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Desktops (Apple) Portables (Apple) iMac

Prioritizing the MacBook Hierarchy of Needs (sixcolors.com) 240

Posted by msmash from the feed-and-speed dept.
Jason Snell, writing for Six Colors: This week on the Accidental Tech Podcast (ATP), John Siracusa floated the concept of a MacBook Hierarchy of Needs, a priority list of features for the next time Apple redesigns the MacBook line, as is rumored to happen later this year. It's a fun thought experiment, because it requires you to rank your wish list of laptop features. That's important, because if I've learned anything in this wacky world of ours, it's that you can never get everything you ask for, so you've got to prioritize.

The ATP hosts all made a "good keyboard" their top priority, an idea that would've been surprising a few years ago but now is almost a given. Yes, of course, Apple laptops need to be fast and reliable and have great displays and good battery life, but the past few years' worth of MacBooks have made a lot of people realize the truth: a bad/unreliable laptop keyboard isn't something you can really work around if you're a laptop user. This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever, and if you're committed to the Mac and every single Mac laptop that's sold uses the exact same keyboard, there's nowhere to run.
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Prioritizing the MacBook Hierarchy of Needs

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  • magsafe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:17AM (#58241594)

    magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

  • NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jsepeta ( 412566 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:25AM (#58241618) Homepage

    If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports, a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same. My MacBook Pro looks ridiculous with 4 dongles hanging off it.

    • Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @03:09AM (#58241700)

      I avoided this problem - and the keyboard problem - buy purchasing a 2015 MacBook Pro.

      In 2018.

      But in reality I have to admit all I did was punt the decision down the road, since there’s no way Ive won’t keep doubling down on the stupid design uber alles ethos. Must be even thinner! Must eliminate those unsightly ports!

    • Think of the person buying their first computer, or a second computer while keeping their first. These people will be buying cables and accessories for this computer. Why put old ports on a new computer? The only accessories that I can think of that don't come in USB-C versions are keyboards and mice, which are not needed all that often on a laptop anyway.

      Tell me, what are you plugging in?

      If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display. If you need a don

      • If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display.

        So my choices are carry round a USB-C to HDMI dongle or preemptively rewire every conference centre I visit so they have USB-C cables not HDMI. Or I can buy a sensible laptop.

        If it's a device with a USB-B port then don't buy a dongle, buy the right cable.

        Right-o I'll just rewire all those devices with builtin cables to have USB-C cables (which I can't use with older laptpos)! Brilliant!

        Or I can get a thinkpad

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Bigbutt ( 65939 )

          Even the Apple external CD is a USB-B so a dongle is needed for that. And two of my cables are for Rocksmith and don't come in USB-C so at least two USB-B dongles for those.

          [John]

      • Why would I buy USB-C when exactly one device in my house has USB-C with the others all having normal USB? Then I need a dongle for everything else!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Bigbutt ( 65939 )

        Dongle for the Media cable. Gives me the HDMI, USB, and USB-C connections.

        HDMI for external monitor. USB for the CD, and USB-C for the Apple keyboard.

        Note that my MacBook 2013 with the HDMI port supports HDMI 2.0 on my monitor but the MacBook 2017 with the external Media adapter only supports HDMI 1.2 (basically not 2.0).

        Power plug.

        Dongle for the Ethernet cable (oddly my MacBook can't connect to my Plex servers wirelessly, only through a wired connection).

        USB dongle for the USB thumb drive (for the occasion

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by berj ( 754323 )

      four dongles? Why the would you do that? What are you connecting? I've got *one* that has multiple USB-A, SD, HDMI and Ethernet.. I connect it less than 5% of the time I'm using my laptop. Most everything I connect now has direct USB-C connections.

      But the idea that people need four (heck.. even two) dongles is ridiculous. I'm sure someone out there needs an RS232 serial port and a VGA port.. but they are going to have dongles pretty much no matter what laptop they buy. To get the normal selection of

      • External graphics, mouse, keyboard, test device. 4 dongles.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by berj ( 754323 )

          That can be done with one adapter with all four ports.

          There are bucketloads of single adapters that will handle all of this and more. They're small, light and cheap.

          • How many are approved by apple and guaranteed not to fry my laptop?
            • Comment removed based on user account deletion
              • To be fair, I am properly being more cautious than most. I work for a small company that wanted an iPhone app and I am basically being entrusted with this laptop. I'm not prepared to hand it back to them with a USB-C port fried and explain that Apple refused to fix it.

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by berj ( 754323 )

                Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

                No. He's just making up stories in his head.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hawk ( 1151 )

      >If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports,
      > a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same.

      Yeah. There's that block of unused room between the 5.25" floppy and the parallel port . . . :)

      hawk

  • I've always used mine in 'clamshell' mode with an external Kinesys ergo keyboard. My almost virginal MacBook Pro keyboard might actually be worth more than the laptop itself, LOL.

  • Start with the 2015 design (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:47AM (#58241660)

    Pretend everything since 2016 never happened.
    The 2015 and prior design has everything going for it that people have been complaining about since the 2016 re-work.
    - Plenty of ports
    - MagSafe charging
    - A reliable keyboard

    Take the same 2015 design
    - Update the ports, maybe even add a few
    - Keep MagSafe
    - Don't fuck with the keyboard, it was fine,did not have to be re-imagined and made worse
    - Update the chassis for a thinner bezel design
    - And of course update the guts
    - Oh, and ditch that dumbass touchbar /rant over

    But seriously Apple do that and I'll buy a Mac again.

    • Seriously, this is so right.

      If Apple wants to dick with the 2015 ports, ok, switch Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C. Leave the rest alone for God's sake.

      My 2017 13" MacBook pro is the first Mac I've bought which I found quite disappointing (and I've been a Mac owner since 1994).

      I'm much happier with my $400 Chromebook, which, while it has the USB-C-only problem too, has a real ESCAPE key, a micro-SD slot, a touchscreen (which I don't really use, but still...), screen folds flat 180Â and 360Â, great backlit

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fuzzyf ( 1129635 )
      This!

      I got the 15" 2015 model fully specced and it's nice, but I will not be bying a new Macbook Pro as they are now.
      No magsafe, no USB A and that useless touchbar.. ffs.
      And the price? What are they thinking? Come on


      The thing is. I don't really care if they "innovate" or not. I just want a good laptop. Good battery, good screen, good keyboard, good performance, good build quality. Throw in a SD card reader and USB A ports so I don't have to go and find that stupid dongle every time I need to connect

  • MBP Never Again... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cormandy ( 513901 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @02:48AM (#58241664)
    I bought a late 2016 MBP - the one post-magsafe, all USB C and with the new butterfly keyboard. Love quickly turned to loathing. Although it wasnâ(TM)t the first MacBook I bought (4 over the years for my immediate family) it was the first I bought for myself after years of Wintel laptops, all ThinkPads (both Lenovo and IBM). Iâ(TM)ve experienced keyboard issues, most notably double-spacing. Keyboard already replaced once. Wake on sleep problems. Failed speaker. My gripes are as follows: - no magsafe. This is an issue for non-obvious reasons: the USB C port simply does not hold onto the charger cable as well which can often easily slip out causing the laptop to fall back to battery - the cost of repairability. The top case is a fusion of the keyboard, battery, speakers and some other bits so if any one part fails you have to replace them all at once at rediculous cost. Easily $400 if you need to buy a new keyboard - 16GB ram. Granted this may change - non-expandability. Cannot change ram or internal storage. - as above, the keyboard. Too sensitive, low travel, goddamn noisy (try typing in a meeting and everyone will be looking at you), susceptible to dust, expensive to repair - switching between apps on OSX for some bloody reason always brings up the wrong document, and not the last one I was working on when I have multiple docs open. Cannot stress how much this pisses me off! - hundreds of $$$ spent on dongles to replace missing ports: ethernet, HDMI, SVGA and USB - VMWare Fusion so I can use Visio and MS Project to get my job done Although Iâ(TM)m no fan of Windows my next laptop will again be a Wintel. I will miss the iMessage OSX app but this is about it. Lenovo (X1E) and Dell (XPS 15) have shown that you can do powerful, thin and light with expandibility and with ports people actually use.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by berj ( 754323 )

      Hundreds of dollars on dongles? Come on.

      • Sigh... Apple USB C vga multiport adapter: $69 USD Apple USB C ditial av multiport adapter: $69 USD Add on an ethernet adapter: $35 USD Usb c to usb 2 adapter... Anyways clearly hundreds of $$$. Thatâ(TM)s what I paid.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by berj ( 754323 )

          Too late for you now.. but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

          There are piles and piles of multi port adapters that have USB-A, HDMI, and sometimes even ethernet.. all for much less than $100. If VGA is absolutely a must then you can just get an additional VGA adapter (note that this would be required regardless of which Macbook from the last decade you bought. I'm not even sure that *any* Macbook had a VGA connection...). If you needed to spend much more than $100 I'd be shocked.

          • but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

            Well if your solution is to not buy Apple products then you can have just avoided the situation all together by not buying the original damn Apple product that requires you to bolt on a lot of non-Apple products to get basic functionality. .

  • Physical function keys. (Score:3)

    by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @03:42AM (#58241746)
    I don't care about the touch bar. I need my function keys to work. Period.

  • "you have to chose between this cool new feature or this broken thing fixed" is a false dichotomy. there is no reason apple wouldn't be able to accomplish things that are not mutually competing for power consumption, physical space, or cost. there is a point in making priority lists but fixing what shouldn't be broken in the first place don't belong there.

  • I like the choice to go with USB-C/Thunderbolt. I understand why Apple did this.

    People complained about the loss of the SDXC slot but I think I used it just once or twice in the years I had my old laptop. The lack of HDMI port and replacing it with video on USB-C doesn't bother me much either, especially since HDMI doesn't (or at least didn't at the time) support the higher resolutions that Thunderbolt or DisplayPort gives. Cables from USB-C to HDMI/DisplayPort/whatever don't seem to cost all that much m

    • How much do I need to spend on a monitor to get one with "video over USB-C". I didn't see any when I was shopping, but granted I was sorting by price and getting the cheapest 24 inch I could find.

    • Apple finally needs to get vaccinated...
      Hopefully the disease over at USB 3,4 ...Intel with Thunderbolt... doesn't spread any further. Obviously, Apple got it when they were in bed with Intel on Thunderbolt 3.

      MagSafe plugs didn't last... the cables used a stupid type of plastic too. but making $$ in replacements wasn't enough to counter the brain damaging USB virus.

      YES MagSafe maxed at 85 Watts. Apple CRIPPLED all their laptops so you run your battery down doing serious work. Their LIE is heat related but

  • I would never buy a Mac for myself for a number of reasons, but my work-issued laptop is an MBP. I'm on my second or third. The keyboard has _always_ sucked - even the 2012/3 models we started with. I noticed my colleagues were slowing their typing down because the keyboard was shit even compared to the cheap and cheerful Dell keyboards we had prior. A triumph of form over function.

    There is a reason I use an external keyboard as much as possible. A Happy Hacking Keyboard to be honest, but even Microsoft's T

  • This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever

    If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

    • If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

      At home, my laptop is docked and I use a real mechanical keyboard. It's wider, thicker and heavier than the laptop itself. So obviously I'm not going to lug the keyboard around when I'm on the road. If I was going to do that, I wouldn't need a laptop to begin with. A laptop needs to be usable without any external dongles, that's kind of the point of having one.

  • Alternative brands (Score:5, Insightful)

    by enriquevagu ( 1026480 ) on Saturday March 09, 2019 @04:55AM (#58241856)

    When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

    • When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

      When you make a judgement based on a number rather than a severity or impact of sets of problems maybe it's time to not be in charge of any product selection.

  • Dell's I9 laptop is fast, has an amazing video card, great monitor, great keyboard and plenty of ports on it. I can get it pre-loaded with Linux, 64 GB of RAM and a 2 TB SSD. I'm trying to think of a downside, can't really. I've never been a huge fan of Dell but if you look at their selection of machines past the Dell "My First Laptop" your employer issued you, some of their hardware is actually pretty good. Maybe having an Apple Logo on a laptop somehow makes it impossible to deliver a package like that, b
  • I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 13" that I like, however it doesn't compare with my previous 2010 MBP13. And in term of keyboard the 2015 is very disappointing while the best one IMHO was the 2008 MacBook Black. So my wish list would be :
    • - 2008 MB Black keyboard with physical function keys
    • - Mag safe (that was innovation)
    • - Replaceable battery
    • - Replaceable SSD
    • - Upgradable RAM up to 128Go
    • - Mini Display port
    • - Mate display as an option
    • - 3 to 4 USB-A ports on the same side
    • - IR Remote (that was neat)
    • - Aluminiu
  • How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

    • How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

      Courage? Thinking differently?

  • I want the magsafe back. That alone saved me a few thousand new laptops. A USB port might be nice, and not only a C port...dongles ? Really ? I bought an Air again just because of that.

  • DO change:
    - go back one keyboard generation
    - bring back the f'in 17" model, and a 20" model for huge people like me (and gamers / designers)
    - create a decent desktop docking system, with MODULAR port expansions so people can pick what they need (SD card, old Firewire, MIDI, whatever). You're the geniuses, rethink the workplace.
    - a few normal USB ports. I know USB-C is the way to go, but I share the dislike of extra dongles when I'm traveling. Seriously? Find some other way to force the ecosystem.
    - Why not j

    • EXACTLY!
      You have to sell it as a new revolutionary DONGLE. Apple is obsessed with the stupid things. The "super dongle" which snaps on the side and puts back all the ports the idiots removed.

      Parent is right... but:
      2012 is the last decent MacBook Pro. I've given up on them getting back any retired competent employees. I am fine with Thunderbolt 1 eGPU just wish it wasn't a mess to get it working.

      + REPLACABLE SSD (they can have defects, always getting larger)
      + REPLACABLE RAM (2012 last one)
      + 2nd SSD slot. M

  • A lot of bellyaching about keyboards here.

    I am typing this on a Apple bluetooth keyboard paired to my MacPro-2015. I would say 90% of my heavy-typing work is done at my desk where the keyboard is. The laptop itself is closed and driving an external display which also provides me a wired mouse.

    The only time when I even open the laptop is when I take it somewhere. And then I use the keyboard that still looks new after four years. All laptops that are lightweight have keyboard problems eventually d

  • As usual I see the back-and-forth between Windows/Linux/MacOS. Everything said has been said before many many times.

    Including this.

    I have MacOS but I also have Windows in VM. Some applications just don't have a MacOS version like Solidworks, The Citrix Xen VM manager and a number of tools like that and accounting packages.

    I have lots of Linux systems around so I don't need a Linux VM but if I did I could have one in a few minutes.

    In this day and age crusading for one favored OS over another is jus

  • Trackpad, keyboard, low reflection display, ports, magsafe. MacBooks used to be top or have good options for these areas.

  • I've been using MacBook Pros for a decade now. I got one of the new ones a few weeks ago. My experience...

    • I actually like the feel of the new keyboard. The key travel is a slight bit too shallow for my taste, but it feels crisp. I haven't had it long enough to know if it's reliable over time.
    • The arrow keys blow. The previous machines had an inverted-T pattern with all the keys half-height. You could easily find them by feel. The new one has the left/right keys full height, and the up/down keys hal

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