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DHS Seized Aftermarket Apple Laptop Batteries From Independent Repair Expert (vice.com) 242

Louis Rossmann says US Customs and Border Patrol seized $1,000 worth of laptop batteries, claiming they were counterfeit. From a report: Earlier this year, Louis Rossmann, the highest-profile iPhone and Mac repair professional in the United States, told Motherboard that determining "the difference between counterfeiting and refurbishing is going to be the next big battle" between the independent repair profession and Apple. At the time, his friend and fellow independent repair pro, Jessa Jones, had just had a shipment of iPhone screens seized by Customs and Border Patrol. Rossmann was right: His repair parts were also just seized by the US government.

Last month, US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) seized a package containing 20 Apple laptop batteries en route to Rossman's store in New York City. The laptop batteries were en route from China to Rossmann Repair Group -- a NYC based repair store that specializes in Apple products. "Apple and customs seized batteries to a computer that, at [the Apple Store], they no longer service because they claim it's vintage," Rossmann, the owner and operator of Rossmann Repair Group, said in a YouTube video. "They will not allow me to replace batteries, because when I import batteries that are original they'll tell me the they're counterfeit and have them stolen from by [CBP]." CBP seized the batteries on September 6, then notified Rossmann via a letter dated October 5. Rossmann produced the letter in its entirety in his video.

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DHS Seized Aftermarket Apple Laptop Batteries From Independent Repair Expert

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  • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @03:34PM (#57505694)

    To prevent this, you could just have the protection lasted as long as the product was being sold/supported by the company.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @03:45PM (#57505798)

      Easier, don't buy Apple (or other manufacturers) that pull this kind of stuff with products they sell to consumers, by pushing mandatory obsolescence.

      • asier, don't buy Apple (or other manufacturers) that pull this kind of stuff

        You're right. I'll avoid computer companies that do this.

        Of course, that means I guess I'm sourcing the batteries, motherboard, screen, etc. all separately.

    • by Sarten-X ( 1102295 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:15PM (#57505990) Homepage

      Or you could stop buying illegal products... but that doesn't fit the "Evil Big Corporation" narrative.

      An important detail about Apple batteries is that they have the Apple logo on them, and that's precisely why they were seized, as explained in the letter in TFA. They may have come from the same manufacturer as actual Apple batteries, or even been part of a batch made under an Apple contract with Apple designs, but they still have the Apple logo on them. Since Rossmann isn't buying the batteries (even indirectly) from Apple, nor is he himself allowed to use the Apple logo, it's indeed illegal to use the Apple logo on them. That's precisely the purpose of a trademark: to identify that a product came from a particular vendor.

      Now, the Chinese manufacturer could have relabeled the batteries with their own logo, and said they're "compatible with Apple" (or similar wording), and everything would have been legal, and Apple would still be equally unhappy. Since they didn't actually do that, it's an illegal use of the mark.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        considering Louis didn't show the batteries, since he doesn't have them, no photograph of the batteries was included, and no other image of a replacement battery, not an apple original battery, was shown.
        It's only assuming that the batteries were seized because of this said logo/trademark infringment.

        Though It is probably the most likely reason for the batteries being seized,

        the timing is a bit awkward for the very fact that there was a recent CBC documentary shown on tv, which was made some time ago.

        anyway

      • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:31PM (#57506090)

        You're assuming that the batteries are counterfits. If they were counterfeited in China, why bother adding the logo? Why doesn't the "used and recovered" battery story hold water? Or, given the e-Recyclling that used to take place, harvesting the cases from discarded laptops and replacing the cells.

        • They were not counterfit, they were probably from other Apple laptops. Evidently, Apple will not sell any third party repairmen the replacement parts. Perhaps they would rather sell you a new laptop and trash the old one adding to our e-waste. You can go to Lous youtube channel where he talks about it.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward

            It would seem Apple won't sell you, the owner of the old "vintage" laptop, the battery either. If Apple had their way, there'd be NO source for replacement batteries for "vintage" machines, leaving only choice to buy a new one.

          • To clarify, Apple won't sell anyone the replacement parts, and that's fine. That's their right (through a rather roundabout path leading back to free speech).

            However, they can't stop other companies from making similar parts (even using materials salvaged from other Apple products) and selling those parts as "compatible"... unless the part manufacturer is stupid enough to leave the Apple logo front-and-center on the parts, so it looks like Apple made them. Then Apple can claim misuse of their trademark, whi

        • by irving47 ( 73147 )

          If you read the comments and information on his video the batteries actually had the apple logo on them because they were refurb'd or recovered from otherwise dead macbooks. The sellers USUALLY BLACK OUT the Apple logo so they won't be flagged as counterfeited logos/products. This shipment, they forgot.

        • > If they were counterfeited in China, why bother adding the logo

          To sell them to home repair laptop owners, to third-party repair vendors, or even on Ebay to uncautious people who believe the vendor and the trademark.It can even be common to replace legitimate orders with illegitimate, counterfeit components and charge full price. I've never encountered this with laptops, but I've encountered it with video cards and RAID controllers. An intern who worked with me sought to keep a purchase order under the

        • If they were counterfeited in China, why bother adding the logo?

          You do understand the point of "counterfeiting" right?

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Counterfeit implies that it is supposed to pass as the original, which would mean it would need the logo on it... But as you say, it's not clear if that is what these are.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:45PM (#57506186)

        Exactly. Buying second hand goods should be illegal. It is the same as stealing from the benevolent companies that make it possible to buy anything in the first place. You shouldn't be able to fix your own car, change your own oil, or pump your own gas from a third party vendor. You should do everything at the dealership, using the trained, honest and fairly priced personnel available there. Or go to jail.

      • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:47PM (#57506202)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • by Uberbah ( 647458 )

          Do you have ANY idea how stupid you sound right now?

          Do you?

          Because your argument is about as fucking pants on head retarded as saying if I change tires on my Ford its now a fake as it still has the Ford logo on the grill!

          Let's fix your analogy by making the Ford a Shelby GT-500 you bought used. It still looks like a Mustang, handles like a Mustang and may have a perfectly nice refurbished engine - but not the 500 hp cast iron block from Shelby, despite having all the Cobra decals. Which was one of the ma

          • by Xenx ( 2211586 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:00PM (#57506886)
            No, their analogy is much closer to accurate than yours. Apple is a brand, Ford is the car brand. The Shelby would be a very particular car within the brand. Your analogy would only hold if they're trying to sell refurbished Apple batteries that don't actually meet the original specs.
            • So if my blue oval was sun faded, I can only get a new one from Ford?

              There seems to be an awful lot of them on eBay and Amazon.

              • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
                Aside from referencing Ford, I don't see how that relates to my comment. However, in answer... Any company that licensed the Ford logo for that purpose would be able to legally sell a replacement. If they recovered it from a wrecked car or other licensed source, I assume it could be sold. Aside from that, it would depend on exactly how Ford handles their trademark.
        • Because your argument is about as fucking pants on head retarded as saying if I change tires on my Ford its now a fake as it still has the Ford logo on the grill!

          Oh, I do love a good car analogy. However, that's not a good car analogy. Let's improve it, and make it relevant to the case in point.

          Let's say, hypothetically, you're selling tires to a used-car dealership. Naturally, they'll need to occasionally replace tires on a car before they can sell it. Now, you're trying to sell the dealership a set of Ford tires, to put on their Ford cars. You know they're Ford tires, because they say "Ford" right there in big letters on the sidewall, and you bought them from a ve

        • by TRRosen ( 720617 )

          Problem is they were marked as OEM Apple batteries. if there not that illegal. If you bought a new ford alternator and later found out it was a refurbished used unit you would be pissed because you would have been defrauded.

      • by iive ( 721743 )

        They may have come from the same manufacturer as actual Apple batteries, or even been part of a batch made under an Apple contract with Apple designs, but they still have the Apple logo on them. Since Rossmann isn't buying the batteries (even indirectly) from Apple, nor is he himself allowed to use the Apple logo, it's indeed illegal to use the Apple logo on them.

        Your argument sums up to that only Apple could sell goods with Apple logo.

        Do you understand how far this reasoning could be applied to? For exampl

        • by Uberbah ( 647458 )

          Do you understand how far this reasoning could be applied to? For example, you will not be allowed to sell your old iPhone, or iMac to somebody else, because it has Apple logo and you are not Apple and you are not allowed to use the Apple logo.

          There isn't a line that connects those dots. Used equipment from an OEM is not at all the same thing as new generic parts with a trademarked logo slapped on them.

          • To be fair, there is a legal line connecting those dots, and there is a legal reason it doesn't matter.

            The key is that the resale of like-new products is fine because it's not going to cause any brand confusion. The old iPhone you're selling is still an iPhone, and (assuming everyone plays by the rules) still has Apple's hardware inside the case. Legally, you're just selling an intact product (as you're entitled to under the first-sale doctrine), and you're not claiming to have changed its value in any way.

            • by iive ( 721743 )

              To be fair, there is a legal line connecting those dots, and there is a legal reason it doesn't matter.

              The key is that the resale of like-new products is fine because it's not going to cause any brand confusion. The old iPhone you're selling is still an iPhone, and (assuming everyone plays by the rules) still has Apple's hardware inside the case. Legally, you're just selling an intact product (as you're entitled to under the first-sale doctrine), and you're not claiming to have changed its value in any way.

              However, once you do something that changes the product's value, you have to be absolutely clear what that change was. If you replaced the battery or otherwise refurbished the product, you're supposed to declare that, so customers know exactly what they're buying. You could upgrade or overclock some components, and call it "modified", and even charge more for it. That's all fine, as long as you're making effort to say "this isn't exactly what that label might make you think".

              You see, you are claiming first sale doctrine, but then you are completely undermining it. Once I buy something it is completely mine. Every part of it is mine. I can do whatever I want with it. Including reselling it.
              You are talking about changing value and declaring it. What is the legal authority I should declare these things to? What is the law that mandates I do that? What even "value" means in this context!!

              If you as consumer accept such erosion of the first sale doctrine, soon there will be no first

      • right to repair laws need to fix this!

      • You're not a lawyer, and your glib description of "illegal products" is nonsense. Even the legal expert cited in the original article wrote:
        > “This strikes me as an abuse of trademark law by Apple,” he added, “one clearly designed to maintain its stranglehold over the repair market and, ultimately, to force customers to buy new hardware.”

        So now we have a real legal expert who says that Apple marked products sold by Apple manufacturers to a third party are not an abuse of trademar

        • You're not a lawyer, and your glib description of "illegal products" is nonsense. Even the legal expert cited in the original article wrote:

          That's cute, but you don't actually know anything about my credentials, and "legal experts" are not necessarily lawyers, either. The one quoted is a professor, who doesn't seem to have been a practicing lawyer for 10 years.

          Still, let's actually read the rest of his quote, written about a different (but similar) case:

          “Assuming that: (1) the cable bearing the Apple mark is a genuine Apple product, (2) the cable used on these screens is the same as the one Apple uses in the U.S., and (3) the importer/seller clearly communicates that the screens are a non-Apple aftermarket product, then Apple’s case for treating these as ‘counterfeit’ goods is very weak,” Perzanowski said in an email. “Refurbished or repaired products are generally permissible under trademark law’s first sale doctrine, so long as they are clearly labeled as such.”

          (emphasis mine)

          The key detail is that the parts have to be labeled accurately. In the case of batteries, if the cells are replaced or anything is done that makes them not the original Apple par

          • The key detail is that the parts have to be labeled accurately. In the case of batteries, if the cells are replaced or anything is done that makes them not the original Apple part, they can't carry the Apple logo, making these an illegally-marked part.

            This is wrong. The simple presence of an Apple logo doesn't make them "illegally marked". If I put a new aftermarket engine in my Ford, I can still sell it without removing the "Ford" badges on the car. If I put new laces in my shoes, I can still sell them without removing the Nike swoosh from the side. As long as it's made clear to the purchaser that the battery is refurbished then it doesn't matter if the Apple logo is on it as the seller isn't representing it as an Apple product. In fact, it sounds

          • Apple doesnâ(TM)t make the original cells. Replacing them doesnâ(TM)t make an original product any less original.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        Since Rossmann isn't buying the batteries (even indirectly) from Apple, nor is he himself allowed to use the Apple logo, it's indeed illegal to use the Apple logo on them.

        This isn't true.... If the batteries were made by Apple and being re-sold, then Apple REQUIRED their logo be on it when Apple had it manufactured, and the markings
        remain when other people are re-selling Apple's product with or without Apple's blessing -
        If Apple originally sold the unit, then it's Trademark Fair Use for people recove

  • Abuse of the law (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @03:36PM (#57505712)

    Companies like Apple use "intellectual property" laws to circumvent prohibitions on tying. [wikipedia.org]
    It's illegal to require me to buy my battery from Apple just because I bought my computer from them.
    And what's happening here is even worse: trying to make it illegal for anyone to sell batteries for computers Apple wants their customers to replace.

    • Re: Abuse of the law (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @03:42PM (#57505766)

      And Customs overreaching their authority.
      These are legitimate replacement batteries. Not knockoffs. Taxes paid. Not Customs job. Not DHS job.

      • It all depends on if they were new or used. If they were used, they're probably legit. If they were actually new, then it explains why Mr Rossman uses sarcastic language instead of direct language. He complains that DHS doesn't consider that maybe the batteries were removed from used devices, but that's not the same as saying "the batteries were in fact removed from used devices."

        I can't say I'm liking or trusting either side on this one. Two assholes having a fart competition.

        • by Calydor ( 739835 )

          At the point where he is repairing computers that Apple WILL NOT repair themselves I don't care if the batteries are legit or counterfeit. He is not costing Apple anything.

          • by iive ( 721743 )

            At the point where he is repairing computers that Apple WILL NOT repair themselves I don't care if the batteries are legit or counterfeit. He is not costing Apple anything.

            Every repair of old Apple product is a missed sale of new Apple product.

            It's the Broken Window fallacy.

          • Who cares if you care, though? How does that impact the situation, or the analysis?

            If the story was, "DHS encourages people to avoid local swap meet" then it would matter. But the story is about something else.

      • Sorry, but you donâ(TM)t get to use the Apple logo when you donâ(TM)t actually own the trademark

  • Lawyer up. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 ) on Friday October 19, 2018 @03:48PM (#57505814) Homepage Journal

    The CBP and Apple are wrong.

    They are not counterfeit. They are what they say they are.

    LR needs to lawyer up and sue.

    Wasn't there a recent case in Europe with exactly the same situation?

  • You can't repair them
    Same with Microsoft.
    Same with Amazon
    Same with all phone manufactures
    Same with consumer laptops. (You can generally repair desktops and business laptops.)
  • Apple Cars (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:01PM (#57505922)

    Apple should design cars, think of it.

    -after a set number of fuel-ups, the performance decreases to save fuel economy
    -after a set number of fuel-ups, the car can no longer function, because the gas tank is non-replaceable
    -if the tires wear down, you must purchase a new car
    -if the windshield wipers need replacement, just replace the whole windshield assembly
    -refilling the wiper fluid will cost $250
    -the floor mats are non replaceable
    -if you blow a headlamp, purchase a new car
    -if the remote keyfob battery dies, purchase a new car

  • Seems incredulous (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DaphneDiane ( 72889 ) <tg6xin001@sneakemail.com> on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:14PM (#57505978)

    There are aftermarket batteries for vintage models that do not copy apples logo, such as the Rayovac [batteriesplus.com] ones for the original MacBook. The statement about batteries from demo machines running in stories is incredulous. Seriously suggesting that customers want repairs with batteries that have been trickle charged while continuously running, as would be the case for batteries from demo units, just fails Occam's razor. Story sounds like someone that is complaining after they got caught or at least should have done more research into their supplier.

  • The rule for importing “branded” items is pretty clear.
    If you bring something that you claim is by a brand you better have a license with that brand. Else CBP will just assume it’s counterfeit. You could claim it as a replacement part for a device but the moment you say that part is original, you’re in trouble. You could go into a Gucci store in Italy, buy 10 bags and ship it to yourself, CBP will stop that shipment and claim it’s counterfeit even if you show the original rece

    • You could go into a Gucci store in Italy, buy 10 bags and ship it to yourself, CBP will stop that shipment and claim itâ(TM)s counterfeit even if you show the original receipt.

      I call BS on this one.

      it would seem that it MATTERS if you mail to yourself for personal use or to yourself as a business, with intent for resale.

      personal use is what seems to be the thing that breaks your assertion. can you cite that even personal use would mean the good you mailed to yourself are considered counterfeit?

      similar

      • by BLToday ( 1777712 ) on Saturday October 20, 2018 @01:24AM (#57507920)

        You could go into a Gucci store in Italy, buy 10 bags and ship it to yourself, CBP will stop that shipment and claim itâ(TM)s counterfeit even if you show the original receipt.

        I call BS on this one.

        it would seem that it MATTERS if you mail to yourself for personal use or to yourself as a business, with intent for resale.

        personal use is what seems to be the thing that breaks your assertion. can you cite that even personal use would mean the good you mailed to yourself are considered counterfeit?

        similarly, your link talked about greymarket and many of us regularly buy (or bought) cameras that were greymarket and they most certainly did make it to BH, adorama, etc - and are not stopped at the border.

        so, I call BS on this. personal use is OK and greymarket is NOT automatically illegal. Nikon would like to think so (and that's why I stopped supporting nikon) but its not ILLEGAL to import or sell greymarket goods, as long as its marked as such (ie, no US warranty or local post-sales support from the US support org)

        You're welcome to try mailing 10 Gucci bags to yourself for personal use if you don't believe me. Hell, you don't even have to mail it to yourself. Just try to land in LAX with more than 5 new Italian bags. Even if you declared it and paid the duty on it, they're going to give you a hard time. I've had a friend had a box of returned merchandise get seized at LAX. His friend had a thrift store in some Asian country, bought items from here, but couldn't sell it and had him bring it back to be returned to the manufacturers here. Fully documentation on the shipment, CBP claimed that he intended to sell counterfeit merchandise and confiscated the items.

        One of my ex-gf does graymarket import/export for a living. Generally depending on the port of entry and port of departure, you have 1% to 10% chance of inspection. If you're unlucky and your shipment gets inspected, you better have a license from the trademark holder for that shipment. What probably happened is Apple complained to CBP and Rossman's shipment was flagged for inspection. If it has an Apple trademarking on it and he didn't have a license from Apple to import, then his shipment is going to get seized.

  • Apple sucks (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 19, 2018 @04:15PM (#57505992)

    Rossmann group recovered data from an iPhone my wife dropped in the water. Of course Apple was unwilling to help me, but Louis was! It's insanity to think that a product you purchase can be held hostage by a company for the entire time you "own" it. I'm done with Apple. They suck, a cancer in the tech arena. Tech is beginning to suck everywhere because of this type of bull$h1t. It's time for me to purchase a new car and I am actually considering purchasing a 1960's to 70's vintage restored vehicle to avoid all the nasty tech involved .. and I'm a IT professional!

  • could we soon see all third party ink cartridges be declared counterfeit if apple is able to get away with this.

  • Stop blaming Apple. Third party replacement batteries are readily available from reputable sellers. This guy decided to save a few bucks and screw his customers by buying iffy products from China. They were fakes. Apple doesn't give a damn about $1000 worth of old batteries it doesn't sell anyways.

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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