23 Years Later: the Apple II Receives Another OS Update (arstechnica.com) 81
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Yesterday, software developer John Brooks released what is clearly a work of pure love: the first update to an operating system for the Apple II computer family since 1993. ProDOS 2.4, released on the 30th anniversary of the introduction of the Apple II GS, brings the enhanced operating system to even older Apple II systems, including the original Apple ][ and ][+. Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters. You can test-drive ProDOS 2.4 in a Web-based emulator set up by computer historian Jason Scott on the Internet Archive. The release includes Bitsy Bye, a menu-driven program launcher that allows for navigation through files on multiple floppy (or hacked USB) drives. Bitsy Bye is an example of highly efficient code: it runs in less than 1 kilobyte of RAM. There's also a boot utility that is under 400 bytes -- taking up a single block of storage on a disk. The report adds: "In addition to the Bitsy Boot boot utility, the ProDOS 2.4 'floppy' includes a collection of utilities, including a MiniBas tiny BASIC interpreter, disk imaging programs to move files from physical floppies to USB and other disk storage, file utilities, and the 'Unshrink' expander for uncompressing files archived with Shrinkit."
Control (Score:2)
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10 PRINT "HOME"
20 PRINT "SWEET"
30 GOTO 10
RUN
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Still better. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
than Windows 10.
Re:Still better. . . (Score:5, Funny)
Only 280×192 pixels and 64k RAM, but at least it has a headphone socket.
I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 (Score:4, Insightful)
> is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters.
Wrong, there was a Prodos for the Apple][
> Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters
There was a program that piggy-backed the char display and used graphic mod to display lowercase characters, even supported accentss. Had bee used by word-processors back then. AppleWord and the Jane environment.
And Yes I affirm, there was a Prodos for the Apple][ back then.
Re:I had Prodos on My Apple][e in 1983-84 (Score:4, Informative)
Correct, there was ProDOS on Apple II. I remember using it. However according to the author himself, it was ProDOS 1.0. ProDOS 2.x apparently did not run on the Apple II. He says: "ProDOS 2.4 includes both the 6502 compatibility of ProDOS 1.x and the slot remapping functionality of ProDOS 2.x. Now Apple II programs can use a single version of ProDOS to boot any Apple II and access all storage volumes. ... For the first time, the features and improvements of ProDOS 2.x are available on 6502-based Apple ][, Apple ][+, and un-enhanced Apple //e computers."
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How about the 6502c?
[/troll] :)
That's 65c02 (Score:2)
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The 65C02 follows the same convention that the later variations of the classic 7400 series TTL glue logic used - sandwiching the technology indicator in the middle of the part number. The original 6502 was an NMOS part; the 65C02 is a CMOS version that uses less power. It also has a few enhancements.
Over in TTL land, you originally had the 7400, 7401, etc. Since then there have been many variants in the form 74X00 (or XX00 or XXX00 or XXXX00), where the letters in the middle indicate a difference of technol
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I ran ProDOS 2.x on my Apple II, it helped that it had a Transwarp card which had a 65C02 and 256 KBs of memory laid out the same as a //E. I probably had to patch ProDOS as well.
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There were at least two versions of the LC ROM and there was multiple revisions of the Apple][ Motherboards. Some had a socketed dip chip.
If you used the wrong LC ROM, you got garbled font display as the data alignment/interleave was wrong. One version of the ROM required piggy-backing a line to the IC so it could address the char values range for lowercase.
About the graphical text environment that allowed you, lowercase text and mixed text and graphic. It was brought by a software suit named like Mibbit.
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The point is, Apple still sold the same Apple II-whatever until 1993, for the same price as the day it was released with no change is specs, at all. So yeah, comparing Commodore to Apple is justified.
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A computer that came out 6 years after another one was more powerful?? I'm shocked!
I think the OP meant the price was more expensive for the older Apple computer at the time than was a newer Commodore Amiga. Personal computers had more personality back in the day (early to mid 1980s). I fondly remember developing some fairly sophisticated utilities for my Commodore VIC-20 using 6502 assembly language after typing in the listing for TinyMon and later buying the VIC-20 Assembler cartridge.
Re:Bah....! (Score:5, Informative)
I recall that when Apple decided stop selling the Apple IIe, school districts were genuinely upset because they were still using them heavily. They had very large educational software libraries that would now become obsolete as they could no longer buy replacement systems.
If the market is there and willing to pay, Apple would have been foolish to not serve it. They could have probably continued selling IIe systems well into 1995 if they wanted. It's pretty crazy just how entrenched the Apple II was in schools.
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Apple made an add-in card for Macintosh LCs (Popular in education) that let it run apple II software, and was designed to be IIe compatable. It was pretty popular and apple made a LOT of them - So many that I remember about a decade ago someone was selling off a warehouse of them for about 20 bucks each. (Should have picked one up. Now they go for 200)
Pretty clever bit of kit too. It had an interface for the older drives, and could use/create disk images as needed. (You could copy your entire library and ru
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Many schools received their apple
Damn this is inconvenient (Score:1)
My dual floppy drive Apple II plus with 128K RAM drive (172K total) uses floppies that, um, melted.
Going to be hard to update that.
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You can buy replacement blank diskettes still. (The US government has legacy systems that need them, assuring that the ancient tech will persist forever.)
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Even eligible for amazon prime shipping!
https://www.amazon.com/Double-... [amazon.com]
You may need a floppy drive to write to them on a modern system though.
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Even eligible for amazon prime shipping!
https://www.amazon.com/Double-... [amazon.com]
You may need a floppy drive to write to them on a modern system though.
No, I have tons of those, can even tune them
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I forget.. Did the apple II use 5.25" floppies, or 3.5" floppies?
I remember seeing both...
That said, here's some 360k 5.25" disks.
https://www.amazon.com/5-25-fl... [amazon.com]
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Apple II used 5.25" floppies. Mac is what forced 3.5" disks into the market.
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Wikipedia is my friend.
They DID make an 800k 3.5" drive for the apple II, but it was not popular, as it needed many expensive upgrades to work.
Those 360k 5.25" disks should work, but to use the other side you will have to cut a notch.
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Ah the Glory days. :)
I remember lovingly cutting those notches in brand new floppies. :)
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800K 3.5" drives worked fine with the Apple //c later //e's... it was called the UniDisk 3.5, and compared to a 140K 5.25" floppy it was practically a hard drive (well, a Zip Disk, if you remember those things). The //c+ had an 800K disk built-in. // line. External 800K disks for Macs, in contrast, wouldn't work on the //'s (except for the //gs).
The UniDisk was a little-bit smart, had it's own processor if I recall, which allowed it to be plug-n-play with the
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They DID make an 800k 3.5" drive for the apple II, but it was not popular, as it needed many expensive upgrades to work.
Bollocks. The Apple Disk 3.5 worked out of the box on the Apple IIgs (and was the preferred drive sold with it) and worked on any other Apple II/II+/IIe that had a SmartPort controller. You're probably thinking of the UniDisk 3.5 which was, definitely, a pain in the butt on Apple II's but had its own onboard programmable CPU that made it "interesting" for copy protection strategies (and breaking them).
Re: Damn this is inconvenient (Score:2)
Actually the Apple IIe supported both 5.25" and 3.5" floppies under ProDOS. There was another drive controller card that worked in slot 7 iirc.
I ran many a program and wrote all of my college papers using AppleWorks on my tricked out IIe.
80 column card, heh, I had a 1M memory card. I had to put individual memory chips into it. Toss in the 5.25" controller, 3.5" controller, 2 slot AppleCat 9600b modem, parallel card for my Apple Color dot matrix printer and the 8Mhz Zip Chip and I had the most tricked out I
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Initially 5.25" floppies.
DOS 3.3 and ProDOS disk were soft sectored 16 sector @ 35 tracks for 140 KB.
But a lot of games used Roland Gustafsson's 18 sector/track RWTS for 157.5 KB.
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Source (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand this is an independent developer's work. How can he name the software like Apple's product, and even print "(c) Apple Computers Inc" on it? Shouln'd that awake Apple's army of evil lawers?
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Short answer: technically yes; probably not.
Apple had the trademark on PRODOS, but it appears to have expired according to USPTO. Even then, they could probably make a case* that using PRODOS is likely to confuse consumers. The (c) notice, however, is merely acknowledging Apple's copyright over the original version, which is still valid - if anything, that might appease their lawyers and provide evidence that the developer was acting in good faith.
* they might not actually win that case - expired TMs vs goo
Re:Don't you people have better things to do? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not everything is about the newest and shiniest, AC.
Sometimes a nice jolt of nostalgia for a lost era in time just feels good. That's what this is for. Running a game in an emulator does not recreate the experience.
The whir and grind of the disk drive, the clacking of the keys, the authentic tones from the real sound chips... For a brief moment, one can feel like they were 8 years old again.
That is what this is about. Now, go take your soulless devotion to consumerism elsewhere.
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this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
supports rs232, ppp, tcp/ip, multitasking, and some other useful bits...
sure. i can think of some uses for such a system.
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No, this:
Is Your Son a Computer Hacker?
Author:
T Reginald Gibbons
Topic:
Internet Idiocy
Posted:
Dec 02, 2001
Comments:
5913
As an enlightened, modern parent, I try to be as involved as possible in the lives of my six children. I encourage them to join team sports. I attend their teen parties with them to ensure no drinking or alcohol is on the premises. I keep a fatherly eye on the CDs they listen to and the shows they watch, the company they keep and the books they read. Yo
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5 Billion a year useful enough? That's just Amazon.
https://www.cnet.com/news/amaz... [cnet.com]
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Aren't there better things to do than play with a 30+ year old computer? Don't you dorks have better things to do with your time? There is no practical use for the Apple II in the modern world, nor has there been for at least two decades. You can get a newer computer if you just leave your parents' basement.
Yes, rather than bringing a little bit of extra polish to a piece of hardware/software that's simple and elegant, and does everything that it needs to, he could be spending that time completely ripping out tech in the most obnoxious way, like developing systemd.
Stupid kids .. yes there WAS lower case on the ][+ (Score:5, Informative)
> Which is pretty remarkable, considering the Apple ][ and ][+ don't even support lower-case characters.
Then why did Apple have a "Tech Note #141" describing how to install the Shift-Key Mod ???
* https://archive.org/stream/II_II-Shift-Key_Modification/II_II-Shift-Key_Modification_djvu.txt [archive.org]
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Shift Key mod. Now that's something I haven't thought of 25 years.
Not without an 80-column card, son (Score:4, Insightful)
Without an 80-column card, those machines do NOT display lowercase characters. That is to say, out of the box, neither the ][ nor the ][+ does what you think it does. Your citation says as much.
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Apple II did not use MFM encoding.
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Commodore used 5:4 GCR. Apple used a different 6:2 GCR.
CORRECTION (Score:2)
I completely messed up the terminology in my parent post. I'll try to use standard RLL [wikipedia.org] terminology here.
Commodore 1541 used an (0,2) RLL code that expands each 4 bits to 5 bits. This is similar to IBM GCR, but the code mappings differ.
The earliest model of Apple Disk II (13 sector, DOS 3.2) used a different (0,1) RLL code that expands 5 bits to 8. This allowed 3.25 KiB on each of 35 tracks, or 113.75 KiB per disk side. A later revision of Disk II (16 sector, DOS 3.3/ProDOS) kept the 8-bit words but improved
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But the stage-0 bootloader on a standard floppy was only track 0, sector 0 - ie, 256 bytes. Granted, there was a hack that could trigger a multi-sector load on boot, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone do that (even the copy protection schemes). Everything I ever saw would do stage 0 in under 256 then bootstrap to the stage 1 loader that usually was on some part of the rest of track 0.
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>5 1/4" floppy drives had SECTORS, and they were 256 bytes each.....not BLOCKS of 512 bytes.
You're omitting several, key details:
* DOS 3.3 and ProDOS had sectors of 256 bytes each.
* ProDOS grouped *two* sectors together as a single block.
* A sector could be as long (or as short) as you wanted.
i.e.
- Copy ][+ versions before 4.0 had 1 sector the entire track which is why it was able to load so fast.
- Prince of Persia and other Broderbund game used Roland Gustafsson's RWTS18 which had 18 sectors / track --
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Good ol'e days never stopped :-)
i.e. 4am's "Passport" auto-cracking which uses the disk's own RWTS to read the rest of the disk.
https://archive.org/details/Pa... [archive.org]
Geek (Score:2)