Apple Will Judge Call, Email Activity To Assign Users a 'Trust Score' (theinquirer.net) 106
Apple recently updated its iTunes privacy policy page, making mention of a "trust score" it gives iPhone users on how they make calls or send emails. The INQUIRER reports: "To help identify and prevent fraud, information about how you use your device, including the approximate number of phone calls or emails you send and receive, will be used to compute a device trust score when you attempt a purchase," Apple explained. "The submissions are designed so Apple cannot learn the real values on your device. The scores are stored for a fixed time on our servers."
In practical terms, the Cupertino crew will only look at Apple account usage patterns and hoover up metadata rather than more personal, and potentially damning information. [T]he data collection and trust score assigning should help Apple better spot and dodgy activity going on in Apple accounts that aren't in keeping with those of the legitimate users. [I]t's not entirely clear how Apple will use the metadata to actually spot fraud, as it hasn't explained its workings.
In practical terms, the Cupertino crew will only look at Apple account usage patterns and hoover up metadata rather than more personal, and potentially damning information. [T]he data collection and trust score assigning should help Apple better spot and dodgy activity going on in Apple accounts that aren't in keeping with those of the legitimate users. [I]t's not entirely clear how Apple will use the metadata to actually spot fraud, as it hasn't explained its workings.
Re: Sometimes security by obscurity makes sense. (Score:2)
My recent calls log indicates I have only received 8 phone calls since 1 July.
I hope that does not count against me.
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The KGB/FSB isn't what you need to be afraid of. China's social credit scoring system, and the fact that Apple's system as well as Facebooks can be subverted to feed into this. It is only a matter of time before the US and Europe hop onboard the social credit system as well. Hell, I read slashdot posts about people BEGGING for this to be implemented in the US, as a way to control bad behavior.
Re:Duh (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing is, legitimate people do suddenly change their daily routine, for instance by going on holiday...
These anti fraud systems often result in false positives which are extremely painful for the legitimate users. For instance, i just had one of my cards blocked while on holiday, and the only way to unblock it is to call the bank during working hours. This might sound reasonable until you consider...
On holiday, making a phonecall back to your home country is often difficult and expensive.. Hotels usually charge a premium for phonecalls especially international ones, mobile roaming is usually extremely expensive, cheap local sims often block international calls by default and the instructions to enable them are in the local language which you might not understand, international calls are generally very expensive unless you have a specific calling plan - which you wont have access to. You may well be paying multiple dollars per minute to make a call.
The bank is likely to keep you on hold for a long time, further multiplying the cost.
Some banks require you to call from your registered callerid, which forces you to use mobile roaming at whatever extortionate rate the operator charges.
They need to use messaging services instead of insisting on phonecalls, not only would it be much cheaper when travelling (virtually all hotels now offer free wifi), but its also more convenient and cheaper - instead of sitting on hold waiting for an operator your message goes into a queue, you can get on with something else while you wait for a response and won't be spending money while your waiting.
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Just log into your bank's online account management system (there is usually an app for doing this) and leave them a message. That's the standard way of handling things when you travel.
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They don't offer a facility to send a message through it... some banks do, this one doesnt...
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Sounds like good reasons to change banks.
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I just go to my credit union's web portal, go to the Travel section, click the start and end days that I'm traveling, check off the states/countries, and I'm good to go. Never had an issue traveling anywhere.
Does your bank not offer a service like that, or do you not know about it?
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> These anti fraud systems often result in false positives which are extremely painful for the legitimate users.
And sometimes they are just useless anyway. I was on a business trip to Europe for 2 weeks. I got called on my cellphone by one of my credit card companies whose card I had been using on the trip in Switzerland... literally while I was using that card to gas up the rental car on the way to the airport to fly back home.
That's right, after **13 days** of activity on that card in Europe, an ocea
Social Credit (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, Apple should call it a "social credit system". Maybe brand it as "iTrust" or something like that! The score goes up the more iProducts you buy, unless they get old, then the score goes down.
Re:Social Credit (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Social Credit (Score:2)
I can probably kill my social credit with Apple instantly by just pulling that old iPod Touch 3 out of the drawer and turning it on. Proabably, though, the Safari on it is incapable of connecting to apple.com.
Re: Social Credit (Score:5, Informative)
Like that episode on Black Mirror where their scores affected the price of rent and credit worthiness. In the end people 5 starred everything including the kid pouring your coffee at starbucks. Do people not get the concept of grade inflation?
The Orville had a better exploration, where anyone could "like" or "dislike" a person or their actions and that created a social score that stuck with a person forever. Too many "dislikes" and a person couldn't even get served at a store or coffee shop and eventually dislikes could become high enough that you could be sentenced to having your personality wiped. If it got close to that stage people would literally have to go on an apology tour to try to get enough likes to counterbalance it. I don't think society will ever (hopefully) get that far, but it is a good warning for how "social scores" are a really bad idea.
Difference: (Score:5, Insightful)
Google: Knows who you call, analyzed converted text of entire conversation, scanned every email for content and stored that on servers.
Apple: Doesn't care who you called just that you called 10k different numbers, Siri reads email to look for context and helpful suggestions, but sends no data to Apple servers to do so. It would send Apple a note if again, you had emailed 10k people in the last hour....
Now do you really want people to get away with mass spam/robocalling on mobile devices?
Buy from Apple... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Well, clearly its for you. How could you not tell.
Re: Buy from Apple... (Score:2)
He's busy flipping around in the bottom of the boat. And wondering why he wasn't even considered worth throwing in the live well.
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Dude, they fucking do. 2 years after we bought iPads for the brats, they stopped getting updates because we hadn't paid or annual Apple tax. Oh, I know, that's my fault because i didn't buy the newest one, I bought a slightly older one. Funny how this crappy e lite can get new apps even thigh its much older and crappier and not Apple ish
Quit lying.
Unless it was a certain model of iPad, that did have an extremely-short (by Apple Standards; long for Android) Support window, Apple supports devices for at least as long as is technologically practical.
Just like communist China! (Score:3, Insightful)
Better look over your shoulder, and mind how you use your iPhone, because Your Score is being calculated. This is just a bit too much, and you know it will be gamed and spoofed. It's just another hit to your privacy. But no one seems to care anymore...
Re:Just like Black Mirror (Score:2, Informative)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: Just like communist China! (Score:2)
The East Is Red [youtube.com].
Re:Just like communist China! (Score:4, Informative)
What they will be looking at is pretty straight forward and most banks do something similar. So activity surges, purchases suddenly from a different location, possibly types of products purchased. Bad billing costs more, loses customers more, so trying to make sure the end user is not cheated and does not get fraudulent bills is important.
Re: Given Chinas Social Scores (Score:2)
Hey, Apple is required to do this kind of thing in China, why not make use of the tech elsewhere, too?
We wouldn't want Apple to fall behind and not have this kind of tech developed, tested, and ready for when it becomes mandatory.
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It's bad because they have access to very intimate information/data (political affiliations, personal habits, associations), any of which can be construed as offensive/contrary to 'being a good citizen' -- and because this idea of 'good' can change over time. Google can share any of that without the person knowing and can have real world effects (law enforcement considering any of it 'suspicious' for example).
Consider this: Originally in the west (up until the 1960's) almost everyone was at least loosely c
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I imagine there's a law that says that non-citizens/non-residents aren't supposed to have an account, no?
Just like their fascist masters in China (Score:1)
China is officially "communist", but they long ago learned what everybody else who tries communism learns: it does not work. China has kept the label "communist", but actually has gone fascist and is more purely that than any country since Mussolini and Hitler.
Consider:
1. They pretend to allow corporations, but in reality these corporations are tied to the ruling regime and may only exist as long as the regime approves them politically. Anybody who gets out of line politically will lose his position in the
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What could possibly go wrong? (Score:4, Insightful)
So now Apple are going to be able to directly affect peoples lives entirely based on some undisclosed criteria made up in secrret by a bunch of hardcore liberals. What could possibly go wrong?
http://fortune.com/2017/10/17/... [fortune.com]
Re:What could possibly go wrong? (Score:4, Informative)
Fuck Apple (Score:3)
Like a credit score (Score:2, Flamebait)
Credit scores have been around for a long time. They aren't perfect, but they do a reasonable job of predicting whether a borrower will default.
Why do we feel Apple's move is creepy, but not TransUnion?
Maybe we could one day set our email inboxes to accept emails only from a sender with a trust score over some threshold. That sounds good to me!
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Oh people definitely think TransUnion is creepy. But they came around long before the interwebs could let us all know that our privacy had been destroyed behind our back and by the time we did, it was already "business as usual."
Not that it matters. Nobody will stop using their credit cards or getting loads. And nobody will give up their iPhones. At least for a first approximation of "nobody."
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So how else would you solve the problem of knowing whether or not you can trust someone attempting to initiate a transaction with you, or whether a review is fake?
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If Apple is counting the phone calls and e-mails that I send/receive on MY device, none of which involve them (Apple) as a party to the conversation/transaction, and slurping that data up on THEIR servers, that is disturbing and creepy to me.
So-called "credit bureaus" collect information from commercial entities (that I don't own) that reflect those entities experience with me, and pool that information so that those commercial entities together have a collective idea of how I might do business with them i
Start the countdown (Score:4, Insightful)
How long do you think it'll be before some hackers prove this data can be de-anonymized?
They've adopted China's Social Credit System! (Score:2)
JOY!
Yet another reason to never give CrApple ANY money.
EVER.
Uhh (Score:3)
If you have a crisis life event, you may suddenly be making lots of phone calls and need to make emergency purchases. Thats when your phone and card will stop working?
Re:Uhh (Score:4, Insightful)
Thats when your phone and card will stop working?
More like, that is when you can not use your phone in place of a card. Nothing is stopping you from using your card directly. A slight loss of convenience is all that will result should this go wrong. And I see no indication that your phone would be disabled. Purchases using Apply Pay - yes, but who cares about that in a time of emergency.
we are not in china (Score:2)
sounds like something china is doing. they have a social score and if works a lot like credit scores and has the same effect on their lives. is this what apple is really aiming for start small with emails???
Apple Will Judge Call, Email Activity (Score:1)
How are they going to judge me since I don't have, want, or use an iPhone? Oh yeah: poor. Or even: deplorable!
China (Score:2)
So I'm persona non grata? (Score:2)
good initiative from Apple (Score:1)