Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Businesses Desktops (Apple) IOS The Almighty Buck Apple

Apple Piles On the Features, and Users Say, 'Enough!' (nytimes.com) 191

Posted by msmash from the what-we-want-what-we-get dept.
In a few hours, Apple will kickstart its annual developer conference. At the event, the company is expected to announce new MacBook laptops, the next major updates for iOS and MacOS, new features of Siri, and a home-speaker. Ahead of the conference, The New York Times has run a story that talks some of the headline announcements that Apple announced last year: one of which was, the ability to order food, scribble doodles and send funny images known as stickers in chats on its Messages app. Speaking with users, engineers and industry insiders, the Times reports that many of its existing features -- including expansion of Messages -- are too complicated for many users to figure out (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternative source). From the report: The idea was to make Messages, one of the most popular apps on the iPhone, into an all-purpose tool like China's WeChat. But the process of finding and installing other apps in Messages is so tricky that most users have no idea they can even do it, developers and analysts say.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple Piles On the Features, and Users Say, 'Enough!' More

Apple Piles On the Features, and Users Say, 'Enough!'

Comments Filter:

  • What happened to "it just works"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:18AM (#54551169)

    Seems a case of "it just bloats" from now on.

    • Re:What happened to "it just works"? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TWX ( 665546 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:22AM (#54551205)

      Apple has a history of going off-the-rails when Jobs wasn't involved. Say what you want about him as a person, he was pretty good at figuring out what people wanted and giving it to them just in time for them to figure it out themselves. He also worked with something of a minimalist approach, at times to a fault, but with a great degree of success. Without that restraint this could become a problem.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by nomadic ( 141991 )

        "Apple has a history of going off-the-rails when Jobs wasn't involved"

        Apple has gone off-the-rails when Jobs WAS involved, too. See, e.g., iTunes.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by TWX ( 665546 )

          I never said he was perfect in his approach. On the other hand for a lot of Apple's products he forced developers to take a minimalist approach whose end-result was extremely easy for the end-user to use most of the time, and whose aesthetics were generally good, and at least during the era when OSX was their main focus he threw a bone to users that wanted to have more powerful tools like the commandline available to them. That balancing act is very hard to maintain, and I do not hold high hopes that any

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by spoot ( 104183 )

          "Apple has a history of going off-the-rails when Jobs wasn't involved"

          Apple has gone off-the-rails when Jobs WAS involved, too. See, e.g., iTunes.

          iTunes was just fine when it was a music app (see: Sound Jam), all the trouble came when it ended up becoming the 'windows explorer' of the Apple ecosystem. It's the rotting whale carcass of Apple bloated apps.

        • What do you mean with simply saying iTunes?
          iTunes the Application? I like it, I just don't like that they removed coverflow and that it is used for backing up iPads and iPhones.
          iTunes the Store? What is wrong with the store?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by nomadic ( 141991 )

            The application. It became a ridiculously bloated, absurdly non-intuitive piece of junk years ago, back when Jobs was running Apple.

      • Apple has a history of going off-the-rails when Jobs wasn't involved. Say what you want about him as a person, he was pretty good at figuring out what people wanted and giving it to them just in time for them to figure it out themselves. He also worked with something of a minimalist approach, at times to a fault, but with a great degree of success. Without that restraint this could become a problem.

        You mean in the great sample-size of ONE period-of-time that Jobs wasn't in charge?

        Yeah, some "history".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kuzb ( 724081 )
        Only really a problem if you continue to drink Apple's koolaid. Many of us figured out long ago that Macs simply do not fit very well if you want a cost effective, practical solution for a variety of tasks. The proponents of Apple want you to believe that the company can't do any wrong. The people who think objectively about the company and its products know they can, and have.

      • While they were some exceptions. Apple normally only added features once they get it right. Linux desktop systems are packed full of features however they are normally fully cooked, while fun to play with but often takes practice to figure out and be useful. Apple had usually made they new feature natural to use.

    • Re:What happened to "it just works"? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:28AM (#54551251) Homepage Journal

      Most of these "features" are just advertising in disguise. If you tell Siri to order you a pizza, it will go and order for a nearby top ranked pizza shop. So now we have gone from companies wanting to be on the first page of search results and paying for ad spots at the top, to only the very top result mattering at all.

      It's the same with Alexa. If you ask it to order bog roll, it will order the most popular one stocked by Amazon. Not the cheapest, not the 5 ply silk stuff, just whatever Amazon decides to send you. If you want to sell toilet paper to Alexa users, you need to kiss Amazon's arse.

      • Well, you leave yourself wide open if you make such an open-ended request. But you would think that they could fix it so it would look at what you ordered in the past instead of whatever vendor gives the largest kickback to Amazon.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Voice assistants are useless for browsing and comparing though. All they can do is read out some data on each item in turn. Can't even show you a photo of the item.

      • If you've ordered something previously, Amazon's Alexa will offer up that item, or a list of matching previously ordered items.

    • Re:What happened to "it just works"? (Score:5, Funny)

      by jimbolauski ( 882977 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:47AM (#54551333) Journal
      Apple knows what you want, you just don't know it yet. Now go enjoy your ultra slim laptop with short battery life, limited memory, and a drawer full of dongles.

      • Apple knows what you want, you just don't know it yet. Now go enjoy your ultra slim laptop with short battery life, limited memory, and a drawer full of dongles.

        As opposed to Dell's/HP's/Acer's/You-Name-It's latest ultra slim laptop, with even shorter battery life, the same limited memory, and a side-panel full of yesterday's ports, right?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kuzb ( 724081 )
        Nothing says "I made the right decision!" Like a mouthful of Apple's courage!

      • To be fair, while there may be a huge amount of criticism over Apple's successive generations of laptops, battery life is not one of them.

        Non-upgradable memory, storage, an annoying keyboard, and forcing you to buy a shitton of dongles due to a complete lack of every single most important port still in use today, on the other hand...

    • Re: What happened to "it just works"? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by PoopJuggler ( 688445 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:01AM (#54551415)
      Everything since the Apple IIe is just bloat. The question is which bloat is useful and which is not.

      • Everything since the Apple IIe is just bloat. The question is which bloat is useful and which is not.

        Hah! The //e is Bloat!

        Everything since the Apple ][ (non-Plus, non-"e") is just bloat.

        Afterall, 48 k should be enough for anybody, amirite?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kuzb ( 724081 )
        This is exactly why I hate the word "bloat". It means something different to every person who uses it. To many oldschool unix gurus any kind of GUI is bloat. To most people here, "bloat" just means "something I don't like and would remove". Rarely does it ever mean "unnecessary software that makes things slower". "Bloat" is little more than a geek buzzword to me now as a result.

    • This is Jobs reality distortion field at work. It was never more obvious how to do everything on a Mac or iOS than competitor products, it was maybe a little easier to do the stupid user stuff after a "genius" had configured it for you, but it was f**king awful to be the local "IT Guru" that had to fix everyone's Apple shit.

      Most people do what, make calls, texts, use the app store, and browse the web? Yeah, everything "just works" for that.

  • Apple's money (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:19AM (#54551181)

    In a few hours, Apple will kickstart its annual developer conference.

    I find this really surprising. I was sure Apple had plenty of capital.

    • In a few hours, Apple will kickstart its annual developer conference.

      I find this really surprising. I was sure Apple had plenty of capital.

      Yeah, but it's in Ireland.

  • Slashdot likes to rag on Apple (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wtbman ( 1996948 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:21AM (#54551201)
    Users say: Enough!

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Gravis Zero ( 934156 )

      Slashdot likes to rag on Apple

      Slashdot likes to rag on technology companies that do and make shitty things. I don't see a problem with that considering this is a site mostly about technology.

      Slashdot has only gone after Apple since Jobs kicked it. Have you considered the possibility that Apple has lost the critical component that kept them from making shitty things?

  • Yes, "enough!" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DeplorableCodeMonkey ( 4828467 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:27AM (#54551241)

    Apple needs a swift kick in the ass. They've completely lost sight of the Jobs method of empire building which starts with "build and maintain your moat." That moat is the Mac. Even if it becomes 10% of their revenue, it is one of the single most important products they have because of a few reasons:

    1. It has developers get to every iOS product line.
    2. It is the general purpose computer of influencers and decision makers.
    3. It is a hub to the iOS product lines that Apple can totally control.

    It takes no real resources for a company like Apple to regularly update the Mac lines. They can easily afford to sacrifice some potential profitability to make their pro lines robust, repairable, upgradeable, etc. I didn't mind a semi-disposable iPhone when the Macbook Pro was like it was until the post-Jobs era. Now I don't know any power users that think Apple for a $1500-$2500 laptop purchase because we all now think it's a sucker's game.

  • My main complaint with Apple's new features of the past years has been that most have limited reach.

    Things like Apple Pay are still not available in The Netherlands (where I live), years after release. Siri took years to arrive and is still far more limited than in the US. Other features are constrained to the Apple ecosystem, ignoring the fact that most users own and interact with various platforms. I've never felt a need to explore stickets in Messages, because barely anyone I know still uses Messages.

  • Developer here. I do some development on my MacBooks (newest is MacBook Pro from mid 2015). My ongoing wishlist:
    - Large screens (DPI matters less than actual real estate): 15-inches or more, and vertical space is valuable
    - At least two large/powered USB ports (today I have two large - Type A - and one powered)
    - Two HDMI ports (today I have one; I use an adapter for my second monitor)
    - Docking station (I do most of my work at one workstation where my monitors/keyboard/headphones live - today I plug/unplug

    • Re:MacBook developer wishlist (Score:4, Insightful)

      by beelsebob ( 529313 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:16AM (#54551511)

      They already have a docking station - it's called a Thunderbolt port, you just chose not to buy a dock.

      • >> docking station - it's called a Thunderbolt port

        After plugging/unplugging a thousand times (getting close I think) I worry about my little Thunderbolt port, which feels like it's getting looser. I guess I'm hoping for something more "commercial grade" (designed for 10K+ plugs/unplugs, with a physical "ker-chunk" when it's docked).

        • >> docking station - it's called a Thunderbolt port

          After plugging/unplugging a thousand times (getting close I think) I worry about my little Thunderbolt port, which feels like it's getting looser. I guess I'm hoping for something more "commercial grade" (designed for 10K+ plugs/unplugs, with a physical "ker-chunk" when it's docked).

          Thunderbolt Connectors ARE rated at 10K+ Insertions/Removals, IIRC.

      • Last time I checked, thunderbolt hubs were difficult to find on Amazon for $10 like USB ports.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Malc ( 1751 )

      I'm still using a mid-2011 17" MBP for all my work in Lightroom. Brilliant laptop, great screen, and the best form factor for a 17" laptop at the time.

      When you say "docking station", are you thinking of those god awful things that PC users put up with? I just plug in a thunderbolt connector and power lead in to my work 2015 15" MBP. The screen has a hub in it. I look forward to the upgrade to USB-C. I hope I never again have to use one of those horrible docks I had in the past with Dell laptops.

      • >> When you say "docking station", are you thinking of those god awful things that PC users put up with?

        Yes. That exactly. I currently use my MBP as one of the three monitors on my desk, and it always sits in the same place there.

        > The screen has a (Thunderbolt) hub in it.

        Just one external screen? My minimum developer environment is two large matched monitors, with the laptop open as a (small) convenience third.

      • I'm still using a mid-2011 17" MBP for all my work in Lightroom. Brilliant laptop, great screen, and the best form factor for a 17" laptop at the time.

        When you say "docking station", are you thinking of those god awful things that PC users put up with? I just plug in a thunderbolt connector and power lead in to my work 2015 15" MBP. The screen has a hub in it. I look forward to the upgrade to USB-C. I hope I never again have to use one of those horrible docks I had in the past with Dell laptops.

        No, I think he meant a TB Dock.

    • Developer here. I do some development on my MacBooks (newest is MacBook Pro from mid 2015). My ongoing wishlist:
      - Large screens (DPI matters less than actual real estate): 15-inches or more, and vertical space is valuable
      - At least two large/powered USB ports (today I have two large - Type A - and one powered)
      - Two HDMI ports (today I have one; I use an adapter for my second monitor)
      - Docking station (I do most of my work at one workstation where my monitors/keyboard/headphones live - today I plug/unplug 6 cables when I get in for the morning or back from a meeting)

      No, I don't need a headphone jack. Bluetooth/wireless is a thing these days.

      Sounds like you need a 2016 MacBook Pro with a nice TB3 Dock, like this:

      One cable. Done. Three MORE Ports left!

      https://blog.macsales.com/3856... [macsales.com]

  • Fix the hardware (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thegreatbob ( 693104 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:39AM (#54551295) Journal
    Bring the hardware up to modern specifications, then try to maintain a reasonable price, and people will be more likely flock to it. Of course, they make enough money on iPhone/iPad that they probably don't feel particularly motivated to improve the state of affairs for desktop/laptop users.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Khyber ( 864651 )

      "Bring the hardware up to modern specifications"

      That's a typical answer for those that tend to not program in the most efficient manner possible.

      How about you bring your coding standards up to something better than the modern bloat we have now?

  • Longtime Apple Support Specialist (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:39AM (#54551299)

    I've been a longtime Apple Support Specialist and I've never, ever, seen it hit such a low level of usability and simplicity. It's as if the current Apple has a UI team staffed by the people who designed Windows 3.1. Even basic applications like Messages (on the Mac) are now so difficult to use (AND buggy) that many users have simply given up.

    Apple needs to fire or re-assign every single person that worked on the UI designs post Snow Leopard and post IOS 6 and do a complete "Microsoft Windows 8 doh! moment reversal." They need to go back to where they were then, when everything worked exactly as it should and made freaking sense.

    There is nothing worse than trying to teach people how to use current Apple software: "Why is this this way?" (Because Steve Jobs died and the people now in charge at Apple are morons.) "This doesn't make any sense." (No, it doesn't, it's complete nonsense and you just have to memorize it.) It's a fracking nightmare.

    • Re:Longtime Apple Support Specialist (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Moof123 ( 1292134 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:56AM (#54551807)

      Strong agreement here.

      I have been annoyed for a while with what they have done to music on iOS since they integrated streaming. It is hard to do something as simple as switch to shuffle on a currently playing playlist for Pete's sake. Then I took my old ipod touch that is stuck at iOS 6 on a road trip. Holy cow did things "Just work". I'd forgotten just how bad iOS had gotten that I could easily do more of what I wanted on a widget I've barely used in 2 years than on the iPad I use almost daily.

      I'd rather have fewer gimmicks that worked really well than heaps of buggy features I never use.

    • Making an exception to my no AC replies rule to nominate you as the next CEO of Apple. You might turn this shit around yet!

  • Imac pro without E-net build in! do you want to add an
    $19.99 TB3 to E-net dongle?
    $39.99 TB3 to 10G-E-net dongle?
    $29.99 TB3 to SFP+ dongle?

    • Even worse, while those dongles use nowhere near the bandwidth available form the port they plug into, they don't daisy chain. It's easy to say that shouldn't be a problem because you can just plug it in at the end of the chain, but we're talking about something you'll always want plugged in, which should dictate that it's at the start of the chain. Furthermore, almost no Thunderbolt devices daisy chain properly, so you can't just stick it at the end of the chain in the first place. And I largely blame Appl
  • I think they should add a feature where people can write stories. They could call it Stories.

  • iMessage can become as advanced as it wants; the fundamental issue is that it's not a cross-platform app. Its extra features are only available on iOS devices and Macs.

    I use mostly Telegram with my friends because it runs on everything. Even though I love my iPhone I recognize that without cross-platform support, some of its features will always be limited. Apple should open up iMessage to other platforms, then we might see some greater adoption of its fancier features.

    • iMessanger never really worked for me reliable.

      Messages sent on one device, or received, would often not show up on other devices.

      So I switched it off (yes, of course I have the same iTunes/iCloud account on all devices registered), worst of all: some messages send on my iPad never reached the recipient.

  • My messages/imessage/SMS are broken. Have spent hours trying to get it to work. From some people, I only receive them on my computer, from others they arrive on my iPhone. Receiving and sending SMS from my computer haven't worked in months.
    Sigh.
    If I have to spend hours getting things to work, I might as well build my own Windows computer again.

  • One App to rule them all, One App to find them,
    One App to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

  • The one announcement I want... (Score:3)

    by wezelboy ( 521844 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:37AM (#54551685)
    The person responsible for accelerometer activation of doodles in Messenger is no longer employed at Apple.

  • ....is " ability to order food, scribble doodles and send funny images known as stickers in chats on its Messages app" a handy feature. Those of us who aren't frequently find ourselves inanely "commenting" on a text by accident. And, of course, that can't be turned off.

  • To be fair... (Score:4)

    by sootman ( 158191 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @01:16PM (#54552983) Homepage Journal

    ... I could name a dozen other companies off the top of my head who are adding more features than I want. Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Mozilla, Adobe, my cable company, my phone company... and that's just from looking at a list of what I have running right now. I could probably hit a hundred if I actually started making a list. Does anyone want to hear details of how the A/C controls in a 2016 Corolla are objectively worse than they were in a 1986 Corolla?

    Apple is probably mid-pack in terms of "shit I didn't ask for and don't want".

  • Nothing... (Score:3)

    by 101percent ( 589072 ) on Monday June 05, 2017 @03:38PM (#54554179)
    Not much innovation on the MacOS front for a WWDC. Looks like Apple really is a media company now. iOS seems to be their main software focus.

Slashdot Top Deals

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

Close