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Operating Systems Security Software Windows Apple Hardware

Apple To Suspend iTunes Store Support For 'Obsolete' First-Gen Apple TV (arstechnica.com) 123

Posted by BeauHD from the collecting-dust dept.
The original Apple TV, first introduced in 2007, will no longer be able to connect to the iTunes Store due to new security changes to be implemented by Apple. The news comes from a support document, which also mentions that PCs running Windows XP or Windows Vista will lose access to the most recent version of iTunes. Ars Technica reports: According to the document, the "obsolete" original Apple TV won't be updated in the future to support access to the iTunes Store. After May 25, users will only be able to access iTunes on second-generation Apple TVs and newer streaming devices. The same security changes affecting the first-gen Apple TV will also affect Windows XP and Vista machines. Users on such devices can still run previous versions of iTunes, so they should still be able to play their music library without problems. However, affected users won't be able to make new iTunes purchases or re-download previous purchases. Only machines running Windows 7 or later after May 25 will have full access to iTunes, including the ability to make new purchases and re-download older purchases.
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Apple To Suspend iTunes Store Support For 'Obsolete' First-Gen Apple TV More

Apple To Suspend iTunes Store Support For 'Obsolete' First-Gen Apple TV

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  • Garden (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Monday February 26, 2018 @09:27PM (#56191743)

    The garden's walls have been moved. If you wish to remain in the garden, please pay another entrance fee.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      11 years on a device is longer than:

      Pioneer tv (tv guide, dlna)
      Hue hub first gen
      Most android devices
      Linksys wireless routers
      Oppo Blu-ray player
      Honeywell first gen connected thermostat
      Espon printer

      • Re:Garden (Score:5, Insightful)

        by omnichad ( 1198475 ) on Monday February 26, 2018 @10:32PM (#56192005) Homepage

        No one's disagreeing with you there. But this hardware is being sold like an "appliance" and it isn't failing as an appliance - it's being effectively remotely disabled.

        There are DVD players still going strong after 20 years of use. VCRs still kicking after 30. AM/FM Radios still going after 50+ years. There is still no question that the obsolescence was built into the Apple TV by virtue of how it is designed and what it's required to rely on. And in the end, you're still effectively renting the hardware - but it's being treated for most legal purposes like a purchase.

        • No one's disagreeing with you there. But this hardware is being sold like an "appliance" and it isn't failing as an appliance - it's being effectively remotely disabled.

          There are DVD players still going strong after 20 years of use. VCRs still kicking after 30. AM/FM Radios still going after 50+ years. There is still no question that the obsolescence was built into the Apple TV by virtue of how it is designed and what it's required to rely on. And in the end, you're still effectively renting the hardware - but it's being treated for most legal purposes like a purchase.

          And the thing is, if you went to fix any of those "beater" tech devices, you would likely be out of luck if you needed something like a display for that DVD Player or tuning stack for that AM/FM radio.

          The issue is "support", and how long is long enough. A friend of mine's Toshiba TV decided to have a special-purpose HDMI input IC die. Rest of the TV was fine; but no HDMI. The TV was only about 3 years old. No dice. All service parts, service info, etc. was deemed OBSOLETE. I had to get him an HDMI to Compon

          • Bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by thesupraman ( 179040 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:54AM (#56192553)

            Dont try and confuse this with repair.

            These devices are in no way failed, they are having their operational status revoked. By Apple. For their own advantage.

            BTW, Stop making examples up. I regularly source Toshiba parts older than 3 years - and usually no problems with parts older than 10 years.
            You would also have the options of going gray-market, or finding a second hard part.

            Want to try that here?
            How do you think Apple would react to a request to release the required encryption keys to allow 3rd party support of this device to continue?

            No, there is a damn good reason Apple is fighting tooth and nail to block right-to-repair, Loves the DMCA, etc.
            Once they have people on the hook, they expect them to keep paying, or suffer the consequences. It is device based Catholicism.

            And no, your examples of software cost do NOT apply. The only reason they need to do additional work is because they wish to add new features
            to OTHER, NEWER products - there is no direct costing being created by the existing devices - so it is in no way similar to the cost of keeping
            a physical inventory of parts.

            • Re:Bullshit. (Score:5, Informative)

              by TheFakeTimCook ( 4641057 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:10PM (#56195209)

              Dont try and confuse this with repair.

              These devices are in no way failed, they are having their operational status revoked. By Apple. For their own advantage.

              I'm not confusing it with anything. You brought up the example of beater tech gear still working. But still working implies that it needs no support. It's when the support is needed that it matters. That's how I got from there to here.

              So there.

              BTW, Stop making examples up. I regularly source Toshiba parts older than 3 years - and usually no problems with parts older than 10 years.
              You would also have the options of going gray-market, or finding a second hard part.

              It really wasn't made up. I don't know if I just lucked up one the ONE obsoleted part; but I couldn't find it anywhere. I must admit I didn't try eBay, Craigslist, or my local TV repair shop; but as far as the MANUFACTURER went, that part was no longer available.

              Want to try that here?
              How do you think Apple would react to a request to release the required encryption keys to allow 3rd party support of this device to continue?

              What encryption keys? The issue is that the iTunes-Store-end of the system is going to change, and Apple isn't going to accommodate the OS of the first gen Apple TV anymore, nor are they going to update the most recent version of iTunes that can run on XP or Vista to use this new Protocol.

              That does NOT mean that:

              1. The Apple TV will suddenly be bricked.

              2. That you won't be able to load Kodi On your first gen Apple TV and continue to use it that way.

              3. That you won't be able to use iTunes to access LOCAL content, including content already purchased from iTunes.

              4. That you won't be able to use your Apple TV to do anything that you could before with it, EXCEPT for purchasing/renting NEW content from the iTunes Store, nor (I assume) receive Apple Music content.

              And that's it! If you are currently using a first gen Apple TV to access content on a local computer, file server, NAS, etc., YOU WILL STILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT, FFS!!!

              No, there is a damn good reason Apple is fighting tooth and nail to block right-to-repair, Loves the DMCA, etc.
              Once they have people on the hook, they expect them to keep paying, or suffer the consequences. It is device based Catholicism.

              And no, your examples of software cost do NOT apply. The only reason they need to do additional work is because they wish to add new features
              to OTHER, NEWER products - there is no direct costing being created by the existing devices - so it is in no way similar to the cost of keeping
              a physical inventory of parts.

              You're just stupid.

              Just because YOU declare something a "non-cost", doesn't make it so. There is a REAL, accountable cost associated with continuing to support older devices and OSes, whether you think so or not.

              Everything isn't one big conspiracy to force you into upgrading. And you know why? Because every time a customer upgrades, there is at least a chance they will go somewhere else.

              And you want to know what customers are the MOST likely to "vote with their feet"? The ones who believe that they have been FORCED to reconsider their last purchase, due to even a FEELING of being "orphaned".

              • > You're just stupid.

                > Just because YOU declare something a "non-cost", doesn't make it so. There is a REAL, accountable cost associated with continuing to support older devices and OSes, whether you think so or not.

                So, do tell. What "costs" are Apple going to absorb to keep Apple TV g1s working if they simply stop patching them and let them otherwise continue operating? They still sell movies in 1080p from their store, right? They still have the g1 versions of all the apps like Netflix, etc, right

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Bongo ( 13261 )

            Time marches on, especially in the tech world.11 years is enough. It isn't a "durable good", like a washer or a refrigerator.

            Hah! When my expensive[1] Siemens fridge-freezer started breaking, the cost for the parts was ridiculous, and better to just buy a new one.

            And when I talked to appliance techs, they say, yeah, lifespan for these appliances is 7 years, so your Siemens cracking up at 9 is pretty good going.

            When I was a kid, a fridge was considered one of the most reliable appliances.

            Apple isn't being particularly bad here -- they are a poor example of the problem, which is that manufacturers and customers are stuck in this

            • Time marches on, especially in the tech world.11 years is enough. It isn't a "durable good", like a washer or a refrigerator.

              Hah! When my expensive[1] Siemens fridge-freezer started breaking, the cost for the parts was ridiculous, and better to just buy a new one.

              And when I talked to appliance techs, they say, yeah, lifespan for these appliances is 7 years, so your Siemens cracking up at 9 is pretty good going.

              When I was a kid, a fridge was considered one of the most reliable appliances.

              Apple isn't being particularly bad here -- they are a poor example of the problem, which is that manufacturers and customers are stuck in this cycle of making stuff which is not designed to last. My fridge was actually impressive in this design discipline, as it wasn't just the compressor which was going, the plastics were all starting to crack at the same time, with German timing and efficiency.

              [1] Expensive to me.

              A VERY poor example of the "not made to last" problem. Apple stuff is generally considered to be among the longest-lasting in the industry.

              One refrigerator anecdote here. I bought my Kenmore refrigerator, USED, 22 years ago. Other than a small fan in the freezer going bad (which I replaced myself), it continues to function flawlessly. Yeah, the bottom plastic tray is cracked; but That is only a minor annoyance.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by DogDude ( 805747 )
                Apple stuff is generally considered to be among the longest-lasting in the industry.

                What industry is that? I know they make entry-level consumer gadgets and some entry-level PC's, and in both of those industries, they provide some of the shortest support windows and the shortest "upgrade" cycles.
                • Museums. FakeTimCook must have skipped all those recalls and defective Japanese capacitor problems or else he'd be laughing at that statement.

                  • Museums.

                    FakeTimCook must have skipped all those recalls and defective Japanese capacitor problems or else he'd be laughing at that statement.

                    The defective capacitors affected a WIDE range of tech products, including MANY brands and models and types of computer equipment, as well as consumer and even pro audio and video gear, industrial control and measurement products, et cetera, ET CETERA.

                    I can't argue against a non-factoid like "all those recalls"'; so we'll just call that what it is: Hater bullshit.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          A first generation Apple TV is perfectly usable without the iTunes Store.

          • Right, just don't update it...

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Altus ( 1034 )

              it doesn't matter if you update it. it will still be running the old version of iTunes and it will still have all of your downloaded media on it. it will continue to be able to play it.

              The store, however, is an online feature and the new version of it is incompatible with the old version if iTunes. Since they will not be updating iTunes on these devices you wont be able to buy or download new material.

        • Re:Garden (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Swampash ( 1131503 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @12:35AM (#56192339)

          This hardware is being sold like an "appliance" and it isn't failing as an appliance - it's being effectively remotely disabled.

          The iTunes store will no longer be accessible from the Gen 1 AppleTV. Whether or not that is an inconvenience depends on how often you use your Gen 1 AppleTV to connect to the iTunes store.

          I've got a Gen 3 AppleTV and it has been in use nearly 24/7 since the day I bought it in 2013. I think I've used it to access the iTunes store 4 times. If I were to lose access to the iTunes store tonight zero fucks would be given. I'd keep using it for streaming from my server, for Netflix, for Youtube, for Podcasts, for net radio, and all the other things that I use it for daily that aren't accessing the iTunes store.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Well, except that in order to update *those* apps, you need to connect to...the iTunes store. If Netflix stops supporting older versions, you're hosed.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

              Well, except that in order to update *those* apps, you need to connect to...the iTunes store. If Netflix stops supporting older versions, you're hosed.

              Now we know you're just trolling.

              Because the first gen AppleTV does not have apps. In fact, one of the biggest drawbacks is Netflix is not supported at all. The original 720p second gen AppleTV was the first to feature Netflix before AppleTV got apps (2nd gen and onwards, and only when the 4th gen AppleTV came out a few years ago). First gen was the original

        • There are DVD players still going strong after 20 years of use. VCRs still kicking after 30. AM/FM Radios still going after 50+ years.

          And TVs that are still going strong after 40 years! Of course they won't actually pick up a signal because they changed the way TV channels work...

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by havana9 ( 101033 )
            I still have three CRT colour TV set. And the video quality of a Trinitron tube is excellent. You have only to use the SCART connector. Someone hooked a digital TV receiver to a 1964 Brionvega ALGOL [youtube.com] black and white TV set. Or if you're the RAI museum ot TV and radio you could put a little VHF modulator and generate an anolgue signal for the 1954 TV sets in exposition.

          • And TVs that are still going strong after 40 years!

            Are those TVs being actively supported by the manufacturer? No they are not.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Keruo ( 771880 )
          You can install Kodi on 1st gen AppleTV, effectively restoring the functionality as a media player appliance. With Crystal HD chip, the hardware can playback 1080p video.

        • No one's disagreeing with you there. But this hardware is being sold like an "appliance" and it isn't failing as an appliance - it's being effectively remotely disabled.

          There are DVD players still going strong after 20 years of use. VCRs still kicking after 30. AM/FM Radios still going after 50+ years. There is still no question that the obsolescence was built into the Apple TV by virtue of how it is designed and what it's required to rely on. And in the end, you're still effectively renting the hardware - but it's being treated for most legal purposes like a purchase.

          Products get obsoleted, it's a fact of life and I somehow doubt that your Google, Amazon, etc. streaming boxes will still be going strong and getting steady updates in 50+ years so any 1st gen Apple TV owners probably haven't been screwed any worse by Apple than if they had done business with most other streaming box manufacturers 11 years ago. Would I like to wring a few more than 11 years out of my 4th gen Apple TV? Sure, but I somehow suspect the games I like to play will no longer be playable on that th

        • I totally understand what you're saying but don't you think you're being a little overly dramatic here. Sure there may be an AM/FM Radio still going after 50+ years but I ain't listening to that shit and neither are the people who went out and bought a first generation AppleTV (I did). Hell I bet most of us thought the thing would probably fail and be discontinued anyway. People aren't being victimized here by some nefarious plan to force them to upgrade every 10-11 years. I'm on my third upgraded device in

          • Hell I bet most of us thought the thing would probably fail and be discontinued anyway.

            There are three kinds of Apple user. One has lots of money and buys new things from them all the time. These people have lots of money so we don't have to care about them, they will work their problems out themselves. Another is ignorant and has heard that Apple makes better and/or more reliable systems than Microsoft, which is provably false. Microsoft provides support for operating systems for something like twice as long as Apple. The third is a temporary Apple user, they are in the process of finding ou

        • There is still no question that the obsolescence was built into the Apple TV by virtue of how it is designed and what it's required to rely on.

          What? You're right there is no question, but you got the answer completely and totally wrong! How did you do that? The device is still working, and they are deliberately killing it! The obsolescence is NOT built in, they are creating it artificially.

          The hardware was sold as an appliance, it is still working, and they are deliberately breaking it. This is not obsolescence, this is vandalism. It's exactly the same as Sonos deciding to deliberately kill off the CR100 [sonos.com]. Again, sold as an appliance, still working

        • But this hardware is being sold like an "appliance" and it isn't failing as an appliance - it's being effectively remotely disabled.

          Lots of appliances have a lifespan of 10-15 years of effective use. My last hot water tank for example lasted 12 years before failing and that is typical for that and many other appliances. Not really so different in this case.

          There are DVD players still going strong after 20 years of use.

          The maker of that DVD player isn't being asked to support it after 20 years either. Apples to grapefruits my friend.

      • Re:Garden (Score:5, Insightful)

        by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Monday February 26, 2018 @10:39PM (#56192037)
        I've got an 11 year old router still plugging away just fine.

        A 15 year old HP printer.

        A 10 year old feature phone. And a 15 year old cordless phone for the landline.

        The keyboard I'm typing this on is also about 15 years old.

        My parents' television is a Sony Trinitron vintage 1999 or so.

        The dumb thermostat in my living room looks like it dates back to the 1960s. It's just a piece of coiled copper and a plastic cam-follower...nothing to break.

        Shit that lasts is good. Shit that breaks is bad. Shit that stops working because some some genius MBA fuck found a new way to make you pay for what you've already got...just plain nope. Not gonna buy it.
        • You do you, man, but the cordless phone would probably benefit from an upgrade. I've got five handsets linked to a single base station, and the base station has Bluetooth for two different phones. So you can leave your phone charging in the kitchen near the base, and yet you can make or answer calls on landline or either of the cellulars from any handset. I think it can do landline and one cell at the same time, but not absolutely sure.

          If you have elderly parents or grandparents who are worried about keep

          • There's a difference between upgrading to a new device because it has more features and being forced to buy a new device with fewer features because the manufacturer has decided to stop the old one working properly.

            In the former case you'll think "Man I'm glad I upgraded. This new device is so much better than the old one. In fact I'll probably not keep this one for as long. New is good, so I'll plan on an upgrade sooner this time". In the later case you'll think "This sucks. I was forced to buy a new devic

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mjwx ( 966435 )

          I've got an 11 year old router still plugging away just fine.

          I've still got a HTC Dream. Still works, can still make phone calls, use data... so on so forth. Sure its slow compared to modern phones and battery life is crap, but it still works. I keep it more for nostalgia though.

          People like us who buy things that last, take care of them so they do last and generally shop for value for money rather than "Ooooh! shiny" just have to accept that we're not Apple customers.

          Meanwhile, Apple customers need to realise they're Apple bitches and the iPimp has ordered you

    • A better analogy is that they’re no longer selling new plants to old gardens, given that this is simply access to the iTunes Store we’re talking about, not core functionality. Existing content that’s already been downloaded will continue to work just fine. New iTunes Store content purchased on other devices should still be viewable on the Apple TV via Home Sharing. The only thing people won’t be able to do is buy or rent new iTunes Store movies and shows (apps weren’t even supp

  • Raaage! Anger!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Monday February 26, 2018 @09:31PM (#56191761) Journal

    So they are no longer supporting something that is now 11 years old, and didn't really sell that well in comparison to the numbers they are shifting of the newer models which are far more capable and based on standard (at least, for Apple) hardware that is a close relation to the hundreds of millions of phones and tablets they've also sold. Should this really be a surprise? I'm surprised they were still supporting it.

    What other OEM set top box has been supported that long? Is anything even close?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      If you look at pictures of it you'll see the real reason they're killing it: it still does analog out, and they're killing the analog hole. This is all about ensuring the DRM of the Apple Walled Garden, nothing else.

      • You write this as if it's Apple that cares if you use the analog output to store movies. They don't own the content. If anyone's pushing for this, it's the movie producers who are demanding more concrete guarantees that someone can't rent a movie from Apple and immediately upload the torrent to the Pirate Bay, or keep a copy around for unlimited re-watches. Apple is going along with it because it lets them license more content at lower cost, which makes 99.99% of their consumer base happy.
      • Who cares about the analog hole? I can rip the DRM right out of their content on an old PC with an out of date copy of iTunes and do it regularly. I'm not fucking around with some stupid analog out on an 11 year old device I replaced 2 generations ago.
    • The issue is that it's something that you bought, which is yours, and Apple is turning it off. They're not ceasing support, they're prohibiting it from connecting to iTunes. Apple is deliberately all but bricking your device. That doesn't cause rage and anger?

      • Have you even used a gen 1 apple TV? Most everything it can do, it can do with or without the iTunes store.

    • Has it really been supported the past years? Just because something still works it doesn't mean it is still supported by the manufacturer.
      According to wikipedia:
      > On September 9, 2015, Apple officially classified the first generation Apple TV as being obsolete/vintage [..]

      So support was ended over 2 years ago. And now they are changing their walled garden even more making the device which was still usable for that period to a paperweight.

    • Re:Raaage! Anger!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:32AM (#56192831)

      What other OEM set top box has been supported that long? Is anything even close?

      Nothing else is even close. Every other device attached to my TV except for the Bluray player is far older than that. Please stop applying the retarded mobile trend to every damn appliance in the house.

  • iPod (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    What about my 160GB 6th Gen iPod.

    That's from 2008. If they shut that off they no hardware to replace it

  • not surprised (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    While I love to bitch about corporate shenanigans I cannot in good conscience keep bitching about people screwed by MS or Apple.

    You knew they were abusive when you entered the relationship, you were warned repeatedly, your friends family and everyone tried to tell you your with an abusive a-hole and you worshiped them and stayed with them against all logic and common sense.

    Reap what you sow

  • As is not news, or should not be, if you outsource your IT to another company, you are at their mercy. Storing your data (music, movies, business data, whatever) somewhere else makes you depend on whomever owns "somewhere else". And yes, putting your personal music in "the cloud" counts as outsourcing your IT. This isn't necessarily bad as the benefits may outweigh the costs, but be sure to go in with open eyes, especially if the initial "cost" appears to be zero and even more so if you don't have a written

  • Apple never used to force obsolescence.
    They do now, and it's constantly pissing me off.
    But it also gives me good incentive to switch things to linux and other open alternatives.

    This recent article claims the the Apple TV 1,2,3 and 4 all run Kodi:
    https://www.kodiinfopark.com/i... [kodiinfopark.com]

    In fact, it claims:
    "Apple TV 1 works extremely well with Kodi compared to other generation Apple TV because of the High storage capacity of Apple TV 1."

    Unfortunately, the upgrade is rather complex -- you need to install the Apple Xco

    • Apple never used to force obsolescence.

      How long ago? Before they dropped Rosetta? Before they dropped classic mode? Sure, it's getting worse, but they've definitely cut legacy ties sooner than the industry average.

    • This recent article claims the the Apple TV 1,2,3 and 4 all run Kodi:
      https://www.kodiinfopark.com/i... [kodiinfopark.com]

      Yeah, that article’s garbage. The ATV 3 section says “sorry, it doesn’t actually work but you can use AirPlay.”

      By that logic, my Apple TV 3 can play DVDs natively...

    • The Upgrade is not complex if you are in a hurry. I used ATV Flash Kodi Edition. ( https://firecore.com/atvflash-... [firecore.com] ) It cost me about $29 but its money well spent. The installation was fast and smooth. It replaces the ATV OS with OpenElec/Kodi which is a flavor of Linux built built to serve as a media platform ( https://openelec.tv/ [openelec.tv] ) . If you are the adventurous type, you can simply install OpenElec for Apple TV 1 which is free to download. I have an external USB hub that allows me to connect as

      • later versions of ATV have done away with the USB port, so you have to have NAS to access your media, which is a pain.

        Is the ATV1 usable as a NAS itself, or is that too much? Because otherwise, I can't imagine not having NAS anyway.

        • Yes, It has SMB built into it, as well as being a DNLA server for the network. I currently have 3 drives attached to mine and it behaves pretty well

  • Several years ago, I purchased an episode of a TV show on my XBox, and also purchased a movie on iTunes. Neither of them was transferable to any other devices that I own. Apple only works with Apple and Microsoft only works with Microsoft. I quickly made the decision to no longer purchase a) garden/walled hardware or software devices, and b) digital media that is completely tied down by DRM. My original reason was to avoid having movies/TV that can't be played on devices outside their respective "garden

    • Washing machines it's going to be hard. If they try, after-market "repair" services will pop up just like that. Won't even need to get into circumvention/DMCA issues. Just rip out the original electronics and put in a new set for 70% of the cost of paying the original manufacturer. Can't really do that with media delivery, but with durable goods it's cake.

      Already happens with things like old elevators and cranes and HVAC and such where the original manufacturer folds and a-guy-in-his-garage companies fill

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by swb ( 14022 )

        With washers, it may be another key part besides the software/electronics.

        My Kenmore front loader from 2004 had a warranty replacement on its control board and the technician said the only part I had to worry about was the drum bearing. He said if those quit under the initial warranty, they just replace the entire unit because the bearing itself is too expensive and there's no supply of them. Even with an extended warranty, they red tag the unit and only offer a pro-rated refund towards a new washer.

        On t

        • You're right, but if a mechanical part breaks, that's one thing. If the control board breaks it can be refurbished. If the control board breaks because it came with a vendor-installed self-destruct timer...you're in the latter case and not the former.

    • So, when do they start doing this with TVs, washing machines, automobiles, etc?

      Washing machines, never. TVs, also probably never, because we are used to connecting other devices to our TVs. But automobiles will move from being owned to being provided as a service, because people won't be able to afford autonomous vehicles. For the immediate future, the added price tag of the hardware will be enough to keep their ownership out of the hands of the masses.

      • But automobiles will move from being owned to being provided as a service, because people won't be able to afford autonomous vehicles. For the immediate future, the added price tag of the hardware will be enough to keep their ownership out of the hands of the masses.

        Renting is more profitable. Auto companies will try forcing rental anytime they have the leverage to force it. They inflate the cost of replacement parts and restrict repair tools to their dealers which also inflate labor costs to increase the cost of ownership vs leasing. That'll last right up until a maker of autonomous cars gets into financial trouble and sells to attract more customers. If that works, the rest will follow suit, but they'll certainly collude to delay that as long as possible if they can.

        • Renting is more profitable. Auto companies will try forcing rental anytime they have the leverage to force it. They inflate the cost of replacement parts and restrict repair tools to their dealers which also inflate labor costs to increase the cost of ownership vs leasing.

          And the corollary here is that EVs require much less maintenance, so they're going to have to have some other revenue-generation model anyway.

  • Roku or Kodi or Firesticks are less expensive in every way. Also more supported.

    I don't hate Apple. Apple makes some great stuff, if you don't mind paying 4X as much as similar tech from competitors.

    But I see no good reason to use Apple TV.

    Maybe I'm missing something?

  • Could enough users united and sue them for breaking their working devices ?

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