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Businesses Iphone The Almighty Buck Apple

Apple Only Wants To Put Its Stores Where White People Live, Investigation Reveals (theoutline.com) 497

Brian Josephs, writing for The Outline: New York's northernmost borough is the city's most diverse, has the lowest income per household, and is the only borough without an Apple Store after one opened up in Brooklyn's predominantly white neighborhood of Williamsburg last year. This trend holds true on a national scale. That means 251 of the 270 stores, or 93 percent, are located in majority-white ZIP codes. Of the 19 that are not located in majority-white ZIP codes, eight are in ZIP codes where whites are still the largest racial bloc. For context, Garden City, New York, a city with a population of around 22,000 that is 94 percent white, has an Apple Store. Lake Grove, New York, which has a population of around 11,000 and is 89 percent white, has an Apple Store. By comparison, nearly 1.5 million people live in the densely-packed Bronx, which is only 21 percent white. Bronx residents must travel either north to Ridge Hill or down to the Upper East Side to get to an Apple store. Apple told me it couldn't comment on the record about what criteria it uses to decide where new stores are built or the demographics of its stores' neighborhoods, but USC Marshall School of Business professor Ira Kalb reasoned that the company is "going after the high-end of the market, so their store location choices typically go after areas that are considered upscale."
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Apple Only Wants To Put Its Stores Where White People Live, Investigation Reveals

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  • Well (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) * <slashdot@jawthes h a r k .com> on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:26PM (#55604043) Homepage Journal
    You go where the money is? Reasonable business decision, I'd say.
    • Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Archangel Michael ( 180766 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:34PM (#55604163) Journal

      Its not just that, its that the people who live in low economic areas make excuses as to why crime against "the man" is okay. So they have higher costs they have to pay, to pay for the crime that they commit. It is self fulfilling at some point. "These people deserve it, because they are ripping us off" vs "I need to make a profit, and have to cover the cost of the theft".

      Please note, I am NOT mentioning skin color/race (until here), because it doesn't really matter for this discussion. The greatest victims of crime in poor neighborhoods are the poor in neighborhoods.

      • "Stickin' it to the man" is I believe the vernacular terminology used.
      • but you're doing a bang up job of blaming the victim. You do know that poor people don't actually go after whitey, no matter what Charles Manson [forward.com] tells you (read the article, I'm not just trolling).

        Poor people overwhelmingly commit crimes against other poor people. That makes sense. I've experienced the reason personally when I moved to a well to do area after landing a nice job and got followed around by cops in my junker car for 3 weeks until they learned I was harmless. If you're poor in a rich neighb
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          I am specifically not blaming the victim, but nice try. In fact, I specifically said " The greatest victims of crime in poor neighborhoods are the poor in neighborhoods."

          Being poor isn't a criminal act, and plenty of poor people don't commit crimes.

          Let me put it this way, if there was a natural disaster in your town, would your first thought be "Hey lets hit up Walmart for a Free BigScreen TV and some shoes"? Or would it be "what can I do to help my neighbors?"?

          How you answer might define why you are better

          • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            In the case of Apple products, overpriced Apple products (let's be honest) not picking on the poor, saves them from becoming victims of paying to much for over priced Apple products. Reality is they should have conducted a simple statistical test and compared Apple store numbers for rich pink skinned neighbourhoods (I don't get this white versus black shit, when it reality it is more pale pink to olive skinned versus light brown to dark brown, actual black people are really black not brown, once you are bro

    • Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tripleevenfall ( 1990004 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:39PM (#55604205)

      Business locates itself near high concentrations of its most lucrative customers, film at 11.

      • My city, San Jose, is 35% white, and has an Apple Store. There is a retail store at Apple's HQ in Cupertino. Cupertino is 29% white.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          You forgot in this context asians are white.
          • You forgot in this context asians are white.

            I'm not Asian but it must be odd for them to be categorized wherever they best fit the narrative that someone else is creating.

          • Are they really? Damn. And here I thought I was a reverse-racist for thinking some asian women were more beautiful than most caucasian women.

        • More correctly Cupertino is 98% non-black.

    • Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:45PM (#55604289) Homepage Journal

      You go where the money is? Reasonable business decision, I'd say.

      I'm guessing you'd find the same spread of stores vs neighborhood wealth with Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar dealerships...

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by WCMI92 ( 592436 )

        Put one of those in da hood.

      • by c ( 8461 )

        I'm guessing you'd find the same spread of stores vs neighborhood wealth with Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar dealerships...

        I wouldn't be shocked to find a similar spread of rich black people vs neighbourhood wealth.

    • Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)

      by houstonbofh ( 602064 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:55PM (#55604379)
      The only color Apple cares about is green.
    • This can be tested statistically. Iâ(TM)m not going to guess the answer.

  • Rich (Score:5, Informative)

    by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:28PM (#55604073)
    Not an Apple fan, but really? Right or wrong, 'white people' tend to live in more affluent neighborhoods. Seems to be non-news to me.
    • Re:Rich (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:40PM (#55604215)

      Where are the Apple stores in rural Appalachia?

      Where are the Apple stores in the trailer parks?

      • Apples and oranges. That's a density thing, whereas TFA is talking about affluence.
        • by msauve ( 701917 )
          TFA is talking about race. It should be talking about affluence. The GP's point is about the difference.
          • TFA is talking about race. It should be talking about affluence

            Which are both tightly linked. TFA is clickbaity as fuck, as Apple is a symptom as opposed to the problem, but it's a simple truth that being non-white in the US automatically puts a dent in your affluence and economic mobility.

            The GP's point is about the difference.

            Not really.
          • by Tailhook ( 98486 )

            Discovering and exploiting opportunities to contort mundane and legitimate things into racial grievance is a valuable skill in contemporary media. Now the next phase begins; leveraging this into lucrative settlements between Apple various pressure groups.

      • Where are the Apple stores in rural Appalachia?

        Where are the Apple stores in the trailer parks?

        Bingo. I had this "conversation" with a racist leftist lunatic on Quora. He claimed that Whole Foods was racist because, basically, they aren't building stores in the hood. I pointed out to him that Tractor Supply Company has the same racist biases, based on his "logic". I think he finally gave up and went to shit in someone else's punchbowl.

      • by Nutria ( 679911 )

        "North Dakota" (90% white) was my first thought...

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Where are the Apple stores in rural Appalachia?

        Where are the Apple stores in the trailer parks?

        The outraged class sees all whites as privileged and part of the upper middle class or better facts be damned. Facts like a huge number of white people are poor or disenfranchised don't count to them. SJWs are the useful idiots of the 1%'s to keep the 99% from ever getting economic justice.

    • by gnick ( 1211984 )

      I could probably use similar data to suggest that title loan businesses are targeting minorities.

    • Re:Rich (Score:5, Insightful)

      by schnell ( 163007 ) <{me} {at} {schnell.net}> on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:41PM (#55604233) Homepage

      Seriously. Whoever wrote this story and Slashdot's "editors" should both be ashamed of themselves. Really ashamed. Even more than usual.

      Apple makes expensive consumer electronics. They have stores. They put those stores where the people are who can afford them. If those happen to be in "white" ZIP codes, that's an inequity issue that can be chalked up to US society as a whole (and has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere), not to Apple's store selection. The headline might as well be "People With Money Only Want To Live In Expensive Neighborhoods, Investigation Reveals."

      The implication that Apple is somehow racist because of where they put their stores is just flamebait/clickbait of the worst sort. As in, genuinely harmful to society to stoke false racism claims. Serious shame here for everyone involved in producing this.

      • I think the reason why this got in, is because we are suppose to Hate Apple, and we want to find every reason to hate Apple and prove how Evil they really are...

        Apple is the worlds largest company, they do a lot of nasty things... However compared to Microsoft during the late 1990's, Apple has been a relatively good company in terms of not forcing us to be locked in. There is a thriving android market, and if You don't want an Apple device you are not really stuck with a no name brand that everyone laughs

  • Color or money ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:28PM (#55604079)

    The article makes it sounds like Apple selects the store locations based on skin color, but I suspect Apple just picks places with high potential customer demographics. That those areas happen to correlate with skin color is not Apple's fault.

    • It may not be Apple's fault but there is fault to be allocated here. It's time the nation reduced its efforts to shore up multi-generational dynasties and did more to help people earn money during their lifetimes based on maximizing their contribution to the world (or based on their need if they are born with some disability).
      • It's time the nation ... did more to help people earn money during their lifetimes

        Like, forcing parents to stay together to raise kids? Because the single greatest determining factor in a household's prosperity and a kid's eventual standard of living is: having both parents around, pooling resources and responsibilities as they raise and educate their kid(s). And yet in places like Baltimore's or Chicago's or Detroit's roughest, poorest, mostly-black neighborhoods, kids are 7-out-of-10 essentially raised by wolves, with a single mother who often has multiple children by multiple fathers

    • Being a company Apples size and popularity, they could be a driving force to change the demographics and wealth in these areas by putting a store in such areas.

      However Apple stores are not that big and they are not really big profit centers for a community, they are a relativity small store, who would higher a few dozen people. It would drive wealthier people into the areas to purchase the product, and perhaps they will visit other stores too.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm shocked that a company isn't selling expensive overpriced items in any of those affluent black neighborhoods.
  • by xmas2003 ( 739875 ) * on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:29PM (#55604087) Homepage
    Are you sure that Apple isn't just plunking their stores in places where people have more money? From TFA:
    "Apple Store neighborhoods have a median household income of about $73,475 per year; black American households earn a median average of $38,555, according to the ACS estimate for 2016. The median household income in the Bronx is $34,299."
    • by AC-x ( 735297 )

      Lake Grove, New York, which has a population of around 11,000 and is 89 percent white, has an Apple Store. By comparison, nearly 1.5 million people live in the densely-packed Bronx, which is only 21 percent white.

      What is the average income of the top 11,000 earners in the Bronx vs the average income of Lake Grove?

  • trolls (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TimMD909 ( 260285 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:30PM (#55604103) Homepage
    Seems that Slashdot is trolling us. Instead of realizing this is non-news, they're trying to race bait us.
    • by phayes ( 202222 )

      WTF Slashdot?!? Even Timmay on a sloooowwww sunday would never have posted this race baiting subject.

      If _this_ is the new slashdot that I'm going to be a ex-slashdotter.

  • by Gerv ( 15179 ) <gerv@ g e r v .net> on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:30PM (#55604111) Homepage

    Correlation does not imply causation. And in this case, it seems like there are pretty good candidates for the common cause. And the article even recognises that - the headline is clickbait.

  • It's just a hunch, but I have a feeling that this study is discarding much of the evidence that could suggest it was wrong as outlier data.

    But then again, many examples of so called blatant discrimination are often explained by confirmation bias as well, so it's hardly anything new.

  • What troll got put in charge of picking titles and articles? I seriously doubt Apple gives two shits about the skin color of their customers, it's all green to them after all.

    The worst that can be said is that Apple wants to build stores in areas with demographics which strongly correlate with skin color, but that's hardly surprising, nor would apple be alone in this behavior.

  • Wow! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:38PM (#55604193)

    Apple doesn't put stores in regions where people can't afford 1100$ phones?
    Who would have thought?

  • Another recent article on that website: https://theoutline.com/post/25... [theoutline.com]

    And I quote:

    Okay, so, here's a controversial opinion that will likely anger some people. You don't have to say anything. Ever. About anything. Ever. Especially if you're a man.

    • I had to have a look myself. To be fair, she is responding to some pretty self-righteous men in her column. The only problem is she is responding ALSO in the most arrogant, self-righteous way possible.

      tl;dr douchebags being douchebags
      • I had to have a look myself. To be fair, she is responding to some pretty self-righteous men in her column. The only problem is she is responding ALSO in the most arrogant, self-righteous way possible.

        I'd say that's certainly NOT the only problem with her statement. There are douchebags of every gender out there, it's misandrist to imply all men. To put it differently, it would be as if I pretended that she were an example of all women, and made pronouncements based on that. I would be labeled a bigot,

  • Yellow Journalism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheFakeTimCook ( 4641057 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:45PM (#55604277)

    They used to call "baiting" articles like TFA here "Yellow Journalism". I'm not sure where the "Yellow" came from; but the definition is "Something published as 'News' that is actually nothing more than the author's Opinion, and generally published to further the author's agenda".

    Plus, as many others here have pointed out, Correlation is not Causation. Apple is studiously, almost fervently, ethnically and culturally-diverse in its policies, advertising, marketing and even product design. And they don't just talk the talk, they actually walk the walk, too.

    This article really should be taken down, and the Slashdot editor that approved it should be dismissed, with an Apology to Apple.

    • by RedK ( 112790 )

      They used to call "baiting" articles like TFA here "Yellow Journalism". I'm not sure where the "Yellow" came from; but the definition is "Something published as 'News' that is actually nothing more than the author's Opinion, and generally published to further the author's agenda".

      So basically any article you read online these days. Journalism died a few years back. Everything is Opinion pieces these days, light on facts, heavy on "This is why this is bad/good!".

    • Yellow ... like piss I guess.

      Actually, I found the title quite hilarious. The funniest part is "investigation reveals". You need to be quite an investigator to be able to "reveal" such incredible facts.

    • Re:Yellow Journalism (Score:5, Informative)

      by cervesaebraciator ( 2352888 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @02:02PM (#55605029)

      I'm not sure where the "Yellow" came from [...]

      In the late 19th century Pulitzer and Hearst were going at it hammer and tongs trying to outsell one another in the newspaper business. They ended up in a contest over who could come up with the most sensationalized headlines and copy to sell papers. One of the simplest going theories for the origin of the term in the use of yellow ink during this period of big, exaggerated headlines. There are, however, other theories [ufl.edu] as well.

  • they dont want to put their stores in the ghetto??
    the nerve of some people, how dare they avoid the high crime areas [/sarcasm]
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:57PM (#55604393)

    You see, black skin contrasts so horribly with the case... you can't have that!

  • This shit again? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by blindseer ( 891256 ) <blindseer@ear[ ]ink.net ['thl' in gap]> on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @12:58PM (#55604405)

    Not that long ago I saw right here on Slashdot that we had (A) identified a gene for a kind of cancer that was very difficult to treat and (B) this gene was largely unique to people of African ancestry. So, because we have a high rate of people that die of cancer of African ancestry therefore racism. But we were just told this tendency was genetic! A + B = racism, that's the only way to add that up apparently.

    When I go to most any store to buy electronic the people at the cash register will ask for a ZIP code. I asked one day why they did this, it was so they could plan for more stores. I hated being asked for my address before, as that meant I'd get more crap in the mail from the stores. This practice is rare now, but they still ask for your ZIP code.

    When more minorities buy stuff from Apple, and give their ZIP code, then we'll see more stores in those neighborhoods.

    I remember seeing some comedy skit where Blacks were portrayed as paranoid about being tracked by the government. Is there some truth to this? I didn't get the joke. If this is true, and many minorities are reluctant to give their ZIP code then the people that plan where stores go don't know that people willing to buy their stuff are traveling so far to buy. Maybe this has something to do with the culture that comes with the race. Paranoid parents raise paranoid children.

    Another thing I see are neighborhoods that protest when someone wants to open a store there. Walmart is a popular target. Walmart, or whomever, wants to open a store because they think people will shop there. People in the neighborhood protest because they this this store will bring the "wrong" kind of people to the neighborhood, or there's some racist undertone to the store. (Selling chicken in a Black neighborhood? Are you racist?)

    Here's the deal, not everything is about race. If all people see is racism then I think they protest too much.

  • This is nothing more than your typical "correlation is not causation" scenario.

    Whenever you find yourself reading a story which might lend itself to a questionable cause-and-effect relationship, the questions you have to ask yourself are simply: 1) Who wrote this? and 2) What is their agenda?

    Because there is almost always an agenda.

  • "...has the lowest income per household..."

    This is more than likely the ONLY reason Apple doesn't put it's stores there. Their devices are already sold at a premium, so why would they put their stores in places less likely to be patronized? WTF does this have to do with race??

  • Actually, Apple wants to be in areas with high concentrations of wealthy millennials and hipsters. Fuck it! Let them. There are better options than Apple out there - less expensive too.
  • Map the stores to INCOME, not skin color.
    Yes, there's high commonality to white = wealthy, people of color = less wealthy, but you could just as easily say "Apple wants to place its stores near people with expensive haircuts" or "...people who travel a lot".

    Of course, one could map it to skin color if one was disingenuous and wanted a divisive clickbait headline. But who would be such an asshole as to do that deliberately?

  • Right in the summary :

    New York's northernmost borough is the city's most diverse, has the lowest income per household

    But go right ahead and tell me how this is a race thing. Next up, learn how mysoginy means only mothers are expected to breastfeed their children!

  • Apple puts stores where there are customers who will buy their products. This includes various cities in China, Africa and other nations where the whites are a minor portion of the population. See Google Maps:

    https://www.google.com/maps/se... [google.com]

  • https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/c... [xkcd.com] Letâ(TM)s be glad the article goes further than the headline. Thatâ(TM)s becoming rare stuff these days.
  • With fewer than 300 stores nation-wide, it's perfectly acceptable that they locate their stores, peddling $1K phones, $2K laptops, and $3K desktops, where people can likely afford them.

    Building a store in a neighborhood with few potential customers is a bad business decision.

    These aren't social experiments or welfare offices - these are for-profit businesses.

  • has the lowest income per household

    is the only borough without an Apple Store

    I can't help but think there's a less insidious, more direct relationship at work here...

  • Reuters is reporting that Illegal student labor is being used to assemble the new iPhone X.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-foxconn-labour/apple-says-illegal-student-labor-discovered-at-iphone-x-plant-idUSKBN1DM1LA

    So... where's your moral outrage for the poor people that have to make the damn things to begin with? I think that beats your moral outrage over Apples sales practices by a wide margin.

  • by kwerle ( 39371 ) <kurt@CircleW.org> on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @01:48PM (#55604899) Homepage Journal

    https://www.apple.com/retail/s... [apple.com]
    Beijing
    Chaoyang Joy City
    101 Chaoyang North Road
    Chaoyang District
    4006171284

    China Central Mall
    China Central Mall
    81 Jianguo Road, Chaoyang District
    4006171210

    Sanlitun
    Building 6, No. 19, Sanlitun Road
    Taikoo Li Sanlitun, Chaoyang District
    4006171363

    Wangfujing
    Beijing apm, No. 138 Wangfujing Street
    Dongcheng District
    4006171205

    Xidan Joy City
    131 North Xidan Avenue, Joy City
    Xicheng District
    4006171204

    Chongqing
    Jiefangbei
    108 Zourong Road
    Yuzhong District
    4006171224

    MixC Chongqing
    55 Xiejiawan Street
    Jiulongpo District
    4006171215

    Paradise Walk Chongqing
    8 Paradise Walk
    Jiangbei District
    4006171240

    Fujian
    Thaihot Plaza
    Thaihot Plaza
    6 Zhuyu Road, Jin’an District
    4006171354

    Xiamen Lifestyle Center
    SM Lifestyle Center
    No.399 JiaheRoad, Siming District
    4006171383

    Guangdong
    Parc Central
    No. 218, Tianhe Road
    Tianhe District
    4006139742

    Zhujiang New Town
    International Grand City L1
    222 Xingmin Road, Zhujiang New Town
    4006393601

    Holiday Plaza Shenzhen

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @01:49PM (#55604915)
    First, putting 93% of their stores in majority-white zip codes is meaningless without also knowing what percentage of zip codes are majority-white. Pulling some demographics out of a zip code database [zipwho.com] gives 17,409 zip codes which are more than 50% white. 2591 zip codes where whites are 50.0% or fewer. So white-majority zip codes comprise (17409)/(17409+2591) = 87.0% of all zip codes.

    That is, if Apple located the stores randomly based on zip code, you would expect 87% of them to be in white-majority zip codes. On top of that, there's a margin of error [wikipedia.org]. 99% of the time, you'd expect these stores to fall within a range of (2.576)*sqrt((0.87)*(1-0.87)/(270)) = 0.0527, or +/- 5.3%. That is, 99% of the time you sprinkled the stores randomly in a table of zip codes, you'd end up between 81.7% to 92.3% of stores in white-majority zip codes. 93% falls just outside this range, so we're talking about just barely being 99% confident that this is a real deviation, not a random occurrence.

    Second, these are zip codes, not areas of equal population or population. Zip codes vary in population [npr.org] by about a 7:1 ratio. It's much more advantageous for a business to put a store into a zip code with a high population. So if there's any correlation between zip code population and racial diversity, it could be enough to offset the margin statistical significance we found above. I don't have time to research this, but my hunch would be that the low population zip codes tend to be skewed towards white-minority (e.g. remote areas like Indian reservations, sections of Alaska with large Inuit population, etc) compared to white-majority zip codes. Since a business is unlikely to put a store in an area of low population, that would erase a good chunk of the discrepancy between 87% and 93%.

    Third, related to the second, is that high population density zip codes [zipatlas.com] tend to be smaller and near other high population density zip codes. So whereas a store in a medium population density zip code may be meant to stand on its own, a store in a high population density zip code may be meant to draw customers from nearby zip codes. That is, people in neighboring zip codes are expected to travel the short distance to the single store servicing all those zip codes. I also suspect that high population density zip codes tend to be more white-minority (e.g. the Bronx). If so, this would also skew the number of stores in minority zip codes down. Not because there are fewer stores within a x mile radius, but because there are more zip codes within an x mile radius.

    tl;dr - This looks more like just a straight random distribution, with some biasing due to how minorities tend to distribute themselves geographically compared to whites. Not some form of discrimination on Apple's part.
  • by XSportSeeker ( 4641865 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @03:12PM (#55605673)

    Apple is not obliged to put their stores in places chosen by anyone else other than themselves, this is pure speculation based on spurrious correlation, and it's just plain stupid to think they have anything else other than money on strategic placement of stores.
    And I'm not a fan of the company myself, but if you are gonna write some hitpiece article, you are gonna have to do better than this crap.

    This is the kind of stupid shit article that makes people create terms like SJWs and use it in a derrogatory manner.
    You are not contributing to the discussion here. Unless you found some internal memo stating that the construction of Apple stores needs to avoid black neighborhoods specifically or something like that, this is just bullshit. It's pure sensationalist use of statistics to bend the company image with some lame ass weak and indirect libel.

    I'd avoid posting anything from the source of this crap in the future, as it's no different than Breitbart pulling crap out of their asses.
    Fucking shame to put such piece of garbage here, I thought Slashdot was better than that.

  • by cyber-vandal ( 148830 ) on Wednesday November 22, 2017 @04:04PM (#55606099) Homepage

    Virtually 100% white, not a single Apple store. Must be racism.

  • by thisisauniqueid ( 825395 ) on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:33AM (#55610225)
    I'd wager that store location is more strongly correlated with income bracket than it is with skin color.

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