Investigation: Apple Failing To Protect Chinese Factory Workers 201
mrspoonsi writes with the findings of an investigation into working conditions at a factory that makes Apple products. Poor treatment of workers in Chinese factories which make Apple products has been discovered by an undercover BBC Panorama investigation. Filming on an iPhone 6 production line showed Apple's promises to protect workers were routinely broken. It found standards on workers' hours, ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were being breached at the Pegatron factories. Apple said it strongly disagreed with the programme's conclusions. Exhausted workers were filmed falling asleep on their 12-hour shifts at the Pegatron factories on the outskirts of Shanghai. One undercover reporter, working in a factory making parts for Apple computers, had to work 18 days in a row despite repeated requests for a day off. Another reporter, whose longest shift was 16 hours, said: "Every time I got back to the dormitories, I wouldn't want to move. Even if I was hungry I wouldn't want to get up to eat. I just wanted to lie down and rest. I was unable to sleep at night because of the stress."
But (Score:3, Insightful)
I can still have more iPhone? The workers are there to do work. I pay.
Pegatron vs Foxconn (Score:5, Informative)
I used to work in China, in tech business. I have been to several Pegatron's factories in China as well as to several Foxconn factories
All the factories that I have visited are, to put it mildly, LABOR CAMPS
But there is a difference
The factories run by Foxconn, the condition has improved. While it's still "labor camp" like, at least it is humane --- and Foxconn having been scarred by the exposure (of suicides and whatnots) they are at least playing by the rules
Not so in Pegatron factories
Conditions there are way beyond inhumane. They lock workers inside a room, with few ventilation, and ask the worker to apply strong chemicals, chemicals that can destroy body cells if inhaled, that are carcinogenic, onto the devices that they are working on
Many ex-workers from Pegatron develop all kinds of ailments after being exposed to those chemicals, and there have been numerous protest against Pegatron, in many Chinese cities
I am not saying that Foxconn is an angel, no, they run labor camps as well. But at the very least, they are toeing the line, for the moment
Re:Pegatron vs Foxconn (Score:4, Insightful)
All the factories that I have visited are, to put it mildly, LABOR CAMPS
No. There is one HUGE difference between these factories and a labor camp: In a labor camp, you can't say "I quit" and walk out.
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If I understand the situation correctly, workers from other provinces require a permit to live in a different part of China. And that permit is most likely tied to their employment. So it isn't the same as you or I walking out on our employer - the choice is made a lot more difficult for them.
Re:Pegatron vs Foxconn (Score:5, Informative)
If I understand the situation correctly, workers from other provinces require a permit to live in a different part of China.
No, this is wrong. No permit is required. If you move to a different province, you cannot use social services, such as hospitals, subsidized housing, and public schools, but you can live and work there. Use of the social services is NOT tied to employment. Instead rural workers just get screwed and there is nothing they, or their employer, can do about it. They pay taxes to support services they cannot use. Furthermore, this status is hereditary, so even if someone is born in the city, they still are considered "rural" if their grandparents lived in the countryside in 1949.
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Since 2003, you no longer get beaten to death in a jail cell for failing to show one on demand, and obtaining one is easier and less expensive, but the temporary urban residence permit still exists. It seems I was wrong about them being tied to employment though.
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Sure you can. You'll be shot if you do, but that doesn't make you any deader than starving to death after walking out of these factories would.
Rule people through direct violence, and you'll look like a villain. Rule people through only letting them eat if they do what you want, and you'll look like a good capitalist.
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You'll be shot if you do
Nobody in modern China has ever been shot for refusing to work in a foreign owned factory.
starving to death after walking out of these factories would.
You apparently know absolutely nothing about the labor market in Shenzhen. There are rows upon rows of factories, and ALL of them are hiring. Available workers are scarce, and wages are rising quickly. A worker can quit and find a new job as quickly as they can ride their bicycle to the next factory (about five minutes).
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Perhaps this explains.
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I'm not saying you're lying ...
I think it is safe to say he is lying. He is posting as an AC, and accusing Pegatron of blatantly committing felonies, in front of foreign witnesses, based on no evidence whatsoever. I don't think so. They may be evil, but they aren't stupid.
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Why are you shilling for the Chinks?
Pegatron is not a Chinese company.
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Taiwan is part of China. 10,000 years of history can't be wiped away
Taiwan was not incorporated into China until 1683. From 1895 to 1945 it was Japanese, and from 1949 till today it was de facto independent. So it spent only about 200 years as part of China, not 10,000.
Why Apple? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is it Apple's fault or Apple's problem? First of all these are Foxconn workers. Secondly Foxconn manufactures hardware for a lot of companies, not just Apple.
Re:Why Apple? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems I should at least read the summary before commenting. Replace Foxconn with Pegatron in my comment above, but the argument still stands.
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Of course, "The United States" was *also* "built on top of slavery conditions", but you can't make an omelet and so on...
Re:Why Apple? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Apple made a statement that they would not do business with companies that acted like this, and yet, here they are doing business with companies who act like this.
To think Apple has no influence in this situation is absurd.
Fix it teechnically. (Score:3)
Hey apple, use your own products to fix this mess.
RFID fobs on workers, computers to monitor working hours, and computers to mandate rest times etc...
Mangers that over work people, SACKED!
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Unless that RFID tag is implanted in the worker, that system is going to get faked out, too.
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Godammit.
Snape kills Dumbledore!
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Hey apple, use your own products to fix this mess.
They did... all of their products are completely sealed and unserviceable. Otherwise you'd be opening them up and finding all of the "Help! I'm trapped in a Chinese iPhone factory!" messages inside.
Does Samsung or Google have any influence? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most phones that are manufactured in these places are Android phones--yet we only here about Apple failing to protect workers. Cisco, Nintendo, Sony, Amazon, etc. all use these companies (Pegatron, Foxconn, etc.).
But it's okay because those companies never pretended to try to enforce higher standards--that's what you're saying, right? with a straight face and everything.
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Most android phones are cheap (with some obvious exceptions that are a relatively small part of the market). People expect cheap products to be exploitative. When they pay more, they expect it to be less exploitative (even though in reality many expensive products are exploitative, like diamonds). As the by far most prominent expensive luxury phone, Apple naturally gets most of the flack. People see how much they're paying and the huge profit margins and feel that some of that profit should be used to bette
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Samsung has had criticism as well. I believe LG does a lot of manufacturing on Korea where conditions are better.
You are right that Apple does get singled out, but Apple is also the most expensive, highest profit margin and likes to promote its wholesome and ethical image. For example, Jobs wouldn't allow any adult content on the app store. Apple has said it will deal with this problem, but hasn't delivered on its promise. Criticism is fair.
The criticism is fundamentally dishonest. (Score:3)
You and everyone else knows it--the mental contortions required by Android fans to criticize Apple for something that is worse in Android-land is transparent and ridiculous.
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What's ridiculous is thinking Android users don't have a choice when it comes to ethics... http://www.fairphone.com/ [fairphone.com]
At least it is something. And while you're reading that page I'd like to remind you of Apple's position as the both the largest and /richest/ smartphone vendor.
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What's ridiculous is thinking Android users don't have a choice when it comes to ethics... http://www.fairphone.com/ [fairphone.com]
Well, sure. You can buy a phone with a high price, low specs, and long shipping times. 20,000 people have done so far.
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You obviously didn't read the website.
But I get your reasoning... Shiny pocket computers are more important than dealing with servitude.
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You obviously didn't read the website.
But I get your reasoning... Shiny pocket computers are more important than dealing with servitude.
I don't have to read the whole website to see that all I said was correct. What is your fucking point anyway? That you are morally superior to me because you have a fair phone - no wait, you said you could get one if you wanted to.
Me, I don't have any shiny pocket computers unlike you hypocrite. Fuck you.
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You obviously didn't read the website.
But I get your reasoning... Shiny pocket computers are more important than dealing with servitude.
I don't have to read the whole website to see that all I said was correct.
My hero!!! His Xray vision even works over the Internet.
What is your fucking point anyway? That you are morally superior to me because you have a fair phone - no wait, you said you could get one if you wanted to.
My point (if you read it) is that choices exist out there that the Android market at least makes possible.
Me, I don't have any shiny pocket computers unlike you hypocrite. Fuck you.
You presume too much, kemosabe... I'm going on 8 years with the same dumb-phone now.
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If the article was about any of those companies I'd be decrying their actions too. Apple tried to make us believe they we going to do better and I think many of us believed that. They lied.
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But I agree it's them (Apple) and everyone else who is to blame. The investigation is _perhaps_ unfair in that it doesn't even mention other manufacturers, but I don't think it's unreasonable to at least start with Apple. Maybe they're investigating them alphabetically?!
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You must admit, in fairness, that those teeth are very white and shiny with nice rounded corners.
You have selected....... (Score:5, Insightful)
You have chosen to rationalize the exploitation of Chinese workers, probably using a product you or your employer couldn't afford to purchase if manufactured by someone that shared your pleasant lifestyle. Your rationalization is characterized by one or more of the following possible memes;
[_] Making iPhones in a Chinese factory is better than being a Chinese peasant
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much if I had to pay my fellow citizens to make them
[_] iPhones/Pads would cost too much given environmental regulations I vehemently insist on for myself
[X] All the other manufacturers are doing it too
[_] Some/Many/Most Chinese workers appreciate 70 hour weeks and breathing my aluminum dust
[X] It's not Apple, it's Foxconn
[_] It's not Apple, it's the Chinese government
[_] They should quit if they don't like it
[_] It's just capitalism at work
[_] It's just communism at work
[_] Apple's disposable workers are paid better than non-Apple disposable workers
[_] Apple's auditors didn't find any serious issues
[_] Some day the Chinese will be too wealthy to exploit
[_] Your Android is Foxconn too
[_] You're an Apple hater using Apple as a scapegoat
[_] I also work 60/80/100/120 hour weeks at my IT job
[_] Apple designers are in the US
[_] The US did the same thing to the British
[_] The US had slaves once too
[_] The US has prison labor today
[_] It's up to the Chinese to stand up to their oppressive government
[_] There are lines of willing workers outside Foxconn factories
[_] If any company were to stop the exploitation, I really think it'll be Apple
[_] Your free Linux runs on Chinese hardware too
[_] Foxconn workers think they have it great, so it's ok!
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than Chicago's murder rate
[_] Foxconn worker suicide rate is lower than China's suicide rate
[_] We can't pollute the whole world!
[_] Half of all US households have an Apple product
[_] If we don't exploit them they'll never develop
[_] The suicide's families get the insurance money
[_] You're posting from a macbook/iphone/ipad right now
[_] There are suicide nets on American bridges
[_] Interns in the US don't get paid
[_] They don't beat the workers, apparently.
[_] Why is this news? We expect this from China.
[_] It's their country; we have no right to judge.
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I would like to see a cultural shift in business where instead of the company that designs the product taking a gigantic slice and the company that runs the retail store taking a giant slice, the manufacturer that invests the time and effort into making the product would get a much, much greater share. If the manufacturer was guaranteed 10% of the final retail price per unit on any product produced, no matter where it was made, we could actually demand a stop to human rights violations in return for paying
If the manufacturer added more value... (Score:2)
then they could charge more for their services. If the company that designs and retails the product is getting overpaid for their value, then a competitor will undercut them and they'll lose in the market.
That's how the free market works--no other economic system has ever come anywhere close to mimicking the efficiency of free-market capitalism (when there is actually competition as there obviously is in the electronics industry)--but hey, yeah, maybe you'll invent a new economic system within a Slashdot co
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And competition is not, by definition, efficien
You are overwhelmingly wrong. (Score:2)
Competition benefits the consumer directly. Free-market capitalism is not equivalent to unconstrained (i.e. stupid) libertarianism--it only works properly with laws/regulations setting boundaries. Laws need to: (a) prevent the abuse of monopolies, (b) protect workers, (c) prevent collusion, and (d) ensure some limited monopoly on new technology to create an incentive for R&D.
There are some industries where the laws aren't working properly or the nature of the industry prevents competition (like cable tv
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I'm a fan of the free market and not proposing a different economic system. I would just like to see ethical business practices all the way through the supply chain become a voluntary norm accepted and encouraged in the business community. My belief system just doesn't allow for exploiting anyone just because they are willing to be exploited.
Wow, you've really turned a mirror on all of us. (Score:2)
and we are all humbled before your uncompromising integrity.
Do you have a solution to the problem to propose?
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Do you have a solution to the problem to propose?
Fairphone for starters:
http://www.fairphone.com/ [fairphone.com]
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For computer equipment, buy used and learn how to repair it. It's not a perfect solution since no electronics are made without slaves, but it's better than Feeding the Beast directly. It honors the people who bled for your equipment by not throwing out their labor when it has lost its shine.
That's pure whitewashing. Like saying that if you don't buy endangered species souvenirs directly from the poacher makes it okay.
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probably using a product you or your employer couldn't afford to purchase if manufactured by someone that shared your pleasant lifestyle.
That isn't the case. Profit margins on Apple phones are some of the highest in the industry. Other manufacturers manage to make cheaper phones under better conditions, e.g. LG which has factories in South Korea or Sharp who have factories in Japan.
Apple could choose to make less money and pay more for manufacturing, which in turn would allow for higher wages and better conditions, without raising prices. It appears to be a case of working conditions shareholder value.
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Other manufacturers manage to make cheaper phones under better conditions, e.g. LG which has factories in South Korea
And in China. And problems with the environment and working conditions world-wide (and most certainly in South Korea too) http://www.corp-research.org/LG [corp-research.org]
FTFY:You have selected to Boycott the Poor...... (Score:2)
Listen, I hesitate to post this. I'm friends with a lot of antiglobalists and absolute believe you mean well. But exaggerating an perpetuating racial stereotypes, and pretending that Chinese (and African and other non-OECD) consumers are not the PRIMARY beneficiaries of the industrial revolution ignores history by pretending language and race make our own industrial adolescence unique.
"You have chosen to rationalize non-tariff trade barriers to free employment of Chinese workers, probably to protect mar
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Re:You have selected....... (Score:4, Interesting)
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You pick up the apple, and eat it
You didn't grow the apple, but you ate it as if it were yours by default.
How do you justify that ?
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somebody else
Nope.
Re:Why Apple? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it Apple's fault or Apple's problem? First of all these are Foxconn workers. Secondly Foxconn manufactures hardware for a lot of companies, not just Apple.
Apple is profitable. Not merely "regular" corporation profitable. But the sort of profitable Fortune 500 corporations look at in awe of.
Further, it's profitable per unit made. Its not making a few cents and selling billions of units. Its making serious cash off every single solitary unit.
Unlike a lot of other businesses at the top of this exploitation food-chain, Apple can well afford to pay these guys a lot better, not change their prices, and STILL be quite profitable.
That arguably makes their situation both a lot less defensible and a lot more newsworthy.
Just as Nike in the 90s when they took major heat over thier sweatshop labor producing insanely profitable $120 runners. They too were a globally recognized brand selling a premium "lifestyle" product ... and its image conscious consumers didn't want to wear that guilt. And at the prices / profit margins involved they were paying for runners there was no reason Nike couldn't afford to treat its workers betters.
Fast forward 15 years. And its Apple. Same situation.
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Because apple may have problems selling their devices when the public is informed of the horrific abuses (deaths, suicide, maiming, cancer) involved in their pretty products.
When opens users of iphones up to comments from others about how evil their phones are and how could they buy a phone built with such evil methods. And when they are made to think about how evil the build process is- some of them feel uncomfortable.
And because apple builds enough of the devices that it can be identified by reporters un
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Why is it Apple's fault or Apple's problem? First of all these are Foxconn workers. Secondly Foxconn manufactures hardware for a lot of companies, not just Apple.
You are deliberately missing the point or you didn't even read TFS. Then again, this is /., so both are possibilities. Here, let me spell it out for you, again. Apple didn't commit the labor offenses, but they did promise to not do business with companies who do commit those offenses. Now it is clear that they are breaking those promises because it's still profitable to do so, because for Apple fan-boys, cool requires sacrifice. And conscience is an easy thing to offer up.
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They (thousands of foxconn employees) are Apple workers because they build Apple products only, not generic phones. Foxconn is just a middleman that allows Apple to hire cheap, foreign labor. So these workers have two bosses, the foxconn ones and the Apple bosses at a higher level. And both are responsible for the welfare of the workers.
Let me repea
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Because the buck has to stop somewhere.
And because as a civilisation we don't think "We didn't know" is a defense against crimes committed in the pursuit of your end goal. We used to hang people for that. [wikipedia.org]
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Because it is a documentary.
Today's documentaries are based on the following logic.
1. I have a point of view on something.
2. Dig into the details and cherry pick the select items that enforce my view.
3. Use only the lamest rebuttals to make it seem like I am impartial.
3.a. I will find the busiest person to ask and post his non-comment as a proof he is up to something undesirable.
4. Mix it together and make profit from the others who had the same idea as me.
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The poor conditions in Chinese factories were highlighted in 2010 when 14 workers killed themselves at Apple's biggest supplier, Foxconn.
Can't argue with BBC about this sad statistics,
Well, if suicides show poor conditions - what do lack of suicides show? What was so special about 2010?
Other Chinese Companies are Worse (Score:2)
From what I read the steel, coal and general chemistry industries are quite bad. Apple has actually tried to clean up with their vendor requirements.
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Apple didn't promise to make those industries behave.
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Virtually meaningless is to associate Apple with Android.
And the steel, coal and general chemistry industries.
working in the valley (Score:3, Insightful)
"Every time I got back to the dormitories, I wouldn't want to move. Even if I was hungry I wouldn't want to get up to eat. I just wanted to lie down and rest. I was unable to sleep at night because of the stress."
that doesn't sound that different from my years working in ops and dev in the valley :)
12 hour factory shifts? (Score:2)
Re:12 hour factory shifts? (Score:5, Informative)
AFTER unions got torn apart, in the US, perhaps.
but in my grandfather's day (turn of the 1900's), they fought for better working conditions and this is where the 5-day work week came from, time and a half (or more!) for overtime and I remember my GF telling me that 'every 4 hours, they are required to let us eat'. even today, at my 'cushy IT job' I don't get a food break every 4 hours. not that I need it, but its a thing that we once had and lost due to 'those evil unions' (sigh).
so, conditions were horrible in the US, we fought to make them more human-like and we won.
then, we lost them ALL. pretty much all of it.
cops and other groups have unions and no one says a word about it. but if IT guys or factory guys want to have a union, its 'hey, why do you hate america' and shit like that.
if my GF was still alive, he'd be furious for the things he and his peers fought for and yet we let drift away over the years.
Meal breaks are generally state law ... (Score:4, Insightful)
... I remember my GF [grandfather] telling me that 'every 4 hours, they are required to let us eat'. even today, at my 'cushy IT job' I don't get a food break every 4 hours ...
You probably do. Its one of those things that moved from union contracts to state law. Read your employee handbook, it probably says something about mandatory breaks and mealtimes after fixed numbers of hours. Or read the mandatory state labor rules poster in the break room at work.
if my GF was still alive, he'd be furious for the things he and his peers fought for and yet we let drift away over the years.
My grandfather's working days began a little later than yours, late 1920s. Blue collar union jobs from the late 1930s until retirement in the 70s. The way he explained it to me is that unions were less important today because the things the unions fought for back in the day are generally in the law now. So we're protect by law not union contract now. That the things his union fought for in the 60s and 70s, and that he went on strike over (reluctantly), were largely BS and they lost money by striking. The additional benefits, relative to the offer on the table before going on strike, never making up for the lost wages. That it was just politics and posturing of the union, and the union looking out for the union organization not the workers they represented. Every union is different but his was a very large well known union so I think his story may be more of the norm not the exception.
After 30 years working in software development I've not seen a return to the bad old days as you suggest. Never had an employer that didn't recognize breaks and meals. About all you could say is that it was left to you, no manager was clocking you in and out. Certainly no manager was upset when you disappeared for half an hour and reappeared with a soft drink cup from a local fast food joint in your hand. The only time my managers ever cared was after a bogus complaint to the state by a disgruntled former employee, yes myself and coworkers thought the complaint bogus. Then managers were all annoying asking if you've been working four hours yet and haven't taken a meal break. They didn't care if you were in the flow coding and not hungry yet and wanted to continue for another hour before grabbing a bite, they had to interrupt you. And if you really wanted to stress them out say you brought a sandwich and wanted to eat at your desk while you worked. Losing the flexibility to take a meal at 3 to 5 hours of work depending on your focus and/or your hunger did not improve things.
The closest you could get to the bad old days was that we were salary and didn't get paid overtime. However at the one company where we put in a ton of overtime we got pretty decent bonuses that made up for it. Now are all companies decent in this manner, no, certainly not. But as "white collared" salaried employees things were not that different from the old strong union days. Want to talk about unpaid overtime, talk to an uncle who worked on the space program in the 50s and 60s. Of course in their mind they were on a holy crusade and happy to do it, even more so than a recent college grad offered a job at a video game company.
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After 30 years working in software development I've not seen a return to the bad old days as you suggest.
Well, I suppose if things are good for you then the problem is solved for all time.
Union negotiated rules are laws means you've got benefits on the backs of the efforts of others -- you're welcome. The fact that a lot of hourly employees at blue collar jobs work unpaid hours due to task quotas is also not your problem.
As soon as some Jim Crow Laws were repealed in red states because "we didn't need them
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Hi! I've never been made to work through breaks. I have at times not taken them, but that was voluntary. Being personally driven to figure out why the bug reporting system doesn't work is not the same as being told to work straight through.
I have worked uncompensated and unpaid overtime. In most of my jobs, I was paid for 40 hours a week, regardless of what hours I worked. (In another job, I found I minded overtime a lot less when my meter was still running.) As a general rule, I was not ordered to
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12 hour factory shifts are/were common in the U.S. as well, before all the factory jobs got moved overseas.
Sure, but those included various mandatory breaks, and overtime pay. There are also much stricter safety standards (which still aren't good enough).
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thats a nice study, doesnt change the fact that it is still common anywhere in manufacturing
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Actually, worker studies in the US showed 12 hour days were more inefficient than 8 hour days.
Can you provide a citation? I certainly believe that an 8 hour shift is more productive per hour, but I have a very hard time believing that overall, more work is accomplished by working 8 hours than by working 12 hours.
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Can you provide a citation?
They work out roughly equvilant. Look at it this way ...
Your ignorant blabbering is not a citation. If you say "studies showed ..." then you should be able to cite the studies.
Let's actually look at studies... (Score:5, Informative)
scholar.google.com if anybody's interested.
Effects of scheduled overtime on labor productivity [ascelibrary.org] - Abstract says 'no significant effect on productivity'
Productivity in manufacturing... [sciencedirect.com]: As hours/day dropped, they worked more days(of the year), so productivity remained about the same.
Scheduled Overtime and Labor Productivity: Quantitative Analysis [ascelibrary.org]: Productivity drops 10-15% for 50/60 hour work weeks.
Effect of Reducing Interns' Work Hours [nejm.org]: Surprise, Surprise, NOT working medical interns for 24+ hours straight reduces serious medical errors by more than 50%.
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Try every basic time-study done in management science since fucking Taylor-ism started.
Insisting that lots of studies support your opinion is not the same as actually citing one.
Re: 12 hour factory shifts? (Score:4, Informative)
Try Abbe.
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Munster/Industrial/chap17.htm
To quote:
"It was found that everywhere, even abstracting from all other cultural and social interests, a moderate shortening of the working day did not involve loss, but brought a direct gain. The German [p. 213] pioneer in the movement for the shortening of the workingman's day, Ernst Abbé, the head of one of the greatest German factories, wrote many years ago that the shortening from nine to eight hours, that is, a cutting-down of more than 10 per cent, did not involve a reduction of the day's product, but an increase, and that this increase did not result from any supplementary efforts by which the intensity of the work would be reinforced in an unhygienic way.[41] This conviction of Abbé still seems to hold true after millions of experiments over the whole globe."
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There are plenty [theatlantic.com] of sourcesw [stackexchange.com] around [wikipedia.org] which talk about productivity when compared against work day length and even break/work intervals within the day if you do a quick Google search [google.com].
Not a SINGLE ONE of this sources says that more work is accomplished in an eight hour work day, than in a twelve hour work day. Of course shorter hours are more productive per hour, which is all these studies show. That is not the same as showing there is no incremental gain.
We had this in USA (Score:2)
labor movement born
what do commies do?
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Communism was supposed to be a labor movement.
It's clear that whatever China has is not communism, if it ever was.
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Communism was supposed to be a labor movement. It's clear that whatever China has is not communism, if it ever was.
When has communism as seen in the real world ever been anything other than a vehicle to make the people's needs subservient to the state's needs. Right now that state needs jobs to urbanize the population and foreign currency to fund modernization. Things seem to be working quite normally for a communist state, the government is getting what it wants regardless of the cost to the people.
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We do have corporate fascism in the United States, 95% the candidates in federal elections are in the pockets of large corporation, and thus in most cases voting doesn't matter at the federal level to effect any change
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The true currency of politics is votes, not money. And since the system is one person one vote, the 99%s are in charge. If a candidate fears that a significant number of voters will vote against him if he supports a corporation on a particular issue then he will side with the voters not the corporation. Above all things, politicians desire re-election. They will only server corporations to the extent t
What about other manufacturers? (Score:5, Interesting)
These conversations inevitably focus on Apple, but what about contract workers in similar factories who make phones for Samsung, Huawei, Microsoft (that still feels weird to write) and newcomers like OnePlus? I suspect that conditions are worse, simply because there is less external oversight.
Re:What about other manufacturers? (Score:5, Insightful)
but what about contract workers in similar factories who make phones for Samsung, Huawei, Microsoft (that still feels weird to write) and newcomers like OnePlus? I suspect that conditions are worse, simply because there is less external oversight.
It's irrelevant what the conditions on those other products are because the companies haven't shouted from the roof tops how much they are doing to prevent the situation and don't have a wanky, shiny, HTML5 advertisement page linked prominently on their corporate homepage [apple.com] talking about how much awesome their supplier responsibility is than everyone else.
Apple isn't being held to a higher generic standard. They are being held to their own standard.
Re: (Score:3)
It's irrelevant what the conditions on those other products are because the companies haven't shouted from the roof tops how much they are doing to prevent the situation
So the fact that Forbes and other news agencies only mentioned Apple as "having slave labor camps" and not mentioning the thousands of other US companies using the same facilities, which required Apple to YET AGAIN go out of their way to try and improve conditions --- now leads to more responsibility on Apple's part because they've tried to
Re: (Score:2)
Yes exactly.
If I go to China and get them to make me a widget most of the world won't care if it is using slave labour except for maybe a few of the usual organisations who like organising protests to keep their face in the media.
If I go to China and get them to make me a widget, and then I proudly display prominent policies on my website about human rights and how people deserve proper working conditions, then rightfully the entire world should get pissed at Me and ONLY ME, if I and I ALONE am breaking MY
Re: (Score:3)
You argument is that its okay for the other companies to be shitbags and treat people like disposable items and essentially kill them softly ... but the real crime is that Apple said they wouldn't allow it and they are?
That is one fucked up view point you have there.
Re: (Score:2)
None of them are using Pegatron.
Of them, at least Microsoft does use Pegatron (for their tablets). Also Dell and Sony manufacture there. And the rest of those listed have there own little "issues".
My first question is... (Score:2)
In the interest of due diligence, I must ask whether Mike Daisey is behind this investigation?
The "worker standards" farce is obvious (Score:2)
Apple is not the only one guilty of this, but it's more egregious in their case because they trade a lot on their luxury image.
If companies cared about workers, they'd set up factories in countries were workers are actually protected by lax and practice. Apple especially have the profits to do so.
They don't, and they don't. Let's just stop pretending the resulting product is glamorous.
HEY! We're not paying you to sleep. (Score:2)
From TFA:
Apple said it was a very common practice for workers to nap during breaks, but it would investigate any evidence they were falling asleep while working.
In related news... (Score:2)
In related news... Apple is continuing to deny responsibility for space junk launched into space by Boeing, which is known to use Apple products, and has repeatedly dodged questions about their sole responsibility for the existence of Somali pirates, who are known to have held hostage container ships containing one or more containers of Apple products, among the many thousands of containers aboard.
Oh. I'm sorry... weren't we playing the "Blame Apple for the actions of other people" game?
Re: (Score:2)
It is commonplace for US manufacturers to require their contracted facilities overseas to meet standards for ethics. treatment of workers, and environmental impact. The fact that Apple has such low standards to begin with, and doesn't even enforce them, should be bothersome.
Short of stationing an observer in every room of a factory floor room currently being used to manufacture Apple products, there's no way to do this short of spot checks, with the hope that the translators and government assigned handlers are not in the pay of the factory operator, and don't "phone ahead" so that these audit come out clean. Frankly, given that changing configuration between "unclean" and "clean", and then back to "unclean", would likely be prohibitively expensive, so as long as the spot che
Is this actually effective? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The vast size of the available labor pool greatly reduces the positive benefits that China's factory managers might gain from better treatment of the workers they currently have. They can work them into a stupor and then kick them out for a fresh new batch. The overhead to retrain is quite low in most positions.
Re:And whose fault is this? (Score:5, Insightful)
I started to write this and then I canceled because you're a troll and then I got pissed and started/canceled again, but anyway, fuck you and stuff.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe you should move to China and work for Foxconn. Them perhaps someone would care about you.
Re: (Score:2)
You're in the office 12-16 hours a day, but I suspect you'd accomplish more if you were only there and well focused for 6 or 7 hours. :)
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, the BBC is a single homogeneous unit, so the higher ups protecting Saville during his active years 20 years ago or whatever are EXACTLY the same people as those doing the investigation. On that note we should arrest the geniuses at the local Apple store for human rights abuses because they are clearly the same people.
Not to mention their disgraceful one side coverage of the Scottish referendum on Independence this year have left many like myself really not giving much of a shit as to what they have to
Re: (Score:2)
Question. Why do they work people so hard instead of just hiring more people? Are these guys salaried instead of hourly? Is it about keeping down costs on training or employee benefits like dormitories they don't think they can operate without? It can't be a massive labor shortage or the employees would quit and find somewhere else to work...
The cost to the company for an employee includes more than just that employee' hourly wage, and much of it is not fungible.
This is why in the U.S. we have 3 people working 40 hour weeks, instead of 4 people working 30 hour weeks. In order to reduce the work week length, we'd need to be able to make 3x40 equivalent to 4x30 for the employer. Most of the overhead that makes this losing math is associated with government, although there's also per employee equipment costs and space costs at the worksite. Eve
Re: (Score:2)
Question. Why do they work people so hard instead of just hiring more people? Are these guys salaried instead of hourly? Is it about keeping down costs on training or employee benefits like dormitories they don't think they can operate without? It can't be a massive labor shortage or the employees would quit and find somewhere else to work...
The are paid for overtime. Many people _want_ overtime because it is cash in their pocket. I think most of the reason to pressure people into overtime is (a) stupidity (I'd want workers who are fresh and not tired), (b) disrespect for workers, and (c) genuinely not enough people to hire.
That's different from the USA where the causes are (a) stupidity (I'd want workers who are fresh and not tired), (b) disrespect for workers, and (c) greed, pressuring people to work overtime without pay.