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Apple Hardware Technology

Design For the Present (marco.org) 299

Technology critic Marco Arment, who co-hosts an Apple-centric podcast called ATP with John Siracusa and Casey Liss, has shared his take on the design of the recently launched MacBook Pro models. Apple's decision to get rid of USB Type-A ports has irked many, with some saying that the company should have left at least a few USB Type-A ports on the computer, even if what it strives to do is lead the industry in how a computer should look like. Arment shares the sentiment. From a blog post: The new MacBook Pro is probably great, and most of the initial skepticism probably won't age well. But I want to pick on one aspect today. Having four USB-C ports is awesome. Having only four USB-C ports is going to hurt the versatility requirement of pro gear, because there's a very real chance that you won't have the right dongle when you need it. This is going to happen a lot, because even though USB-C is the future, it's definitely not the present. We've had the standard USB plug (USB-A) in widespread use for 18 years, and it's going to take a few more years for USB-C to become so ubiquitous that we can get away without USB-A ports most of the time. A pro laptop released today should definitely have USB-C ports -- mostly USB-C ports, even -- but it should also have at least one USB-A port. Including a port that's still in extremely widespread use isn't an admission of failure or holding onto the past -- it's making a pragmatic tradeoff for customers' real-world needs. I worry when Apple falls on the wrong side of decisions like that, because it's putting form (and profitability) over function."Design for the future, but accommodate the reality of the present," he adds.
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Design For the Present

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  • by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:12PM (#53206271)

    I'm still angry I can't connect my dot matrix line printer using a parallel port so I can print off all the ascii art I have stored on my floppies.

    • Why not provide a slot/panel where people could add their own port configurations... 3rd party could offer a parallel port if they wanted.
      • by SQLGuru ( 980662 )

        I used to have a USB to serial adapter......I never used it, so it go freecycled off to someone else, but I've also seen them for parallel ports and 3.5" floppy drives. The U means Universal.....let's use it as such. I don't need a new proprietary port on my laptop waiting for people to build modules for my laptop's manufacturer's port.

    • by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:31PM (#53206427)

      No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

      When everything is USC-C then this whole argument about having the right dongle inverts. Right now I have storage bins filled with various saved cables converting between all different USB plugs, DVI, HDMI, VGAWall warts with all different diameter plugs, firewire, thunderbolt... I'm sure I have over 100 cables to cover all the possible ports on the vavious machines in my office.

      Standardizing on one port for the next 5 to ten years is going to be a joy. I'll gladly carry dongles for he various peripheral connectors I target if I can at least standardized one end of them to USB-C. It's the interconversions that turn a few into many by creating a product space.

      • by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:43PM (#53206535) Journal
        As TFA says, the problem is the present. Unifying USB, DisplayPort and Thunderbolt in a single (reversible, hurrah!) connector is great. I'm really looking forward to a future where basically everything uses the same connector. In 3-5 years, not having a C-type USB port will probably mean that you need dongles for all new stuff. Today, however, everything needs a dongle. Having one USB A-type port and HDMI would have dramatically reduced that need. Sure, by the time the laptop is end-of-life you won't be using them anymore, but you will for the first year or two.
        • Yup. And as we saw when Mac was the first to go from PS/2 to USB, if you don't get rid of the old stuff then everything will continue to use it - for fuckin' ever. Someone has to be "brave" enough to go first, and historically that's been Apple - PS/2, parallel, serial, CD-ROM, etc, etc.

      • I was going to mod you up for that, but:
        1. that joke's old enough to get it's learner's permit
        2. hence, you should provide a link, since some posters won't be properly imbued in troll lore
        3. CmdrTaco's loooonnng gone, so we don't get the added satisfaction kicking him again when we beat that dead horse some more.

        but hey, kudos on keeping the memory of ./'s salad days alive

      • When everything is USC-C then this whole argument about having the right dongle inverts. Right now I have storage bins filled with various saved cables converting between all different USB plugs, DVI, HDMI, VGAWall warts with all different diameter plugs, firewire, thunderbolt... I'm sure I have over 100 cables to cover all the possible ports on the vavious machines in my office.

        Standardizing on one port for the next 5 to ten years is going to be a joy.

        Except that's not how it works. By the time USB-C becomes ubiquitous, USB-D will be introduced and the whole thing starts all over again.

        • by steveha ( 103154 )

          By the time USB-C becomes ubiquitous, USB-D will be introduced and the whole thing starts all over again.

          Unlikely. Everyone's tired of the shifting standards and everyone is ready to take a break and let USB-C become ubiquitous.

          USB-C allows the full bandwidth of USB 3.1 to be used, allows enough power to run a real laptop, and has a well-designed connector (good connection, and the only USB connector that is symmetric so there is no "upside-down", it works either way). Also when USB-C becomes ubiquitous,

          • Well it looks like the USB A connector has had a good ~20 year run [wikipedia.org]. So if everyone could adopt it in fairly short order I don't see a reason that USB C couldn't have another good run.
            • by steveha ( 103154 )

              Well it looks like the USB A connector has had a good ~20 year run.

              That's a good point. And I'd much rather see USB-C emerge as the ubiquitous one than the special blue USB-A [wikipedia.org] with the extra pins (paired with the special blue USB-B [wikipedia.org] with extra pins, giant and ugly), or the weird Micro-USB connector [wikipedia.org] that is extra wide.

              The rule should be "if you see USB-A, assume USB 2.x or older; if you see USB-C, you can assume you get USB 3.x speeds."

      • No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

        When everything is USC-C then this whole argument about having the right dongle inverts.

        I agree. But I bet when that will happen 90% of those buying a Macbook Pro today will have bought a new laptop.

        Standardizing on one port for the next 5 to ten years is going to be a joy.

        Agreed. That's why Apple is wrong with proprietary ports such as Lightning and Dock. They should have used USB-C and micro-USB instead, like everyone else.

        • Agreed. That's why Apple is wrong with proprietary ports such as Lightning and Dock. They should have used USB-C and micro-USB instead, like everyone else.

          Yup. And if USB-C had been out when they came out with Lightning they would probably have gone with it. But it wasn't - and it not unreasonable to provide a few years of value for any given port you use.

          • They could have waited just one more year with Dock (that they should never have used to begin with) and switch directly to USB-C.
            Anyways, if they are going to switch the iPhone to USB-C, the sooner the less painful. Switching to USB-C after 5 iPhone iterations doesn't make any more sense than switching after just 1 on lightning. The other option is to stick to lightning until USB-D or whatever comes out in 20 years. I prefer they switch now.
            As a reasonable consumer, when you buy a phone with a proprietary

    • Sure you can! They make USB adapters. Problem is... they're USB-A adapters. Still need an adapter for the adapter to work on the "Pro" laptop.

  • by MadCow42 ( 243108 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:22PM (#53206353) Homepage

    Apple has always taken the role of change agent. If you don't forcefully abandon the past, it drags on. You end up supporting legacy requirements forever.

    They've always taken that approach (remember abandoning floppies on the iMac, and what a hoo-ha there was over that?). It's painful at the start, but it acts as an impetuous for change in the market. A year from now you'll see PC's with only USB-C ports, and you'll see a proliferation of USB-C devices... starting with USB-C to USB-A converters.

    It's painful, but it drives progress. Apple is "brave" enough to take the risk of impact to their bottom line to lead that change.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        I doubt anyone would call the pre-iMac Apple of the 90s a "change agent". They had standardized their design and were letting people make Mac Clones and supporting Apple IIe Compatibility Cards for people to run their legacy software...
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I was not aware of the Apple IIe cards but always got a kick out of the DOS Cards [engadget.com] I always wanted to take one of my buddies macs that had one (I think it was a 100MHz one) and see if I could have a machine the used both the PowerPC processor and the x86 one on the card.
    • by Snufu ( 1049644 )

      It takes courage to act impetuous for change

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Apple has always taken the role of change agent. If you don't forcefully abandon the past, it drags on.

      That's why Firewire is the de facto standard for so many peripherals now.

    • And if I buy a brand new iphone, the sync cable has USB-A. Cowards.
      • And if I buy a brand new iphone, the sync cable has USB-A. Cowards.

        They are selling a lot more iPhones than new MacBook Pros.

        • I meant to type "And yet if I buy...".

          The point is that Apple's argument for going all USB-C on the MBP is that USB-C is the future, and the fact that USB-A is ubiquitous today is not a valid excuse. The MBP team is expecting the entire rest of the world to abandon USB-A and switch to USB-C right now.

          But this is undercut by the iPhone team. If Apple truly believed that USB-C was the way to go then the iPhone would have an USB-C connector. It doesn't, because the iPhone team is recognizing that it is pre

    • The change from floppy to everything else would have happened with or without the iMac. The technology was there and was being adopted fast. CDs, USB thumb drives, network... Not having a floppy drive on the first iMac was dumb. Floppy was still useful back then. My college bought a whole lab full of iMacs. They also bought a USB-floppy drive for every single iMac. It completely defeated the purpose of having a clean computer and also added to the cost (probably by a factor of 3-5x over an internal floppy d

    • No.

      When USB was first introduced and Apple put it into the iMac, did they ship a mini-DIN keyboard with it and expect you to buy a dongle? No. It shipped with peripherals that worked out of the box.

      What Apple is doing now is shipping a device with no native port compatibility with the rest of their product line, and then demanding that people buy dongles that Apple expects to become obsolete after the transition phase from USB-A to USB-C.

      As for supporting legacy requirements forever, consider that USB-A i

      • What Apple is doing now is shipping a device with no native port compatibility with the rest of their product line, and then demanding that people buy dongles that Apple expects to become obsolete after the transition phase from USB-A to USB-C.

        Eh, they're shipping a laptop. And they're including a USB-C power supply. A laptop, which in many cases even in professional environments literally never has anything other than that power supply plugged into it.

        the market will decide on its own, just as it did when USB-A first came out and a rapid-growing ecosystem of peripherals supported it based on its merits over the old serial port technology

        The same market that kept making PS/2 keyboards and mice long after USB came out, until Apple dropped the ports? That market?

        Its not the end of the world, and let's stop pretending that it is, mmmkay?

    • Also the USB people miss here was introduced with the iMac in which it replaced all the legacy Apple connectors. Without that USB would have never caught. Sometimes you need to drag things into the future kicking and screaming or they will never move.

  • by Blackeylol ( 4762899 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:22PM (#53206355)
    I keep reading everywhere about how many dongles and accessories you're going to need and not have when in reality it is only one. One single USB-A hub with a USB-C connector. They're cheap, come in pretty small and low profiles, and can come with various additions such as gigabit ethernet, audio, and USB-C charging (as in you can plug your charger into the hub and the hub into the macbook for the ports + charging at the same time) built right in. So why is every article I read exaggerating this so much? What am I missing?
  • 2 or 4 ports with one being needed for power is to low. At least have a power in port. and maybe at least 1 USB-A port.

  • Just wait for desktops to drop e-net and only have 4 usb-c ports. So after 2 $30 USB-C to A dongles and $30 USB-C to E-net one you only have one left that you need to use for power.

  • I believe the reason Apple included only USB-C ports vs a mix of USB-C/A was out of a design aesthetic consistency. The only time they violate this is when it's the path of least resistance, like how not all of the ports on the newest MacBook Pro are full speed; Apple had to release a separate tech document to describe which ports aren't performance crippled. In other words, Apple likes to design things that they think are beautiful but are very lazy and cheap when it comes to engineering.
  • For everyone in froth mode, google the following: SCSI, USB, Optical Drive, BlueTooth Keyboard, Firewire, Ethernet, Mouse, Graphical Interface, etc. etc. From the arguments that function keys are better for word processing because a mouse take a hand off the keyboard, to where's the PS/2 port since no one sells USB keyboards, Apple has ALWAYS been the first (big player) to adopt new technology. And people ALWAYS spend a year complaining, until Dell etc. follow suit and becomes common place.

    So rage away, b

    • And that's because that transition year (or most likely 2-5 years these days) IS painful. When Dell and all other switches it's because the timing is good, not because Apple was somewhat right. If I buy a PC next year I can already tell you it will have at least one USB-A ports. And even if in 5 years every single gadget, device, TV switched to USB-C (which I doubt), I will still say that Apple was wrong in 2016 not to include any other port because USB-A is still useful today.

      Also Apple isn't always the fi

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 03, 2016 @12:54PM (#53206619)

    Anyone with a clue knows they removed the headphone jack because PoS services such as Square Reader were in direct competition with Apple Pay and Square relied heavily on the jack. Courage is nothing but marketing bullshit.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Actually, the Square Reader is now a contactless stand-alone. The headphone jack dongle is obsolete.
      If you are not using the new device, you can only process swipe cards.
      So,actually, anyone with a clue doesn't agree with you.

    • Lol. They removed it for a reason, but Square didn't compete with and doesn't now compete with Apple's payment systems.

      I would look more in the direction of Beats. A shit set of headphones which none the less come in a lot of bluetooth variants.

  • by zuki ( 845560 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @01:01PM (#53206691) Journal
    Many of us in the media world were die-hard supporters of Apple through their leanest years, and didn't mind paying full-price for their expensive machines because these were necessary tools for the digital creative arts (music, photo retouching, artwork, and so on). These people haven't disappeared today, it may be small but it arguably also is a very stable market.

    Obviously, times have changed and their allegiances lie with the mainstream consumer market. And given the obligations of good-old "fiduciary duty to stockholders", all professional users as a group are being thanked for their undying support by been dumped unceremoniously as un-necessary baggage they probably don't even want to remember anything about.

    Now please do not confuse this post for yet another garden-variety rant about how "they've abandoned us". Rather, it should be obvious that there well may be a splendid opportunity here for smaller, more nimble hardware manufacturers to address this situation and take advantage of this void Apple has left behind by making a whole line of professional desktop and laptop systems squarely aimed at this market, with the possibility of their components being so well matched and compatible to Cupertino requirements that these machines could easily run under OS-X as Hackintosh rather than merely the plain vanilla Windows OS they would ship with. Legally speaking, there is nothing that can be done against building PCs that use similar enough compatible components, even if they're one generation behind it probably would still be good enough to satisfy most everyone. Let Apple have all of the fancy gadgets like touch-bar, which obviously isn't the sort of thing pro users need yet. (It may be once software out there can take advantage of these features, but that's years down the road)

    There probably is a reasonably massive market out there for people willing to pay for Pro hardware that would be exactly compatible with Apple software, even if installing it is something they have to do themselves because the legality of it might otherwise be a bit fuzzy; and obviously Apple couldn't be arsed to license their OS to someone willing to do what they can't fathom doing themselves.

    There's gotta be a way for someone out there to manufacture and sell the products Apple refuses to make and meet this demand ...food for thought.
  • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @01:01PM (#53206693) Homepage Journal

    Apple has always been slightly ahead of the game, in part because their products sometimes have a long life between refreshes. The assumption is normally that the old ports will go away quickly.

    Unfortunately, USB is a little different, mainly because of the prevalence of thumb drives, for which an adapter is somewhat impractical because it is as big as the device you're plugging in, because people carry them in their pockets, because recent thumb drives last for years before you replace them, and because you don't always plug them into your computer (which greatly raises the risk of the thumb drive's owner not owning an adapter, much less having it with him/her).

    The new MacBook Pro added some very consumer-centric features while removing lots of pro-centric features under the theory that wireless will somehow replace those features. I don't think Apple has really taken the time to understand just how slow wireless is in practice. In the absence of an 802.11ac infrastructure base station, the maximum speed two devices can communicate with each other is 802.11g speeds, or about 54 Mb/s. A 5D Mark IV RAW file can be ~60 MB. So it takes ~9 seconds to transfer a single photo. UHS-I can potentially read at ~100 megabytes per second, so it takes 0.6 seconds to transfer a photo. Transferring a batch of photos (say 500 photos for a day of light shooting) takes an hour and 15 minutes over Wi-Fi (long enough to run your camera battery down completely). Transferring the same photos via SD takes five minutes and doesn't run down your battery at all. And it is much easier to shove an SD card into the side of your machine than to keep your camera tethered by USB and using it to transfer photos and takes up less space in your bag than a separate flash card reader or a USB cable.

    And then there's HDMI. Apple has always removed ports designed for computer video when newer ports come out, under the assumption that old monitors will get replaced with newer monitors with the new ports. The problem comes when TV is factored in. HDMI is a shared standard used by television sets, Blu-Ray players, etc. None of that gear will benefit from newer standards, and worse, has a much longer service life (decades) than computer monitors. Hotel room TVs will likely have HDMI ports in twenty years. So basically by removing the port, Apple is saying that they don't think most users need to connect their computer to anything except in their homes. Worse, most users who are impacted by this won't even know that they're going to be impacted. If connecting their computer to a TV is something you do every day, you'll have the adapter. Most people who are affected, however, are folks who suddenly decide to stay in the hotel and watch something on Netflix. Those folks won't even own the adapter, much less have it with them. And when they realize that they have to drive three hours to an Apple store to get a special adapter, it will sour their perception of Apple's product line.

    These sorts of decisions aren't the sorts of bad decisions that kill a product line in the short term. They don't impact product sales for that model. They're the sorts of bad decisions that insidiously diminish users' expectations, leading them to question future product purchases. Unfortunately, the MBAs won't be able to connect cause and effect, which means they'll keep making the same sorts of mistakes.

  • ...buy a USB-A to USB-C adapter. They're almost free.

    It's not as if this has never occurred before......VGA to DVI (video), PS2 to USB (mouse and Keyboard), ISA to EISA, etc..

    What a stupid premise.
  • From everything I've read about USB C, I really like it, except for its lack of widespread adoption. I'm actually happy that Apple is leading the way in this upgrade, and expect it will be a big benefit to me.

    Of course, if I intended to buy any Apple products, I'd be pissed.

  • And I had been thinking that I should've waited for the new version. Now, I'm sad to say - I would not own this new version. Cannot stand that OLED bar, and no USB-A ,HDMI, or MagSafe ports make it a pain in the ass to use for work.

    Apple, you are better that this effort.
  • Yes, I agree that hardware improves over time, but some specialized applications depend on the old hardware

    Lots of old stuff depends on a hardware parallel port..NOT an emulated USB to parallel printer adapter

    Even more stuff, mostly industrial, requires a serial port, and sometimes the USB to serial adapters don't quite work

    The mass consumer market is not the entire computing market

  • Support legacy USB-A connections? Sure. Just get a pair of compact adapters here [amazon.com] or here [amazon.com] for under $10.

    And the MacBooks ports aren't just USB-C they are Thunderbolt-3 / USB-C.
  • by shadowrat ( 1069614 ) on Thursday November 03, 2016 @05:49PM (#53208961)
    it could have been all lightning ports.

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