No New MacBook Airs as Apple Instead Makes Lower-End, $1,500 MacBook Pro (arstechnica.com) 191
Alongside the two new MacBook Pros, Apple also unveiled a refresh for its popular MacBook Air lineup. The company is calling this: the MacBook Pro, same branding as the other two MacBook Pros. It's a lower-end version of the new MacBook Pros, with no "Touch Bar" (or the Touch ID) and is powered by a slightly slower processor. Starting at $1,499, this MacBook Pro model is slightly cheaper too, though. From an ArsTechnica report:Apple said it will continue selling the existing 13" MacBook Air, but the company made a point of comparing that model to this new lower-end Pro, putting it somewhere between the Air and the other Pros in the lineup. The new 13" MacBook Pro starts at $1,499 and will begin shipping today. The new higher-end Pros will start at $1,799 for the 13" model and $2,399 for the 15" model while shipping in two to three weeks. If you don't select any hardware upgrades, the low-end 13" Pro has a sixth-generation Intel Core i5 processor with dual cores clocked at 2.0GHz, Intel Iris Graphics 540, 8GB memory, and 256GB SSD. It is available in space grey and silver, and it can cost up to $2,599 if you select the highest CPU, memory, and storage upgrades. Those available upgrades include a 2.4GHz Core i7 processor, 16GB of memory, and 512GB or 1TB of SSD storage. The new 13" laptop has a 2560x1600 Retina display, two Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and a headphone jack. It has the same Force Touch trackpad and redesigned keyboard as the higher-end models despite not integrating the Touch Bar and Touch ID.
I hope Apple knows (Score:4, Informative)
As of the latest surface announcements, Microsoft is ahead of them hardware-wise in everything except for the iPhone.
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Re:I hope Apple knows (Score:5, Insightful)
^This.
Any new computer hardware on the market these days is plenty powerful enough to handle anything a typical user might ever want to do.
That means that unless you're a power user (or video game or VR enthusiast), there's going to be very little difference between your experiences using a modern low-end vs a modern high-end system; either one will work just fine for you.
So the remaining criterion (other than purchase price) is the quality of the user-experience -- i.e. how much of your time at the computer is spent getting accomplished the things you want to accomplish, and how much is spent dealing with computer problems?
Minimizing the latter is what Mac users are willing to pay extra for.
That and Unix supported by corporate IT (Score:5, Interesting)
The last two places I worked, Windows and Mac were the allowed, supported desktop operating systems. Everyone in my group would much prefer Unix over Windows, and Mac is certified Unix.
My employer before these last two supported one desktop environment, CentOS. It was a security company with a lot pf access to customer networks, so Windows wasn't allowed on the company network.
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That means that unless you're a power user (or video game or VR enthusiast)
Yes, the sort of person who would choose the "Pro" model over the standard or low end models. What exactly is the Pro model supposed to be for if not exactly these people?
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Gaming Need/Want => 64Gb
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Re: I hope Apple knows (Score:2)
I've noticed even in the non-apple world, laptops capable of handling 64GB of RAM are pretty rare.
My desktop has 32GB. Most days I don't need it, but I certainly enjoy having it when I /do/ need it. I run Funtoo Linux, highly optimized, and in my quiet days I usually stay in under 1GB. The second I boot up Windows in a VM that quickly jumps to over 8GB, then if I fire up Photoshop or Illustrator, that jumps over 10GB easily. I don't do much for graphics these days, but its certainly nice to be able to when
Re: I hope Apple knows (Score:2)
I meant to say laptops capable of handling 32GB are rare, not 64GB.
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As mentioned in my initial post, I've got more than enough hardware capable of handling this at home, but hopping on a plane a couple of times a week leaves me really wanting a nice reliable, l
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I love my Dell M6700. It's a mobile workstation. 4 hard drives, 32 GB of ram, 17" screen and full keyboard.
But I realize I'm not someone Apple makes laptops for.
Just as easy to get OS X in a VM of some sort.
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My desktop has 32GB. I use it too.
Crypto can be a memory hog at times.
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what are you doing that 16 GB isn't enough? Keep in mind it has an SSD so the swap isn't exactly slow.
Re: I hope Apple knows (Score:2)
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As subk and others mentioned, Virtualization, but also, this is their Pro laptop, not the consumer laptop. You will have people running photoshop, or doing video processing, drafting software, circuit board or chip fabbing. There are many things pro users will use their computers for that the average user doesn't.
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Why are you virtualizing on a laptop? Why not use a server?
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I do development and run large custom code all of the time. My Windows machine has 8 GB of memory and I rarely use it up. When I do I should be on a server anyways--laptops aren't really made to run dead out for hours on end. Plus, my servers have far more cores and memory that you're ever going to see in a laptop. Basically, if you want 32 GB in your laptop you're doing it wrong. Aside from my work stuff, I also have some servers at home. It's far less expensive than updating my laptop every few years.
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Everybody has their own needs, but my bet is that the 16-32 GB requirement crowd is pretty slim.
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NFL is useing a shity web app over wifi in a poor (Score:4, Insightful)
NFL is using a shity web app over wifi in a poor environment for 100% uptime must work wifi. I hope the servers are local and are not being held back by web traffic getting in the way.
Re:I hope Apple knows (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they can work on the OS next.
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Maybe they can work on the OS next.
Maybe that highlights the real problem here. Just as Microsoft was able to grow lax and fail to deliver products because of their monopoly in OS usages in the 90's, Apple, being the sole provider of legitimately supported MacOS machines, is under no pressure to make computers that have the features consumers want.
"Maybe Apple can work on their hardware next" -- why should they with their captive audience?
Whoa! (Score:2)
Bye, MagSafe (Score:5, Interesting)
jerks.
Re:Bye, MagSafe (Score:4, Insightful)
they removed one of the biggest selling features for me: MagSafe. That one connector has saved my notebook's ass many times, and it's a sad day to see it disappear off notebooks until Apple's magsafe patent expire someday. PreviouslyApple claimed the macbook air was too light for the magnets to separate, but i don't think that argument applies for the heavier macbook pro.
jerks.
I like MagSafe too. Looks like Griffin (and others?) are selling magnetic couplers for USB-c ports:
https://griffintechnology.com/... [griffintechnology.com]
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That still sticks out so it can hit something and break the port. That isn't a great solution.
It may be a great solution for the Apple Thunderbolt Displays. For laptops in the classroom or kitchen its still probably a good solution, the danger is someone yanking the cord. Banging the laptop, and in such a way to just hit the adapter perfectly, doesn't seem like one of the more common hazards.
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A while ago, i stumbled on this ad.
Its for micro usb, but surely it could be made for usb-c as well. Thier target is phone chargers, so weight inertia shouldn;t be an issue.
http://www.dx.com/p/wsken-micr... [dx.com]
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A while ago, i stumbled on this ad.
Its for micro usb, but surely it could be made for usb-c as well. Thier target is phone chargers, so weight inertia shouldn;t be an issue.
http://www.dx.com/p/wsken-micr... [dx.com]
It looks like there are a variety of options that claim data as well as power for micro usb - here is another one:
http://www.dx.com/p/magnetic-d... [dx.com]
With all the Apple models now using USB-c exclusively, there is going to be quite a market for adapters and docks and general peripherals with USB-c.
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PreviouslyApple claimed the macbook air was too light for the magnets to separate, but i don't think that argument applies for the heavier macbook pro.
The new Macbook Pro is about 0.06 lbs heavier than the Macbook Air.
Still, I essentially agree with you. Magsafe is great, and If they're going to make the Macbook Pro so it only has 3 ports on it, I'm not sure I like the idea of using one of them for power.
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Still, I essentially agree with you. Magsafe is great, and If they're going to make the Macbook Pro so it only has 3 ports on it, I'm not sure I like the idea of using one of them for power.
I particularly like being able to wave the connector somewhere near the port and have them pull together. Even when I'm drunk. It's pretty classy.
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You just lack courage!
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they removed one of the biggest selling features for me: MagSafe. That one connector has saved my notebook's ass many times
I think it's a great design that should be replicated on all laptops... but I've never once had anything bad happen to one of my Windows laptops because someone tripped over the cord. When people say this, and talk about all the times the MagSafe saved something, I wonder what kinds of environments they're using their laptops in.
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I tripped over the charging lead to my ThinkPad (R31) while it was on the top of a chest of drawers doing a big compile job. The machine flew across the machine and landed on its corner, with the edge of the case popping off. The compile paused for a few seconds and then continued and I was able to pop the case together, but I was very glad that it was my cheap laptop! I've kicked the charging cable for my MBP a few times (I often leave it by or on the sofa, plugged into the wall) and had the cable pop o
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Re:Bye, MagSafe (Score:5, Insightful)
It makes sense for Apple: one MacBook saved is one less sale for them.
And I'm not even joking - I would not put this past them.
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Now, it has 2 TB SDD which I want, but no word if the SDD is sold separately and is backwards-compatib
Only from Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not their low-end laptop. On the other hand, their low-end laptop is $999 (or $1300 if they discontinue the Air), which still isn't cheap. On the third hand, shop out a similarly spec'ed laptop (with of a similar size, weight, screen quality, etc.) from other vendors, and if you can find something, it'll probably be similarly priced.
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It's not their low-end laptop.
I didn't say it was their low-end laptop.
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I was citing the summary title which said it was Apple's lower-end laptop.
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You: "Only from Ford is a $27k car considered 'lower end'."
Me: "Yeah, but that's the lower-end *Taurus*. Ford sells cheaper cars. You can get a Fiesta for $14k"
You: "I didn't say that the Taurus was their low-end car. I said lower end."
Me: "Yeah, but lower-end *Taurus*."
You: "Exactly. Lower-end."
Me: "What the hell are we talking about now?"
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I ran a Mac-like Linux distribution on her Linux PC, but it was not 'the real thing'.
I doubt you found something that's actually Mac-like. For example, did drag-and-drop work reliably between any arbitrary pair of applications? Did all of the applications support scripting remote? Did it have a system-wide search that did full-text indexing of all document types (including PDFs, office documents, and so on)?
Most such things are really crappy copies because they only duplicate the superficial irrelevant crap. I don't care if it looks like OS X - Apple's made a bunch of poor design decis
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Keyboard copy paste works great in Windows
Yup, mostly works in Windows. But now go to a 'Mac-like Linux distro' - can you copy an image in your web browser, paste it into your mail client, chat client, or word processor? What about a vector image, do you get a resizeable PDF or something rasterised? Does it work with video? If you drag a folder from the file manager into a terminal, does it give you a correctly-escaped path (actually, this one seems to have started working in the last couple of years in most DEs)?
I try to limit remote anything from running on my machine.
Which implies that you don't ac
2 ports and one needs to to be used for power (Score:2)
2 ports and one needs to to be used for power. How much for a power + TB 3 / USB 3.1 gen 2 pass though dongle? Or even a power + usb A 3.1 + e-net one?
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256GB is small for some people / work flows and wifi does not work that well when you have 30-50 all on the same AP or have your area loaded with 6-10 AP all talking over each other.
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How many people buy Apple's wireless printers if they need to print something? Not everyone wishes to drive to FedEx Kinkos or other such shops. What if someone wants a bigger or more ergonomic keyboard? Or mouse? What if one doesn't want to spend more on iCloud, having burned enough money on the MBP?
Although if I were a Mac user, I'd probably get an off the shelf USB hub, connect it to the USB C port on the Mac, and then run whatever connections I needed to anything else - printers, speakers, keybo
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Then they need to put more than 1 TB of storage in the thing. The days of being able to use a Mac without external storage are in the past, not the future. Five or six years ago, my laptop had 1 TB of storage. Now, even with the hardware they announced today, I'm still stuck with the same capacity, and a lot more data to store in it. I maintain multiple external drives at this point. Apple's hardware hasn't failed to mee
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You can get 2 TB in the 15 inch. For a price, of course.
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Good to know. It isn't mentioned on their spec page (or wasn't when I looked right before posting that).
Re:2 ports and one needs to to be used for power (Score:4, Insightful)
I get it that some people do need the extra ports.
Yes. They're called "Pros."
But truthfully most people don't and can work fine without it.
Most people aren't "Pros." For those people, there are options like the MacBook and MacBook Air.
If Apple wants to sell to "Pros," they need to have a MacBook that does what a Pro wants to do. That means performance--I'm fine with an extra pound of weight if it's 50% faster at rendering images, compiles, etc. I need to be able to charge it while attaching a camera and a USB dongle or external hard drive. That's the sort of thing a "Pro" might do.
I agree that my Mom isn't going to be doing something like that and there are a lot more people like my Mom than there are people like me. But taking a laptop designed for my Mom and sticking the word "Pro" at the end doesn't suddenly make it a Pro laptop.
Look, if the "Pro" market isn't big enough for Apple anymore, that's fine. Go out with your head held high and make computers for my Mom. I'm sure she'll love them.
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USB C 3.1 is hopefully the last fucking connector we have to deal with.
Ha ha, That's funny. I like your style.
I'll be skipping this generation ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got a mid-2012 13" MacBook Pro that's been my workhorse. Between media files and virtual machines, I'm using about 850 GB of a 1 TB hard drive. At my current rate of data expansion, I'll probably break the 1 TB barrier in the next year or so.
After seeing today's product announcements, it looks like I'll be buying a Samsung 2 TB SSD for my current machine instead, given that the cheapest 2 TB configured MacBook Pro would be a 15" edition at $3800. There is no longer a 13" model to replace what I have.
I've been a loyal Apple laptop buyer for 15+ years, but the wheels have finally fallen off the wagon for me. I don't need a laptop thin enough to shave with. I want something that will allow me to upgrade the SSD at the very least. And no more Magsafe adapter? I can't count the number of times the Magsafe has saved me from damaging my laptop, not to mention the insanity of having only USB-C on a supposedly professional model.
So what's the alternative? A Dell? An HP? A Surface? Every bit as bad, or worse. Who would have ever imagined that the entire laptop market would have either cost-cut or over-specialize itself into irrelevance for professional users?
All I can do is wait and hope that the next iteration of MacBooks will provide a return to sanity.
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All I can do is wait and hope that the next iteration of MacBooks will provide a return to sanity.
Don't hold your breath.
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Yeah, I know. I'm not particularly hopeful either.
On the other hand, in two to four years we may be seeing Micron's 3-D Xpoint memory moving into the high-end prosumer market. So maybe, just maybe, Apple will market a 13" laptop with several TB of memory before the end of the decade. If I can just keep the current laptop going with an SSD upgrade, I may be able to make it.
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Nope, I am not going to replace my 13" MBP with a 17" behemoth that weighs 7.6 pounds. Size and portability do matter to me, just not to the insane extent that Apple tries to push it.
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Fuck me you're easy to please. I want everything, I want it all powerful, and I want it the size of a tablet?
Your big problem is you think professional laptops include a use case which they simply don't do. 13" "professional" laptop? Hell no. You'll alienate more users with than then not.
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Fuck me you're easy to please. I want everything, I want it all powerful, and I want it the size of a tablet?
Your big problem is you think professional laptops include a use case which they simply don't do. 13" "professional" laptop? Hell no. You'll alienate more users with than then not.
This [lowendmac.com] is a reasonable professional laptop, and what I've been using for coding and data analysis for the last few years. Tons of ports, upgradable SSD/RAM, and easy to constantly lug around at 4.5 lbs. I don't need a huge monitor in the field and just because someone doesn't want to drag one around doesn't mean that they're not doing real work on the laptop.
If Apple refreshed this system, I'd stay with them. That model is also the last system that is easily upgradable, too.
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I posted pretty much the exact same comment, including current laptop model, earlier this week. I'm leaning System 76 [system76.com] at this point. At bare minimum, while the hardware isn't quite as nice as Apple's, I can configure a real MBP replacement for half the cost of the current generation of MBPs with 2x the hardware capacity. And ports galore. And a real battery. And a matte screen.
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I just had the same discussion with a friend. Between Microsoft's shittastic Windows 10, and the joke that Apple insists on becoming, we're at a loss as to what to do. The entire playing field has gone to crap.
I have a 2011 MBP that I upgraded the memory on and HDD on, and it's pretty much 'good enough'. I would like to upgrade, but the options available seem to be getting worse each year.
Dell's Ubuntu XPS machine looks interesting, but there's just no equivalent to Parallels for linux. VirtualBox works
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That will be my strategy as well, assuming my mid-2012 MBP doesn't hold out. Buy a used mid-2012 model to replace it, and hope Apple produces another laptop that I'm willing to buy within the
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Just looked at the 17 Lenovo Thinkpad T70 - with 32 GB RAM and a measly 512 GB SSD the thing runs at $4200. Other than a slightly better screen and moderately improved graphics chip, it's annoyingly comparable to my 2011 17 inch MBP (24 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, 1 TB HD), better trackpad.
Damn. This really wasn't supposed to happen. Looks like it's a refurbered 2015 15 inch MBP with 16 GB RAM (actually OK for what I do) and some aftermarket drive additions.
So incredibly disappointed.
Still limited to 16GB of RAM.... (Score:3, Informative)
... no magsafe, no headphone jack, no optical out.
Not excited.
Re:Still limited to 16GB of RAM.... (Score:4, Informative)
It has a headphone jack.
Literally the only good announcement here is that they didn't remove the one thing they stripped from their other flagship device. What a frigging joke. It's good now that I can't connect my phone to my laptop without an adaptor, can't connect my laptop headphones to my phone without an adaptor, and best of all both adaptors are different so I get to pay twice as much for the privilege of nothing being inter-connectable all brought to you by a company who used to have inter-connectivity of their products be a number one selling feature.
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Even better, like every recent MacBook Pro, the headphone jack has optical outputs. The only thing correct in that post was the amount of RAM.
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But what has optical at the other end? I don't know of anything and I have my share of musical equipment to support my guitar and recording habit.
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But what has optical at the other end?
Everything since the last 90s? Computers, walkmans, home theaters, digital radios, cdplayers, md recorders, dacs, DATs, ....
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Ahh. I listen with headphones. I record with mixing consoles and various XLR/buffer/USB gizmos. None of them use optical. I don't own anything you could describe at a component of an old school hifi setup. The TV uses ethernet.
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Thanks. A whole genre of home electronics I managed to completely avoid.
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Oops, sorry. I missed the mention of Magsafe. :-)
Did the optical output ever appear on the spec sheets?
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No headphone jack would have tipped the scales. I never put headphones in my phone, but I live with my bose noise cancelers plugged into my computer all days at work and when I'm on planes.
I swear that all the manufacturers are going to follow the no headphone jack meme in the next couple of years because they can't help themselves and the world will hate them for it and then they will slowly come back after a new generation of management gets to power and decides to undo the errors of the past.
mini, imac, mac pro still same price and same old (Score:3)
mini, imac, mac pro still same price and same old hardware configs.
Yep, time to go back to Linux (Score:2)
Debian Unstable ftw.
Apple, your Ex Girlfriend and Inertia (Score:2)
Apple is becoming the girlfriend who you started becoming disenchanted with a year ago, but keep seeing because you know each other and have relationship inertia, and it's easier to coast than the scary challenge of starting over.
So, Apple continues to offer less value to consumers yet demands the same, or higher price points. With customers locked into iTunes, locked into iMessage, locked into the app ecosystem on both mobile and desktop, this is a calculated gamble that they can put ho-hum parts in a box
Actually, they're still selling the previous one (Score:2)
You have to scroll to the bottom of their "MacBook Pro" page, click on the lower-end 13" laptop (e.g. the one this submission is talking about), and then scroll down again... but Apple is still listing and selling the previous version [apple.com], complete with MagSafe, two full-size USB 3.0 ports, two Thunderbolt 2 ports, and an SD card slot. The base price ($1299) has a 128GB drive, but you can configure it with more storage.
No new Macbook Air? (Score:2)
esc = Ctrl + [ (Score:2)
Perhaps Apple wants people to remember tricks.
So "Pro" means nothing now? (Score:2)
At least they're using the latest hardware for once, lending some credence to their pricing. What, really? These aren't using the latest hardware? Well shit, that's a ripoff.
That touchstrip is pretty cool though. Not sure that justifies the price though. Aside from the SSD (which were too expensive at the time) and display resolution,
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Yes, ironically, the lowest end model has the features that the people buying the high end i7 models need. Presumably there will be a developer edition 13" model with an esc key and an i7 as a BTO
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Yes, ironically, the lowest end model has the features that the people buying the high end i7 models need.
Except the ability to attach a display, external storage device and power cable ... because Apple handicapped it with just two ports. I guess it's "Pro" because that's one more than the MacBook has.
It has two Thunderbolt ports and a USB-C charging port. So yes, you can attach a display (adapter/cable not included), external storage device (adapter/cable not included) and power cable (power supply and cable included, by God!).
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There's a number of USB-C capable displays already, I can think of three off the top of my head and the last time I looked was back in July. Monocable has USB-C -> Mini Display Port and HDMI adapters for under $10; the world will catch up.
In other news, the Macbook Pros can support up to 2x 5K displays. Not shabby.
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The lowest end model has keys, not the new do-dad. But the do-dad is just app-sensitive keys: if you need it to be an escape key, then it is.
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if you need it to be an escape key, then it is.
Correct. Also, an ESC key is included on the touch bar by default. So if unless an app changes it, you have an ESC key.
Disclaimer: I just ordered a new 15" Macbook Pro for my wife. She is a vim user, so the ESC key is a mission critical necessity.
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> She is a vim user
Is the offspring of a vim user and an emacs user fertile? I don't know if such miscegenation is legal- I would check the POSIX standard to be sure.
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what, do you use vi or something?
Every day.
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I swear to god Apple is like a "stupid" tax.
Not exactly. Taxes are involuntary: you're required to pay them whether you want to or not. No one is forcing anyone to buy an Apple. People do this entirely willingly, just like they happily and willingly buy or pay for things like cable TV (including premium sports channels), church tithes, horrifically expensive handbags or designer clothes like from Coach or Gucci, Jeeps, or Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
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Skylake is not obsolete. Kind of confused about the 16 GB max, but that does not seem shockingly small for a laptop.
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