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Bluetooth Won't Replace the Headphone Jack -- Walled Gardens Will (theverge.com) 380

Last year, when it was rumoured that the then upcoming iPhone models -- 7 and 7 Plus -- won't have the 3.5mm audio jack, The Verge's Nilay Patel wrote that if Apple does do it, it would be a user-hostile and stupid move. When those iPhone models were official announced, they indeed didn't have the audio jack. Earlier this week, Android-maker Google announced the Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL smartphones that also don't feature the decades-old audio jack either, a move that would likely push rest of the smartphone makers to adopt a similar change. The rationale behind killing the traditional headphones jack, both Apple and Google say, is to move to an improved technology: Bluetooth. But there is another motive at play here, it appears. Patel, writes for The Verge: As the headphone jack disappears, the obvious replacement isn't another wire with a proprietary connector like Apple's Lightning or the many incompatible and strange flavors of USB-C audio. It's Bluetooth. And Bluetooth continues to suck, for a variety of reasons. Newer phones like the iPhone 8, Galaxy S8, and the Pixel 2 have Bluetooth 5, which promises to be better, but 1. There are literally no Bluetooth 5 headphones out yet, and 2. we have definitely heard that promise before. So we'll see. To improve Bluetooth, platform vendors like Apple and Google are riffing on top of it, and that means they're building custom solutions. And building custom solutions means they're taking the opportunity to prioritize their own products, because that is a fair and rational thing for platform vendors to do. Unfortunately, what is fair and rational for platform vendors isn't always great for markets, competition, or consumers. And at the end of this road, we will have taken a simple, universal thing that enabled a vibrant market with tons of options for every consumer, and turned it into yet another limited market defined by ecosystem lock-in. The playbook is simple: last year, Apple dropped the headphone jack and replaced it with its W1 system, which is basically a custom controller chip and software management layer for Bluetooth. The exemplary set of W1 headphones is, of course, AirPods, but Apple also owns Beats, and there are a few sets of W1 Beats headphones available as well. You can still use regular Bluetooth headphones with an iPhone, and you can use AirPods as regular Bluetooth headphones, but the combination iPhone / W1 experience is obviously superior to anything else on the market. [...] Google's version of this is the Pixel Buds, a set of over-ear neckbuds that serve as basic Bluetooth headphones but gain additional capabilities when used with certain phones. Seamless fast pairing? You need Android N or higher, which most Android phones don't have.
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Bluetooth Won't Replace the Headphone Jack -- Walled Gardens Will

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  • Latency (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:43PM (#55322715)

    So, does the new Bluetooth standards fix latency problems? Specifically, when watching video (hooked up to a monitor via HDMI) and listening to a bluetooth headset, the audio sync is *always* off.

  • $300 headphones (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HBI ( 604924 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:44PM (#55322729) Journal

    Not going to buy a new set because Apple - or Google wants me to. Fuck them. I'd sooner switch cell phones. Eventually, the manufacturers will get the message.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 )

      Not going to buy a new set because Apple - or Google wants me to. Fuck them. I'd sooner switch cell phones. Eventually, the manufacturers will get the message.

      Good, then you'll be happy. I've used plain old headphones with my iPhone 7.

      But hey, it's good to see a man of your convictions, have you considered a feature phone?

    • Eventually, the manufacturers will get the message.

      Or die a suitably painful death; I'm hoping for the latter.

    • by epine ( 68316 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @03:38PM (#55323751)

      Eventually, the manufacturers will get the message.

      Yes, nothing sends a message like 3% of your least-profitable customers banding together to found an organic juniper berry & desert reclamation profit-sharing co-operative.

      • by HBI ( 604924 )

        It'll go in phases. Someone will eventually fill the need. They'll pretend the loss of profits is something else until someone achieves the magic formula.

  • by Guspaz ( 556486 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:46PM (#55322757)

    > And Bluetooth continues to suck, for a variety of reasons.

    Does it? I have bluetooth headphones. They are not made by a company affiliated to either my computer or my telephone, the two devices I use them with. I turn my headphones on and audio starts coming out of them. The audio sounds fine. What part of my experience sucks?

    Most of the author's complaints seem to revolve around how most fast-pairing protocols are currently proprietary, but... pairing your headphones is something you don't do very often, so it's at best a minor inconvenience.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by JohnFen ( 1641097 )

      Does it?

      Yes.

      The audio sounds fine.

      I'm glad it's fine for you. For me, it's far from fine.

      • Does it?

        Yes.

        The audio sounds fine.

        I'm glad it's fine for you. For me, it's far from fine.

        What is worse, Apple makes absolutely no way that person can use th obviously superior headphone with the 1/8th inch jack It's impossible! and never will be.

        And before you start shitting your pants about the Dongle, that unuseable piece of equipment that probably destroys your phone - if for some reason you actually do need top tier headphones, well, those need a dongle too as an adapter. All my studio phones have the larger jacks on them. Yer talkin shite, and you just hate Apple, and are now getting

      • by MightyYar ( 622222 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:23PM (#55323093)

        I'm glad it's fine for you. For me, it's far from fine.

        I agree that you can hear the difference between BlueTooth and wired. I think most people could in a decent listening environment. The thing is that the Venn Diagram has a very tiny intersection point at "People who care", "People who listen to high-quality recordings on their phone", and "People who use their phone to listen to music in conditions approaching anywhere near an ideal".

        When the marketing department sees the throngs of people salivating over ooooo... skinny! vs the handful of people complaining about DACs and jacks - well, they make their choice.

        In the end, the pickier users can get the USB-C/lightning adapter and move on with life - so long as their battery is nice and fresh!

    • The audio sounds fine.

      It sounds okay if both devices support true lossless. I'm going to guess that my bluetooth speaker system (2015 Suburban with factory Bose) is probably more capable than whatever you're using... and it still sounds better if I use analog aux-in.

    • by Rakarra ( 112805 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @03:26PM (#55323673)

      > And Bluetooth continues to suck, for a variety of reasons.

      Does it?

      Yes. It absolutely does. Here's my day to day experience with bluetooth.
      Get in the car, set the phone down and turn the car audio to bluetooth mode. Fortunately, it's still 'technically' paired so I don't have to re-pair. However, the last device that my car audio was paired with tends to be my husband's phone, so now the audio system flails a bit while trying to figure out how to connect. Even though my Galaxy S reports that the BT audio has connected immediately, the car audio (comes with the 2016 Leaf, so not exactly ancient) says that the device is not connected. So I'll pull over to the side of the road and start fiddling. I'll select my phone from the car's bluetooth menu, it'll pop up a "downloading address book" popup status message. I didn't ask it to do this, there's no option to turn this off. This step naturally never succeeds. I cancel, try again. Same thing. Eventually, it'll just start skipping this step and I'll get a 'connect' button finally. This step usually works.

      I'll usually have to kill the youtube process on my phone since Youtube's app is not smart enough to switch to a new bluetooth connection when it happens (when I'm in the car, I'll get a hankering to listen to a specific song I don't have on my phone. I've found Youtube is the best for that). Now, thanks to collisions in instructions between the car and the phone, the audio stream will start, auto-pause, and then start again. At that point, I'll either have gotten into a car accident or arrived at my destination.

      My husband told me that the process probably wouldn't be nearly as rough if we weren't switching devices all the time, that the car wouldn't have to flail around reconnecting. But generally he'll connect his phone during the week, and I'll connect mine during the weekend. Maybe it really would be better if there was just one music device per output. I could blame my car audio system, and I certainly do, but the other car audio systems with bluetooth I'd tried were even worse. This being more recent, it actually works better.

      It shouldn't be surprising that my husband's iphone works a bit better than my Samsung Galaxy -- of course the cars with the fancy audio systems will be designed for Apple's stuff. But I'm not looking forward to my next car where most likely there won't even be an analog jack, nor do I look forward to the "phones of the future" which will have no audio jack but instead some fucked up sound system that requires more fiddling than analog wires ever did, requires batteries that have to be recharged and will die out and are likely not replaceable, and sound worse than ye olde analog.

      But geez, at least it doesn't have wires! Wires are horrible! So horrible that it's worth all these other sound fuckups just to get rid of wires!

      • So I'll pull over to the side of the road and start fiddling. I'll select my phone from the car's bluetooth menu, it'll pop up a "downloading address book" popup status message. I didn't ask it to do this, there's no option to turn this off. This step naturally never succeeds. I cancel, try again. Same thing. Eventually, it'll just start skipping this step and I'll get a 'connect' button finally. This step usually works.

        I'll usually have to kill the youtube process on my phone since Youtube's app is not smart enough to switch to a new bluetooth connection when it happens (when I'm in the car, I'll get a hankering to listen to a specific song I don't have on my phone. I've found Youtube is the best for that). Now, thanks to collisions in instructions between the car and the phone, the audio stream will start, auto-pause, and then start again. At that point, I'll either have gotten into a car accident or arrived at my destination.

        That sounds remarkably like the audio experience in Linux on the desktop.

  • by orphiuchus ( 1146483 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:47PM (#55322761)

    I already have audio technica m50x's and beyerdynamic dt770s. I'm not buying a phone that they won't work with, and I'm not switching to your fucking bluetooth beats you greedy fucks.

  • by TheFakeTimCook ( 4641057 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:47PM (#55322765)

    The reason why Apple (and Beats, and some other Mfgs) BT earbuds/headphones are superior is not dependent on Bluetooth 5.0; it is because they support a far-superior CODEC, namely AAC, than typical shitbox BT 'phones/'buds.

    Mind you, stuff like Apple's W1/W2 chips helps; but the main improvement is due to AAC.

    And no, the proprietary aptX is NOT an equivalent. And did I mention "proprietary" (owned by Qualcomm)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    By contrast, AAC is an industry-standard (not Apple-proprietary, as many believe).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Look into it.

    • by JohnFen ( 1641097 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:52PM (#55322811)

      (and Beats, and some other Mfgs) BT earbuds/headphones are superior

      Beats? Superior??

      Beats is downright terrible. They're one of, if not the, worst-sounding in their price range.

      • Beats? Superior??

        The software EQ with the most superior marketing.

      • (and Beats, and some other Mfgs) BT earbuds/headphones are superior

        Beats? Superior??

        Beats is downright terrible. They're one of, if not the, worst-sounding in their price range.

        Ok, but I don't think that is due to their use of AAC, do you?

        • I doubt it, but I wasn't really commenting on AAC. I was just surprised at seeing Beats mentioned as being something superior.

      • They don't sound terrible to me. Sure, they don't sound as good as a pair of over-the-hear studio headphones, but then again, if I'm in a position where I *want* to really enjoy my music to the fullest extent possible, I wouldn't be using some little bluetooth headphones anyway. I would be using a set of high quality studio headphones, if not actual regular speakers. When I am out and about, *who cares* if the sound isn't top quality? I challenge anyone to be able to pick out the subtle nuances of a son

    • The file format of the music - be it AAC, FLAC, WAV, etc - is entirely orthogonal to the discussion.
      • FLAC is too big for BT, so no its not entirely orthogonal.
      • by evilned ( 146392 )

        Well not with apple. Apple send the raw AAC stream to the headphones for them to decompress and play. Sony's high end ones support it too. The problem becomes that if your music is coming from Spotify, Google or Pandora, they are sent to the headphones by SBC (the lowest quality bluetooth codec) . On android, some manufacturers have added Apt-X or LDAC encoding, so the stream sent to the headphones is higher quality. You're still experiencing encoding artifacts from what ever the music is encoded with pl

    • The reason why Apple (and Beats, and some other Mfgs) BT earbuds/headphones are superior is not dependent on Bluetooth 5.0; it is because they support a far-superior CODEC, namely AAC, than typical shitbox BT 'phones/'buds.

      Mind you, stuff like Apple's W1/W2 chips helps; but the main improvement is due to AAC.

      And no, the proprietary aptX is NOT an equivalent. And did I mention "proprietary" (owned by Qualcomm)?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      By contrast, AAC is an industry-standard (not Apple-proprietary, as many believe).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      Look into it.

      By the time the music starts its path across Bluetooth (or a headphone jack) it's already decoded.

      • The reason why Apple (and Beats, and some other Mfgs) BT earbuds/headphones are superior is not dependent on Bluetooth 5.0; it is because they support a far-superior CODEC, namely AAC, than typical shitbox BT 'phones/'buds.

        Mind you, stuff like Apple's W1/W2 chips helps; but the main improvement is due to AAC.

        And no, the proprietary aptX is NOT an equivalent. And did I mention "proprietary" (owned by Qualcomm)?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        By contrast, AAC is an industry-standard (not Apple-proprietary, as many believe).

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        Look into it.

        By the time the music starts its path across Bluetooth (or a headphone jack) it's already decoded.

        Definitely true of WIRED connections (analog or digital); but for BT, AFAIK, notsomuch. Why else would they have certain audio CODECS listed?

      • Unfortunately that's not true - well, it's sort of true but not in a meaningful way. Audio has to be transmitted over BT compressed because there's not enough bandwidth for a solid, reliable, uncompressed 44kHz 16 bit stereo signal at the power levels BT devices are expected to support. (Technically Bluetooth can transmit/receive up to 50Mbps, but power and interference issues means nothing actually makes use of those kinds of speeds for sustained use.)

        So a typical music player will decompress the music,

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      According to Apple's documentation [netdna-cdn.com] they seem to be using AAC at 256kb/sec. That's considerably lower than aptX at around 360kb/sec.

      Of course you can argue over which sounds better but since most headphones don't support AAC it's really more of a choice of do you want shitty Beats/Earpods, or do you want some good headphones in which case the lack of aptX support in iOS is a bit of a problem.

  • Nope (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JohnFen ( 1641097 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:47PM (#55322769)

    a move that would likely push rest of the smartphone makers to adopt a similar change

    Not the ones that I'll be buying from, until there is an alternative to the wire that is at least as good.

    If that means I'm buying a older model, so be it. It probably won't, though. My

    prediction is that there will be high-end smartphones with headphone jacks for a few years yet. There will probably be at least one remaining manufacturer that will be happy to take the money from people Apple and Google have decided are no longer important to them.

  • by thegreatbob ( 693104 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:51PM (#55322795) Journal
    Mhmm. Right. One should think of the headphone jack as a simple electrical interface, rather than some sort of magical sound-transport medium. Past a certain point in the hardware, it's all analog anyhow. We seem to be arriving in a brave new world where we eventually won't even be able to connect light bulbs directly to the power grid. Something something luddite. Something something courage. That is all.
    • by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:16PM (#55323017)

      Mhmm. Right. One should think of the headphone jack as a simple electrical interface, rather than some sort of magical sound-transport medium.

      Well there you are wrong. My audiophile friends and me have done the experiments, and the best sound possible is found when using the small headphone jacks. It lends a vibrancy and a sort of anti-listening fatigue to teh sound. The 1/8th inch phone jack also extends th ehigh and low end of any headphone, an dthe crispness efface due to the smaller spring metal used, can make a 5 dollar headphone bought at Big Lots sound much superior to a stutio headphone, sa a Beyerdynamic. Where after listening to test tones for a hundred straight hours had people tearing the phones off their heads and run screaming out of the room, while the 5 dollar Big Lot's phones and the exquisite 1/8th inch jack and plugs we had to turn off the test tones after two weeks because we were concerned about the wearers starving to death, and they sure didn't smell good by that time.

      Audiophile approved as a critical component of anyone who isn't tone deaf.

      • I stand corrected!
      • The 1/8th inch phone jack also extends th ehigh and low end of any headphone, an dthe crispness efface due to the smaller spring metal used,

        This sounds like the kind of stuff you read in the ads in high-end audiophile magazines, where people will sell you 000 gauge power cords for your power amps because the big wire has a lower impedance and allows the amp to reproduce low frequencies better. Or the company that was selling a gold plated digital-certified HDMI cables for, IIRC, $400, because it guaranteed error-free digital sound and video. Or deoxygenated copper cables, or any number of other snake oils.

  • by Sniper98G ( 1078397 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:51PM (#55322801)

    The real problem with removing the 3.5mm jack is with headphone durability. If you use earbuds a lot chance are you wear them out at intervals. When you have a 3.5mm jack and you drop a bud in a glass of water, you say that sucks and go buy another cheap pair of buds.

    • The real problem with removing the 3.5mm jack is with headphone durability. If you use earbuds a lot chance are you wear them out at intervals. When you have a 3.5mm jack and you drop a bud in a glass of water, you say that sucks and go buy another cheap pair of buds.

      I've listened to regular 3.5 mm plug phones on my iPhone 7. It isn't magic.

      • by Quirkz ( 1206400 )

        With the dongle, sure. But either I need to buy three dongles (car, office, and home) and then hope I don't lose the little things, or I have to try to carry it with me everywhere, which almost assures that I it'll get washed or lost or left behind pretty quickly. And there's at least a couple of hours at work where I can't listen and charge my phone at the same time. That's not ideal, and certainly a step down from what I've got now.

    • I've had the opposite durability problem: the headphone jacks on my last two phones have been flaky and progressively harder to keep working with any earbuds. Bluetooth is my solution for that.

      • Bluetooth makes a good backup indeed for 3.5mm users, and the converse is true too... not affording people multiple avenues of achieving their ends is unkind. Comparable to removing decades-old, well-understood keyboard shortcuts from an application because most people now have a mouse.
  • by pdfsmail ( 2423750 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @01:59PM (#55322869) Homepage

    It adds extra bullshit to something that should be as simple.(like plug it in)
    instead pair your device, make sure its charged and make sure to turn off Bluetooth when you are not using it! Then when done add those extra batteries to the electronic graveyard! I have had plenty of jacks work for years, I have also had Bluetooth transmitters that sucked so bad they were choppy from 3 feet away or burned out . I can replace a jack in most devices. Not an integrated Bluetooth chip.
    Great Job!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:02PM (#55322891)

    was a depressed Goth teenager saying "don't bother... it's probably just going to suck anyways".

  • by hyades1 ( 1149581 ) <hyades1@hotmail.com> on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:08PM (#55322949)

    If there really is such a thing as a free market, at least one of the major manufacturers should keep making a phone with the headphone jack. There have to be millions of people who are entirely uninterested in finding themselves locked into what will probably evolve into a one-station radio, with its own stable of "approved" entertainers, and no doubt a "how often can we shear the sheep" approach to monthly fees.

  • by deviated_prevert ( 1146403 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:11PM (#55322965) Journal
    Jackasses. Take your cloud music services bullshit and shove it up your analogue holes. Bluetooth devices are garbage audio like most of the crap being sold as digital files. The assholes are still 'normalizing' and ruining the great classical recordings to make them more audible in car stereo settings. As far as I am concerned the whole recording industry has turned into a bunch of morons who couldn't tell the difference between flugelhorn and a fucking fog horn.

    Yes I am pissed at these assholes, Sony, Apple, Google and the whole shebang deserve to be roasted for what they do to classical recordings. Sell me pure 24 bit by at least 96 audio files of great well mixed recordings and I will pay but as long as you jackasses 'normalize' and compress the shit out of classical recording I want nothing to do with you and you will not get one more cent out of my pocket period.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:12PM (#55322981)

    The other is currently a non-removable battery. Sure, the "high end" crap is a no-go that way, but I will get a phone designed by actual engineers, not by marketing morons and wannabe "designers". It will also be much cheaper and do what I need.

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:14PM (#55322999) Journal
    Almost everyone blindly says, "free market will provide the maximum benefit at minimum cost", without trying to look at the basic assumptions made.

    For the invisible hand of the free market to work, you need competition. You also need informed customers making rational decisions. If customers are not informed, or if they are apathetic or if they make irrational decisions, it would produce weird results.

    Market bubbles from tulip bubbles to emu farming to credit default swap derivatives ... to million people a day buying phones sans headphone jacks.

    • The problem is that you have requirements that the rest of the world doesn't care about.
    • Huh? Bluetooth instead of headphone jacks is a market bubble? Do you logic?

      • Headphone jacks will provide maximum benefit at minimum cost. But the market is going away from it. Market bubbles are a well known failure mode. This is another failure mode. Bubbles burst. At some point a cheaper alternative to walled garden will emerge, it might even be a better blue tooth
  • by dnaumov ( 453672 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:17PM (#55323023)

    âBluetooth continues to suckâ.

    No it fucking doesnâ(TM)t, so stop with the BS. Yes, its true that cheapass bluetooth headpones are bad. Buy the good ones, of which there are many, instead. As more and more people move to wireless, their price will continue to go down. It was pretty hilarious to read about how the Airpods were supposedly âexpensiveâ. Apple literally came in and ate everybodyâ(TM)s lunch. Wireless headphones that used to cost $400 are now $200-250 all of a sudden because Apple forced other manufacturers to respond. Yes, I get that you want your âgood enoughâ headphones for $20 and these are not far away any longer.

    • by sconeu ( 64226 )

      For me, it's not that Airpods are expensive. It's that they are UNCOMFORTABLE. Apple earbuds in general hurt my ears. I much prefer the type of earbuds that use gels (such as Skullcandy).

      • by dnaumov ( 453672 )

        For me, it's not that Airpods are expensive. It's that they are UNCOMFORTABLE. Apple earbuds in general hurt my ears. I much prefer the type of earbuds that use gels (such as Skullcandy).

        I actually agree with you. I personally tried out Airpods and ended up getting Beats X instead. Those fit me right ouf the box and come with a set of FOUR replacement eartips of different size.

  • I can't see any major player removing support for Bluetooth Audio. So consumers will end with a choice of either using BT, using a legacy headphone jack through a (hopefully free in the box) adapter or using a new one.

    This is kind of the opposite of a walled garden, as I understand the term. Here consumers have a choice. In order to be a walled garden, they would have to start locking out all the non-proprietary methods.

  • by freak0fnature ( 1838248 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:19PM (#55323057)
    Just what I need, to make sure my bluetooth device is charged regularly...and another device to buy and throw away when the battery fails, When my earbuds pop out, I don't have to go looking for them because they are still attached to the phone.
  • just make the new generation of headphones and earbuds use the micro-usb or usb-C or whatever usb the phones will have, it cant be that difficult to send audio that way, and we should not have to buy a 1/8 inch mini plug to usb adapter, include the adapter with the phone or make earbuds or headphones already compatible, (bluetooth is sort of a disappointment for music and streaming audio) about all bluetooth is good for is voice communications, the music stream is just a tad bit too much bandwidth for bluet
    • Yeah, but then you can't use the USB jack for anything else. We're still talking about a loss of functionality.

  • Big difference (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Albanach ( 527650 ) on Friday October 06, 2017 @02:23PM (#55323085) Homepage

    There's a pretty huge difference between saying for best audio quality you need headphones made by us, our subsidiaries, or those who are paying us a licensing fee (Apple) and "Seamless fast pairing? You need Android N or higher, which most Android phones don't have." (Google).

    Google haven't added something to the phone that means only headphones they produce or license can work, instead they added something to a headphone. And others could make headphones that do the same thing without paying special fees to Google. And the OS requirement doesn't mean you need a Nexus or Pixel phone, it could be from Motorola, or Samsung or LG or countless others.

       

  • A few months ago I bought Samsung U-Pro wireless headphones and granted they were cheaper than my 10 year old wired headphones which cost 10 times as much but the BT headphones weren't even as good as the headphones that came with my Walkman in 1985.

    Through my laptop they sounded extremely tinny. Maybe it's just Samsung who I should know better than to buy anything from but I couldn't believe how bad they sounded. They sounded a little better through my phone which is NOT a Samsung - I read something aft

  • Apple and Google competitors. Just start buying from companies that don't suck as bad.

  • I got bluetooth headphones from Aliexpress for 12 bucks and they're better than the white wired free ones.
    Why would anybody shell out lots of dough for a cable?

  • ...honestly, I keep BT off most of the time unless I really need to use it as that saves the battery power. Not to mention there's a nice little hack going around that's enabled via BT.

    I'll keep my wired, 1/8" jack than you.

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