Apple Warns Of Counterfeit Power Adapters and Batteries Following Lawsuit (9to5mac.com) 101
Following a lawsuit revealed back in October in which Apple exposed an issue with a large percentage of fake Apple adapters being marketed as "genuine" online, today the company has posted an official warning to customers. From a report on 9to5Mac: The message, posted on the front page of the company's support webpage, warns customers that counterfeit power adapters and batteries could pose safety issues. The company also offers customers that might have had a recent battery replacement the option to bring in their devices to an Apple Store or authorized service provider to check if the battery is genuine.
Nonsense (Score:3, Funny)
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Just changed the original battery in my 4s 3 weeks ago with a $15 amason kit. Zero problems and 3 day charges again.
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In a past life having to fix tektronics solid ink printers. I found that when people used non OEM products after a few months there is a problem that is out of warranty because it wasn't approved consumables used.
This created a loose loose situation because we had to charge the customer for the fix and we tried to give them a discount who's was less then the vendor would pay us. So the customer felt ripped off and we didn't get the most for our services.
These devices run on tightly controlled parameters an
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Re:Nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nonsense (Score:5, Funny)
That it matters, means that they've failed (Score:2, Interesting)
If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong. Embrace, extend, extinguish - be snobby about people with old computers, etc - hint Apple, not everyone lives in San Fran and throws away their $5k laptop each year. People need cords, and they'll buy cheap. That's not their problem, it's yours.
Re: That it matters, means that they've failed (Score:5, Insightful)
Want to bet that those "counterfeit" products come from the same assembly line as the "genuine" ones?
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Since the assembly line runs 24x7, if they did come from the same line, they came from the reject bin.
It's unlikely since most of the internals of these chargers are nothing like authentic ones. At best, the cases might be been pilfered from genuine lines but not the internals.
Re: That it matters, means that they've failed (Score:4, Informative)
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That can't be right. I bought a little joystick for my ipad... and then I bought another one that was the EXACT same thing for about 1/6 the price.
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That's not counterfeit, that's grey market. The two are very different. There is most definitely a grey market out there, but they can't compete with counterfeit products. In the case of chargers they literally have 1/5th of the components in them and that's before we even start talking about quality of components, design, safety margins etc.
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What? Do you really not understand manufacturing and Apple products?
I understand that if the OP's assertion is correct and that the chargers came from the same line as Apple several things would be true: 1) the internals would be no different than genuine Apple chargers. 2) Thus they for all purposes authentic Apple chargers. 3) They could be sold as authentic Apple chargers at full price because that's what they are. Please show how they would be different.
The manufacturing costs of electronics are a small fraction of the price. For Apple products this is doubly true.
Manufacturing is a small fraction of the price of most everything. What is your point?
Do you really think it costs near $80 to make a power adapter?
Strawman argument: I never said
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Want to bet that those "counterfeit" products come from the same assembly line as the "genuine" ones?
Considering the abysmal reviews that many of Apple's chargers and port adapters get on their own web site, I would not be surprised.
Re:That it matters, means that they've failed (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a reason some of those items are pricey. A well designed power supply includes large capacitors and a good heat sink and margin of errors and safeties for out of spec components, brownouts or spikes. There is also space on the circuit boards so the line voltage of 110/220VAC doesn't become part of the rest of the circuit.
Some of these counterfeits actually run components that are underpowered (e.g. a 3A regulator will often do 5A as long as you have thermal capacity), are simply removing capacitors and fuses to save costs. Also they often put up UL certificates without owning them and have traces that are both too thin and too close so as to become a safety issue under stressed conditions.
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There is a reason some of those items are pricey. A well designed power supply includes large capacitors and a good heat sink and margin of errors and safeties for out of spec components, brownouts or spikes. There is also space on the circuit boards so the line voltage of 110/220VAC doesn't become part of the rest of the circuit.
Apple charges $80 for a charger. Even at a 200% markup, several large capacitors don't cost anywhere near $40, more like a lot less than $1. A power supply probably costs on the
Re:That it matters, means that they've failed (Score:4, Informative)
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You don't have to pay for engineering every time you build a charger, you pay for it once. The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars. Apple didn't become the richest company on the planet by selling chargers at cost.
When I mean engineering, I mean design and engineering. Apple didn't slap some wires together and sell them as chargers. There's a lot circuitry that has been engineered in each charger. Please tell me how much more in costs that Apple put into their charger over the counterfeit. I would bet you it's more than $1 that you assert. The boards alone cost more than $1 to manufacture. They are also likely machine soldered. The DAS05 chip [aliexpress.com] alone costs $1.45 each retail from what I can tell. Sure you could get th
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A 2008 Apple Power Adapter BOM (Bill of Materials) is/was less than 5 USD. And that would be for 1000 units: it's easy to imagine Apple getting a better price with millions of units built.
A 2008 Apple Power USB adapter is also not the same as a current laptop charger. For starters, the USB Power Delivery 1.0 Spec wasn't drafted/approved until 2012 which means Apple chargers were one of the few to offer faster charging. I would submit that's why the Apple charger costs more than the Samsung one as it did not offer faster charging.
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I think the following link is still relevant to the discussion: http://www.techspot.com/news/4... [techspot.com] A 2008 Apple Power Adapter BOM (Bill of Materials) is/was less than 5 USD. And that would be for 1000 units: it's easy to imagine Apple getting a better price with millions of units built. This does NOT include, labour, assembly, casing, packaging and shipping costs... Looks like a hefty profit there to be made ;-)
Well, an Apple USB wall adapter costs $19. The cheapest USB wall charger from Samsung is $29.99 [samsung.com]. Okay, unlike Apple's the Samsung one comes with a USB cable, but still, that's hardly less, now is it?
I tried to find one over at Lenovo, but it looks they don't even sell phone chargers, only upward from a USB-C charger for their ThinkPad X1 Tablet. And that cost's $41.99.
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The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars.
I can guarantee you the marginal cost of each charger is most definitely more than a few dollars. Even in order quantities of 10000 the components used in Apple's design are incredible in both quality and number.
But hey feel free to burn your house down. I'm just here to hope that someone else understands that quality actually costs money.
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But hey feel free to burn your house down. I'm just here to hope that someone else understands that quality actually costs money.
Odd... I've owned a good 30 computers over the years, none of which had power adapters that cost $80. And yet not one fire has started because of the power adapter. There's probably a billion other people that ALSO have power adapters right from mainstream manufacturers like Dell, HP, etc now plugged into a wall that cost maybe $30, and yet there's not stories about massive amo
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Odd... I've owned a good 30 computers over the years, none of which had power adapters that cost $80. And yet not one fire has started because of the power adapter. There's probably a billion other people that ALSO have power adapters right from mainstream manufacturers like Dell, HP, etc now plugged into a wall that cost maybe $30, .
Maybe, but probably not. For entertainment purposes, I went over to Dell.com, and their cheapest notebook charger is $49.99. Not $30. The same $49.99 Apple's cheapest notebook charger costs.
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You don't have to pay for engineering every time you build a charger, you pay for it once. The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars. Apple didn't become the richest company on the planet by selling chargers at cost.
Jesus fucking Christ, stop whining about EVUL APPEL and look at the fucking article already. Not only are those fake adaptors build completely different, they throw even the most basic safety standards of electrical engineering out the window and put the life of people plugging them in in danger.
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A lot more engineering goes into an Apple made one; it's not about more capacitors.
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What? Engineering is a one time cost. Also, quite frankly, it's a freaking power adapter. Sure, it has microchips in it, but so what? The micro-controllers sells for around $2 at mouser electronics. In quantity, even less. http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=682250013 I can buy a damn entire Amazon Fire Tablet for $50 (which has FAR more engineering than a fancy po
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What? Engineering is a one time cost.
When someone says a lot more engineering went into something maybe you should look at the article where it explained it all
Also, quite frankly, it's a freaking power adapter. Sure, it has microchips in it, but so what?
Which cost more money to buy. Which cost more money to implement. Which ensures your $2000 laptop won't be fried by the charger.
The micro-controllers sells for around $2 at mouser electronics.
Feel free to retrofit your charger to use them then. While you're at it please redesign your boards to accommodate. I would guarantee it takes you more than 8 hours of your time.
In quantity, even less. http://www.mouser.com/search/r... [mouser.com] I can buy a damn entire Amazon Fire Tablet for $50 (which has FAR more engineering than a fancy power supply), and Apple charges $80 for a charger? Does this make sense to you?
Then buy a Amazon Fire Tablet. If you want to gamble and get a cheap charger for yo
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Strawman argument: I never said engineering costs raise the price to $80. I said that it costs more than "several large capacitors". Please show me in your engineering principles how it costs Apple only $1 more to make their charger. I will guarantee you that one of the ICs that Apple used and the fake did not is at least $1 price difference. And Apple used multiple ICs which are not on the fake. In mere parts alone Apple's charger has more than $10 worth of parts over the fake. That does not include assembly and design costs. Please show in engineering principles how this is not true.
The site you linked to is essentially an Apple wank-off site used to justify the high costs of apple products.
Please point to one thing that the site said which was not true. The blogger broke down counterfeit and genuine chargers. He identified major components of both. He showed flaws in how the counterfeits were made. All of these were sound engineering design problems. Which of these was incorrect (from an engineering perspective.) Yet for you it was a "wank-off" site. Is that your professional engineering opinion?
The rest of the world is using power adapters that work perfectly fine, and they don't start fires, and they don't cost $80.
If you don't want to spend $80 that's on you. If you want to pay for a counterfeit charger (which was the whole point of the article) that is dangerously made, that's on you.
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If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
First of all, what the hell are you talking about when it comes to standards? Every computer company uses a different charger. I dare you to plug in an HP charger into a Dell (that's if the connector even works). Second, it doesn't matter if Apple or Dell follows a standard, the counterfeit chargers won't follow one which is the point.
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If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
First of all, what the hell are you talking about when it comes to standards? Every computer company uses a different charger. I dare you to plug in an HP charger into a Dell (that's if the connector even works). Second, it doesn't matter if Apple or Dell follows a standard, the counterfeit chargers won't follow one which is the point.
Outside of the long business of selling multi-adapters, I'll point out that a lot of new laptops are moving to USBC for charging, so the different adapter thing may soon be a thing of the past
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Except USB only allows 100W maximum power draw. There are many mobile workstations and gaming laptops that exceed this limit. I am on a laptop that uses a 200W adapter and I know a few that come with 300W.
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Except USB only allows 100W maximum power draw. There are many mobile workstations and gaming laptops that exceed this limit. I am on a laptop that uses a 200W adapter and I know a few that come with 300W.
They could use more than one USBC charger in parallel. Except for Apple, Apple only gets to have one USBC port and just to be fair, it may only be used for one thing at a time.
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Outside of the long business of selling multi-adapters, I'll point out that a lot of new laptops are moving to USBC for charging, so the different adapter thing may soon be a thing of the past
It will just mean the product is locked to the manufacturer's adapter so you need a separate charger for every device, again. USBC includes provisions for DRM to limit which charger can be used; the first USBC ASICs which were advertised to me were for USBC charger authentication from NXP.
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If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
http://www.mobilegeeks.com/samsung-fake-batteries/ [mobilegeeks.com].
The German magazine wanted to get to the bottom of this, so they decided to order 12 Samsung batteries. Four units came directly from Amazon, while the rest were ordered from other sellers. Again, all were advertised as original, from Samsung Surprise, surprise. It turns out all 12 were fakes!
fire Fire FIRE! (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?
Re:fire Fire FIRE! (Score:5, Informative)
Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?
They've fooled you with the "fulfilled by Amazon". That just means the seller shipped a pallet or whatever of stuff to Amazon's warehouse so their picker robot stuffed it in a box when you ordered it. Other than that, Amazon doesn't give a hoot what the item is. What you need to watch for is "Sold by Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon" if you want them to have any liability for the quality.
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This is what happens when you outsource manufacturing to China. Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?
Huh? Outsourcing to China is OK as long as you don't skimp on quality assurance. This is what happens when you don't kick China and others like it in the nuts for allowing product forgers to run rampant.
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You can still get fakes if the order is fulfilled by Amazon, at least for some products. Affiliates who sign up for their "Fulfilled by Amazon" program can inject fakes into process if they have the same UPC as products purchased and sold by Amazon itself because they might all be comingled in the warehouse. I read somewhere (can't find the article right now) that these third parties are supposed to slap a sticker on their product identifying who was responsible for putting the specific item into the mixe
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A 60W DC-DC converter chip alone costs ~$10 and change in volumes of 100+ without the heat sink, coils, capacitors, wiring, casing, design, marketing, sales or profit.
If your power adapter costs $20 your charger most likely is based on a reference design which is not even halfway complete.
Unfortunate (Score:3)
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Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... (Score:4, Insightful)
And it seems like the reaming is just getting worse. [9to5mac.com]
Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... (Score:4, Funny)
... My cat chewed through my power cord ... A new one is $70. ...
$70 for a new cat is WAY too much
Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... (Score:4, Funny)
Agreed. Heck, Apple gave away Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion for free. And not to be outdone, Microsoft recently was begging folks to take their mangy alleycat that kept peeking into everyone's windows.
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Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.
Maybe not for Apple, but there are for other companies. Guess what, $70 is still a pretty good ballpark for a decent charger. My Surface Pro charger was $80. When my $70 HP charger died I replaced it with the slim $90 version.
As you can see I'm not a fan of Apple, but I will defend them on the pricing of their chargers. They won't burn your house down with your cat locked inside and are priced accordingly.
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Uhm, you do realize that the Surface Pro charger is 36 watts and not 4-6 watts for a phone charger, right?
Uhm, you do realize that an Apple phone charger doesn't even remotely costs $80? Oh, wait, you obviously don't.
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No, $70 is about average for a good compact high power power supply. Just a good DC-DC converter chip costs ~$10 in large volumes, if your power supply costs less than the components it (should) be made out of, they're skimping on something and you can be sure that it won't be good for you.
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A new one is $70. That's nuts. Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.
A month ago:
Apple's getting rid of MagSafe and moving to industry standard USB-C charging? Those greedy bastards!
OK, you in particular might not have been saying it, but the Internet as a whole was. I for one am thrilled that they're moving to a charging system based on parts I can order from Monoprice.
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You misunderstand: the new MacBook Pros charge via USB-C and not the proprietary magsafe connector. If the dog eats your cord, you can buy a new standard USB-C cable without running to apple, and the chargers themselves are stardardized so you can buy a non-Apple one of those, too.
Sure, buy quality! But you're no longer constrained to getting it from a single vendor.
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Warning! (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying those counterfeit products could endanger our profit!
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Buying those counterfeit products could endanger our profit!
You do realize the only people hurt would be Apple customers right? They buy a crappy adapter; it fries their device. Will Apple replace the device? No as it would be clear that the customer used a 3rd party part.
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Why is it Apple's responsibility that a customer used a part that didn't meet specifications?
Because everything is always Apple's fault. Jesus, get with it.
iPressure (Score:2)
Apple has deep pockets. Hire top detectives, hunt them down, and sue their anterior sides off for both counterfeiting and safety issues.
If they are too small to sue, wreck the little factory at 3am and spread horse heads around as a warning. Hire locals to do the dirty work to protect the main company. "We pay you well to stop them. How you do it, we don't care and don't wanna know; just don't injure people. Understand?"
Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
Those counterfeit adapters always have cables that keep fraying [google.com].
Oh wait.... those are Apple's own expensive adapters fraying...
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Those counterfeit adapters always have cables that keep fraying [google.com].
Oh wait.... those are Apple's own expensive adapters fraying...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dell+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866 [google.com]
https://www.google.com/search?q=HP+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866 [google.com]
https://www.google.com/search?q=Android+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866 [google.com]
How to avoid fake hardware: (Score:2)
Do not buy products that make no attempt to conform to standards. This pretty much means all Apple products are out.
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Do not buy products that make no attempt to conform to standards. This pretty much means all Apple products are out.
By that logic, you should never buy a laptop from any company. Their chargers for the most part won't work on all of the company's laptops much less competitor's laptops.
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While one could use a higher wattage charger for a lower wattage one, it's not guaranteed that the amperage will be compatible. But that's Dell conforming to standards, right?
Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine (Score:4, Informative)
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It's not grounded at all so it's a major safety hazard.
That isn't necessarily the case. Well balance of probabilities this is most probably a safety hazard given some of the designs I've seen but lack of a ground pin especially on a DC-DC converter most certainly has nothing to do with safety, especially on a completely encapsulated device with an isolation transformer. Many Apple chargers are ungrounded too.
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The problem is that they are missing things like isolation transformers. They are directly ran from the net, converted to 155-325 VDC (VAC * sqrt(2)) often with a single diode instead of a bridge, the transformer you may see could be a flyback to create a chopper but the isolation circuit between the PWM and the mains is often missing (who needs a $5 opto-isolator when a $0.25 transistor will do)
I've seen circuits that are literally textbook circuits, those are barebones introductory to understand the opera
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Yes and no. Most of the knock-offs have proper isolation transformers, and why wouldn't they, they are no more expensive than any other kind. The problem as you say is textbook circuits. They don't understand the concept of loop compensation, the details of designing for more than just the name plate standard value on the device, that layout is critical, or my personal favourite a ground plane. A big one. One that connects both sides of the isolation transformer :-)
By extension there is nothing wrong with h
I made one for myself (Score:1)
I only trust MYSELF with fake power adaptors. I took the end of an old MagSafe power adapter and, using a buck converter, got it to charge MacBook Pros directly from a 100 watt solar panel :) It's been working great for a year and a half. Nice CLEAN power at just the right voltage (20V) for my Mac.
I'd be scared to see what manner of non-Apple adaptors are out there though!
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