Congressional Black Caucus Begs Apple For Its 'Trade Secret' Racial Data 337
theodp writes: In Silicon Valley this week, Rep. Barbara Lee called on Apple and other holdouts among the nation's tech companies to release federal data on the diversity of their work forces. She was with other members of the Congressional Black Caucus to turn up the heat on the tech industry to hire more African Americans. "If they believe in inclusion," said Lee, "they have to release the data so the public knows that they are being transparent and that they are committed to doing the right thing." Apple has refused to make public the EEO-1 data that it routinely supplies to the U.S. Dept. of Labor on the demographics of their workers. In the absence of the race and gender data, which Apple and others historically argued were 'trade secrets' and thus not subject to release Freedom of Information requests, tech companies were free to make unchecked claims about their Black employee ranks (Google's 2007 Congressional testimony) until recent disclosures revealed otherwise. The National Science Foundation was even convinced to redirect NSF grant money specifically earmarked for getting African American boys into the computer science pipeline to a PR campaign for high school girls of all colors and economic backgrounds.
This is Ridiculos (Score:2, Informative)
I work in Apples tech support and there are enough black folks around here.
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And seeing the typo you made in your title, I'd say there's enough Mexicans, too.
Hey man, if you can be racist, so can I. ;-)
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All races are treated the same?
When's the last time you saw a white guy shot in the head by a cop, for no reason?
invalid data (Score:5, Insightful)
I worked for Apple for a time. And many other companies. I never revealed my race on those forms and I don't know of anyone who did. I doubt there are any valid statistics to be found.
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I worked for a shop a few years back and got to know one of the HR folks fairly well. They told me that their online system would export all the candidates who applied for a position to a spreadsheet with the click of a button, so the HR manager could review them. It had a column for what the applicant selected under the optional question about race.
It would be directive at some times to not hire anyone who clicked the box for 'caucasian'. That meant the HR manager wasn't going to waste their time invest
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If it's a bunch of "did not answer" entries then why not release the data? There must be some reason for keeping it a secret, and "trade secret" sounds like bullshit.
Re:invalid data (Score:5, Informative)
Re:invalid data (Score:5, Insightful)
Race is the most meaningless metric of all when it comes to evaluating an ideal workforce. The last thing minority activists want is for competence to become the deciding factor when determining who to hire. If competence can be overridden by the color of someones skin than that only bolsters the idea that there are inferior races that need to be graded on a different scale. And justifying a bias based on race to make up for some historical wrongdoing just perpetuates injustice. Why should someone today accept reverse discrimination for the actions of others hundreds of years ago? And releasing data to be "fair" begs the question of who judges what is fair and what is not? Standing around waiting for the world to be fair will only guarantee failure propped up by an appalling entitlement complex.
wish for mod, points. Insults and harms my daughte (Score:4, Insightful)
> If competence can be overridden by the color of someones skin than that only bolsters the idea that there are inferior races that need to be graded on a different scale.
I wish I could mod this up. It's infuriating that Jesse Jackson and the other race baiters tell my daughter that's she's too stupid to compete on her merits, that everyone should give her extra points to make it fair because black people like her aren't as good as white people.
My daughter is smarter and harder working than than you, Mr liberal whiner, and therefore more competent. Se doesn't need your pity, protection, or special favors. She needs you to get the heck out of the way so she can fix the mess you made because you refuse to do simple arithmetic and planning, instead thinking everything will work out if you wish hard enough.
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I really hate to be the one who breaks this to you, but affirmative action is the reason your daughter has a chance to get into Harvard.
I can say this conclusively because your name is Morris, not Chan. If they let people into Harvard purely on the merits, then no white people at all would ever get in because when white people hear a fifth grader ask "Mommy can I skip a grade in science?" they don't go "Thank God! She's finally showing some fucking ambition!" They think "Fuck! If I let her do this she'll tr
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Race is the most meaningless metric of all when it comes to evaluating an ideal workforce. The last thing minority activists want is for competence to become the deciding factor when determining who to hire.
There are competing goals at play here. Some might want an ideally efficient workforce, whatever that means. I think the proponents of releasing the racial data are aiming for something else, i.e., for equal opportunity across races. I think both goals are arguably desirable. One of the great complications in evaluating equity is the complexity in evaluating competence and how that competence was attained. The argument behind race-based considerations is that competence is relative, and the disadvantag
Re: invalid data (Score:2)
The only people who care about this data just want to use it to harangue Apple for not conforming to some predetermined standard of workforce racial distribution.
Close. The part that's predetermined is "Apple isn't hiring enough minorities." The actual ratio or raw numbers are irrelevant. I hate Apple as much as anyone, but this is the government shaking them down.
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If you don't choose a race, the company is required to guess.
Re:invalid data (Score:4, Insightful)
They do file the EEO-1 reports. It's in the fine summary, even.
They're just not required to do anything else with it. Your obvious bias not withstanding.
Re: invalid data (Score:2)
You think the Nazis were socialists? How cute. I bet you think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democracy too.
WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple has refused to make public the EEO-1 data that it routinely supplies to the U.S. Dept. of Labor on the demographics of their workers.
How is this even a thing? Why are these filings not required to be public? We can't figure out if the government is doing its job (in this case, tracking this information) without public disclosure so we can follow up.
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How the hell is it the job of the governement to tell private companies who they should hire?
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How the hell is it the job of the governement to tell private companies who they should hire?
The government was complicit in slavery, so the government must also be part of the solution.
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Slavery was never legal in my state. Why should the federal government stick it's nose in the business of a company here?
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Slavery was never legal in my state.
Slavery was legal in northern states during the colonial period, and northern states profited from the slave trade. Northern states also profited from processing cheap cotton and other products produced in the South with slave labor.
Anyway, I don't think slavery should be the basis for prohibiting discrimination in hiring. There are plenty of other reasons, and EEO laws apply to plenty of people where are not the descendants of slaves.
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Sorry legislating equal outcomes is ridiculous.
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Sorry legislating equal outcomes is ridiculous.
EEO doesn't legislate equal outcomes. It prohibits discrimination in hiring. Many tech companies have very unequal workforces (1% black in a country that is 12% black). That is legal, as long as the process is nondiscriminatory.
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The question is, what percentage of computer science graduates are black. I can't believe that there are large numbers of unemployed black software developers.
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A few weren't even territories of the US until after the Civil War.
Nearly all Native American and Polynesian societies practiced some form of slavery. So you're still guilty.
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Your argument also begs the question.
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And just what monopoly does Apple have ?
Monopolization of hipsters with more dollars than sense ?
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The monopoly the government grant of patents gives them. Next question...
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Ah, yes, that "benefit" that appears in the U.S. Constitution as one of the (few) functions of the Federal government. Notice however that nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does the Federal government have an obligation to release private information about anyone.
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Defense of the nation is actually explicitly provided for. It's all the other crap the living document has grown that isn't
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They don't *have* a monopoly of patents. That's hyperbole.
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So, anyone who takes the mortgage interest tax deduction should also have their tax returns subject to FOIA requests since they are getting a special tax break?
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Pay attention:
An individual ("anyone") has inalienable, constitutional and natural rights to privacy.
A corporation is not an "individual", my friend. A corporation exists due to a specific statute in law and that's it. You could say a corporation only exists by virtue of there being a government, because without that statute, there is no corporatio
Re: WTF (Score:2)
To summarize: Humans have rights.
Among them, the right to peacably assemble. Humans don't lose their rights because they acting as a group towards a common goal.
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Yes, they have rights as individuals. They don't lose those rights when they aggregate.
However, I don't see how you can argue that being in a group confers any additional rights on them.
Humans don't lose their human rights. They are inalienable. A corporation can lose its charter for not following statute. And FOIA is a statute. So they can be "killed" without there being a ca
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A corporation always has owners who are human -- sometimes they are indirect. How many corporations other than ones owned by the government or entirely by an entity like a pension fund (who, has parties they have obligations to, but not real "owners") who is not owned, directly or indirectly, by one or more humans? That list certainly does not include hardly any of the entities referenced in this /. article.
When an owner dies, another owner ends up with their share. When a corporation dies, the owners are
Re: WTF (Score:2)
What anti trust rules have Apple broken and why do you think the government is treating them differently to Google, Microsoft, Intel and the RAM cartel?
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Government treats everyone who has the last name, "Inc." differently. Especially when those companies are willing to provide government with mechanisms of control.
That government is gone (Score:2)
The government was complicit in slavery,
Not the government in Washington DC. They fought a rather large war to end slavery. Perhaps you've heard of it.
Re:That government is gone (Score:4, Informative)
No, they fought a war so that federal rights > states rights, in spite of the constitution.
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Not the government in Washington DC. They fought a rather large war to end slavery. Perhaps you've heard of it.
Even taking that for granted, which as you can see from siblings to this comment is not a foregone conclusion, they were for it (or at least stood by, watched, and reaped the economic benefits for the nation as a whole) before they were against it.
Re:WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple has refused to make public the EEO-1 data that it routinely supplies to the U.S. Dept. of Labor on the demographics of their workers.
How is this even a thing? Why are these filings not required to be public? We can't figure out if the government is doing its job (in this case, tracking this information) without public disclosure so we can follow up.
So your argument is we should get to see a company's private information so we can tell if the government is doing a good job in obtaining the company's private information?
That strikes me as somewhat dubious.
I'll say that I do think there's a problem but I don't think it's Apple's fault and I don't like forcing them to reveal their demographic information for the purpose of a public round of shaming.
It's pretty obvious that all the tech companies are trying to increase diversity but the talent simply doesn't exist in the industry. There needs to be more minority and female students taking computing science in university, which means better recruitment for girls coming out of high school and better schools for minorities in general.
Re:WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
It's pretty obvious that all the tech companies are trying to increase diversity but the talent simply doesn't exist in the industry. There needs to be more minority and female students taking computing science in university, which means better recruitment for girls coming out of high school and better schools for minorities in general.
but why do there need to be more minorities and females in IT? forced diversity is blatant prejudice.
Re:WTF (Score:4, Interesting)
It's pretty obvious that all the tech companies are trying to increase diversity but the talent simply doesn't exist in the industry. There needs to be more minority and female students taking computing science in university, which means better recruitment for girls coming out of high school and better schools for minorities in general.
but why do there need to be more minorities and females in IT?
There needs to be more minorities because a society where certain minorities are largely absent from high end professions is not a healthy society. It's unfair to those minorities who become a lower class, unstable because those minorities are resentful and tend to cause crime, and under-performing because you're losing out on their economic potential.
Imagine how much better the US would be if you could transform the ghettos into middle class communities.
As for females there needs to be females because an office that is 90% male sucks for both the 90% who are guys and the 10% who are girls.
forced diversity is blatant prejudice.
How did you read "better recruitment for girls coming out of high school and better schools for minorities in general" and end up with "forced diversity"?
Norway, the sickest country (Score:5, Insightful)
There needs to be more minorities because a society where certain minorities are largely absent from high end professions is not a healthy society.,
So that means every sort of insular culture in Europe (like Norway or Iceland) is not healthy?
Perhaps the unhealthy thing is propagating a society or ideology that allows for lower education standards for those of specific races and skin colors.
If you want to end racism, stop treating people differently by race... you'd think that would be pretty obvious but a lot of people have not yet figured that out.
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There needs to be more minorities because a society where certain minorities are largely absent from high end professions is not a healthy society.,
So that means every sort of insular culture in Europe (like Norway or Iceland) is not healthy?
If they're discriminating against minorities I'd say yes.
If it's simply the case there's not many minorities, or the ones who are there aren't disadvantaged but simply haven't had the generation or two it takes to integrate into the economy I'd say no.
Perhaps the unhealthy thing is propagating a society or ideology that allows for lower education standards for those of specific races and skin colors.
If you want to end racism, stop treating people differently by race... you'd think that would be pretty obvious but a lot of people have not yet figured that out.
I think that's part of it. The other part is a lot of US schools have effectively segregated schools, and since schools are locally funded the black schools end up being extremely low quality schools immersed in a culture of underachievement and underclass tha
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No not knowing anything about your circumstance I'd say you had two distinct advantages over your black classmates:
1) Your parents had enough education to help educate you and create the expectation that you would be going to college.
2) Being of a different ethnicity you were a bit of an outsider never internalized the idea that you were part of the black community that ended up stuck in that poor neighbourhood.
I think expectations and roles play a much bigger role than we realize. Quite simply a kid who th
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I can't argue with what happened in your personal experience but from this paper I found [berkeley.edu] your experience was the exception, not the rule:
for blacks, school desegregation significantly increased both educational and occupational attainments, college quality and adult earnings, reduced the probability of incarceration, and improved adult health status; desegregation had no effects on whites across each of these outcomes.
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There needs to be more minorities because a society where certain minorities are largely absent from high end professions is not a healthy society. It's unfair to those minorities who become a lower class, unstable because those minorities are resentful and tend to cause crime, and under-performing because you're losing out on their economic potential.
Disagree. That's a false equivalence between high end professions and IT, one being a subset of another.
How is it a false equivalence? IT is a high end profession and I don't see why it should be any different among high end professions with regard to race.
If the lack of interest is there, you'll never force anything beyond nominal professional success out of your target group.
It's not lack of interest, it's kids never getting the basic skills to where the have a chance to develop a proper interest. I never had an interest in being a rock star in part because I never got guitar lessons so I knew it was never an option. If I never got good math and science training I wouldn't have developed an interest in being a programmer either
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How is it a false equivalence? IT is a high end profession and I don't see why it should be any different among high end professions with regard to race.
Because there are plenty of non-IT high-end professions that your target groups may actually want to engage in. So it becomes senseless to shoehorn people into IT as a social experiment.
With minorities, the main group in question, there's zero reason to think they'd be less interested than any other ethnicity. And I never proposed to "shoehorn people into IT as a social experiment", you're arguing against a position I didn't propose.
As for women it's possible there's some intrinsic differences between the male and female brains that make women less interested in programming. But from the women I've met in software I find this very dubious and think it's far more likely that young girls are
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This is a rabbit hole I am not prepared to explore at this time. While the US outspends nearly every Western nation in per student spending I expect you'll have (valid) observations of investment disparities among communities and resource redistribution suggestions. That said, I don't expect we'd ultimately agree on root causes and long-term effects of various approaches. Agree to disagree.
The US might spend more but heavy minority districts might need a lot more to fix their problems. For instance enough school councillors and/or guidance councillors to give every student some serious regular 1-on-1 attention. It's extremely expensive but I could see something like that making a huge difference to a lot of kids.
That's why I suggested recruiting first years into CS as a solution.
Not seeing the solution in this.
Most first year CS students are starting from scratch so girl's skills are sufficient, and if you get a fairly balanced first year they create their own healthy culture. But if it's j
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You mean like displacing white and Asian software engineers for African Americans with a substandard GPA and IQ? I've been there son, and I've gotten more than a few of them fired. When I was in the army, we had a captain (legit O-3) who couldn't use there their and they're to save his fucking life, let alone not end a sentence in a preposition. All of us white folks (and a few Latinos) had to take up the slack for his semi-retarded ass. He was ineffective, incompetent, and could have easily gotten good men (yes, men are still the bulk of combat forces) killed. Instead, he got promoted because of quotas in the army (first mentioned in the Army Times in the early 1990s).
It's kind of ironic.
I claim we should fix the minority education situation so that they can actually compete at the same level. You completely misinterpret that as an argument in favour of affirmative action... then start criticizing black people's IQ. I'll give you the benefit of assuming this was a specific scenario instead of a claim about genetics but you should understand that it's a rightfully sensitive topic.
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come to our universities and kicked the ever living hell out of African Americans
This is important and I don't know why it's rarely brought up. The people I knew in Africa (Tanzania) hated blacks from the US. They also considered them white as black/white was a money thing and not skin color.
Re:WTF Not Prejudice, Discrimination. (Score:5, Informative)
Using the definition of Discrimination, that needs to be called out for what it really is.
This Affirmative Action is by the action and expectations, is Discrimination based on race and gender. Get it right.
We need to end all discrimination.
All lives matter is correct.
All black lives matter is discriminatory because it is race based discriminatory protection by race.
United Negro College Fund is openly Discriminatory. It does by name and action, discriminate by race. Why are we allowing intentional race discrimination.
Affirmative Action is openly Discriminatory. It does by name and action, discriminate by race and gender. Why are we allowing intentional race and gender discrimination.
How long would a United Caucasian College Fund be allowed to exist if it's charter and campaign was exactly the same as the United Negro College Fund?
Help call out and end All race and gender discrimination.
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Black lives matter is simply pointing out the discrimination - that black lives appear to matter less than white ones in some cases. It does not seek to exclude white lives or ask for special treatment, just equal treatment.
On the other hand, fake claims of reverse discrimination is discrimination, because it is designed up prevent black people getting equal treatment by addressing the existing deficit.
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Black lives matter is simply pointing out the discrimination - that black lives appear to matter less than white ones in some cases. It does not seek to exclude white lives or ask for special treatment, just equal treatment.
Why don't they point out the discrimination that the whole nation goes crazy with demonstrations and public outcry when a cop kills a black guy, but when a cop kills a white guy, nobody really cares?
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We also need to demand a much stronger FOIA, with a department to process requests, not question and deny them.
Every few years we hear some bullshit about computerizing more records so that we can get our hands on them quicker, but what actually happens is it's always just another pork project.
I'm starting to think that this government really will become so encrusted that it falls over under its own girth. But you know what happens to the little people in its mighty shadow...
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And, don't forget your Medicare records when you reach that age (or get early coverage)!
And, don't forget your Social Security earnings history!
(And, don't forget the phone calls you've made in the past decade!)
You'd Have to be an Idiot (Score:3, Informative)
to voluntarily give up racial stats to politicians & lawyers.
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Well, it's the law...
Diversity? Of the CBC? (Score:5, Interesting)
The CBC, of course, has openly stated that they refuse entrance to people of other races [wikipedia.org]. So their diversity is exactly zero.
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No, they're demanding federal money be spent on "Congressional Prayer Breakfasts".
Get rid of protection to increase diversity (Score:5, Interesting)
The quickest way to increase diversity is to get rid of discrimination protection. It is very risky to hire someone from a protected group. If they are not a good fit for the company there is a substantial legal risk to firing them and overhead for carefully creating a paper trail to CYA. It is much easier to hire people from non-protective groups. If they don't work out you fire them and try someone else. Of course for businesses they like the H1-B's the most because if you fire them they get deported which really puts them in a position of power.
Re:Get rid of protection to increase diversity (Score:4, Informative)
The quickest way to increase diversity is to get rid of discrimination protection. It is very risky to hire someone from a protected group.
File this under sad-but-true. The very laws and rules that are intended to protect a group can end up causing them harm.
I'm totally opposed to discrimination in any form. Hiring based on qualifications and competence--- period--- is, in my thinking, absolutely non-discriminatory.
If there are disadvantaged groups, tackle the problem at the source, not at the hiring table. If certain ethnic groups are not being hired in the ratios that might be expected, figure out why they are not becoming qualified in the first place and look for solutions to that. Is it economics? Culture? Something else?
For sure, hiring someone who is not qualified and/or competent, just to meet a demographic requirement, doesn't help anyone and only makes things worse.
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The only place I disagree with you is in government because there is no market to correct the discrimination. Since everyone is taxed then quotas should be enforced. It wouldn't be fair or safe to have an all white police deparment (or judges) over a minority community.
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Hiring based on qualifications and competence is not discriminatory hiring. It is completely blind to gender, race, ethnicity, religion, etc. Are you just playing with words?
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The quickest way to increase diversity is to get rid of discrimination protection.
Yes, because that worked so well for the first 150 years America was a country...
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Actually it was.
http://m.townhall.com/columnis... [townhall.com]
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Yes, because that worked so well for the first 150 years America was a country...
Which is a completely specious, pointless comparison. Which you know.
So the question is, why would you compare present day things like the lowering of test standards to allow in people to meet an HR skin color quota with the exact opposite sort of segregation policy 50 years ago?
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The quickest way to increase diversity is to get rid of discrimination protection. It is very risky to hire someone from a protected group. If they are not a good fit for the company there is a substantial legal risk to firing them and overhead for carefully creating a paper trail to CYA. It is much easier to hire people from non-protective groups. If they don't work out you fire them and try someone else. Of course for businesses they like the H1-B's the most because if you fire them they get deported which really puts them in a position of power.
There is a substantial risk in firing anyone. My company creates a paper trail for anyone who isn't performing. Making a bigger paper trail for someone in a protected group would be discrimination. We treat everybody the same. Not performing? We'll try to help them. If they can't help themselves, we start building a paper trail. The people who can't be bothered to help themselves usually make it pretty easy to document their ineptitude.
I'm sure (Score:3)
I'm sure this subset of congress doesn't have more important things to do, like working on getting better schools in impoverished areas.
Apple is a for-profit corporation. They are not racist. They care about profit. If there were tons of qualified applicants of the right colors (whatever they may be), apple would hire them and profit from it. If you want a different distribution of colors of employees at apple, work on making those colors of people the best educated in STEM.
You could just try to pass a law forcing Apple to hire people they don't want to hire, but then they would probably end up like all the companies who no one cares what kind of diversity they have.
If diversity matters to you, work on diverse talent, not diverse employment. Furthermore, I would suggest the idea that diversity is more than just skin color and gender. Simply hiring people who look different doesn't guarantee that those people think differently.
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I'm sure this subset of congress doesn't have more important things to do, like working on getting better schools in impoverished areas.
I always thought this "companies should hire more African Americans" is bankrupted because many people in this demographic grew up in poor neighorhoods and poorly performing schools. By the time they are 18, they are no match to others that grew up in affluent neighborhoods (and with parents and their friends where they can learn customs and nuances of successful people in the tech industries). Of course they can start at the bottom taking courses at JC though difficult when having to work three minimum wag
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You are naÃve if you think corporations motivated by profit can't have diversity issues. Perhaps not outright racism, but for example by having poor job advertising and networking a corporation can end up unintentionally reducing the number of candidates from certain groups.
It's not a binary thing, it's not a simple subject.
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They may have more important things to do, but since schools are State-level, getting better schools isn't one of those things.
If you're concerned about the quality of your elementary/high schools, look to your State government for fixes.
God damnit (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop it with this stupid "diversity" crap already. Not everyone is predisposed to like doing the same thing. It varies by race, sex, beliefs, interests, etc. Asking or even forcing the tech industry to have the same numbers of white/black/asian/etc and 50/50 male/female employes is just incredibly dumb and short-sighted.
Why are women under-represented in construction yards? Why is there a lack of men in nurses and flight attendants jobs? You will find discrepancies like that in all domains. Some are due to male chauvinism but for the most part I think women, in general, are more interested in particular types of jobs and the same goes for men. It's not about inequalities, it's just life. Get over it.
Complaining about diversity is like women complaining that guys prefer blondes or men complaining that women don't like their fat ass. Everyone is different, the population of the planet doesn't come from a dozen pre-made moulds to help you sort them all in neat little boxes afterward.
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1) straight up racism - but we are told that corporations are greedy to a fault, not racist.
2) cultural differences - but to change this you must argue that cultural differences (aka diversity) is wrong, which is racism.
The idea that Apple or Google is racist is clearly absurd, so we are left with those criticizing Apple and Google as actually being t
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I do not know Apple's worker demographic. But at college level, we see wide variations. In CS majors, females only represent about 20% of the student population. Provided that female are also more likely socially to be the one to sacrifice their career for their family, it might be VERY hard to get to over 35% of female worker in your software business.
The issue with diversity in CS is not a college level problem. Only few female student register for the class and they do not really come to information sess
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I was in Barnes and Nobles last week and passed by the children's book section. One side was labeled boys books and had books about trains, cars and plane. The other was labeled girls books and was about princesses, fashion and poneys.
You seem to think the B&N is trying to create a divide between the genders, when in reality it is just accepting and tolerant of the differences that already exists.
Any alarm about there being both a boys and girls section at B&N is just your intolerance showing through. You seem to be unwilling to tolerate a difference between boys and girls.
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Why do the very same egalitarians that are outraged by calls for diversity and demand a "meritocracy" suddenly piss down their legs whenever they hear about companies hiring people with H1B
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I'd only call it hypocrisy if the same people who complained about H1Bs depressing skilled labor wages didn't care about the flood of "undocumented workers" crossing our southern border and depressing unskilled labor wages. Both illegal immigration AND H1B visa abuse are wrong because it makes an end-run around our national sovereignty and immigration laws. Companies or individuals that abuse these policies are benefiting from the comfort, stability, and infrastructure of being located in the US (and paid
Comment removed (Score:3)
Jobs:Do you know how many black engineers we have? (Score:3)
From Steve Jobs' Passion for Diversity [urbanfaith.com]: "Can you help us hire black engineers?" he said. "Do you know how many black engineers we have?" Before I could say anything he shared a shockingly low number and confessed how poorly Apple was doing in finding black candidates. I'll skip the full exchange, but suffice it to say, I got an intimate peek into Steve's passion and energy. He was seriously upset at Apple's efforts in that area. His last words to me that day were, "If you have any ideas on how we can hire more black engineers, send me an email."
Ha ha ha ha..... (Score:5, Informative)
Dear Apple,
Please give us the employment data that you otherwise aren't in any way obligated to, so if it doesn't show the results we prefer, we can attack you publicly.
Thanks,
Stupid democrats
Might be easier to find a unicorn (Score:2)
Looks like somebody still believes that the number one company operates on something other than merit-based employment and compensation.
Why isn't there a "Congressional White Caucus"? (Score:3)
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Same thing as the "gender pay gap". If it was real all you would need to do is start a company consisting entirely of women and pay them 1/2 the gap to attract the best talent and then undercut your cometition. So if women really make 76% of what men make for the same job just start a company and pay them 88% of what men make and undercut the competition.
Listen all of y'all it's an Arbitrage!!
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all you would need to do is start a company consisting entirely of women
It has been tried. It usually ends in catfights and tears.
Wait a second... (Score:2)
Wanna bet? I have sent out 350 resumes in the past 9 months, and I have only received one offer. I spent 5 years as a design, manufacturing, and quality engineer and no one even looked at me.
Wait a second...
The United States has MANUFACTURING? WFT?!?! When did that happen?
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Wanna bet? I have sent out 350 resumes in the past 9 months, and I have only received one offer. I spent 5 years as a design, manufacturing, and quality engineer and no one even looked at me. Tech is hiring from overseas or new graduates with NO experience and they are being worked to death. Jobs abound my ads.
Geez! Maybe you're not getting any offers because you are a belligerent asshole!
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Yes. It's not like we have had 12+ years to teach and train people in our state run schools.
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Apple is being very niggardly about this. It should just release the records already.
Hopefully you are aware the word "niggardly" has nothing to do with race or stereotyping.
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Only if you think getting up early commuting to a cubical to spend 8+ hours a day looking at a computer screen only to commute back home and do it again the next day to be a boring life.
Please don't stereotype us. (Score:2)
Only if you think getting up early commuting to a cubical to spend 8+ hours a day looking at a computer screen only to commute back home and do it again the next day to be a boring life.
Please don't stereotype us. We occasionally also do group outings to watch the latest science fiction movies, on the company dime. We are not culturally bereft.
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Your idea is like trying to put a roof on a house before you've erected the walls or even laid the foundation. If you want to see more minority representation, you're going to need to fix the underlying issues first. Otherwise you'll just en
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The goal is to make big companies with deep pockets more sue-able.
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Pretty sure they've given up on "post-racial society" and would prefer "fuck you white guys" instead.
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Do people actually believe that Blacks are not hired because of their race?
Blacks are not hired for a number of reasons. Prejudice might be one of them, but it is probably more than overshadowed by white guilt which makes companies want to hire them more than whites. The other reasons for not hiring are lack of applicants, and also the fact that hiring a minority is more of a financial liability for a company because minorities are more likely to file wrongful termination or discrimination lawsuits.