Phil Schiller Says the MacBook Pro Doesn't Need an SD Card Slot (theverge.com) 675
Apple's new MacBook Pro models have upset many people for many different reasons. Some are unhappy with the inability to get more than 16GB of RAM, some are upset with the high-price, some are unhappy about the missing physical Escape and function keys, and many are unhappy because Apple didn't put an SD card slot in the MacBook Pro. But Apple has an explanation. From a report on The Verge: Speaking to The Independent (paywalled), Apple exec Phil Schiller said the company had dropped the SD card slot as it was "cumbersome" and because wireless transfer technology for cameras is "proving very useful" as an alternative. Schiller said, "Because of a couple of things. One, it's a bit of a cumbersome slot. You've got this thing sticking halfway out. Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers, and then you can use CompactFlash as well as SD. So we could never really resolve this -- we picked SD because more consumer cameras have SD but you can only pick one. So, that was a bit of a trade-off. And then more and more cameras are starting to build wireless transfer into the camera. That's proving very useful. So we think there's a path forward where you can use a physical adaptor if you want, or do wireless transfer."
Phill Schill (Score:5, Funny)
Just take the er off his last name and you've pretty much summed the prick up perfectly.
Re:Phill Schill (Score:5, Funny)
Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers,
Um, wouldn't you need a USB connector for that?
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Pretty soon that's going to start looking like a TI/99.
Re:Phill Schill (Score:5, Informative)
If you buy an SD to USB-A adapter (aka, an SD card reader), then you can plug it into every computer, and your car. This is the normal state of things.
If you buy an SD to USB-C adapter, then you can plug it into anything with a USB-C slot, which is very few things at this time.
If you buy the first one, you'll need an adapter to use it on your Very Few Things.
If you buy the second one, you'll need an adapter to use it on your Very Many Things.
So, which is the correct call? For most people, the first option.
Re:Phill Schill (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Phill Schill (Score:3, Insightful)
On my 7 year old macbook pro, I think I used the SD card slot maybe 2 or 3 times total. Same goes for the ethernet jack. If your'e going to use it so infrequently, doesn't seem like a disaster to expect an adapter.
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Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Informative)
A simple google would show you there are plenty of them.
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A simple google would show you there are plenty of them.
Possibly but the primary use of USB sticks is for sharing files between machines so until the vast majority of laptops in use have USB-C and the vast majority of memory stick use it too it is really important to have at least one USB-A port. A single USB-A port would have been vastly more useful than a fourth USB-C.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:4, Insightful)
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Yes. Support your local economy.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Insightful)
You still need a goddamned adapter. Buy a USB-A drive, it works on every machine. Buy a USB-C drive, it works on.. like this one Apple thing?
Yes, eventually that will change. But at the end of the day, we are entering a world of dongles, because the U in USB is gone. It's just "dumb stupid computer plug that doesn't work".
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https://www.aliexpress.com/who... [aliexpress.com]
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Interesting)
On MY 7 year old MBP, I don't use the SD slot (well, it doesn't have one), but it's currently plugged into the Ethernet port. And is so on a daily basis.
It's also hooked up to a MagSafe connector which has gone MIA in the new incarnation of the MBP, I use the USB - A ports with dozens of peripherals during the week without a dongle.
As has been aptly mentioned in a number of venues, these new machines are Mac Book Airs, not Mac Book Pros.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's more aptly called the Mac Book Err
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My 2011 MBP, is really more or less, my desktop I used for artsy stuff (photoshop, video, etc).
99% of the time, it sits on a vertical stand, hooked to a USB hub, and hardwired ethernet for good high speed networking (internet, NAS storeage/backups).
Until these articles, I didn't even realize my
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Phill Schill (Score:4, Insightful)
And this is why I haven't bought a MBP since 2011. And the way things are going, it may well be my last Apple product. I use ethernet *constantly*. Sometimes I need to set up ad-hoc ethernet connections in order to test networking equipment.
Hell, in high population urban centers, Wifi almost isn't even an option because the frequencies are so heavily saturated.
Omitting things like ethernet, USB pre-C ports, and the SD card slots is not even the slightest bit justifiable. It's flat out stingy. Hell, if they're so dead set on making the laptop as thin as possible, then maybe you have to lose the ethernet cause it is admittedly big. But there's *still* no justification for omitting USB and SD ports.
If you want a super-lightweight laptop, then get an Air. That's the point of an Air. You sacrifice options for portability. The point of the Pro was to be... well... a PRO laptop, for people who do complex, high-end work. Apparently they don't care about our demographic anymore.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Informative)
On my 7 year old macbook pro, I think I used the SD card slot maybe 2 or 3 times total. Same goes for the ethernet jack. If your'e going to use it so infrequently, doesn't seem like a disaster to expect an adapter.
Perhaps, but his arguments are asinine regardless. Card half sticking out? Hmmm i seem to have several cameras where the SD Card slot is spring loaded and has absolutely nothing sticking out of it. Wireless is satisfactory? Sure - lets just sit there for hours while I transfer 30GB of pictures from my last vacation. Sounds like a great time for everyone.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Insightful)
This guy is an obvious s(c)hill. I haven't seen many SDcard slots on laptop computers that stick out when there's no card in it. On my Dells, they usually have a little plastic insert to keep dirt out, the slot is spring-loaded, and that plastic insert sits completely flush. Only if you have an actual SDcard in there does something stick out, but that's not a problem because normally you don't leave the cards in there very long, only for when you need to transfer stuff, then you put them back in the camera or whatever.
And yeah, expecting people to just use wireless transfer is indeed idiotic, especially given the gargantuan image sizes that modern mega-megapixel cameras create.
Now, using a USB card reader could be a workaround. I have one of those lying around in case I ever need to read a CF card again (not likely), or my SD slot were to fail, or if I needed to read a Sony MemoryStick (not likely at all). But wait! There's no USB-A slot on this shitty new MacBook! So I'd have to go buy some kind of hub or adapter, or buy an all-new USB-C card reader.
This new MacBook is just a giant failure in every way. It'll be interesting to see how the sales for it fare; will the Apple faithful buy it anyway and delude themselves into thinking it's wonderful even though it's a big step down? I wouldn't be surprised.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Interesting)
It'll be interesting to see how the sales for it fare; will the Apple faithful buy it anyway and delude themselves into thinking it's wonderful even though it's a big step down?
If it were just this then I'd say no but as an Apple user for the past decade this was the last straw. I've been waiting over a year now for a new Mac Pro with nothing and when I was thinking of switching to the Mac Mini to get by they took out two of the cores so it is now a desktop with less power than even their low end laptops. With this latest change they are killing off the laptops as well: no ports, crap GPU, old CPU and insane pricing. I'm now going to move back to PCs with Linux+Windows. Windows has a new Linux subsystem which will hopefully make it bearable and the new hardware from Microsoft, Surface book and Surface studio, looks far more like it came from Apple while the new Macbooks with their fondle bar are far more reminiscent of the old-style MS 'innovations': a stupid gimmick with no real use.
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Phill Schill (Score:5, Funny)
Like Jobs himself, Apple products will get thinner and thinner until they die.
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Hope you didn't use USB or hdmi either because they got rid of all those as well.
Apple's mantra seems to involve carrying around a bag full of extra dongles.
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AFAIK, other than GoPro and cell phones, no cameras use micro-SD. Its a terrible, fragile form factor that is used only in tiny devices that don't have space for a real SD card slot.
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I've snapped a genuine SanDisk uSD card clean in half despite treating it with at least some respect. It definitely happens. Many uSD slots suck bad fucking eggs... sadly, including the one on the MiniPX4 flight controller. Whoever thought it was a good idea to boot the PX4 from a uSD card was a dillhole. uSD cards are for logging, or storing images or video... not for your OS
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Lots of people are using uSD in raspberry pi's without an issue for their OS.
uSD has garbage random read performance, which I never would have expected, and even worse random write performance. There are some exceptions, which are up to only "bad" instead of "trash" — Samsung Evo+ of 16GB or larger was the best price/performance example that I could come up with when I was researching this last time — looking for a uSD card for the Pine A64+. I got a 32GB off Amazon for not much, and registered it as soon as I got it :)
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Okay, I have to ask.... HOW did you manage to do that? I use SD cards all the time, and I have never once managed to do that.
I was as surprised as you are now. It took shockingly little force. I was just trying to put it into a slot and my finger slipped a bit, but I really wasn't mashing anything.
I have only done it once. Perhaps it was pre-stressed. Nonetheless, it can happen. I do honestly find that there is a greater danger of sneezing and losing it in the carpet.
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SD card MB blanking plates exist where you can throw a microSD card in there for secondary storage, which is quite useful since you can get 256GB and 512GB cards in there to back up or use on machines that were speced with smaller storage or when you run out of space. What can you do to internalize secondary storage now? Nothing.
I'm pretty sure you just nailed the real reason they removed the slot.
Re:Another Macverstisement! (Score:5, Funny)
Don't worry, "macs4all" will be here filling the comment section with rebuttals to everyone's anti-Apple comments and telling us how Apple can do no wrong.
Why not remove the screen too (Score:5, Insightful)
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It worked for restaurants for a while, so why not try it with electronics?
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This MBP has hardware that isn't available yet, so it's not exactly "a generation or two behind".
Seriously, its i7 chip is the most powerful quad core chip Intel offers right now (the 7th gen quad isn't out yet, only the dual), and its video chip is AMD's newest offering (Radeon Pro 450), which isn't available to anybody else yet. Granted, it's not as fast as the latest Nvidia chips, but it's also far less power hungry. Power per watt is very high on the new Radeons.
I hate Apple as much as the next guy, but
They want to sell over priced Accessories (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.apple.com/shop/prod... [apple.com]
$49.95
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But has free shipping! Every cloud has a silver lining.
Re:They want to sell over priced Accessories (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/... [newegg.com]
starting at about $10 with shipping and they do more then what the apple ones do.
Complainers gonna complain (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is a thought to all you people complaining about Apple's decision making on their products ... DON'T BUY IT.
The only way to get Apple to listen, is to vote with your dollars. If you buy their products, you prove them right.
Re:Complainers gonna complain (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not so polar. What if you have used macs for 5-10 years, bought lots of software or just personal investment, and if they don't voice their opinions, apple won't change (if they do). You're what's wrong w/ america. "If you don't like it, move!"
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It is binary. You have a binary choice. Complaining isn't changing the choice or the outcome of your decision.
I am sure that there were people in the meetings that made the case for the missing items. So it isn't like they don't know people want these things. It is more that people won't care enough to change enough to go elsewhere. They will learn to live without the missing things.
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I'm just waiting for them to remove the phone!
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The only way to get Apple to listen, is to vote with your dollars.
Looks like people have [macrumors.com], and they're happy!
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DON'T BUY IT.
Thanks for your wise words. They do come as little consolation to those people who have invested heavily in an ecosystem which now offers them no upgrade path.
Fuck You, that's why. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be honest. The last few changes from the Apple design team have afforded little or no explanation behind them, and they certainly were not done based on consumer input.
Provide all the weak-ass explanations you want Phil. We know the real answer is Fuck You, that's why.
The disgusting nature behind this behavior from vendors is the Fuck You mentality is becoming rather addictive.
Consumers, if you want design change that even hints towards what you may want or need, vote with your wallet, because all other channels have been effectively silenced.
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There is a simple explanation that Schiller would probably not want to offer. Removing the SD hardware saves Apple a nickle (or whatever) while still allowing them to charge even more for the newer, less expansively capable, systems.
Re:Fuck You, that's why. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the better answer is that they weren't willing to update the SD card reader to something modern. Newer UHS-II SD card readers are much faster than the ancient UHS-I reader that they included, and somebody probably calculated that upgrading to UHS-II would require replacing their USB-2 hub with a USB-3 hub in addition to upgrading the SD card reader, and they decided that it wasn't worth it.
As someone who uses the SD card slot on a regular basis, I disagree with them, and this is definitely making me question Apple's commitment to photography professionals, particularly given what they did to Aperture.
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Never underestimate the power of convenience. The slot in your laptop is there as long as you have your laptop with you. An external reader is something you have to dig out of your bag. I'm typically doing other things while Lightroom imports photo
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I think the idea is that, if you need desktop functionality, you'll just plug in a USB-C enabled display in to the side of your laptop, which will provide both power to the laptop and also feature as a hub.
The Pixel came with two USB-C ports and really that was enough, back when displays weren't also USB hubs and power supplies. Now displays do a lot of things, and looking back, it will be odd to have so many ports on a laptop. Most people just use their phones as cameras these days; I know my halo
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And as long as they find people who buy it regardless, they will continue doing it. Maybe their target audience really doesn't want one, or at the very least doesn't care about having one, so it's sensible not to include one. I, for one, wouldn't need one. But then again, I need something more useful than a MacBook in general, so I'm not the target audience either.
But there seems to be some kind of customer that obviously doesn't care about SD-Cards slots. Or at least Apple hopes there is.
So Much for the Pro or Prosumer Market (Score:2)
Professional cameras are expensive. Even amateur photographers will have many thousands, even tens of thousands tied up in their equipment. These people are not going to buy one of your new "pro" laptops Apple, because you've taken away the ability to either plug the (camera end) proprietary USB cable into it or the the SD card. Your solution, which is to hope that we all upgrade our camera bodies to something more convenient to you, or buy a dongle from you so we can use our cables is not going to cut i
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Professional cameras are expensive. Even amateur photographers will have many thousands, even tens of thousands tied up in their equipment. These people are not going to buy one of your new "pro" laptops Apple, because you've taken away the ability to either plug the (camera end) proprietary USB cable into it or the the SD card. Your solution, which is to hope that we all upgrade our camera bodies to something more convenient to you, or buy a dongle from you so we can use our cables is not going to cut it.
The counter argument to this is that people who already have thousands invested in their expensive equipment won't mind spending a few more dollars for the adapters if they want to stay in the apple ecosystem. Because you can charge people who are already spending a lot of money to spend a little more. Apple knows its target audience REALLY well. The solution to buy a dongle is definitely going to cut it for a lot of the people.
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The counter argument to this is that people who already have thousands invested in their expensive equipment won't mind spending a few more dollars for the adapters if they want to stay in the apple ecosystem.
All their expensive equipment will work just fine with a PC, which won't force them to use a dongle just to read an SD card. That's just more shit to carry and potentially lose, and they already have stacks of that. Since Adobe software is now subscription-only, there's nothing keeping most of them from switching. They don't have software licenses they have to leave behind.
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Who are you talking to? Do you really think Apple designers are reading Slashdot to see what old angry nerds are thinking?
Professional photographers who already have computer setups and a lot of money sunk into software are not going to switch systems because they have to buy a mildly inconvenient dongle that you can get at the local drugstore for $5. They likely are already dealing with such a dongle for their CF cards. Getting rid of the SD card is mildly annoying, I guess. Don't overstate your case.
That doesn't matter to pro camera users (Score:3)
Professional cameras are expensive.
Yes they are, and as a result...
These people are not going to buy one of your new "pro" laptops Apple, because you've taken away the ability to either plug the (camera end) proprietary USB cable into it or the the SD card. ...as a result this is not what most professional camera users do. That's because they are using cameras with multiple SD slots, and capture a lot of data - so they don't use a slower internal SD reader that limits them to one card at a time when they
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Which high end cameras are using proprietary USB cables? I know all my Canon's use standard USB connectors, so I can just swap out the cable. And honestly, I've always carried a card reader with me because there was never a CF slot in a macbook :)
But you're totally right, with these updates Apple seem very confused as to who their customer is. They keep saying pro, but as a pro (be it photographer, or developer, or whatever) I need compatibility and flexibility. Only having one type of port (and a fairly ra
Only Choose One Format? (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't this more up to the customers to decide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Bag of Dongles (Score:5, Informative)
Can you smell that? (Score:4, Funny)
That's the smell of iRome burning.
how about removing the mac os hardware lock in? (Score:2)
how about removing the mac os hardware lock in?
or do you want to remove the part of being able to run non store apps? Fine do that and steam will removed from apple systems.
Well, fuck you too (Score:2)
Reality Distortion Field in full effect, but you're no Steve Jobs, fool.
Apple changes name (Score:2)
They're sprain (Score:2)
First off, the professional grade photo cameras which use Compact Flash/CFast or QXD aren't going to be a huge portion of the market. In fact, I doubt that that most people know of their existence. Journalists often send the Jpegs from their cameras to their phones (using WI-Fi adaptors in their camera SD slots) so it's not like Apple's doing them any favours.
SD is fine and great for large transfers so you don't have to congest your WiFi. This explanation that there are a lot of options 'creating confusion'
He is right (Score:2)
I do a lot of photography, my current cameras are mostly not wireless and do use SD cards.
But I hardly ever used the internal SD reader on my laptop, because (a) it is slower than a really good SD reader, and (b) there's only one slot.
Not to mention (c), a camera I sometimes use uses CF cards...
People who still need to read cards are fine using external readers because they are faster and can handle more cards. Almost all consumers have devices (really phones) that are transmitting photos over the network
Dear Apple.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a guy that is full in the Apple ecosystem and I make money programming for apple devices. But the latest macbook pros are NOT pro.
Wireless from the camera? Is this guy that much of a dipshit? Go ahead and see how fast you can transfer these 36 Megapixel RAW images from my D810 camera. Yes I use the XDHC slot and I dont want to wait a week for these to transfer over wifi. slapping the card in the macbook was super fast and worked great.
Macbook pros are not for pros anymore. It sounds like they really want to eliminate any professional use of their products by removing features that pro photographers use heavily.
It is pretty sad when the last version of the product is significantly better than the latest version.
Re:Dear Apple.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Schiller's subtext is this: "We believe the vast, vast majority of people taking photos are doing so with their iPhones. We want to encourage that behavior and make any other camera obsolete."
Apple doesn't want to make it easier for people like you or me who use professional-grade imaging equipment. They arrogantly believe that the only thing that people need to take good photos is the iPhone 7+ with their fake bokeh.
And before the Apple fans accuse me of being a troll, let me state for the record that I have exclusively owned Apple hardware since at least 2004. The only phones I've bought since 2007 were iPhones; I owned the original iPhone. I've watched as Android went from a joke to a serious competitor, to beating iOS hands-down in features, yet I've remained loyal. But these statements coming out from Cupertino are unacceptable to me. I count myself among their most loyal consumers, but I will not be purchasing this Macbook Pro, despite having more than enough money to spend on the highest-end model and all their ridiculous dongles they expect me to buy with it. For me, this was never about money. This is about not taking a huge step backward in function. Yes, I am voting with my wallet.
I sincerely hope that Apple's management listens, because the direction of their "innovation" is antithetical to everything that Steve stood for. Steve believed in the importance of design, but design as a means to an end, which was to facilitate rather than hinder the user experience. Jony Ive's design philosophy is to make devices as pretty and thin as possible, screw function. Without Steve to put a reality check on that, this Macbook "Pro" is the all-too-predictable result.
Re:Dear Apple.... (Score:5, Informative)
The only workarounds Apple leaves are:
As for the card sticking halfway out, that's only true for lame laptop vendors who tried to save a few cents for a spring-loaded eject mechanism. Those leave the card sticking halfway so you can pull it out with your fingers (and to save a negligible amount of space inside the chassis). The better laptops have SD readers where the card goes fully inside when inserted. The only reasonable rationale I can think of for eliminating the SD card slot is to make your device waterproof. I suspect what's really going on is that Apple gave the SD Association an ultimatum while negotiating licensing fees, and when the didn't blink Apple had to remove the card slot to save face.
Slabs of metal and glass (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems that Apple wishes, in the end, to sell people what will ultimately amount to slabs of metal and glass. I can see them removing just about every port from their hardware that they can. The Macs will eventually ship with only 1 USB port, with Apple telling customers to just get adapters, etc. Why, because fuck you we're in the dongle and add-on business now, that's why. Oh, and don't go buying that cheap shit off Amazon, because it will only break your machine, conveniently.
The iPhone? Oh, I'm callin
Sticking out? (Score:2)
My Dell laptop accepts an SD card and it fits almost completely flush, maybe 1-2mm at most sticking out. I even keep a 256GB SD card for temporary storage in it without worrying it will catch on my case.
Well, he's right to a degree (Score:3)
There are two major SD card form factors, three if you include compact flash. There are two major USB connectors for computers (USB and USB-C, not including two the two micro-usb form factors or the large square 'device' connectors). There are *five* video form factors, four of which are still current (DVI, HDMI, DP, Mini-DP).
So he has a point. However, the new macbook-pro goes too far in removing ports. Standard USB ports are still *extremely* useful and for a laptop having a bunch of them is also extremely useful. They removed the separate power port, which basically means there is only one USB-C port available for peripherals.
To say it is stupid is not being critical enough.
-Matt
If 'need' is criteria by which Mac users evalute (Score:2)
I've purchased Apple laptops for 12 years (Score:3)
Okay, technically my employer purchased the one I'm typing this on now - a 2015 MacBook Pro, which was purchased this past spring specifically because of the (accurate) rumors stating the next version would be losing most of the ports and slots.
I really like this thing. I use the SD slot once or twice a month. I use the Thunderbolt/Displayport ports and the HDMI ports to drive external monitors. I like the MagSafe connector. This machine is well built, and plenty fast. Plus all my Unix stuff runs on it too.
Why am I bothering to say all this? Well... there's a darn good chance my next laptop purchase. a few years from now, won't be a Mac. I'll need to do a fair bit of testing, of course, but I will be looking at how much of a hassle going back to a Linux laptop will be. It's ironic, because I originally moved to Mac from Linux to get away from the hassle. And, all in all, I'd really prefer to stick with OS X... er, macOS, as a platform. But Apple seems hellbent on making their laptops less useful for those of us who actually do need a laptop for work. Sure, having to use a VM to run Photoshop a few times a year will be a hassle... but carrying around a dozen dongles is even more of a hassle - and it's harder to misplace a VM.
Courage... (Score:3)
I see they didn't have the courage to remove the headphone jacks on the MacBooks yet. Interesting.
Then we don't need a Macbook Pro (Score:4, Informative)
Any other REAL "pro" laptop will do the job. You know laptops with USB, HDMI, .. ports, SD card, more than 16GB RAM, a full keyboard, ...
Dongle sticks out more than an SD card slot... (Score:3)
How does a USB dongle with a reader attached to it stick out less than an SD card mounted in the laptop?
Wireless is a hassle (Score:5, Informative)
I have one of those wireless capable cameras. Nearly worthless feature.
First, you have to connect your laptop/phone to the camera's wireless AP, not the other way around. Goodbye internet while transferring files, and having to fuck around with the wireless settings. Want to transfer files to desktop? Nope.
Second, on the cameras I have experience with (Olympus and Sony), you have to use the manufacturers app to transfer files. Want to simply access the files as a disk? Nope. Want to transfer RAW files? Nope.
The only thing the wireless feature is useful is as a remote shutter trigger and viewing the LCD screen when the phone is on a tripod.
The good folks at the Verge... (Score:2)
Re: The good folks at the Verge... (Score:2)
Here is a USB-C adapter which has SD and compact flash. It is $18. Kanex USB-C to SD Card Reader-Space Gray https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C... [amazon.com]
Not sure what the direct camera connection is, but there are USB and micro-USB cables for less than $15.
In a year these prices will be cut in half.
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Except that most pro photographers have cameras that use Compact Flash or a newer protocol. SD is really for consumer stuff. Still very useful and that. Pros have had to use external readers forever.
But most pros are NOT going to be use wireless to transfer 50 MB RAW files or 4 GB video files. Nobody is that patient.
Re:The good folks at the Verge... (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, Canon has been transitioning their DSLR product line to SD for several years, starting with the 6D (2012). Their newer offerings have an SD card slot to make it easier to get data into your laptop.
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I don't understand the criticism in this case. Who uses SD cards? Photographers? Where is the use case that they are lugging around a DSLR, lenses, lights, tripods, and a laptop but are really put out by the SD reader?
Re:We know better than you (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem is that every professional case is a niche case, and every niche is angry that Apple's not directly catering to their needs and instead offering a platform that requires they buy a couple dongles (which are a pain, no argument) over having one port they'll use and three more they won't.
"No SD slot? Who cares! But I need HDMI-out/firewire/ethernet/RS-232/etc. to do my job! Clearly Apple doesn't care about their professional users!
Re:We know better than you (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because that's what makes a laptop a professional model: a bunch of parts that you may or may not ever use.
Any real business laptop these days has an HDMI or DisplayPort output, and probably even a VGA output, because conference room monitors use those connectors. You can't go to some customer site, where you don't know exactly what their conference room has (and they probably don't either, off the tops of their heads), and then bitch at them for not having some brand-new USB-c connection or not having an adapter for your laptop.
Real business laptops have Ethernet jacks, because many businesses (and governments especially) require them for security purposes. How exactly do you think you'd ever use a MacBook with no Ethernet on a secure government network? You wouldn't; those networks are NOT wireless.
A "professional" laptop is not going to require you to carry around a bunch of adapters for all the circumstances you might find yourself in and not anticipate beforehand. This is why *real* pro laptops have all these ports, even if it does make them slightly bigger and heavier. For cheap-ass consumer-grade computers, leaving out stuff that's not used as much may be just fine, but that doesn't work for serious business and professional users.
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this latest flap over ports will have faded into history as the rest of the world moves to USB-C too.
So what you're saying is that right now it's as useless as teats on a bull?
Let's be clear about something. No one would be bitching about this if the announcement were made in 2020. Right now I can't find a single "Professional" use case for this laptop other than to give it to the receptionist at some hipster new startup to show how "cool" they are.
USB-C is coming. Everything will plug and play without adaptors. Just in time for this generation of Macbook "un-Pros" to be relegated to the dustbin and upgrad
Re:We know better than you (Score:4, Insightful)
but in fairness: no major-brand, professional laptop has had VGA or DVI outputs for awhile. HDMI and [mini-]DisplayPort for sure, but not the pinned ones. Both VGA and DVI are too thick. Most professional laptops have also dumped the ethernet port for the same reason.
What are you talking about? My Dell E6420 isn't *that* old, and has both VGA and Ethernet (and HDMI). My HP laptop at work is about a year old, and also has these same ports. You can't have a professional laptop without Ethernet. Where I work, there is NO wifi at all, for security reasons. Ethernet is the only thing allowed.
For example, the Surface product line has gotten along just fine without HDMI, VGA, or DVI. They expect you to use a dongle, which is itself fine.
That's fine I guess for a consumer product, not a professional laptop. I'm not going to carry around dongles just so I can use the conference room systems at work. And I don't have to, because they're smart enough to buy laptops with a full complement of ports.
Most importantly though? I use ESC without looking and I also use function keys regularly throughout the course of the day: keyboard brightness (up/down), play/pause, and volume (up/down/mute). Now, not only do I get no haptic feedback when I use them, like Surface's failed TouchCover, but they're context aware, which means that they won't always be there!
Yeah, that's really lame. But to be fair, a lot of consumer laptops got rid of the dedicated volume/mute keys ages ago too, just to save money. You're supposed to change volume in software I guess. Business laptops still have these though. So again, Apple shows the new MBP isn't a real business laptop. And not having an Escape key is an outright deal-breaker and makes the machine completely unusable.
Re:We know better than you (Score:5, Insightful)
That is nearly accurate, except that *every* professional would appreciate a USB port and a Gigabit Ethernet port. They may not always use them, but they are just essential for a lot of different jobs. On the SD card I half agree: I like it, I use it a lot, but it is getting less common.
Of course the elephant in the room is that both USB port and SD port can be used for (cheap) storage extensions. And Apple absolutely wants to prevent that. So I think that is the real reason: form and money over function.
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The problem is that every professional case is a niche case, and every niche is angry that Apple's not directly catering to their needs...
Maybe if we could buy a MacOS laptop from someone besides Apple we wouldn't be so insistent they make a machine that fits what we need.
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Re:We know better than you (Score:5, Insightful)
Where is the use case that they are lugging around a DSLR, lenses, lights, tripods, and a laptop but are really put out by the SD reader?
Its not about the 'lugging it around'; its not even about the cost; it's about the sheer blind arrogance and idiocy of making a tool less useful. The 'pro' series stuff is supposed to be a TOOL for PROFESSIONALS.
Tools are supposed to be functional. When they are less functional for absolutely no good reason, people who use them get pissed.
Nobody thought that macbook pro was too big, nobody wanted it thinner. Nobody wanted them to remove the sd card.
Meanwhile apple comes out with this nonsense...
"and because wireless transfer technology for cameras is "proving very useful" as an alternative"
You know how a photographer works? They fill a card, pull it out, and put in the next one and keep going. They don't sit around for 2 hours doing an 8 or 16GB wireless transfer.
" Then there are very fine and fast USB card readers,"
And it used to be built in.
"and then you can use CompactFlash as well as SD"
Great idea Apple. Add a CF slot. That would be an actual feature.
"we picked SD because more consumer cameras have SD but you can only pick one"
Bullshit. You can pick more than one. You've got all that space from taking the DVD out, and the expresscard slot out, and the SSD is a fraction of the size of the old hard drive... so room isn't a problem. Add the 2nd most popular slot, and watch people actually get excited about the new laptop instead.
Better still make it a modular part, so if it breaks, it's easy to replace. That would be how you design a professional tool.
Oh... you took all that space and made it thinner instead... nobody wanted it thinner.
Imagine you used a heavy duty pickup truck for work.
Then the next years model is announced its new truck, basically a Porsche 911 with a trailer hitch.. And the maker told you, well... this is better because people need to carry different cargo... and this way you can buy exactly the trailer you need!! Oh and with the availability of courier services (aka 'wireless transfer') a lot of people don't even need a truck bed at all... they just make a phone call and the cargo shows up at the destination!!
And just look at this new 'truck' its smaller, and lighter, and handles great. Look how sleek it is. (Well.. until you actually hook up a trailer (aka usb dongle) to it and then its unwieldy as shit... but we didn't REALLY want you to use a trailer with it... did we mention you can get a courier to move stuff for you!!)
Oh, and it's virtually un-serviceable except at specialized dealers; so keep it in the city and maybe the highway -- don't take this truck onto farm roads and mountain roads. Its just not built for that. If you need something from a farm or mountain road... it has this great built in phone you can use to call real professional with actual tools to do it for you!
That's about apple's recent approach to dealing with 'professionals' who need 'tools'.
Re:We know better than you (Score:5, Insightful)
Make it a modular part? That's a great idea. Like, maybe they could make it detachable, and then it would be easy to swap. They could use a standard interconnect for it, maybe with a standards based cable that's really fast, so you don't have to worry about bandwidth.
Modular is good, that way people that don't need it don't have to have their laptop burdened with a useless port.
Not all people that buy Mac Pros are photography professionals. We have a Nikon D3s at home--a pro level camera--and it uses compact flash, so we've NEVER used the SD card slot. My point-and-shoot camera uses a mini-SD card, so I still can't use that SD card slot. Just give me a USB port and an adaptor so I can put WHATEVER thing I want there.
Not all professionals are the same, and not even all professionals of the same type have the same needs. More ports, yes, but more multi-use ports.
They Did. (Score:3)
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
The problem is the guy that knew what the world wanted died and as a result the rest of the monkeys were left in charge.
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> âoeIf I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.â
This reminds me of western where an obnoxious motorist gets himself stuck in the mud and some relic of the old west jumps over him with his horse.
Sometimes, the horse is still the better tool for the job.
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But that's the only way we can make the phone so thin that you need an inch-thick cover to keep it from crumbling like tinfoil!
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But it will be the styliest ever.
Yes, styliest. That's a word. And I've been using it for much longer than it has been cool!
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Because Compact Flash to SD card adaptors don't exist.
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You forgot the argument about pro-level cameras making 50MB RAW files, and how long this will take to transfer wirelessly when you shoot 1000 pictures in one night.
The solution is simple: you just need to stop using RAW, and set the camera to record in a low-resolution JPEG format; that way, wireless transfer will be pretty quick. It takes a courageous company like Apple to make professional photographers realize they're being silly by using these ultra-high-resolution image formats instead of a more conve
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