Mass Production of iPhones To Start In India 110
Apple is poised to begin mass production of iPhones in India this year, according to Foxconn Technology Group Chairman Terry Gou. This marks a big shift for the largest assembler of Apple's handsets that has long concentrated production in China. Bloomberg reports: Gou said that Prime Minister Narendra Modi has invited him to India as his Taiwanese company plans its expansion in the country. Apple has had older phones produced at a plant in Bangalore for several years, but now will expand manufacturing to more recent models. Bloomberg News reported this month that Foxconn is ready to start trial production of the latest iPhones in the country before it starts full-scale assembly at its factory outside the southern city of Chennai.
India has become the fastest-growing smartphone market in the world, while China stagnates and Apple loses share to local competitors such as Huawei Technologies Co. and Xiaomi Corp. Apple has been a minor player in India, in part because of its high prices, but local manufacturing would help the Cupertino, California-based company avoid import duties of 20 percent. It's not yet clear how Apple's steps into India will affect its China operations. China has been the company's most important manufacturing base for years, home to Foxconn's biggest facilities and hundreds of other partners.
India has become the fastest-growing smartphone market in the world, while China stagnates and Apple loses share to local competitors such as Huawei Technologies Co. and Xiaomi Corp. Apple has been a minor player in India, in part because of its high prices, but local manufacturing would help the Cupertino, California-based company avoid import duties of 20 percent. It's not yet clear how Apple's steps into India will affect its China operations. China has been the company's most important manufacturing base for years, home to Foxconn's biggest facilities and hundreds of other partners.
And the Gates of Hell Have Opened (Score:1)
God save their souls!
And so china enters the first world.... (Score:5, Insightful)
A chinese friend recently complained to me that while life in china has gotten good, and wages not that far from what he was making when he was working in spain, so has the rent, cost of living etc and now manufacturers are picking up and moving to factories in India, the Philipines and Africa.
Welcome to the first world China. Might I suggest leaning on your government to get some sort of welfare thing going, now that you've made it, all the jobs are going bye bye.
I don't think it's that (Score:2)
The US and Europe can't do that because the mega corps want to pocket the extra $50-$100 bucks per phone needed to make them without borderline slave labor and a reckless disregard for environmental safety.
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India does this with everything - they demand local offsets (in many cases equivalent to 100% of foreign purchases) or local production as a means to have an external entity pay for increased education and skilled jobs improvements in India. Its also cost them significantly along the way - currently 17 years into a fighter aircraft purchase competition thats been cancelled something like 4 times now because western companies won't guarantee under contract the quality of local Indian manufacturers chosen by
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Welcome to the first world China. Might I suggest leaning on your government to get some sort of welfare thing going, now that you've made it, all the jobs are going bye bye.
China is a first world country with a third world country inside it.
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A chinese friend recently complained to me that while life in china has gotten good, and wages not that far from what he was making when he was working in spain, so has the rent, cost of living etc and now manufacturers are picking up and moving to factories in India, the Philipines and Africa.
Yep, this is how the world is lifted by global trade. Production moves to the place where labor is cheapest, meaning where living standards are the lowest. As incomes and living standards are lifted by this new (to the area) industry, other low-cost regions begin to get more attractive and some of the production starts to move there. The areas the production moves from are harmed by this to some degree, but the harm to them is far less than the benefit to those who are lifted up, because the game is not
Old News (Score:5, Insightful)
2/3 of China is below the poverty line
You can be forgiven for thinking that, because it was not that long ago what you say was true and you don't get a lot of news about China in the mainstream press.
But these days the poverty rate has been driven to 3.1 percent [borgenproject.org], because China has been working really hard to live the very poorest out of poverty.
Now China is of course known to cook some books, but even with that factored in they are far from having 2/3 of China below the poverty line these days.
Re: Old News (Score:1)
With an Iron fist. Mass relocations. Villages and towns erradicated. If you disagree zip off to communist work camps you go. You do as the communists say not as you want like true liberty.
Re:Old News (Score:4, Informative)
2/3 of China is below the poverty line
You can be forgiven for thinking that, because it was not that long ago what you say was true and you don't get a lot of news about China in the mainstream press.
But these days the poverty rate has been driven to 3.1 percent [borgenproject.org], because China has been working really hard to live the very poorest out of poverty.
Now China is of course known to cook some books, but even with that factored in they are far from having 2/3 of China below the poverty line these days.
It's not a matter of cooking books but cooking definitions. The poverty level often used for such breathtaking advancements in Chinese poverty eradication is an income of less than $2/day. Yes, earning around $500-600 per year is considered above the poverty level. This particular definition allows the China government to aim "to eliminate absolute poverty by 2020" [xinhuanet.com].
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The poverty level depends on what you need to live a reasonable life in a given country, so of course it will be lower in China. $2/day is not enough in big cities, but in rural areas it is.
Back in 1981 some 88% of the population was living on less than the modern equivalent of $2/day (adjusted for inflation), so no matter how you frame it it's clear that the majority of people have seen a considerable increase in their income and quality of life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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The poverty level depends on what you need to live a reasonable life in a given country, so of course it will be lower in China. $2/day is not enough in big cities, but in rural areas it is.
Back in 1981 some 88% of the population was living on less than the modern equivalent of $2/day (adjusted for inflation), so no matter how you frame it it's clear that the majority of people have seen a considerable increase in their income and quality of life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
For the most part, Chinese government numbers are more trustworthy on a relative basis than an absolute basis. For example, estimates of economic growth are generally regarded outside of China as inflated, but they are nonetheless useful to indicate the movement of economic growth.
So, I agree that there has been obvious and dramatic improvements in the percentage of Chinese living in poverty. This is true by many measures. However, the specific absolute numbers for poverty are not trustworthy. $2/day is
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I recommend watching Hans Rosling, its quite insightful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Dude, that's one of the best things I've ever seen. I typically don't give thanks in /., but shit dude, thanks for sharing that!
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2/3 of China is below the poverty line
You can be forgiven for thinking that, because it was not that long ago what you say was true and you don't get a lot of news about China in the mainstream press.
But these days the poverty rate has been driven to 3.1 percent [borgenproject.org], because China has been working really hard to live the very poorest out of poverty.
Now China is of course known to cook some books, but even with that factored in they are far from having 2/3 of China below the poverty line these days.
It's not a matter of cooking books but cooking definitions. The poverty level often used for such breathtaking advancements in Chinese poverty eradication is an income of less than $2/day. Yes, earning around $500-600 per year is considered above the poverty level. This particular definition allows the China government to aim "to eliminate absolute poverty by 2020" [xinhuanet.com].
Are you considering poverty strictly on daily gross income without taking into account regional costs of living?
Word of advice: don't.
Bro, you forgot to factor in regional costs of living. In some areas $2/day is enough to live well out of poverty.
It's the same in every country, even here in the US. A single person making $30K/year would be one cunt-hair close to living in the gutter in, say, San Francisco or Miami.
That same gross income would make the same person live well above the poverty line in
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Bro, you forgot to factor in regional costs of living. In some areas $2/day is enough to live well out of poverty.
I agree that the different costs of living are an important consideration. Do you personally know that $2/day is enough to subsist in any part of China, or have you read such numbers anywhere? That's where my skepticism lies. That China has made breathtaking advances in lifting many of its people out of poverty is obvious. That $2/day is a useful threshold for setting the poverty level is nowhere near as obvious.
It's the same in every country, even here in the US. A single person making $30K/year would be one cunt-hair close to living in the gutter in, say, San Francisco or Miami.
That same gross income would make the same person live well above the poverty line in Sebring, FL.
Yes, there are obviously differences in costs of living from region to region within any cou
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Bro, you forgot to factor in regional costs of living. In some areas $2/day is enough to live well out of poverty.
I agree that the different costs of living are an important consideration. Do you personally know that $2/day is enough to subsist in any part of China, or have you read such numbers anywhere? That's where my skepticism lies. That China has made breathtaking advances in lifting many of its people out of poverty is obvious. That $2/day is a useful threshold for setting the poverty level is nowhere near as obvious.
It's the same in every country, even here in the US. A single person making $30K/year would be one cunt-hair close to living in the gutter in, say, San Francisco or Miami.
That same gross income would make the same person live well above the poverty line in Sebring, FL.
Yes, there are obviously differences in costs of living from region to region within any country. However, there are minimal costs of living in any area. In the US, the official poverty level for a single person in the contiguous 48 states is $12,140. I personally lived below the official poverty level growing up in a cheap area in the US. It's possible but not easy.
The question for this thread is what a useful poverty level should be for China. I've visited Beijing as a tourist and found the city to be nowhere near cheap, i.e., there's no way anyone could come close to living in Beijing on $2/day. How much do the costs of living fall when living in the countryside? I have no personal experience, and I couldn't google any data on this. However, although we might have visions of dirt-poor Chinese peasants who can live on 10% or 1% of what people in the cities pay, what are the real numbers? Absent even anecdotal accounts, I'm skeptical about the $2/day poverty level for any one specific location in China, let alone as a national poverty level.
A $2/day is certainly not applicable in Beijing or any of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier metropolitan areas, but it does work in rural areas. I grew up in a poor country ,Nicaragua, the 2nd poorest country in the Western Hemisphere actually. You could actually put a roof over your head and eat 3 meals on $2/day if you live in the rural east/south east regions of the country. However, it's barely enough on the north, certainly insufficient in the capital or the urban centers on the Western coast of the country.
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Also remember that Communist regimes *lie*, wholesale, about their economies. Robert Heinlein wrote, decades ago, about the fraudulent population and economic claims of the USSR after he and his wife visited and found no sign of the booming shipyards, rails, or family growth they claimed after WWII. We see the same sort of nonsense now from both Russia and China, as borne out by observable date *not* filtered through their press: light from population and industry caputed by night-time satellite photos.
http [investors.com]
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Also remember that Communist regimes *lie*, wholesale, about their economies. Robert Heinlein wrote, decades ago, about the fraudulent population and economic claims of the USSR after he and his wife visited and found no sign of the booming shipyards, rails, or family growth they claimed after WWII. We see the same sort of nonsense now from both Russia and China, as borne out by observable date *not* filtered through their press: light from population and industry caputed by night-time satellite photos.
https://www.investors.com/poli... [investors.com]
Well, China's system does not qualify as a communist system (or even state) at all.
And it's not only them. Just look at us under the 45, we are winning, bigly, trade wars, so easy to win, eat coal for breakfast and shit rolls of dollars and gold pellets.
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Trump IS INDEED an asshole, but that doesn't make China's decades of being an authoritarian shithole any less palpable. Go wave your Winnie the Pooh flag if you don't believe me, Chi-Coms will love your independent spirit.
All the way to a hole in the ground.
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You need to pull your finger out of your ass right now.
I know American not being NUMBER ONE is scary, but resting on your laurels is exactly the best way to make that a self-fulfilling prophesy.
China's middle/consumer class is now so large, that it can support vast domestic production. China doesn't have to accept waste re-processing from 3rd world countries anymore, and soon it won't have to make Walmart shit for rednecks anymore.
You can stick your fingers in your ears, scream fox news talking points, and
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Trade secrets existed in Roman law. Copyright existed since the development of the printing press, with some earlier restriction on who could view or copy sacred documents. That is not even counting the "Ark of the Covenant", used to encase the 10 commandments of Hebrew law, as a form of copyright protection. There are even some signs that ancient Greece had patents.
Modern corporations and modern law have refined the practice to a ludicrous extent in many cases. But that hardly makes it a "new concept"..
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You must be old here.
Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
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It's a clever move. Serve a rapidly growing market with patriotic "Made In $YourCountry" products, and make your business more resilient to trade wars and tariffs at the same time.
Indian Market (Score:3)
This production is for the Indian Market not for export. Indian govt was getting worried as it has a large trade deficit and the largest item on it is electronics (even more than oil) so they were pushing manufacturers to manufacture in India instead of importing fully built units. Parts will still come from Japan, China,USA,Korea, Taiwan and UK as for other iPhones but having it being manufactured in India does reduce the import bill substantially. As a plus side if Apple wants to set up Apple stores in In
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That will certainly incentivize their largest market - US consumers - to buy products from India instead of China.
Nah, we are just going to start blaming Indians for losing factories jobs... and we'll find a way to do retroactively, for job losses related to NAFTA or something. Then we'll start a trade war with them, cuz, you know, we are both awesome and also victims looking for a culprit and shit like that. That's how we roll.
Factories have been leaving China for years (Score:5, Interesting)
This is not new. Entire industries have been slowly moving to lower labor cost or lower political risk countries for many years. I've been in the consumer electronics business, watching the labor cost in China rise and rise for over 20yrs. It's not politics or conspiracy - just a natural economic rebalancing. China has entered "interesting" times... It will be interesting to see how well the people tolerate the totalitarian assholes when the economy collapses.
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Don't believe the hype. Real GDP in China is negative. The 6% number is completely fabricated by the government, mostly based on heavily manipulated government investment and real estate. I have lived in China about half of the time for the last 20yrs. Many of our suppliers have closed or collapsed and reformed into different industries to try to survive. Our country (USA) has a real economy and freedoms the people of China are still dreaming of.
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The trade deficit is not domestic China GDP. I am in China and know what I see from my suppliers, about half of which have collapsed over the last 5yrs. You think you know what is going on, but you are just quoting what you read from the news media.
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They inflated the GDP to get capitalists to send foreign money into China. It worked like a charm, kickstarted their economy, and
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It was growing for a long time, yes. The days of growth are over though.
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Their economy is going through the same tradition that western ones did, from low level manufacturing to skills and services based.
The government has been doing a huge amount to make that transition easier, with a heavy focus on education. Industries such as electric vehicles and renewable energy are seen as key, with China aiming to dominate in order to secure those future jobs.
These changes are never easy, but the government is well aware of what needs to happen to keep people happy.
Question (Score:2)
Honest question. Does India have anything that it manufactures that's high tech and high quality?
Bollywood movies! (Score:2)
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We know for sure it isn't toilets or sanitation products.
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India is now up to about 90% of housholds having a toilet: https://www.statista.com/chart... [statista.com]
They built 80 million of the things.
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Samsung and Huawei have long manufactured in India. Apple was the odd one out.
India also manufactures ICs and chips for electronics like TVs etc. It does not have a CPU fab though the govt is trying to get Intel or AMD to set one up. Lot of the VLSI design work for both is already done in India.
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Yes, several spots of very high technology where the Government intervened early - like in telecom:
http://www.cdot.in/cdotweb/web... [www.cdot.in]
But it's not consistent -- note the PHP website.
Does India have anything that it manufactures that (Score:2, Informative)
India has been making and launching satellites for donkey years now. India even had a Nokia factory(when Nokia phones were was selling)which made 300,000 phones per day.India has tech centers of all high tech companies where lots of vlsi design is done. India recently successfully tested an anti satillite missile.All global auto makers have indian plants which make decent cars. India has a middle class whose size is more than the population of USA
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