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Aetna To Provide Apple Watch To 50,000 Employees, Subsidize Cost For Customers (macrumors.com) 150

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Mac Rumors: Insurance company Aetna today announced a major health initiative centered on the iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch, which will see Aetna subsidizing the cost of the Apple Watch for both large employers and individual customers. Starting this fall during open enrollment season, Aetna will subsidize "a significant portion" of the Apple Watch cost and will offer monthly payroll deductions to cover the remaining cost. Aetna also plans to provide Apple Watches at no cost to all of its nearly 50,000 employees as part of a wellness reimbursement program to encourage them to live healthier lives. Aetna plans to develop several iOS health initiatives with "support" from Apple, debuting "deeply integrated" health apps for the iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch that will be available to all Aetna customers. According to Aetna, these apps will "simplify the healthcare process" with features like care management to guide customers through a new diagnosis or a medication, medication reminders and tools for easy refills, quick contact with doctors, integration with Apple Wallet for paying bills and checking deductibles, and tools to help Aetna members get the most out of their insurance benefits. Aetna's health-related apps will be available starting in early 2017, but the Apple Watch initiative will begin in 2016. Aetna has not detailed how much of the cost will be subsidized or which Apple Watch models will be available to subscribers.
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Aetna To Provide Apple Watch To 50,000 Employees, Subsidize Cost For Customers

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    APPLE!

    I guess all those studies saying these devices are actually counter productive don't matter when APPLE!

    makes sense tho capitalism was always more important than science in the ol' US of A!

    • bad for wearer's health and wallet (or his/her employer's accounts), healthy for apple, for a short time.

    • You should probably hope that those studies are correct as there's a lot of conflicting evidence, because if health trackers are at all beneficial other companies are going to start pushing them as well. You won't *have* to use one, but if you want the lower rates you will. The only nice thing about Apple is that they're generally not interested in selling your information to third parties, but I have a feeling that if their stock slides enough the share holders won't give a flying fuck about whatever cultu
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The insurance company won't *have* to honor their coverage, but it'll be far easier for them to consider doing so, if you have a fitness tracker.

        That's what it's about.

        Taking in premiums, but coming up with even more reasons to deny coverage on claims.

      • by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @09:37PM (#52973495) Journal

        You should probably hope that those studies are correct as there's a lot of conflicting evidence, because if health trackers are at all beneficial other companies are going to start pushing them as well. You won't *have* to use one, but if you want the lower rates you will.

        I train brazillian Jui Jitsu. I wanted to wear a fitness tracker to figure out how much work I do in a session because they are very intense, the warm-ups are what most fitness places call a 'work-out'. You can wear them in the warm up however the trouble with them is they get torn off when you fight and they *can't* track the amount of work I am doing. They also injure training partners. I've considered wearing them around my shoulder or ankle however I'm not sure you can do that with them. It also give opponents a grip point that you can't release yourself from, so they are a tactical disadvantage.

        That's why insurance companies getting involved with fitness seems stupid, they can never really capture my choices for fitness or understand how fit I am (from 6 days a week of 2 hr sessions) or what I have to do to maintain my fitness. Inevitabley, if insurance companies get involved, they will conglomerate the choices into something that works for the masses, be ineffective for people who really need to get fit and crate a hassle for many people for who exercise is lifestyle.

        Fitness trackers don't work for everyone.

        • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

          I meant to add:

          That if employers and insurance companies require me to wear one of these things, then they should make time considerations and, pay for my work-outs.

          • and give you workers comp for work-outs injurys as they you can say it's part of the job.

            • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

              and give you workers comp for work-outs injurys as they you can say it's part of the job.

              Well, if it's a pre-condition of insurance, then why not. Injuries are as inevitable from sports at some stage as long term health implications of not exercising. Injuries don't happen all the time and the productivity gains being sought are tied to health and well being in the first place.

              As far as I know there is no, better than I was before the heart attack or stroke.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )

          I train brazillian Jui Jitsu. I wanted to wear a fitness tracker to figure out how much work I do in a session because they are very intense, the warm-ups are what most fitness places call a 'work-out'. You can wear them in the warm up however the trouble with them is they get torn off when you fight and they *can't* track the amount of work I am doing.

          If you train Jui Jitsu, why do you feel the need to quantify the amount of work you're doing? It's like needing a special device to tell you how much fun yo

          • Try up-up-down-down-left-right-b-a-b-a

            • Try up-up-down-down-left-right-b-a-b-a

              No need, I'm already S-level. Plus, at my age, I'm lucky to get in the up-down-up-down. All that left-right-a-b stuff is just too much work.

              Wait, are we talking about the same thing?

          • by Anonymous Coward

            "It's like needing a special device to tell you how much fun you're having at a party."

            breathalysers FTW!

          • He must be an absolute beginner. No martial artist worth his salt is retarded enough to wear anything but the required gear for that art.
            You know: "They also injure training partners."
            Yeah, no shit, Sherlock (-GP).

            • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

              He must be an absolute beginner.

              I have Gracie signatures on two of my old belts, so go figure out how far, so far.

              No martial artist worth his salt is retarded enough to wear anything but the required gear for that art.

              Yes, I did point out in one of my other post how I could see people would come to that conclusion.

              You know: "They also injure training partners."

              Not as much as sharp fingernails.

              Yeah, no shit, Sherlock (-GP).

              jeez mate, chillout.

              • I have Gracie signatures on two of my old belts, so go figure out how far, so far.

                Christ, who gives a fuck about signatures? Even if you'd have mentioned the color of the belts, it would have meant little. You are focused on entirely the wrong things.

                jeez mate, chillout.

                I'm just trying to prevent people from trying the same stupid shit.

                One of the first things you (are supposed to) learn in martial arts is "when training, take off your jewelry, watches, etc."
                Failing to comply with that is potentially dangerous and disrespectful to everybody you are training with. Suggesting wearing a fitness tracker is fueli

                • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                  I have Gracie signatures on two of my old belts, so go figure out how far, so far.

                  Christ, who gives a fuck about signatures? Even if you'd have mentioned the color of the belts, it would have meant little.

                  People who earn them. You posited, incorrectly, that I was an absolute beginner. That I have trained with one of the pioneers of the art [wikipedia.org] was a polite way of telling you that you are wrong.

                  jeez mate, chillout.

                  I'm just trying to prevent people from trying the same stupid shit.

                  No you're not. You're taking an opportunity for some recreational outrage so you can feel superior.

                  Failing to comply with that is potentially dangerous and disrespectful to everybody you are training with.

                  A lesson you have obviously not learned: be humble and respectful to everybody.

                  Suggesting wearing a fitness tracker is fueling bad behavior (although only highly unprofessional trainers would even allow it).

                  Your comprehension skills are poor and you are trying to twist what I said. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and instead of being graceful abou

                  • People who earn them.

                    Ah, so now saying "Hey, would you sign this?" is called 'earning something'?
                    If you've indeed had a lot of training as you imply, I feel sorry for you. Truly, the idea of wearing a fitness tracker during training is something that should have never entered your mind and apparently your trainers have not been able to instill such wisdom in you.

                    No you're not. You're taking an opportunity for some recreational outrage so you can feel superior.

                    No. I take martial arts seriously, have taught several of them (albeit as a substitute in most cases) and have seen many people with various flaws in their demeanor, wi

                    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                      People who earn them.

                      Ah, so now saying "Hey, would you sign this?" is called 'earning something'? If you've indeed had a lot of training as you imply, I feel sorry for you.

                      Well I'm sorry I failed you, Obi Wan.

                      Truly, the idea of wearing a fitness tracker during training is something that should have never entered your mind and apparently your trainers have not been able to instill such wisdom in you.

                      Well the issue is being competitive and winning fights. I've already explained the rationale of the use c [slashdot.org]

                    • It was good to read (in your other comments) that you haven't actually had one on during training yet. You made it seem that way in this specific thread, though.

                      Well holding me responsible for what some data mad martial arts freak slashdotter might do with their lethal fitness tracker is a bit absurd.

                      I wasn't. I was holding you responsible for implying that it might be fine to wear fitness trackers while training in martial arts.

                      I'll be purchasing the chest sensor variety, as suggested, and continuing with my journey.

                      That is still a bad idea. Not as bad as that of a wrist-worn one, but still bad.

                    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                      That is still a bad idea. Not as bad as that of a wrist-worn one, but still bad.

                      Why? Why is it a bad idea to acquire data on the performance of my body when I train? I have to make weight to fight and cramping can mean I loose anywhere between 5-30mins of training time.

                      Have you ever competed? What do you suggest?

                    • Why? Why is it a bad idea to acquire data on the performance of my body when I train?

                      The latter is obviously not the issue. Depending on what you wear during training, your sparring partner may get snagged in the thing when attempting to grab you for throwing. In general, your sparring partner should not be expected to expect something hard to be on your chest. Probably not a thing in BJJ, but I imagine punching into the unit would not be beneficial to the one punching and the one receiving the punch.

                      In all fairness, the potential damage is probably limited (nobody is going to die or anythi

                    • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                      in BJJ

                      No, I have not competed at any semi-professional level.

                      Thanks for your advice, I don't think you are familiar with how we train though and what I need to do to get myself to competition fitness.

          • What makes you think people do jiu-jitsu for fun? Not everyone is the same and not everything has the same motivations. People say I must really love running. I don't. I run for fitness and health. I wear a tracker as both a check and also as a competition. I wear it because I want to be better, to improve, and advice all in order to do this I need metrics to track. ... Kind of like a coloured belt.

            • What makes you think people do jiu-jitsu for fun?

              People who do jiu-jitsu (and other martial arts) will tell you that "fun" is a wholly inadequate word to describe the experience. I never said it was about fun. It's about something much greater than simply fun.

              I wear it because I want to be better, to improve

              If you want to be better, to improve, at a martial art, metrics (and especially a wristwatch!) is the wrong way to go about it.

              Kind of like a coloured belt.

              If you want to be better, to improve, a "col

              • And yet you still have a very very closed view that implies everyone does it for the same reasons you do. It's the no-true-Scotsman taken to the elite and extremes.

                When you're done contemplating this ask your class if they'd quit their job and go study with Shaolin monks. The vast majority of them will say no I only do this for [insert reason which has nothing to do with perfecting a martial art]. Shit man type Jiu-Jitsu into Google, go to any website and click "about" and some of the top things you'll see

                • And yet you still have a very very closed view that implies everyone does it for the same reasons you do.

                  I didn't address the reasons someone would study martial arts. I questioned that wearable fitness trackers would in any way enhance the experience.

              • Its great that you know the right way to do it and everyone else who wants to deviate is wrong.

                • Its great that you know the right way to do it and everyone else who wants to deviate is wrong.

                  "Knowing the right way to do it" is something beginners learn.

                  If you want numerical validation for your physical activity, then maybe cross-fit would be more appropriate than a serious discipline like jiu-jitsu. I guess it's just something you'd know if you'd ever seriously studied martial arts. It's qualitative, not quantitative.

          • He doesn't need to quantify his workouts. He may or may not want to--I sense conflicting desires in what MrKaos wrote. The real point of his post was that if an insurance company starts to require tracking for "discounts", then they will invariably have a policy that screws him over based on the way he works out. He would and should qualify for any benefit an insurance company would give for proving an active lifestyle, but he may not be able to provide that proof.

            • by MrKaos ( 858439 )
              Thank you pi. That was my point, as intended.

              As a bonus though some /.rs solved the use case scenario.

          • If you're planning a comprehensive fitness and diet plan, it's generally considered helpful to know how many calories you're burning.

            "Data! Data! Data! I can't make bricks without clay." - Sherlock Holmes
            • If you're planning a comprehensive fitness and diet plan, it's generally considered helpful to know how many calories you're burning.

              He wasn't talking about "a comprehensive fitness and diet plan". He was talking about the study of a martial art. The data you need for that will not (and cannot) come from an Apple Watch.

          • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

            If you train Jui Jitsu, why do you feel the need to quantify the amount of work you're doing?

            My point is they are inappropriate device for my use case. I *don't* want to be in a position where I *have* to wear one for insurance purposes to quantify the amount of work you're doing because they are inappropriate for me.

            If you need to quantify your martial arts workouts

            I don't need to, I should have been more clear - apologies. I've never used one during training, I've seen people wear them. They take them off before we roll. I wanted to collect the data because I'm curious if there is something to learn, I still haven't scratched that itch because

            • My point is they are inappropriate device for my use case. I *don't* want to be in a position where I *have* to wear one for insurance purposes

              Training at your level, you're probably so healthy that it should be pretty trivial to demonstrate to your insurance company that you're fit. Aetna covers wellness exams, and it probably wouldn't hurt to have one. If there's any question, you could always execute a gogoplata or flying omoplata on your doctor and then suggest he certify your fitness.

              And who knows, i

              • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

                Training at your level, you're probably so healthy that it should be pretty trivial to demonstrate to your insurance company that you're fit.

                Indeed. Currently I'm missing it a lot.

                Aetna covers wellness exams, and it probably wouldn't hurt to have one.

                I'm still recovering from an extended injury period. I had to have surgery on my neck (C4) and recover from a head injury. So a few more months of doctors checking me.

                you could always execute a gogoplata or flying omoplata on your doctor and then suggest he certify your fitness.

                Ouch, nasty dude, that would really hurt someones shoulder at my mass. I don't think I'd have the agility or control to pull a move off like that without it coming across as something personal. I'd more likely meekly follow his advice and go home.

                And who knows, implantable fitness detectors will come soon enough

                errrh, you are right about that. The data is interesting to

        • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
          You put on the chest-strap heartrate sensor, linked to a recording device (phone or watch) that's off on the side of the mat. Safe and easy.
          • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

            You put on the chest-strap heartrate sensor, linked to a recording device (phone or watch) that's off on the side of the mat. Safe and easy.

            Thank you for the problem solving approach. Does the sensor package get in the way when you're doing side control?

            Is there one in particular you've used when training?

            ouusss

            • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
              http://zenergysv.com/blog/deta... [zenergysv.com] The chest straps like that one have never gotten in my way. That's not the brand I use. Though they don't get in the way, I've gotten some skin irritation under them, as they fit tight and don't breathe well, so I put them on for the time needed, then remove, you wouldn't want to put one on in the morning and take it off at night on any regular basis.

              If you are wearing a gi, it will be completely unobtrusive.

              Though, thinking about wearing a gi, there are some wrist sens
              • by MrKaos ( 858439 )
                Appreciated AK Marc - someone else suggested a Garmin sensor. The one you have shown looks a lot less bulky than some of the ones I've seen which was my main concern. Thanks.
        • by trawg ( 308495 )

          I train brazillian Jui Jitsu. I wanted to wear a fitness tracker to figure out how much work I do in a session because they are very intense, the warm-ups are what most fitness places call a 'work-out'. You can wear them in the warm up however the trouble with them is they get torn off when you fight and they *can't* track the amount of work I am doing. They also injure training partners. I've considered wearing them around my shoulder or ankle however I'm not sure you can do that with them. It also give opponents a grip point that you can't release yourself from, so they are a tactical disadvantage.

          FWIW my brother says similar things about the Apple Watch for simple activities like running, cycling and gym. He is an exercise nut and owns both an Apple Watch and a more specific heart-rate tracking device (I think a Garmin?), and from his testing the Garmin seems way more accurate in terms of its readings.

          I can't remember how he tested it but I think there were gaps in the Apple Watch coverage or something. He could be wearing it wrong, but it also seems quite possible to me that its use as a fitness t

          • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

            a more specific heart-rate tracking device (I think a Garmin?), and from his testing the Garmin seems way more accurate in terms of its readings.

            Thanks for the tip, I'll check them out.

      • You won't *have* to use one, but if you want the lower rates you will.

        Why can't I just point them to Strava. When running 70 mile weeks, does it really matter how many steps I take the rest of the day? My Garmin has those stupid features available. An hour after a 20 mile run it's beeping, telling me to move again. Fuck you, it's nap time.

    • APPLE!

      I guess all those studies saying these devices are actually counter productive don't matter when APPLE!

      makes sense tho capitalism was always more important than science in the ol' US of A!

      There is a much bigger picture here.

      The damn things don't have to work at all. What they do is give teh company the ability to blame the victim when something bad happens to their health. It's a clever ploy actually

    • by EEPROMS ( 889169 )
      Yep, a watch is going to make me stop loving food and teach me how to select low carb foods. Talk about the stupid leading the even stupider.
  • by justcauseisjustthat ( 1150803 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @08:19PM (#52973179)
    I can just picture the Apple Sales Rep for that region doing the happy dance.
    • by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @09:59PM (#52973605) Journal
      I doubt it. Shat this says to me is that Apple is getting desperate to sell the watch and is offering a heavy subsidy to Aetna to make this deal happen.
  • by maliqua ( 1316471 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @08:23PM (#52973199)

    Insurance company Aetna today announced a major MARKETTING initiative centered on the iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch, which will see Aetna subsidizing the cost of the Apple Watch for both large employers and individual customers.

    The summary mistakenly said this was a health initiative.

  • by thesupraman ( 179040 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @08:23PM (#52973203)

    Giving your employer and/or health insurer access to your activity levels, location, etc..
    After all, they have only your best interests at heart, right? I am sure Aetna has no hidden
    profit based motives here..

    I can only imagine that this will work out exactly like the vehicle monitoring from the vehicle
    insurance industry - absolutely no issues there with data being used against the members...

    Sign me up! a free/cheap gadget is worth giving away any amount of my personal information!

    • and when people get hooked on apple stuff and find out how easy it is to hit felony theft levels to get in to the joint get an doctor that does more then the ER and does not say that per-ex is not covered.

    • for those of us who stay in shape, no problem

      for all you fat asses who do nothing but stream netflix or play video games and eat junk food. sucks to be you

      • by MrKaos ( 858439 )

        for those of us who stay in shape, no problem

        No, those things don't work for all of us that stay in shape.

    • Bingo, thanks for that. It's so obvious I failed to put the 2 and 2 together: insurance company promotes adoption of personal spyware devices. I will keep my distance from Aetna.

    • Because you have to charge it daily, I highly suspect 99% of these will never leave the charging station and eventually end up in a drawer.

  • so the non plan price will go way up and the cost to you will be an just an co pay. With the medicare and medicaid system paying under apples BOM.

  • Data (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @08:31PM (#52973233) Journal

    This sounds like a data capture initiative. Aetna has access to full medical records of those they insure. The Apple Watch captures enough health data continuously for them to be able to correlate a person's behavior with the amount of money it costs to cover their healthcare needs. This could be used to filter out who NOT to insure or how much more to charge a customer based on their lifestyle. It also could potentially decrease costs by helping people live healthier lives as well, but knowing insurance companies, data is more important to them than anything, and this is a tremendous source of it.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Most likely. They wouldnt do it without the incentive to profit. We are talking about the same Aetna that pulled from health exchanges.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      This could be used to filter out who NOT to insure or how much more to charge a customer based on their lifestyle

      It could, but that is no longer legal under the ACA.

      You could argue that won't stop them, but it IS illegal and there ARE penalties for such behaviour.

      • It's illegal to exclude someone based on pre-existing condition, such as diabetes or cancer, or unhealthy lifestyle, but the premiums for those people are still higher. And Aetna can still drop geographic areas if the ratios of pre-existing conditions to healthy people is higher than they want. Aetna's profit comes from paying the least in claims and collecting the most in premiums. They will try every possible tactic to increase their profits, which happens to be at the expense of the patients that receive

    • They have our full medical records and they know how much they have to pay out for each person because they're the ones cutting the checks. So why not just drop the people who are more expensive? Maybe because there are some pretty huge fucking laws against that?

      Insurance companies are severely limited on what information they can use to set rates. Thanks Obama.

    • The health data the Watch collects is sent only to the users phone. From there other apps can request access to parts of it, but the user has to explicitly grant permission to allow it - and they would first have to install an app that could even ask...

      So tell me again how it's a data collection initiative when there are so few ways to collect the data it collects?

      Maybe, just maybe, some of the fitness tracking stuff the Apple watch does is useful enough to people that it encourages healthier living. Mayb

    • Yes! I fully expect this to work the same as automotive usage-based insurance devices. The most well known in the US being Progressive Insurance's Snapshot. [wikipedia.org]
    • Soon we will have fitness geeks running around with a dozen watches on their arms.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    That's part of the problem with health insurance in the US. I had Aetna once, and they were the worst. Kept bothering for almost a YEAR after I no longer had that job and had no business with them.

    Of course, Anthem lost all my info to hackers so oh well.

    If they want to fix Health Insurance in the US, then give people the ability to choose a provider like we can for car insurance. The current system is a mess. I've passed over jobs due to the insurance provider they offer. It's one of the first question

    • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

      I just want Aetna to pay for my medication, which they refuse to do.
      I just shelled out 400$ but a months pills last night out of pocket cause they insist, after 2 years on this med, I need to go back and try the older, inferior (worse with more side effects) medication. they did this last time my employer switched to them too.

      (contract changes hands every couple years in the summer, and the contractors I work for keep changing insurance plans every January. so far I've rotated through blue cross 3 times, Ae

  • by Anonymous Coward

    This is how Timmy has changes Apple Inc.

    Subsidies.

    Will each employee be given an iPhone (6 or 7)? It only works with an iPhone.

    Actually it does not matter. The Apple Watch for Sub-Sidized Aetna smerfs will not be used at all. It is just for Apple's and Timmy's Q4 numbers to be released shortly.

    http://investor.apple.com/

  • Seems to me that this is a moderately cheap way for a multi-national insurance conglomerate to gather real-time health data on a large portion of their employees - I guess it WOULDN'T be for assessing their health issues, and 'adjusting' their policy premiums accordingly. Wonder how long it will take for a class-action suit to evolve from this tactic ? Gotta' love the freedom allowed corporate infrastructures and their legal teams within these 'free' united states !
  • by nintendoeats ( 1370249 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2016 @11:21PM (#52973895)

    That thing that anti-government-funded healthcare people always misquote about how you can control people through healthcare...this is that fear made real. Forget all the marketing bollocks, the endgame for this is that both Aetna and Apple have real time access to information about your health. It is absolutely possible for them to use this data malliciously and legally.

    This is all terrifying and I am find the fact that people will fall for it troubling.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      That thing that anti-government-funded healthcare people always misquote about how you can control people through healthcare...this is that fear made real. Forget all the marketing bollocks, the endgame for this is that both Aetna and Apple have real time access to information about your health. It is absolutely possible for them to use this data malliciously and legally.

      This is all terrifying and I am find the fact that people will fall for it troubling.

      If only Apple had a privacy statement [apple.com] so we could know if our data was protected

      How do posts like this bend up labelled "Informative" –it's total rubbish! Would the FBI et al be dragging Apple through the courts if it had such ready access to your data?

      • The issue there was not whether or not it was possible, simply whether or not Apple would do it for the FBI. Buissnesses like money, access to your personal information helps them to make money, digital devices give them access to your personal information, sometimes you may not like the way that they make money using your personal information. Please tell me which of those statements is untrue.

  • I wonder if Apple will follow the DRUG companies' playbook and jack the cost of each watch to say $800,000?
  • I thought Aetna was on the brink..

    Oh well. As to apple toys, if I want them I'll buy them. I actually have a few. No strings attached from insurers.

    As to an insurer wanting all this info on my bodily functions... fuck off. You want it, you'll get it during a normal doctor's visit, which is just a very few times a year.

    I despair for the future. If people don't vociferously deny Aetna this information, then the slope will be greased and look something like this: \

    • This might just be the last straw. My family has been on Aetna for several years now, despite their dumpster fire of a website and the unmanaged mess they call member services, they're still often the best option we have available.

      If they subsidized fitness trackers generally, or even offered an Android and iOS option, it would be great. However, partnering with Apple to exclusively subsidize Apple products is extremely offensive.

      Thankfully they announced this just before open season, let the exodus begin.

  • Company surveillance of their employee's and having them PAY THEM SELVES for the device that will continually track any movement, behavior and can listen to anything near the device. Really guys, it sounds great but this is what it really is.

  • Underneath the coat, he's got 16 watches on his arms, but he doesn't want to sell you one.
  • Do you have to actually use the watch or is it possible to sell it back the moment you receive it?

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