Apple Is Making Life Terrible In Its Factories (theregister.co.uk) 297
An anonymous reader writes: Pressure from Apple to lower costs is driving worsening conditions for workers at the company's manufacturing partners.
This according to watchdog group China Labor Watch, which says that under CEO Tim Cook, the Cupertino giant has asked the companies that assemble its products to cut their own costs, and those demands have led them to cut back on worker pay and factory conditions. Specifically, the group reports that Pegatron has been passing on financial pressures from Apple by committing multiple violations of Chinese labor laws on fair pay and workplace safety.
"Working conditions are terrible, and workers are subject to terrible treatment," China Labor Watch writes. "Currently, Apple's profits are declining, and the effects of this decline have been passed on to suppliers. To mitigate the impact, Pegatron has taken some covert measures to exploit workers."
This according to watchdog group China Labor Watch, which says that under CEO Tim Cook, the Cupertino giant has asked the companies that assemble its products to cut their own costs, and those demands have led them to cut back on worker pay and factory conditions. Specifically, the group reports that Pegatron has been passing on financial pressures from Apple by committing multiple violations of Chinese labor laws on fair pay and workplace safety.
"Working conditions are terrible, and workers are subject to terrible treatment," China Labor Watch writes. "Currently, Apple's profits are declining, and the effects of this decline have been passed on to suppliers. To mitigate the impact, Pegatron has taken some covert measures to exploit workers."
see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:2, Insightful)
see what the Union free work place get's you!
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Interesting)
Where independent unions are banned.
Basically when China and Russia gave up on socialism, they created a version of capitalism in the image of what they imagined capitalism to be; not the kind of liberal society you find in advanced Western democracies with their regulated market economies and worker's rights guarantees.
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Interesting)
Where independent unions are banned.
Basically when China and Russia gave up on socialism, they created a version of capitalism in the image of what they imagined capitalism to be; not the kind of liberal society you find in advanced Western democracies with their regulated market economies and worker's rights guarantees.
Actually the Chineese Capitalist system looks remarkably similar to the American "Gilded Age." The horrible exploitation of labor during this period is what gave rise to Unions and the "Progressive Era." How things are going to play out with China's single party system is anybody's guess but so far the Ruling party has shown little tolerance for Organized labor. Russia is a very different story, their economy is based largely on exploitation of natural resources, mostly oil. As John McCain put it "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country". They have little on the way of private Capital investment, the linchpin of a Capitalist system
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How things are going to play out with China's single party system is anybody's guess but so far the Ruling party has shown little tolerance for Organized labor.
And they will continue to quash it hard. They see how unions in the west are often political organizations as well and that the most well-meaning of unions eventually become political machines. Obviously the CCP is having none of that! Even if the politics could be kept out of it, the idea of a large organization of people is reprehensible to the CCP. Turns out that if people are unified and they start to disagree with the administration's policies, unrest and upheaval are not far away. The CCP has one
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Interesting)
Where independent unions are banned.
Independent unions are not banned in China. They were before 2008, but labor rights in China have changed a lot since then. Most importantly, unions now have the right to declare strikes against private companies (but not at SOEs). These strikes are generally tolerated by the government, especially at foreign owned companies. Pegatron is a foreign company (Taiwanese).
I am skeptical about the claims made in TFA for several reasons. First, in the past, these sorts of claims have often turned out to be fabricated. Second, the only actual evidence is some photos of employees drying their clothes by hanging them up. News flash: 90% of the world dries clothes that way. Third, most labor centers in China, including Shenzhen, Shanghai, etc. are suffering from labor shortages, and if conditions at Pegatron were really bad, the employees could cross the street and get a better job in about 10 minutes.
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Interesting)
There are a variety of online articles that contradict your claim that independent labor unions are allowed in China such as this one [takepart.com], this one [globaltimes.cn], and this one [aflcio.org]. Perhaps Chinese labor unions are defined in law but protections are not enforced in practice like their environmental regulations.
Given Chinese censorship [washingtonpost.com] of news and social media it is difficult for anyone including Chinese citizens to know exactly what takes place in that country. I am more inclined to believe the accusations of dissidents than the wealthy authoritarian party's propaganda.
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:4, Informative)
There are a variety of online articles that contradict your claim that independent labor unions are allowed in China
The ACFTU is a government run umbrella organization for labor unions in China. But unions do NOT have to join. Even for unions that do join, they have the right to independently declare strikes. The links you provide point out (correctly) that unions in China face big challenges. How is that different than America, where union membership has dramatically declined, and service workers are proving difficult to organize?
These factories tend to offer better jobs than any alternative available, and many workers come from the countryside, work for a few years to build up a nest egg, and then return home to their families. The transient nature of the workforce means they aren't willing to sacrifice now for future gains.
I am more inclined to believe the accusations of dissidents than the wealthy authoritarian party's propaganda.
These accusations do NOT come from Chinese dissidents. China Labor Watch is an American organization based in New York.
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Bigger Q: Why is it we tend mostly to only hear outrage stories about factories producing Apple goods?
Are the factories building Google, Samsung & Microsoft devices so much better? Or are they doing what it takes not to tick off the government powers that be?
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Are the factories building Google, Samsung & Microsoft devices so much better?
Pegatron is a contract manufacturer, and the Apple, Google, Samsung & Microsoft devices are all made in the same factories by the same workers.
Corporatism and Facism (Score:2)
Where independent unions are banned.
Basically when China and Russia gave up on socialism, they created a version of capitalism in the image of what they imagined capitalism to be; not the kind of liberal society you find in advanced Western democracies with their regulated market economies and worker's rights guarantees.
Intriguingly it's almost the very definition of Fascism. Mussolini preferred the term corporatism. But either way it's a paternalistic monopoly on power run in collaboration with corporations for the benefit of the common good. The problem of course is that monopoly on power thing sometimes gets in the way of common good and pateralism. But in the short run it's always produced world beating results. Until he invaded Ethiopia, il Duce's italian miracle in the midst of the depression was the envy of the
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not the kind of liberal society you find in advanced Western democracies...
You probably meant: "in fairy tales".
...with their regulated market economies and worker's rights guarantees.
Do you mean those that have been steadily wiped out over the last 30 years in most western countries as a result of the fall of the USSR, globalization, lower tariffs, the WTO, privatizations, etc...? I remember when in the '80s in my country salaries were mandated to be linked to inflation, no company could even dream to outsource production otherwise it would pay a 50% tariff, layoffs were heavily limited by the "just cause" principle, the rich paid a 70% tax rate an
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
Really one of the big ironies of history is that the capitalist economies have better working conditions, a healthier environment and a broader middle-class than any communist state has ever had. And the only reason why China is doing comparatively well at the moment is because they have embraced capitalism.
Where does this leave us? Marx and Engels == complete fail?
Of course you can always argue that true communism was never actually implemented, as communist states somehow degenerate into dictatorial regimes that suppress freedoms. But perhaps the very ideal of communism is doomed to fail because something as intricately human as free trade and a market economy can only be abolished by means of suppression.
Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Maybe Tim Cook should hook up w/ Kim Jong Un and see if they can build their next factory in Pyongyang? Since his main enemy is South Korea based Samsung, the Korean standoff can get replicated in the mobile world as well
He would, except for those pesky sanctions that would cause him to be thrown in jail if he tried.
North Korea could potentially be a rather good place to find cheap labor.
Problem is... it may eventually be cheaper to buy and operate robots than to actually try and train up North Koreans. Considering their current situation, they're mostly uneducated technically, although if Apple needs a ballistic missile built, they may be a little more up to the task.
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Re:see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps both communism and free-market capitalism are only abstract ideals that can never be fully demonstrated in the real world?
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Perhaps both communism and free-market capitalism are only abstract ideals that can never be fully demonstrated in the real world?
Absolute zero Kelvin is also an abstract idea. But that doesn't mean Minnesota isn't colder than Florida. In the real world, there is no country that is completely capitalist, and none that are completely communist. But if you look at the top three capitalist countries based on the ease of starting and running a private business [wikipedia.org], they are Singapore, New Zealand, and Denmark. If you look at the three most communist, they are Cuba, North Korea, and Eritrea. Where would you rather live?
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Although I agree with the notion that they're both probably unattainable goals in reality, they don't necessarily reflect two polar opposites where the middle of the two actually is better.
The way this looks to me, we keep coming down to which large organization we want to control things. Some people want it to be the government, some people think corporations are better.
I admit in their "pure forms", both communism and the free market are supposed to dissolve into individual freedom, but no one who has ev
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Communism can only succeed in a world where everyone is selfless and will work for the benefits of others. When people act in their own self interest for their own profit, capitalism is far more efficient and a better system to minimize poverty and suffering.
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But perhaps the very ideal of communism is doomed to fail because something as intricately human as free trade and a market economy can only be abolished by means of suppression.
Marxism depends on the presence of super-abundance. Marx was anticipating the time when machines would take over essentially all human labor. He was well ahead of his time, and he's still somewhat ahead of his time even today, all discussions about UBI to the contrary.
Regardless, the necessary and sufficient conditions for Marxism have never existed. "Free trade" and a market economy are mechanisms that exist for the sole purpose of coping with scarcity, which they do with varying degrees of success. Ma
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Re: see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
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stop holding their actions up as a paradigm that you and everyone else should follow.
Can you point out in GP's post where I can find the part about "making excuses"?
He was mocking the idea that a union would help in a country that's supposed to be socialist (yeah, we all know that real socialism doesn't exist anywhere).
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There is no fiduciary duty to make a profit, this is a myth that keeps on getting told.
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Having a fiduciary duty to make a profit does not extend to or excuse a violation of law, or asking others to violate law. That's what you "fiduciary duty" people seem not to get; that duty does not supercede law, ethics or morality in any way.
Stop making excuses for the sociopaths making the world a worse place for your kids to live, and stop holding their actions up as a paradigm that you and everyone else should follow. Seriously. Just stop.
The question to answer is "What is the net-net profit" that Apple really needs? Are the directors drawing too much salary, forcing a squeeze on shareholders and Apple's suppliers? Is it time for suppliers to tell Apple that supplier owners and their employees health and basic financial well being are being impacted?
Is it that Apple sales are down, because their software quality is down? Is it that Apple is being sued by the European Union that claims that Apple evaded taxes and paid only 50Euros per mil
Re: see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
You are assuming we exist to serve an economy. But an economy isn't a living thing and that's not how it works. An economy has no rights.
The economy exists to serve the people. It has no other justification.
Not all coercion is in the form of physical force. Work for slave wages or starve, for example, is a form of coercion.
Unions are a worker's way of reminding management that without workers, they would have to actually labor themselves or starve.
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The economy exists to serve the people.
Which people?
More and more, it's the 0.1% at the top.
Unions are helpful (except when they aren't) (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do you need a union? As long as there isn't work coercion, if you don't like the pay rate, or the quality of the workplace, leave.
Unions are sometimes very good for society. Sometimes management is abusive or corrupt. Sometimes there aren't any good jobs available even if someone wants to leave. Sometimes the company is making excessive profits at the expense of workers. Sometimes unions can correct power imbalances. It's very trite to say "if you don't like the situation leave" but that's not realistic for many people. Many people cannot easily leave their job even if they want to. Unions can be very effective at correcting management abuses and protecting those who are likely to be taken advantage of. Many of the features of the modern working life exist thanks to unions including 40 hour work weeks, paid time off, worker safety laws, engineering standards, and much more.
Are unions always a good thing? Absolutely not. Sometimes unions forget about the health of the company and make excessive demands. Sometimes unions make the companies economically uncompetitive. Sometimes unions protect dead weight or problem workers who really shouldn't be protected. Sometimes unions engage in corrupt behavior.
Unions become a problem when they forget their purpose and get too greedy. Management gets unions when they forget about caring for their employees and get too greedy.
Apple should be negotiating the best rates it's from its suppliers. In fact, being publicly traded, it would be unethical not to.
Woah... hold on there. Just because a company can legally do something does not make it automatically ethical. Maximizing profit is routinely at odds with ethical and responsible behavior. The fact that Apple management has a fiduciary duty does NOT mean they have no other legal or ethical obligations. Fiduciary duty is merely one among many legal and ethical obligations of a company. In fact getting the best piece rate from a supplier often is actually counterproductive. Squeezing a supply chain for every penny actually results in unhealthy suppliers and is bad for the Apple in the long run.
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The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.
Who, in turn, will seek to please the investors.
Re: see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
"unless they are being coerced"
Funny how much like coercion an empty belly is.
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Apple should be negotiating the best rates it's from its suppliers. In fact, being publicly traded, it would be unethical not to.
No it fucking wouldn't.
You don't actually know what "ethics" are, do you?
PS: Apple also has a responsibility to maintain a good public image. Bad public image affects sales.
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The only thing a labor union would do here is to drive the business elsewhere. Either some other Chinese company would get the work, or they'd find someplace outside of China with even fewer legal protections. The old school checks and balances don't work with global mega-corps.
Re: see what the Union free work place get's you! (Score:5, Insightful)
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> The only thing a labor union would do here is to drive the business elsewhere
Sorry, you would have to give some reason to back that up. This was a short term push, exactly what a union typically has rules to avoid. If the factory wasn't competitive before this push to lower costs, then it would already have lost the work. When they attempt to cut corners in safety for workers in a competitive factory, union rules and the threat of a walkout absolutely would stop that. Moving the product to a new fa
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Companies aren't going to look at the costs of resolving each grievance. That's not the problem. The real issue is that unions pose an unknown risk in terms of production and cost. If workers do walk out and the production process comes to a halt, that creates a long list of problems for the company. That's why some companies shut down operations when a union gets voted in. It's not worth the risk to them versus moving the factory elsewhere. Those costs in moving production can be reduced by getting o
WTF Profits (Score:2)
40% profit, not 400% (Score:5, Insightful)
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Even if you add 50% for R&D you still need to do another 50% for marketing retail and other.
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I know this may come as a shock, but your numbers appear to have little basis in reality. Instead, let's work with Apple's latest financial statements [shareholder.com] and draw our conclusions from there.
Focusing on page 3, here's what we can quickly glean using some simple arithmetic with their numbers from last quarter:
- They have a 38% margin after you deduct the cost of sales
- They have a 24% margin after you deduct operating expenses
- They have an 18.4% margin after you deduct taxes
According to page 28, operating expen
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Apple are sitting at either $55.3 billion or $233 billion [investors.com] depending on whether you count long-term securities. They must be doing something right in terms of profit if they can amass that much money.
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This is for the back-end Big Data needed to make these devices perform their magic throughout the service life of the device and Apple has invested substantially in several large data centers to make that happen.
(I am going to stop here as there are additional R&D efforts that are not yet public knowledge.)
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Greed, greed, human greed. Aren't Apple the company that has 150+B in the bank. Why do they need them all. Instead of working on 20% markup they are working on 400% markup. This should be outlawed. Limiting markup to 20% is the only thing communism got right.
China is theoretically communist, it is doing a bad job of protecting its employees.
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Chinese government officials are corrupt (just like their US counterparts) and are not not doing their jobs to protect chinese workers, to keep themselves fat and rich...
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Shh you can't say that out loud, better to blame the foreign businesses for exploitation, China's mantra for almost 100 years. As every toddler learns, it's always easiest to blame someone else for your problems.
Re:WTF Profits (Score:5, Insightful)
People say "profits" a lot. They try to ignore that prices don't follow inflation [amazonaws.com], and that costs are real.
The long and short of it is, somewhere behind the opaque shroud, Apple goes from selling the last-model iPhone at a 10% profit to selling it at a 10% loss. What's probably actually happening is people just aren't interested in spending on a new phone now, and will take a low-cost phone at a bargain. Apple can't cut the current-model back to that cost, and can't even get the old-model down that low, and so is trying to hit prices that the consumer will pay by cutting costs back.
In other words: the "cutting into profits" is more like "losing business, and facing extinction." Apple isn't going to die out today; they know that if they can't keep their phones in the consumer market, they're going to die out in a decade, maybe. Strategic executives actually look way ahead and try to minimize the likelihood of such an outcome.
You're talking about a 20% mark-up, and you've managed to ignore that Apple will take a 10% mark-up but the consumer won't pay $600 for a $550 phone. If Apple wants to sell a phone like that in a market of $350 full-featured phones, it needs its Chinese manufacturers to deliver a $350 phone that it can *maybe* mark up to $400 as a premium option.
At the base, this happens when competitors are offering top-of-the-line technology at the break-out price point. 10% more for 10% more feature, until you're suddenly paying 50% more for 10% more feature; you stop just at that point, and now your next competitor can only offer a better product at 1.5 times the price. Yours might cost $400, but their barely-any-better gadget now costs $600. Even if most of your market is in mid-tier $250-$300 phones, your major competitor can't distinguish themselves as a better product without a distinguished price point: to stand apart in features, you must stand apart in price.
This is a common strategy for other reasons. You release a low, mid-tier, and high-end flagship product; then the customer sees that the mid-tier product is much cheaper than the top-tier product but almost as good, and buys the mid-tier product due to its excellent value. Without the top-tier product, they make a more price-conscious decision, determining their need rather than bare purchasing efficiency. What I've described is an extension: you ensure that the high-end flagship product of distinction is someone else's, and that it's *very* expensive by way of making the most-expensive *reasonable* product on the market yourself. Maybe nobody buys your Galaxy S7; but they're sure as hell not going to spend twice as much on a fucking iPhone.
Apple has the extra disadvantage of not selling a mid-tier product; they sell the iPhone 5 currently, which broadcasts loudly that it's an out-of-date product because it was the premier product four years ago. If it was called the iPhone 7n (new budget offering), people would perceive it as a modern, budget-friendly phone without all the bells and whistles.
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Apple have, in a way, shot themselves in the foot: They made some really good phones. So good that customers don't want to buy new ones now. There are no new must-have features in the latest model. Much like Microsoft's desperate attempt to kill off Windows XP and then Seven, they struggle to compete with their own past self.
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How much do you have in the bank? The fact you're accessing Slashdot probably puts you in the top 10% globally, very possibly the top 1 or 2%
So, given that you're probably already incredibly wealthy compared with most other humans, why do *you* want more money? Why do you go to work? Why do you make the salary or hourly rate that you do - why not do it for 10% less - is it because you're greedy?
Oh no! (Score:3, Insightful)
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Scrutiny (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm no Apple fanboy (just actually switched most my stuff away) but it's worth noting that the Register are well known for having an anti-Apple bias in their reporting.
Other companies use the same manufacturers - I would argue that consumers in general wanting lower priced tech is causing this, not specifically Apple - they just get a lot more scrutiny with being such a huge tech company.
Re: Scrutiny (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple just isn't being as innovative as they were several years ago. For quite awhile, the iPhone was the best phone out there. Apple includes features that their competitors didn't. Their products were also rock solid, and I could count on not having any problems with OS X and iOS. Their products have always been more expensive, but you could make a strong case that you got what you paid for. Perhaps there's only so much innovation that can be done with smartphones, at least for awhile. I get it that there
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Yeah that's pretty much why I moved away. It used to be that you paid a bit more to be ahead of the technology curve (software as well as hardware). Now you pay more for something prettier and with a privacy and security focus, which is good, but that's it. Dell make a nicer Ultrabook (XPS 13) and Google tends to be a year ahead with mobile stuff (intelligent photo search being one example). A classic thing that winds me up with iOS is still not having weekend hours for its Do Not Disturb mode. It'll b
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If they want to do all of that for marketing or as p
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Apple - they just get a lot more scrutiny with being such a huge tech company
And they deserve it. The company with the biggest market and the biggest volume gets to set the policies and standards the other ones simply follow. That's how business to business works and it transcends industries. e.g. only recently I was told we won't ever be seeing a certain feature in a product from a supplier unless Shell want it because they only retool their line for Shell or someone who can match them in purchasing power.
You say jump, they say we'll consult with Apple's specs on how high.
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Yeah fair point that. I'm also thinking back to when I originally switched TO Apple, and one of the justifications I made at the time was that I was paying more so they could afford to actually be better. Better policies with manufacturing, better quality control, better customer service, etc. This has proved repeatedly not to be the case.
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Chinese Gov't Games? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it possible this is gov't propaganda to benefit Chinese companies at the expense of Apple?
I'm sure a lot of factories don't follow written guidelines: it's still a 3rd world country with a lot of bribery and cruft. (Then again, I've seen abuse in USA cubicle-land also.)
There have been complaints from other co's that Chinese gov't inspectors inspect and/or publicize with double standard on foreign firms.
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Is it possible this is gov't propaganda to benefit Chinese companies at the expense of Apple?
(+1) Excellent point! I'm not denying that the conditions there are probably pretty bad. This could also be someone using LESS whitewash on the propaganda than normal. Not necessarily an Anti-Apple piece but a less Apple friendly piece.
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China aren't really third world any more - they have a capable space program now. But they have industrialised at such a rapid pace, it's created sharp differences in level of development. They've got modern mega-cities, high-tech factories and some very well-respected research done at universities - but elsewhere they've got farming villages where life has barely changed in a thousand years. The modernisation process is continuing fast.
Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
It makes sense, Apple is known to have the largest profit margin by far in the tech industry (close to 40% gross, 20% net), so there is no "room" for them, they have to pass on any drop in revenue to their suppliers. Well, I mean, there is no room if they are adamant at maintaining the largest, by far, profit margin...
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The nerve of them. They should operate like Dell, or HP, or any other company just scraping by.
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I wonder, if Tim Cook decided to double all their wages, limit them to 8 hours work a day and improved conditions all round, how much would it affect the bottom line?
Apple only? (Score:5, Insightful)
From what I understand these types of factories manufacture products for multiple customers. If that is the case then this is a non-Apple story and amounts to Apple bashing. So can anyone list manufactures other than Apple that Pegatron services?
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It's 3 years ago, but Dell and Sony were mentioned here http://www.bloomberg.com/news/... [bloomberg.com]
as well as them being a spinoff from Asus.
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Pegatron is arguably "worse" than Foxconn, but Foxconn mistreats workers too (by Western standards), and they produce all non-branded Nvidia cards. So all those 1080 Founders Edition boards are Foxconn. And probably a lot of the third party AIB ones are Foxconn or Pegatron, too. Also, motherboards.
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If that is the case then this is a non-Apple story and amounts to Apple bashing
That's only the case if other customers can match the business to business buying power of Apple. You see in this world the company with the biggest wallet will dictate the policies that other companies may be able to take part in. The sheer size of Apple doesn't make this Apple bashing at all unless you can find someone the same size with the same brand recognition that's using this supplier.
Growing Profits (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't you remember the good old days when companies would grow profits by innovating? Even Apple used to be there not too long ago. It seems the the whole world has run out of ideas and so there's one last idea to run into the ground: squeeze suppliers.
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Apple: now selling commodity products at luxury prices.
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Don't you remember the good old days when companies would grow profits by innovating? Even Apple used to be there not too long ago. It seems the the whole world has run out of ideas and so there's one last idea to run into the ground: squeeze suppliers.
To clear things up for you, the world is actually full of ideas.
Unfortunately, this world is also full of patent hoarders who have legally secured the rights to 99.999% of whatever might be invented in the future, and are also armed with dozens of lawyers just dying to prove that you merely thinking about inventing something would somehow constitute a patent violation worthy of quashing just for the fun of it, resulting in a financial ass-raping that usually torments the average victim for several years.
Bu
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
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We, in the west, can not and should not change China to what we feel is the "right" way.
We don't have to "change China" to affect change. We could just not buy from companies which behave unethically. Apple would cease to strong-arm its supplies if it became obvious that doing so led to a decrease in sales and a tarnishing of its brand name.
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If life in an Apple contracted factory is bad, it must be even worse working for lower margin companies
Why do you think other companies have a lower margin?
But you're right about one thing, this isn't only Apple. Multiple companies will use this manufacturer. The thing is when someone like Apple comes in and says jump, you say how high, and then kiss the feet of the person who gave you the privilege of jumping for Apple. When someone else comes in and says jump, you say "let me consult Apple's specs and get back to you on how high I can do it for you".
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The old "look, this is even worse!" fallacy.
Apple is a good target to pressure for better conditions. They have the money and the margin, they can afford to do it and could eat the relatively small cost. They also pride themselves on taking a moral stance on issues, like not unlocking phones for the FBI or a dead kid's parents, so working conditions should in theory matter to them. Of course, in practice, they care more when it doesn't cost anything to care.
The West has a big part to play in this. Sure, the
foxconn (Score:2)
its not just apple — i think samsung and all the other manufacturers are always being driven by the american consumer credo 'the lowest price is the law' — forcing manufacturers to pay its people the least.
so long as 'the lowest price is the law' — this trend will continue for all manufacturers.
2cents
Apples crowning achievement (Score:2)
Man you've got to be pretty bad to violate Chinese labor laws.
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They are not so bad as they used to be. If you want to see a country with a real lack of labor laws, check out Vietnam. It's the place companies move their manufacturing to when China is too expensive.
Funny... (Score:3)
"Pressure from Apple to lower costs is driving worsening conditions for workers at the company's manufacturing partners."
Funny, because I don't see their prices coming down as a result of the savings....
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Sorry, forgot my [/sarcasm] tag ;)
Social Responsibility? (Score:3, Insightful)
The main problem with our times is that so many people are willing to give a pass to those who say the "right" things instead of judging if they do them. But hey, does it really matter if they move manufacturing offshore to avoid environmental responsibility as longs they make an emoji about your favorite, pet cause?
Pegatron? (Score:2)
Did they change their name to one of the evil Transformers before or after starting to mis-treat their staff?
Not enough data to be useful, bad statistics work (Score:3)
This report is based on too little data to mean anything, nor draw any conclusions. On page 1 of the pdf, "http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/upfile/2016_08_23/Pegatron-report%20FlAug.pdf", the report says "Pegatron is one of Apple’s major suppliers, employing almost one hundred thousand workers in Mainland China". Most of the numbers in the report are based on paystub data. However, on page 5, there is a table showing how many paystubs they analysed. Over 10 months, they collected 2015 paystubs. One month, Jun 2015, they got only 4 paystubs. The peak was 1064 in Oct 2015. The average number of paystubs they got per month was 202. That is only 0.20 % of the workforce. That is not enough data to be a worthwhile statistical universe.
I have no doubt Apple is pressuring them to reduce costs. Conditions there might well be awful. However, I can't tell one way or the other from this study, because it's statistics are insufficient.
Apple doesn't have factories in China (Score:3)
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Outraged or not, clearly this is a problem. While it might not be Apple alone, China's government should really look into beefing up labor protection enforcement. If no supplier can provide the low cost, they'll have to pay more. Or find alternate places to do their manufacturing.
Re:free choice (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, they're perfectly free to go back to dire poverty and hunger if they want. No one is holding a gun to their heads to force them to feed their kids and have basic shelter.
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Yeah, they're perfectly free to go back to dire poverty and hunger if they want.
No, they're free to provide for themselves without any help or hindrance from Apple or Pegatron. If that means "dire poverty and hunger" that is only because this is the natural state of the universe; if you want anything else you have to provide it for yourself, either individually or working together with others voluntarily for mutual benefit.
If they choose to work at Pegatron they do so because, despite what anyone else might say about the pay or conditions, they feel that this is their best option. Pega
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If that means "dire poverty and hunger" that is only because this is the natural state of the universe
If they choose to work at Pegatron they do so because, despite what anyone else might say about the pay or conditions, they feel that this is their best option.
You now owe me a new White Privilege Meter. Mine just said OVERLOAD and then started smoking.
If really you want to improve their lot, the most effective strategies would be to increase competition for workers by reducing (not increasing!) the barriers to entry for new businesses
And an irony meter too. Maybe that second company who can compete with Pegatron by driving the workers wages even lower to win the contract can build it. But only if they remove pesky barriers to entry like minimum wages.
Re:free choice (Score:5, Informative)
As long as the employees are not forcibly coerced to work there, I fail to be outraged.
I really have a hard time calling these students [wsj.com] "volunteers"
Re:free choice (Score:5, Interesting)
As long as the employees are not forcibly coerced to work there, I fail to be outraged.
They may not be forced to work there but it's very possible that for all practical terms they can't leave this work. I don't know. I can't tell you whether this exists in China or not, but in Russia employment contracts are often signed. A worker may be guaranteed X years of a job at Y years of money. But here's the catch - the worker who signs it can't leave the job without paying a huge fine that is the equivalent of several years of salary. If this factory has a similar thing, they may not be able to leave. I know that in the dormitories (some recent reports suggest that the dormitories are no longer in use, but outsiders don't know why) they used to put up netting to prevent "happy" workers from leaping to the deaths out of the windows. That doesn't suggest to me that there's likely a lot of individual freedom while working there.
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"Pegatron has been passing on financial pressures from Apple by committing multiple violations of Chinese labor laws on fair pay and workplace safety."
In what jurisdiction are you free to violate labor laws so long as you do not forcibly coerce your workers to continue to work for you?
Just curious. I mean, I could improve my life immensely by breaking laws willy nilly while still not using forcible coercion. So I'll pro
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Our great allies in the Gulf States figured this out decades ago: only hire foreign workers, with job one being taking their passports. So you can expect to see more and more Nepalese, Sri Lankan, even Sub-Saharan African 'guest workers' showing up in Central Committee-approved slave factories to pass along those US stockholder-demanded savings.
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