief, and an ID that the thief dropped.
If someone broke in your home, and your Ring camera took a photo, and you found the library card of an unknown person at your home, you would hand that over to the police, and the police would give the owner of the library card a visit. Common sense. Apparently the mention of "Apple" turns off common sense.
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Apparently the mention of "Apple" turns off common sense.
Apparently, Apple's testimony to the police turns off all common sense too. It takes two to tango. ;)
(I don't actually know who is right or wrong, just pointing out an issue with what you said and the direction you were going.)
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When you make serious allegations against someone in 4 states you'd better be damned sure you have it right. They didn't.
They mindlessly attached one person's ID to another person's face and reported it to the police as if it was established fact.
They made no allegations. And attaching the ID to the person's face was an established fact. That person had that ID..Fact. ... police made accusations.
Apple reported the facts
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The cops are the ones who are supposed to make sure it's right. Apple gave the cops the information they had. The cops didn't both verifying if it was correct before making an arrest.
Replace Apple with "your ex-wife," "the neighbour who hates you" or "some whack-a-doodle on Slashdot" and you hopefully see the problem with that approach.
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:4, Insightful)
It sure sounds like the basis is that Apple has a billion dollars, and the plaintiff would also like to have a billion dollars.
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Justice would say take a billion from Apple, give a million to the guy, and give the punitive amount to some organization with a strong history of protecting personal rights in relation to technology. EFF? Yeah, the law doesn't work that way, but only because the law is blind to justice.
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Actually, I think punitive damages ARE appropriate, at least if Apple requested that he be arrested. That the police are also at fault is clear, but that doesn't exonerate Apple. Since the police tend to do what large corporations request, the large corporations should be held responsible. It *would* be better if the word of a wealthy man was considered more valid than the word of a poor man, but that's not the way the system works. So if the wealthy man can be held more responsible, that would be as
Whoops! What a typo. (Score:2)
It *would* be better if the word of a wealthy man was **not** considered more valid than the word of a poor man, but that's not the way the system works. So if the wealthy man can be held more responsible, that would be as fair as the system gets.
Re: Why is Apple to blame? (Score:2)
As I just wrote above, this isn't the kind of case where exemplary (punitive) damages seem appropriate. Plaintiff should be paid to make good any expenses losses and anguish suffered as a result of Apple's contribution to the the heavy handed policing here. That may be in the tens of thousands. One.billion.dollars?! Tell him he's dreamin'
Actually, being arrested by the police in a situation like this is just tough luck. The police had reasonable grounds to suspect him. And they cleared up the situation and released him. There is no reason for any compensation at all. Nobody gets compensation in a situation like this. Would have been different if the thief had dropped a photo ID because then they should have noticed beforehand that he was the wrong guy.
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Yep this is a straight up case up case of identity theft. The thief steals an identity, then uses that identity to perform a crime and the blame gets assigned to the victim of identity theft. I'm pretty sure this has happened before, but without the party that was swindled by the fake identity bein
There is no such thing as Identity Theft (Score:2, Troll)
Mr Ousmane Bah's "identity" hasn't been "stolen", he's had the
same identity all along and continues to have it to this day.
I'm pretty sure he was Mr Ousmane Bah before the incidents,
was Ousmane Bah at the time the of the incidents, and is
still Ousmane Bah now.
He did not wake up one morning thinking "F*ck, who am I today?
I think my very own identity could have been... *horror*
stolen!?"
It wasn't him who was a victim, at least not until his wrongful
arrest.
Now Apple, on the other hand, has been a victim of frau
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Now Apple, on the other hand, has been a victim of fraud. Somebody claimed to be Ousmane Bah, and they believed it. While nobody stole anything from Ousmane Bah, somebody did steal something from Apple by claiming to be somebdoy they trusted, and by Apple being sufficiently naive (or careless) to believe that.
It is unlikely that it happened that way. It looks more like we had a serial thief, who was found stealing on a surveillance camera in multiple stores, and who somehow managed to drop Bah's card with name and address on it.
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Somebody dropped Bah's card and they thought it was Bah himself.
Somebody claimed to be Bah and they believed it.
Same thing to me, the claim doesn't necessarily have to be verbal. Could be implicit.
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I know the definition. My point was that "text book identity theft" itself is a scam. It's a deliberate plot from banks to make *you* responsible when *they* give your money to the wrong guy because they couldn't be bothered to design a system to reliably check your identity.
There were times when random guys cleaning out your bank savings was considered "bank robbery", and the bank was in for the damage. Then, with the advent of wire transfer and computers in the 70s and 80s, check fraud appeared, and it wa
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Replying to myself to clarify: Apple is here in a similar situation. They designed a system that does not work without flaws, and when those systems err and cause costs and distress to uninvolved bystanders, everybody shrugs "it's identity theft, nothing Apple could have done about it; the other guy should suck it up".
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1) An interim learner's permit *IS* a form of ID..
Depends on what kind of iterim leraner's permit that was.
Driver's license? Ok, I'll take that as an ID. Interm (nurse) leraner's permit from the local hispotal, or an interm leraner' license from the local gym, market, hardware store? Only in the sense that a piece of toliet paper with my name on it is a form of ID.
(Maybe TFA specifies that, but I can't be bothered to check if not even the abstract specifies that. Go ahead, hang me for that -- this is /.)
2) Apple simply provided the police with the information they had about the crime which took place. As they should have.
Apple didn't arrest anyone.
Apple didn't charge anyone with a crime.
Depends how they provided it. Did they say "this is
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Because apple has lots of money and will possibly pay an 'ethnic' person a tidy sum of from in order to avoid the bad press associated with any perceived bias.
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is still responsible for the affects of misrepresentations or inaccurate representations that Apple made to the police.
My hypothetical used game shop is robbed by someone who presents identification to me. I provide a copy of the details on the ID to the police along with the footage from my security system when I file a report. How the police follow through with this information is not my responsibility as the business owner.
What if they gave me a stolen ID. How would I know that? Should I not give any information provided to the police because I should somehow suspect it to be false?
Re:Why is Apple to blame? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're leaving out the part where it's your facial recognition software that falsely tags an innocent man. If it was just the cops making this fuck-up, then it would just be on the cops. Now its on you as well.
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You're leaving out the part where it's your facial recognition software that falsely tags an innocent man. If it was just the cops making this fuck-up, then it would just be on the cops. Now its on you as well.
No, his facial recognition system provided the evidence that the guy was innocent. A facial recognition system can't falsely tag an innocent man, because the faces are different.
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No he's leaving out nothing. His system identified someone and then *all* known information was provided to the police. What the police do with it is up to them.
If it was just the cops making this fuck-up
Interesting word there. "fuck-up". To me it sounds like something was reported, the police acted, investigated, found there was no issue and the problem was solved. But I agree we should pay $one BILLION to every person who interacts with police. That would at least bring the black community out of poverty.
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The cops tell you that the ID doesn't match the person on the CCTV and they are no longer investigating them.
Next week you see the same person stealing something at your branch in the next state, and hand over the CCTV and the same name, the one you know is wrong. You don't mention that the police in the first state previously determined that the name is incorrect.
Isn't there such as thing as "wasting police time" in the US? At the least the word should go out to ignore Apple facial recognition until they b
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Next week you see the same person stealing something at your branch in the next state, and hand over the CCTV and the same name, the one you know is wrong.
Not what happened. charges already existed. The police told the prosecutor in Jersey he wasn't the guy on the video. Jersey prosecutor hasn't dropped the charges.
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Further in most sane jurisdictions filing knowingly false information to the court is perjury, which usually has a maximum sentence of life imprisonment (though that is usually reserved for really serious offences around murder). Anything filed after the first case was thrown out is a world of hurt for Apple. Apple's legal council should be advising them to settle (obviously not for one billion) as quickly as possible.
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Further in most sane jurisdictions filing knowingly false information to the court is perjury
No its filing false information, But Apple did not do that. They provided what they had. Apple did not file more charges. This is all sloppy police work and prosecution. Prosecutors in Jersey were told by boston police that the man on video was not the defendant but have not dropped the charges.
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(because you never corrected your in-store facial recognition system).
There is no in-store facial recognition system.
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Sounds good to me. This kind of thing could dog the kid the rest of his life. Good luck on getting a billion, though.
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Apple are legally liable civilly and possibly criminally if Apple gave false information -- it doesn't matter if it was a mistake or error:
Citation please?
Apple would certainly be liable for knowingly giving false information to the police, but merely handing over to police false information that was given to them is an entirely different matter. Isn't it the police's job, not Apples, to investigate the evidence and see where it leads?
Re: Why is Apple to blame? (Score:2)
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Apple has a duty to accurately represent what they tell authorities.
They did.
Apple are legally liable civilly and possibly criminally if Apple gave false information -- it doesn't matter if it was a mistake or error: Apple is still responsible for the affects of misrepresentations or inaccurate representations that Apple made to the police.
Nope. Police statements are immune from defamation/libel. Malicious prosecution requires malice.
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Nope. Police statements are immune from defamation/libel.
You're very wrong there. Statements made to police that come to be shared with 3rd parties and in court can be both Defamation and Libel AND criminal as well;
making a complaint to authorities and falsely reporting to them you have identified the offender, and their Name Address is (X)/(Y) is a very serious matter ---
and despite being made aware of the issue, to this day Apple were alleged to have refused to withdraw/correct their false allegatio
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Criminal filings are not actionable as defamation. They are privileged. This entire suit will be tossed before it hits court.
Idiot should have kept his mouth shut... Now Apple has to litigate it and will likely sue him for libel and win, as his statements are full of lies.
By the way prosecutors withdraw charges, Apple has nothing to do with this. Apple has nothing to withdraw they only provided information to the police. The police and prosecutors investigated the crimes and are responsible for the charges.
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Care to indicate what states are doing this?
Hell, at $1500, I think that's over the amount it takes to switch from a misdemeanor to a felony....??
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California.
The local police call it "Catch n Release", and the police know it is functionally ignored, and therefore they tend to ignore petty crimes. The result of an arrest is booking into jail and immediate release on bail. The criminals all know this, and they keep doing what they do, knowing the courts and system can't hold them for any length of time. Anything considered "non-violent" is catch n release, including Grand Theft Auto.
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Wow...just....wow.
It sounds like CA is really going down the drains
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You're supposed to go to court. You don't have to. Nothing happens if you don't show up. Maybe the next time they catch you, you'll stay in jail, but that is debatable, as jails are "overcrowded" and liberal judges require prisoners released if they aren't violent. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
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No, but its reasonable for us to blame them for accusing the wrong person of raping them.
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Apple reported no false information. A guy using this ID was seen stealing. no false information there.
Criminal charges require intent.
Police reports are not subject to defamation. No basis for a suit.
Another case of jumping the gun due to race. (Score:1, Interesting)
The charges were dropped, but Apple still grievously had the individual charged without having anyone check the validity of the ID first and the police did not check the ID before the arrest was made. If his ID was reported stolen then why did Apple not insist on checking for this first with the police? Racially motivated expedience?
I hope he gets a great payday from this and it serves as a lesson to retailers to check digital records and not jump to conclusions about digital records which include facial I
Re:Another case of jumping the gun due to race. (Score:4, Insightful)
If his ID was reported stolen then why did Apple not insist on checking for this first with the police?
Because it is not Apple's job to be the police. The police should be the police.
Are you seriously suggesting that corporations start doing independent criminal investigations, and be given access to ID databases?
What about a private citizen who is robbed? Should he also be required to conduct a criminal investigation, including cross checking ID databases, before filing a complaint?
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You don't get to say "oh, you were the wrong guy? Sorry, our systems are a bit shit kthx bai."
It was the police, not Apple, who had the information that his ID had been reported stolen.
There is no way that Apple could have known that.
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There is no way that Apple could have known that.
Even after the first three investigations came back as "wrongly identified"? Did the police not bother to tell Apple they repeatedly fingered the wrong guy?
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Start the case with racially motivated malicious prosecution to get it out of the civil realm
Requires you prove malice. That's pretty much impossible.
Apple Denies it Uses Facial Recognition Technology (Score:1)
"The suit insinuates Appleâ(TM)s retail stores use facial recognition technology to identify shoppers, which an Apple spokesperson denied to KTVU."
https://www.phillyvoice.com/te... [phillyvoice.com]
$1 billion? (Score:2)
Does that number even mean anything? Isn't there a law against such outlandish claims?
If not, why specify an amount, just sue for infinity.
Re:$1 billion? (Score:5, Insightful)
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We live in a world where the financial damage from downloading music is apparently more than the amount of money that has ever existed so sure, why not.
Think about how much more wealth would exist then if people would stop downloading music. People who download music for free are destroying the wealth that our society would otherwise benefit from.
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Think about how much wealth would be created if we just took all music and media that have ever been archived, put them in one Big Box, and let everyone in the world have a copy of the Box for one day, like the Stanley Cup. It would be all the money in the world multiplied by all the people in the world!
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there's a finite amount of wealth in the world, tied to natural resources
That's not how money works anymore, either.
Money is tied to anything we may trade, be it goods or services.
i.e., if I need a BJ, I pay a hooker. If that hooker needs a ride, I may carry her to her destination, also for a fee.
Whatever we use to facilitate that barter, is money. That's how fiat currency works.
Tying it to natural resources was always a dumb idea, it was just simple.
Show ID at a Crapple store? WTF for? (Score:2)
What do you need to show ID to buy at an Apple store? They don't sell liquor, smokes, or guns last I checked.
I've never been asked for my papers at an Apple store, when paying cash or with card. I've been asked to show ID to set up a post-paid phone account or make changes, but I've generally handled that directly through the carrier, not via Apple.
If I were asked for papers to buy something, I'd probably tell the genius to pleasure themselves with power tool and buy somewhere else.
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What do you need to show ID to buy at an Apple store? They don't sell liquor, smokes, or guns last I checked.
You don't. A serial thief, caught on camera multiple times, dropped an ID. The obvious assumption is that it might be his ID, and if you go to the address on the ID, you catch the thief. Apple didn't ask for ID. Plenty of stupid burglars have never been asked for ID, and got caught by dropping their ID or something identifying them at the crime scene. Unfortunately, the ID that the thief dropped was also stolen.
Why only a billion? (Score:1)
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A trillion makes you sound ridiculous while you lift your pinky to the mouth.
If this flies (Score:2)
Could the gentleman please tell us the steps to repeat the process?
You can arrest me wrongly for a billion anytime. Twice on a Sunday!
No validity at all (Score:2)
You can not sue for libel or defamation due to a police report.
For wrongful prosecution you must prove malice. That is that Apple really hated this guy and purposely was out to get him.
Not a chance here.
He may have a pretty good case for a charge malpractice against his lawyer for taking his money.
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When did anybody consider /. a breaking news site, noob? There are many many other sources for breaking news.
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Next week on Slashdot: "Titanic hits iceberg; hundreds dead"
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You're only over a week late to report this!
You don't know how this site works do you?
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So, this guy is suing because Apple gave him a facial. I don't blame him.
Applesauce is good for the skin.
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Dear filter, it's not like yelling, it is yelling.
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How? Why wouldn't they get cards too?
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This person was an adult. The headline tries to make it sound like he's a kid. Typical sort of media distortion you can expect from "journalists" these days.
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... in installments.
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He might get a set of ear phones. Not that far away from the settlement he's asking for.
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No evidence any technology was used.