Apple De-Certifies Monster Cables After Lawsuit Against Beats 288
An anonymous reader writes: Since 2005, Monster cables have been licensed under Apple's "Made For iDevice" program, which lets cable manufacturers put a logo on their product signifying they work with Apple products. Now, Apple has revoked that certification. In January of this year, Monster sued Beats, accusing its founders of fraud. Beats was acquired by Apple in 2014, and Monster is accusing Apple of bullying them by terminating the licensing deal. Monster's general counsel said the move would "significantly disrupt Monster's business and that the two companies had worked well for years, with Monster paying Apple more than $12 million in licensing fees since 2008."
This was always going to happen (Score:3, Insightful)
It's inevitable and it's going to happen more. They are both from the dark side so who cares for any of these frauds. This type of thing will happen more often because of the IP Protection racket the government is running and also because these companies are going to increasingly run into each other due to this protection racket. The whole stack of cards is in it's last era.
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No. He just has a realistic understanding of the Cult of Ayn Rand and what that means for corporate governance.
Re:This was always going to happen (Score:5, Funny)
realistic understanding of the Cult of Ayn Rand
If there ever was an oxymoron....
Re: This was always going to happen (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:This was always going to happen (Score:5, Interesting)
Typical Anti Ayn Rand rant.
The problem isn't Ayn Rand's viewpoint, it is that reality is skewed by Corporations creating laws to benefit themselves. Thus proving that Government should not be involved in economics, since the moment it is, it is corrupted by its own involvement.
In this case, government protection racket (dressed up as IP law) has created a case where nobody knows anything. I would suggest that Any Rand would say that the three (two now) companies should sue themselves into mutually assured destruction over IP rights that are tenuous at best, letting better, more agile companies to come in and save the customers.
As far as I can see, Apple, Beats and Monster are three of a kind over priced status symbols. let them market themselves that way. And all the Sheeple will come and pay way too much for crappy products. The smart people will pay less for better products.
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Just a comment on the "status symbol" thing.
How many times have you seen a iPhone enclosed in a big sturdy case designed to protect the thing from nuclear armageddon? And on these cases, how many times do they have a big cut-out for the Apple logo on it? Heaven forbid that the person standing next to you would fail to notice the Apple logo!
No, how many times have you seen a similar thing on a case for any other phone?
This just proves that some people don't just want an iPhone... they want everybody around
This is going to be hilarious. (Score:5, Funny)
Flim-flam cable maker suing overpriced hipster baiting electronics firm over tacky rich kid headphones.
Fetch me my popcorn
Re:This is going to be hilarious. (Score:5, Funny)
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To me, they're all just a bunch of $500 wooden volume knobs.
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Both of these companies are committing fraud, somehow getting people to think that high price =quality product
Please explain how you came to the conclusion that this constitutes fraud.
who are the quality PC makers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just curious who the reasonably priced, quality PC makers are and how they compare to Apple? Also, consider after sales service.
All those that come to mind are at the same price point and quality as Apple. Actually, I can only count one: Lenovo.
I am not saying you are wrong (I am not saying you are right either), I am just saying I need something to put things into context.
Bad guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
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This reads like a Marvel comic with only supervillains in it.
My favorite kind!
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Apple, Monster, Beats, an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer... This reads like a Marvel comic with only supervillains in it.
Or the start of a joke: Apple, Monster, Beats, and an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer walk into a bar...
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One asks the another, where is your attorney? They answer: he was disbarred this morning.
Monster Business School (Score:5, Insightful)
I have always admired Monster's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a cable, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Monster Business School (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Monster Business School (Score:5, Informative)
What you get is packet loss, which either results in buffering or artifacts. An example is 'snow' on faulty HDMI cables. So there's still a case for a good quality cable that's not going to be dropping data because it's sitting on the edge of what quality is acceptable.
Where some manufactures enter the realm of fantasy is when they start to say things like the colours will look better. They won't. If the all the data is getting through a $10 and $3000 cable will look alike.
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I would also question wether or not a rusty coat hanger has the appropriate 110-ohm termination in the AES spec... (or 75 in the case of SPDIF).
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Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Insightful)
Careful: if the connectors on your equipment aren't gold-plated, then it's those hard-to-replace connectors that will rust instead of the easily replaced cable.
What you really want is a connector plated the same as the connector you're connecting it to. If it's tin-plated, use a tin-plated connector. If it's gold-plated, use gold. What I don't know of is any tin-plated cables which include a sacrificial zinc anode. In motoring (and presumably other places with metal bolted to metal) we use zinc anti-seize where dissimilar metals meet because it gets eaten up first, which is handy. I'm not sure if that applies to tin, though. Also in motoring, tin is what's used as an intermediate between steel or copper and aluminum.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Funny)
That's why I make sure to use dust-plated connectors.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah the big problem in bicycles is steel frames with aluminum seat posts or stems (where the handlebars attach to the frame). Those things are often assembled without any kind of anti seize or grease and are known to basically get "welded" together from corrosion. I've seen a few that were impossible to remove.
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I've seen a few that were impossible to remove.
I'd try lye, it'll eat the hell out of the Aluminum. Or if you're trying to get back the Aluminum, washing powder and a battery charger will run the rust reaction in reverse. I imagine it's horrible to do that with Cromoly though. If you do it with stainless the results are horrendously, illegally toxic.
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I've seen that also. In the real world, if your bicycle's aluminum seat post got fused to your steel bicycle's downtube, you have had your bicycle for too long.
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What's "too long"? Still working isn't too long.
Since when is owning something for an extended period of time "too long"?
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They are other ways to prevent corrosion too. However the fact that you are plugging in these expensive cables that will not rust, into connectors integrated into more expensive equipment that will rust.
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Nickel plating peels under mechanical stress. Gold and silver do not. They wear through because they are soft, but they don't flake or peel. Electrical contacts are spring-loaded to retain a good interface, and nickel is about the last thing you would want to use there.
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electroplating doesn't flake, it's electrically bonded and a few tens of atoms thick.
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Even for analog cables, there were plenty far cheaper cable brands that offer the same or better measurable quality.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Informative)
There are still plenty of analog connections around. Headphone jacks, RCA outputs and so on. None of them sound any better through Monster cables than through cheap dollar store cables, and they never did.
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2... [blogspot.ca]
Note that by far the largest difference was stereo crosstalk, and that has a lot more to do with cable geometry than with price or "quality". You can make any cable measure exceedingly low crosstalk by physically separating the wires, but no one can head crosstalk at -84dB anyway, so it's pointless.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not a fan of MC, but I will say this: while the MC's are overpriced at least the shielding is reasonable. hum can be a problem with poor shielding and the MC's that I used to use, years ago (car audio ones with foil wrap) were quite good for keeping hum low. dollar store cables have the thinnest shielding and usually poor molding so they break easy.
once you get to minimum quality standards, there's little diff other than being able to see numbers change in high priced test gear. but dollar store is really not what you want to compare anything to. even monster is better than that ;)
their prices are outrageous but the quality is acceptable. not worth the money but that's not the same as saying that they are made like dollar store cables. they definitely are not.
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You can definitely go cheap enough on cables that it's a real problem. My favorite is pulling out a coax cable and having the center pin break off and get stuck in the equipment. Paying $5 for an analog cable is wise, IMO. And if you want a 50 foot HDMI cable, the cheaper ones aren't to spec (you have to use a heavier gauge wire for long runs).
Sure, there's no need to pay Monster's crazy inflated prices, but that doesn't mean there's no downside to the cheapest possible option.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is why radio hams, a self-selected group of the technically knowledgable that routinely deal with analog signals orders of magnitudes higher frequency than audio signals, are so fanatical about solid gold plated oxygen free copper directional cables. Not.
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Aside from noise rejection and the lack of impedance matching coat hangers work perfectly well even for analog gear as input patch cables (but due to sensitivity to impedance differences you wouldn't want to use in place of phono patch cables). They work supremely well as speaker cables, providing the gauge is heavy enough for the current (so driving the speakers at a Pink Floyd gig may not work out too well but for the average bar, wedding, etc. they would be perfectly fine).
Benefits of fine strand OFC cab
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* They handle repeated stress better (so they're better for speakers mounted in doors)
Ugh, yes. I need to go into my Mercedes' doors to fix the wiring to the windows on the driver's side because they didn't use particularly fancy wiring. I'll be using some silicone-jacketed stuff intended for R/C packs, because I have it already and it should last longer than the rest of the car.
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How do you make a patch cable out of a coat hanger? Surely you need two conductors, one for signal and one for ground.
Same with speaker cables, you would need at least two coat hangers, but at least you normally have terminal posts. Somehow your patch cable coat hangers would need to get the inner and outer connectors of a typical RCA jack or both contacts in a 6.5mm jack.
Gold plating is worthless (Score:2)
Gold plating connectors is worthless. Gold is super soft to begin with and any time two surfaces scrape there goes the few microns of coating. There is a reason most military gear is silver plated.
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A gold alloy is harder, so it is more resistant to insertions.
There are places where this comes in handy. For example, some PCs have an internal USB cable which plugs into the motherboard, then goes to the front ports. The problem is often the contacts corrode over time, which gives a spotty connection after a while. This is why I wind up testing a faulty USB device by plugging it directly into the motherboard's ports before tossing it altogether. USB connectors are generally made to handle insertions a
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they had circuit city or best buy compare them unf (Score:3)
they had circuit city or best buy compare them unfairly on tv with a monster cable running ESPN HD next to one with out a monster cable on ESPN SD.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:5, Funny)
The guitarist in a band I've engineered for is stone deaf but thinks of himself as an audiophile. He can't hear the hum coming out of his guitar amp, but swears by these overpriced interconnect cables as well as the special acoustic pad that he puts said humming amp on. One night I pointed out one of the XLR cables to him and said, "You see that $10 cable there? Whatever you're listening to went through one of those." He didn't say another word to me all night.
Re:Monster Business School (Score:4)
Re:Monster Business School (Score:4)
There is a point with audio that there is a split between "pro audio" (as in flat response monitor speakers), versus "audiophile audio" (speakers that have Bog knows what for response levels, but they look cool on their marble stands.)
While some cable making companies tout things that can't be quantified, there are items that can be, such as a proper gauge of wire, well soldered fittings that are properly shrink wrapped to prevent oxidation, good insulation, and other basics.
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At that moment, you surely felt better than him, right?
Really, I mean, what's wrong with leaving people to their own harmless opinions, no matter how wrong?
It is not harmless. He is hurting his own economy for one thing. Secondly, if he is performing and is wasting money on useles crap instead of fixing the broken equipment that is causing bad audio, the audience suffers too.
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but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.
What you describe underpins entire business models that go way outside of audiophile technobabble and into homeopathy, acupunture, and basically a whole field of snake oil products that improve your well being, protect your car from rust, and make everything in your house just that much better. Personally I'm still congratulating the person who managed to sell "organic" water in our supermarket.
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I have always admired Monster's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a cable, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.
Monster cable is bargain basement compared to the bill of goods that many "audiophiles" are buying nowadays... To the audiophile, this $10,000 Ethernet cable apparently makes sense [arstechnica.com]. At least Ars had the sense to add this sub-headline: "In reality, one-way silver cable does nothing but make "audiophools" poorer.".
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Yeah, but in October they have PUMPKIN FLAVORED moldy dirt!
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
The only area where it seems to matter (Score:3)
Is power supplies [gizmodo.com], because of the fire hazard.
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Right, because nobody has ever faked those.
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does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore? I could see it being a concern for the average consumer about a decade ago but so many products, uncertified mind you, exist for the apple to channel audio from soundcard to headbone that the logo itself seems of little merit.
I only really worry about not using knock off cables/adapters when it's connected to 110 volt power or higher, cheaply made cables that break easily are also easily replaced; cheaply made power adapters without proper insulation and air gaps can cause fires and electrocutions. That being said I use Apple EarPods because I find them comfortable.
Re:does marketing hype matter? (Score:4, Informative)
I only really worry about not using knock off cables/adapters when it's connected to 110 volt power or higher
That's misguided AF. Back in the olden days when HDDs were stupid I had an RLL disk literally burn (with black smoke and scorches, and probably flames too) a trace off its PCB when the spindle stuck (SEIZEGATE FTW)
Low voltages are perfectly capable of starting fires.
Re:does marketing hype matter? (Score:5, Insightful)
It matters, in some cases, such as their sync cables. Apple's walled garden is so high most people buy Apple's peripherals just to be sure they'll work.
I'm still shocked, to be honest, that Apple uses standard headphone jacks though.
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At $25 for an official 3 foot Apple Lightning cable, there's no way I'd buy one. I got mine at MonoPrice, for around $9. They seem to work well enough. Even $9 sounds a little pricy if you ask me, but I'm not about to risk my expensive devices on something cheaper. The real problem is that the official Apple cables are so prone to breaking. The Monoprice ones are built much better and have lasted me way longer than the original Apple ones did.
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Re:does marketing hype matter? (Score:5, Informative)
These programs tend to go well beyond just a sticker, though. If you're not part of this program, you just won't be listed in the store, or carried in Apple's physical stores. If you're not 'certified' for Apple devices, your product won't be in the "Apple Accessories" aisle at other retailers. And if you're not part of the MFi project, then at least in theory Apple could simply block your accessory from working at the lightning interface level.
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Its all about the image, and in this case that image is perpetuated by pop culture and not dictated by apple.
Not quite. It's about quality, or rather the impression of quality. I mean these are the headphones that Skrillex uses and the headphones that Dr Dre has his name on. They must be top quality professional gear and looking good is just a bonus. I mean just look at the website. The "Beats Pro" are "The Headphones Used To Mix In Every Major Studio." so it must be absolutely awesome.
That is the mind set of a lot of people. They buy Beats because they want something better, and they don't know any better unless
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So, a good move then (Score:5, Informative)
Monster's general counsel said the move would "significantly disrupt Monster's business and that the two companies had worked well for years, with Monster paying Apple more than $12 million in licensing fees since 2008."
So, this is a philanthropic move from Apple, then. Monster are bottom-feeders that prey on the naive, and the world would be a better place without them.
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But then again so is apple.
Re:So, a good move then (Score:5, Funny)
Apple only charges around 2-3 times more for a cable than the competition.
Monster's level of bullshit is another sport entirely.
Buying genuine Apple stuff is like buying parts from the dealership for you car. More expensive, and may or may not be any better than what you can get elsewhere.
Buying anything Monster is like buying a bottle of $100 window cleaner that has specially aligned atoms that will reduce wind resistance and increase speed on your car.
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Apple only charges around 2-3 times more for a cable than the competition.
Yes, but they bought Monster's headphone brand and are now selling "Monster" price and quality headphones..
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I admit, I have to wonder if Apple's markup is to encourage manufacturers to make cheaper cables.
I can buy MFi certified cables from Monoprice or even off of Amazon, and they're much cheaper than Apple's stuff. It's certified, so I'll trust it not to light on fire. If Apple made cables and sold them at cost, which they could surely do, they'd price everyone else out of the market. Apple has economies of scale that these other guys can only dream of.
So Apple marks up the prices on the adaptors, takes the abu
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I like saving money same as anyone else, but to my experience an Apple cable stands a better chance of actually fitting the socket and not breaking after 2 months of occasional use.
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> a bottle of $100 window cleaner that has
> specially aligned atoms that will reduce wind
> resistance and increase speed on your car.
link please?
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I am not talking about just cabled, I am talking about in general, apple products are vastly overpriced for what they do, and the quality that they give.
I buy mostly Apple products. I'll let you in on a secret: I do it because the stuff tends to just work without any bullshit. Honestly, 20 years ago I lived for the challenge of making stuff work. Now, I have bigger fish to fry and hobbies that are more fun.
So, yeah, I pay extra when I buy stuff from Apple. Extra money, that is. Well, "extra money up front". It saves me money in the long run as my time is my most valuable asset (even when monetized) so it's worth it.
Poor little monster (Score:5, Informative)
This is a great read - a small-time cable maker basically telling monster suck it after they sent their default "infringement" claim. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/... [bluejeanscable.com]
Sometimes (Score:2)
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It's okay to hope neither side wins. May they spend many years in litigation...
The lawyers always win.
Does Monster make overpriced watch bands? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands? (Score:5, Funny)
Sloppy seconds, you mean.
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I'll try to get by (Score:2)
Luckily I have shitloads of old appliances that I can cut the power cords off of and a bag of wire nuts.
Monster accuses Beats of fraud? (Score:4, Funny)
The company whose entire business is based on selling overpriced cables to phools is accusing another company of fraud?
$12 million... (Score:2, Funny)
so that's like what? 6 cables?
Trendy Crap (Score:2, Insightful)
Beats are crap, we all know it, and that same $300 could be better spent on a Pair of AKG's or Sony's etc....
The Kids will buy what looks cool and trendy, and at least we can then tell who's got Bling and who's got IQ.
12 million? (Score:3)
12 million in licensing fees? so they only sold 12 cables in that time?
Bring out the stickers and crying hipsters. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh poor Monster (Score:2)
Someone might not want to buy their $5 for $50 anymore! Boo hoo!
"Bullying" (Score:2)
In January of this year, Monster sued Beats, accusing its founders of fraud....Monster is accusing Apple of bullying them
I think the term you are looking for here is psychological projection [wikipedia.org]
Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.
Solution! (Score:2)
Apple buys Monster and continues selling overpriced cables, as usual, except now with a "Monster Beats!" brand on them! :)
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Well, that's one way to interpret. But it's complete bullshit.
So, the founders of Beats squeezed out Monster on the way to selling themselves to Apple.
But
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Your second quote has nothing to do with the first, aka your premise.
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...
Monster sued Apple (via Beats) first. Thats hardly Apple stabbing Monster in the back.
This is pretty typical business, if you want to start a lawsuit against me, I promise you our business agreements and relationship is over. I don't think I've ever seen a contract that didn't explicitly state that even.
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You keep asserting things as facts which actually aren't:
So, if they filed suit in January, they sure as hell didn't sue Beats before it was owned by Apple.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Basically you're full of shit, and keep claiming things as facts which are absolutely not.
Do you work for Monster? Or are you just a m
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Technically apple did not own beats at the time of the lawsuit being filed.
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If they wanted standard cables and peripherals, they wouldn't be buying Apple stuff.
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Monster Cables are Great (Score:3)
They look great, they feel great, they work great. They have a shitload of strain relief and the really fancy-pants ones have this great braid on them that makes them slide across one another easily, and protects the cable from abuse. And as soon as I see them in the bin at a discount shop because nobody wanted to pay full price for them, I snap them up for pennies on the dollar. I have a whole bunch of Monster cables now, they really are great... except that some of the really pretty ones have pretty lame
Re:Monster Cables are Great (Score:5, Funny)
fancy-pants ones have this great braid on them that makes them slide across one another easily
I was going to ask what exactly are you doing such that 'sliding across one another easily' is important but then I decided that was probably not a good idea.