Dutch Regulators Want To Know Whether Apple is Favoring Its Own Apps (cnn.com) 127
Apple has another antitrust problem in Europe. Dutch regulators said Thursday that they have opened an investigation into whether Apple has abused its market position by giving preferential treatment to its own apps. From a report: The Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets said in a statement that app providers have submitted evidence "which seem to indicate that Apple abuses its position in the App Store." The regulator said it had been studying the issue for 10 months. It said the probe would initially focus on Apple, but it also called on app providers to report any issues with Google's Play Store. "Apps have increasingly become important parts of our daily lives," said the regulator, which added that it "expects Apple and Google to exhibit fair and transparent behavior."
Apple said in a statement that it is "confident" the review "will confirm all developers have an equal opportunity to succeed in the App Store." The move comes after Spotify launched a similar complaint against Apple last month with the European Commission.
Is water wet? (Score:5, Insightful)
History of this issue is interesting (Score:2)
It wasn't til more than 3 years later that Apple announced availability of 3rd party developer apps, tightly quality controlled by Apple.
Now Apple is going to be regulated in this market that they are entirely responsible for creating in the first place.
Not sure what I think of this. Is it regulatory overreach?
In theory, there's nothing except network effect stopping new company X fro
Liberty vs Free Market (Score:2)
Not sure what I think of this. Is it regulatory overreach?
You're free to create and run a walled garden as you see fit. But you're not free to operate as a business in EU jurisdiction. Once you start accepting money in exchange for goods and services you get regulated by local governments nearly anywhere in the world except Somalia.
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Somalia is a failed Communist state; it operated according to "Scientific Communism", which inevitably imploded into chaos.
Lack of enforced laws due to corruption contributed more to that than any particular ideology. As experiments go, Somalia isn't great because it doesn't conclusively tell us much.
Thanks for taking my offhanded remark so seriously.
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Only one of those is supported when evaluating Somalia. And even then it's an incomplete conclusion.
not law by decree of some authoritarian.
I fear you're confusing your right-left spectrum again.
Regulation should allow for quality control (Score:2)
If user choice of what app does every key function is not only allowed but required by regulators, the complexity of the user experience will rise beyond many peoples' comprehension. The utility they get out of the ecosystem will decline.
Quality-control (and avoidance of technical debt on a platform) is a legitimate GOOD that should be seriously w
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If you have a completely open-entry apps market, it will turn into a cesspool of malware, misleading fraudware. i.e. like the total set of websites on WWW.
If brick and mortar stores were completely unregulated we'd see basically the same thing. Unsafe products, mislabeled products, etc. These problems happen in less developed places in the world already.
Quality-control (and avoidance of technical debt on a platform) is a legitimate GOOD that should be seriously weighed by market regulators.
Or provided by market regulation. Monopolies aren't the only way to provide high quality malware-free app stores.
If I had any faith that market regulators could be that enlightened when balancing their decisions, I would say, sure, regulate to ensure competition in that market. Right now, I have no faith that anyone other than software architects would know what the hell I'm talking about.
Admittedly I feel that the digital world is too new for bureaucrats to manage effectively. They'd probably do something stupid like make everything copyright protected by default. oops!
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Regulation is a service; it's not magical.
Governments can be transparent, and are in some places to varied degrees. Corporations almost never are by their competitive nature.
Why does your skepticism of monopolies not extend to government?
Really monopolies are a consequence of bad government. Government creates the legal framework that allowed immortal organizations to exist and easily shake off liability.
You are propose that a violently imposed monopoly should be used to save society from a voluntarily grown monopoly. That is an explicitly absurd position!
At least strawmen are gluten-free, otherwise I'd have to object in stronger terms.
You want to know whether your food is Kosher? Well, look for one of the many competing "Kosher Certified" symbols on your boxed food; no government is necessary to achieve useful regulation.
It takes two strawmen to tango. How romantic.
there is a whole industry that devoted to risk management: Insurance, and thus regulation could, for example, be the domain of the insurance industry
Who watches the watchmen... The government regulates insurers already. Risk managem
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You can't have a US business that sells human remains as fresh meat. More government overreach. The free market should decide with their money, if you have more money you get to decide more things. One person, one vote, is clearly un-American!
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Would that be illegal in your eyes?
I'm not the EU. I'm not even in EU citizen. I don't get to make the rules.
What if they started only advertising their house brands in TV commercials and mailing flyers?
I'd argue there is some corruption going on in the EU. Lidl is a huge chain of stores in the EU. They not only have their own house brands they have sucked up over €500m in public grants.
Why would one of the largest retail companies need a bunch of tax payer money. It's total bullshit that the EU is ready to slam US companies and fine them, but actively support and promote anti-competitive practices of EU businesses.
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When iPhone first came out in 2007 [...] It wasn't til more than 3 years later that Apple announced availability of 3rd party developer apps [...]
Sorry, man. You're off by 2 years.
The App Store opened on July 10, 2008, just 1 year after the first iPhone came out in July of 2007. On opening, the App Store had more than 500 applications available.
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Microsoft was mostly responsible for the affordable PC market.
This did not stop antitrust investigations from changing the way they did things in Windows. Microsoft was prevented from 'bundling' their apps and making it hard for anything else to be a default. Apple barely lets anything replace it's own apps as default.
The problem is, iOS and the Apple APP store are and will become separate entities, much like Windows OS and the apps that run on it are completely separate entities, mostly since day 1.
Any and
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The Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets said in a statement that oceanographers have submitted evidence "which seem to indicate that Ocean is wet." The regulator said it had been studying the issue for 10 months. It said the probe would initially focus on bottled water, but it also called on oceanographers to report any issues with wetness to the authorities.
More likely just a case of a bureaucrat trying to justify the existence of his/her job.
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If you think that then you don't understand anti-trust. I think the Dutch government erred here. Apple is a closed platform upon which it can do what it likes. Their key responsibilities exist only to ensuring that customers of their store are treated equally and for the most part they effectively are with the odd case being streaming providers with out of store payment processors.
Other than the last two for which the jury is out, on account of being a completely closed ecosystem where hardware, software, a
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Google, who would never favor its own apps, and Microsoft who would never favor its own apps, would like to investigate whether Apple is favoring its own apps.
Would be nice to know what advantages (Score:4, Interesting)
There's an inherent advantage with some apps shipping with the phone, but beyond that I'm not sure I see what the advantages would be... Apple has been even moving to make more system apps deletable!
Apple apps use the same system frameworks to operate as consumer apps, and are limited by the same access controls to things like photos or location that any other app is. Searching the App Store I've not seen Apple apps like Pages given preference or unwanted appearance in search results.
It would be really interesting to know what advantages they are looking for... Apple doesn't have an inherent benefit from you using Apple apps or not, because whatever app you end up using you are paying Apple for the hardware to run it. That is inertly different than Google with Android apps, where the real money is made by you using Google products and contributing data feeds to Google.
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but beyond that I'm not sure I see what the advantages would be
Showing the Apple apps before the 3rd party ones could be a simple advantage.
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Where do they have that? (Score:5, Interesting)
they do have the "Made By Apple" section on the right side within the App Store.
Opening the App Store right now:
iPhone/iPad: No "Made by Apple" section or tab, not on Today tab, not on Apps tab.
App categories: No "Made by Apple" section.
App Store on Mac: No "Made by Apple" section.
Maybe once they did, but not for some time.
So again, where the the Apple advantage in anything presented by the App Store app? I don't see anything, I see Apple promoting a TON of third party apps. Heck I just went into a travel app for a city I'm visiting, and they promoted a number of alternative transit and mapping apps even though you can just use transit in maps.app.
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Clear bias (Score:2)
If I were more cynical I might wonder if this is the EU's new funding model to make up for the hole that Brexit may end up creating.
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The previous commentator's point is horseshit. The idea of a formal review to prove or disprove that conjecture is - as we can see here - a good idea. It also seems to me that Apple is 'playing fair', but there's no reason not to validate that since the cost to consumers if they're not is potentially substantial.
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Showing the Apple apps before the 3rd party ones could be a simple advantage.
It would be - if they were doing that.
They do not (in App Store search results) and a number of Apple apps are not shipped on device so you have to get them from the App Store just like any other app. In fact when you open the App Store you initially get a "Featured" page these days chock full of non-Apple apps to look at first, before you even search.
So where is the Apple advantage?
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Regulators have been studying complaints for 10 months. It is possible that they've seen patterns that you're missing ?
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It is possible that they've seen patterns that you're missing ?
It sure is which is why the very first thing I said is, it would be great to know what they are thinking are advantages - because that info was not in the article at the link.
Even before they looked at anything though, there had to be some basis to start looking into this claim, right? So what was THAT basis? Also not reported on by article.
I've not seen anything Apple promoting on device for a while and as an iOS developer, I pay more attent
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Even before they looked at anything though, there had to be some basis to start looking into this claim, right? So what was THAT basis? Also not reported on by article.
Maybe they don't want to say before they've build a case.
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If you click on an address in your contact list, it *will not ever* open in any map app but the Apple Maps app. Which sucks hard. You have to copy the text, open the app you want (Google Maps) and paste it in. If you lightly tap it while trying to copy, it opens up the Apple Maps app, wasting time and resources.
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Re: Would be nice to know what advantages (Score:1)
And you're being an Apple fan boi. It's only "reaching" because Apple isn't a monopoly. That very same behavior got Microsoft over a barrel years ago. Actually, even in the past often you could change the default app in Windows but it was so buried and usually you had to do registry hacks to get it to be done. They just had to make it easier and more up front in some markets.
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I know at least one case where Apple iOS has been giving applications signed with Apple's own code-signing certificate some additional entitlement(s) within iOS.
Under iOS, mmap() and mprotect() disallow regular applications to set both +w and +x flags on the same segment.
Mobile Safari, however, has the "dynamic-codesigning" entitlement which enables MAP_JIT to do that. This has allowed Safari to perform just-in-time - compilation to run Javascript faster than third-party web browsers.
Now, it does not seem e
Interesting point... (Score:2)
Under iOS, mmap() and mprotect() disallow regular applications to set both +w and +x flags on the same segment.
Interesting point, that I had forgotten about... it seems like a pretty decent security precaution though, and of limited use to most categories of apps...
Mobile Safari, however, has the "dynamic-codesigning" entitlement which enables MAP_JIT to do that. This has allowed Safari to perform just-in-time - compilation to run Javascript faster than third-party web browsers.
Only if the third party web b
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I was going to write an answer assuming you were honestly asking, and then I recognized the user name as a known Apple shill. So I now know not to expect an answer in good faith.
The bottom line is that Apple absolutely abuses their control of the App Store to punish third parties trying to compete with them. Maps is a simple example - anywhere iOS detects an address, that address will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to tell it to use a third party mapping program instead.
Something similar happens
do state lottery app on ios give apple an 30% cut? (Score:2)
do state lottery app on ios give apple an 30% cut? or are they limited by law to some other payout system?
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If you can purchase something through an iOS app, you have to give Apple a 30% cut, so they must. They may figure it's worth it if it gets people to buy more lottery tickets.
Not correct an app can have its own payment system it doesn't need to use Apples. Apples system is good for a small developer or someone who wants to make it easy for a user to do an in-app purchase Lotteries need the payment pool for prizes and jackpots TMK they don't use apples pavements system
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they don't use apples pavements system.
and apple stopped netflix from doing that. But the lotto by law can't give them 30% did they work out an deal to give the same winners cut that any other store gets?
Many Corrections (Score:2)
I was going to write an answer assuming you were honestly asking,
I am honestly asking, if only I could get an honest response... judging by how much I have to correct here I'm not sure this is one. Note I will not sink to your Cleveland claim you are paid by Google to post negative and misleading Apple content.
The bottom line is that Apple absolutely abuses their control of the App Store to punish third parties trying to compete with them. Maps is a simple example
Not very simple, since Apple heavily promo
I guess I was wrong... (Score:2)
I guess I'll have to take back what I said; no way are you this ignorant by choice, you are indeed obviously paid by Google to undermine competitors.
First off, you'll only be "promoted" them if you go looking for them
False, I found them because I opened the App Store, and in the Apple created (by Apple editors) "Today" page it showed a section for Tokyo apps, which contained the third party nav/transit apps mentioned - I didn't have to look, Apple was promoting them to me!
(On idiotic claim Apple gets cut
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That's only true where Apple likes it. Try writing an app that uses NFC, somehow Apple can but you can't. There is a long list of things Apple can do, but you aren't allowed. Think using your own browser engine, taking creditcard payments for digital products, or even making a link to a place where people can do that.
The consumer authority
Is this for real (Score:2)
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Abuse of monopoly is a real problem, yes.
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I think you'll find that your government is a violent monopoly that needs to be busted up.
No, I actually prefer it that way.
How Apple is a monopoly??? (Score:1)
Are there no other smartphone brands/appstores???
If there are, then Apple is NOT a monopoly & can make any rules in its own appstore!!!
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Sigh. How simple minded you are.
1) Focusing on one specific product does not determine if someone is a monopoly in market.
2) Being a monopoly is not a prerequisite to falling afoul of anti-trust laws.
3) It owning the app store is not a defense against anti-trust laws.
They have defenses and there's actual reasons why this won't actually fly, but I'll let you actually google the basics before we try and explain the reasoning why the regulator is wrong in this case.
OMFG (Score:3, Funny)
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It is Apple's app store.
Apple can make its own app store, and the people in The Netherlands/EU can make their own antitrust laws.
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Right, but you look silly when you compare antitrust laws to McDonalds selling their own hamburgers. However, I must admit you are fully in your right to look silly, if you so desire.
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I buy a car from a certified dealership. It ships with a factory radio. I want an aftermarket radio. Obviously, I have to buy an aftermarket radio that fits the vehicle, otherwise make warranty-breaking modifcations to the car. Surprise! It's an Apple-certified vehicle bought from an Apple dealership. Apple requires that I buy a radio through the dealership, which they collect a percentage
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It is Apple's app store. What the hell do you think it is? What the hell is wrong with Europe? News at 11: Mcdonalds favors its own burgers on its own menu!@#! Holly crap. I'm thinking Burger King does too.
Wrong comparison. McDonald's doesn't bill itself as a burger marketplace where you can also find Wendy's, Burger King, or Krystal. What they are investigating is if Apple is doing the equivalent of a grocery store selling it's own store brand products displayed right up front while offering name brand products "for sale" but shelving them in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying beware of the leopard.
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I think Netherlands is doing a fine job on poverty reduction and education. Why would a government allow monopolistic behaviour from companies? No government in the world wants that. Companies are there to serve the people, not the other way around.
This is not anti-USA, companies in the EU are in some ways more tightly
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If they don't serve the people, why would you allow such a company?
Have you heard of monopolies? The point is that some people (like app makers) are forced to pay Apple. This may or may not be legal.
What fine? There is no fine, and ACM is a consumer protection organization, not the police. If they find that Apple does not comply
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What the hell is wrong with Europe?
They decided to put in place commissions and regulators that insure that companies are investigated and laws are upheld. What a bizarre concept. This is a corporation, why aren't they free to do what they want everywhere!
google play is not locked in unlike apple (Score:2)
google play is not locked in unlike apple.
You can side load around it.
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Algorithmic Bias (Score:4, Insightful)
This is simply algorithmic bias. The stores prioritize apps which have the largest install base and vendors with the overall largest install base. Many of these apps come bundled with the phones and tablets already. These numbers count in their respective stores, increasing not only the individual app's rating, but their vendor's rating as well. Therefor any other app released by the vendor will have a head start over any other apps from another vendor in the respective stores.
so long ago... (Score:2)
Apple's honest response should be (Score:2)
... "Are bears Catholic? Does the Pope..."
OK... they won't respond with that but they've likely already got a slew of canned responses designed to obscure their policies. I won't hold my breath waiting for them to be truly honest.
Well... (Score:3)
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Not so fast.
The key part about Apple is that they have a completely closed ecosystem. There is never an expectation that some 3rd party must be allowed to take part in this ecosystem. The only time anti-trust rulings come into place is if deals exist that either prevent or favour different products or companies over one another *outside your own control*.
MS didn't get screwed because they bundled IE (closed ecosystem). They got screwed because they bundled IE while also ensuring OEMs bundled Windows (distor
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'Open' or 'Closed' what does it matter?
If Apple would like to replace a real OS with their iOS on all their devices, and if Apple would prefer to be the 'standard' OS that everyone uses, what you have there is Microsoft Windows.
It can be argued that, as we move away from Desktop OSs, (and the statistics show this is true-ish) we see 2 dominant players in iOS and Android.
That is a market monopoly. iOS must and will become separate from the Applications that run on it. iOS will be like any other Operating Sys
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'Open' or 'Closed' what does it matter?
It is absolutely fundamental. If you own the entire stack from the top to the bottom than any rule you set on that stack by it's nature can't distort the wider market.
That is a market monopoly. iOS must and will become separate from the Applications that run on it.
No it's not. There is no market. If you own the hardware, then putting software on it does not make it a "market" monopoly. The "market" is completely unaffected by anything you do.
It is NOT a walled-garden, with whatever 'protections' that currently provides Apple, it is an OS that can run Application Software.
I thought you just said it was a market monopoly and the use of the word must and will seem to imply that the OS and the applications on it are not independent. Tha
Ah, the Dutch need taxes. (Score:2)
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This is much easier to hit American companies with all sorts of BS, and then give massive penalties.
Is this the same Netherlands that famously provides a tax haven for American companies to the point where the EU has actively slapped them a few times for their unfair practices?
There's wrong. There's damn wrong, and then there's WindBourne.