Apple Bringing Second Lawsuit To Samsung, Won't Wait For Appeal 239
sl4shd0rk writes "Hot on the heels of last year's Apple win over Samsung, Apple is geared up for its second attempt at knocking Samsung's alleged copy-cat products off the store shelves. District Judge Lucy Koh asked both parties if they could stay the new case while the first one goes up on Appeal. Apple denied citing a delay would "seriously and irreparably prejudice Apple." The company "will likely suffer a long-term loss of market share and of downstream sales". Samsung replied with a statement saying "Apple will be unable to meet its burden of proving infringement without resorting to the same improper 'representative product' strategy," [that shouldn't have been allowed in the first case.] Although some may think this is a good move for business on Apple's part, some claim the litigation is responsible for Apple's dipping sales and stock prices as well as Increased visibility of Samsung. In the end however, all this litigation is most likely going to be shouldered on the pocketbook of the consumer'"
Apple is over (Score:4, Insightful)
They just don't know it yet.
Re:Apple is over (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless either of them come up with another way to make money after their huge cash cows are done.
Re:Apple is over (Score:4, Interesting)
Right. In the same way that Exxon is over, though they too just don't know it yet.
Exxon owns resources. Exxon produces a *commodity*. Exxon sells the said commodity to wholesalers, and other places on long term future contracts.
To end consumers, Exxon is *not* a brand any more than Microchip.
On the other hand, Apple is a brand. Apple does not sell commodities - they sell end products. Apple does not own resources (or round corners, despite what they claim). Apple makes *gadgets* and it is all about brand.
Comparing Exxon to Apple is like comparing a farm to a corner store.
Apple can go under much quicker than Exxon.
Unless either of them come up with another way to make money after their huge cash cows are done.
Exxon does not have a huge cash pile. Exxon invests the cash pile and returns dividends to shareholders - the real owners of the said cash pile.
Apple, continues to make a larger cash pile for no reason. If they think they can just sit on that cash pile, then they are a real bad investment. No business, except for financials, should have large, unneeded cash piles, ever. Cash piles should be returned to their shareholders*
* - I personally favour end-of-year lump sum based on profitability (or lack there of) instead of a steady dividend. Business should keep around funds (and assets) to fund any downturns and investments, but they should not be hoarding cash without a purpose.
Re:Apple is over (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Apple is over (Score:4, Interesting)
Good for you. Here in New Zealand our carriers only push updates a few times a year, if at all. I had an HTC Android with a extremely annoying bug which my carrier (Telecom NZ) took 6 months to push an update for. I ended up just cracking my phone and putting on Cyanmodgen only to have my carrier release the update a few weeks later. I basically traded issues I had with the stock software with issues I had with the Cyanmodgen software so I was still pretty unsatisfied with the phone. My experience with Android's overreliance on carrier updates has been so bad I'm actually considering WM8 or Apple for my next smartphone. At least with Apple (and WM8 I'm hoping?) you get your updates directly from the horses mouth instead of having to wait for your carrier to push it at their leisure.
Re: (Score:3)
Why did you even buy your phone from the carrier? If the answer is "I had no choice" then your market is broken. In the UK you can get an unbranded phone on contract from a carrier,usually a bit cheaper, frfrom a third party.
Re: (Score:3)
Do you really think it's safe to consider a windows phone yet? Some poor bastard paid $50 for my WM6.5.3 phone, probably because he had an investment in software that won't run on WP7 or 8. Do you want to go through that again when WP9 or 10 comes out ten or fifteen minutes from now and it's different again? There's Android software being written today that runs on Android 2.1 or even 1.6 and most of it runs on 2.3.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Apple is over (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't even a great rate.
AT&T provides you with a $300 discount at most on a phone. If you compare their plans to a similar Straight Talk plan, you are paying a MINIMUM of $300/year penalty for the subsidy. A typical replacement period is 2 years, early upgrades start for many at 18 months.
So you are paying a minimum of $150 extra for an inferior device.
Discount for bringing your own phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, yeah, the fees you agreed to, to get that great rate on the phone.
So why don't the major U.S. carriers give any discount on the monthly bill to customers who choose to bring their own phone or to buy the phone up front at retail price? As far as I can tell, T-Mobile is the only carrier to offer this sort of price structure among the four non-MVNO nationwide carriers in the US, and T-Mobile's coverage is fourth place out of the four.
Re:Discount for bringing your own phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Because carrier collusion is good for business. Why would you ask such a stupid question? You just asked why 3 business would collude to have higher prices. Well duh, it's cause it's more profitable.
Fact is the largest reason pre-paid plans are beginning to displace contract plans is because they are cheaper. There's going to be a turning point at some point in the future if people keep picking prepaid plans, and that turning point will be when the big three carriers all switch to similar pricing plans for hardware that T-Mobile does.
Re: (Score:3)
As long as they're ripping off iOS features it would be nice if Android manufactures would copy Apple's policy of providing reliable system updates for several years. And no, Cynanogen doesn't count.
Hear hear. I had an unpleasant shock when Google decided to drop support for the Nexus S the day the Nexus 4 was announced, even though it has several outstanding reboot bugs.
Re:Apple is over (Score:5, Informative)
Cyanogenmod 10.1 is your friend - Android 4.2.2 on the Nexus S works better than ever ... in fact I'm posting from a Nexus S running it right now.
(why Google decided they could no longer support it, god only knows ... but the beauty of Android being open source means that it doesn't matter)
what happened to not wanting to sue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:what happened to not wanting to sue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they're all psychopaths who lie constantly even without themselves noticing?
Re: (Score:2)
Because they're all psychopaths who lie constantly even without themselves noticing?
Just like politicians.
Re:what happened to not wanting to sue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Point of fact: you believed a press release. Don't ever do that. Doesn't matter who said it, when, where, or how. If they said it in a press release, their intent is to trick you somehow.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Point of fact: you believed a press release. Don't ever do that. Doesn't matter who said it, when, where, or how. If they said it in a press release, their intent is to trick you somehow.
Just like politicians.
Re:what happened to not wanting to sue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because truth is something malleable. The higher up you look, the more malleable it becomes. Go all the way to the top and the concept of truth becomes so malleable as to lose all meaning.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not wanting to sue to begin with was probably due to the PR involved and bad inter-company relations (Samsung used to supply... screens?). Having won the last lawsuit to the tune of $1B, means that while he didn't really support the orignal lawsuit he's perfectly ok with other money making courthouse shinanegans.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Apple and SCO should join forces. Or, Apple should hire all of SCO's legal representatives. They need experience!
Re: (Score:3)
Having won the last lawsuit to the tune of $1B
The award has already been chopped almost in half, and the case hasn't even gotten to appeals yet.
http://www.macgasm.net/2013/03/01/judge-koh-cuts-400-million-from-apple-samsung-suit/ [macgasm.net]
I personally doubt there will be much of anything left of that award in the end.
Re: (Score:2)
Having won the last lawsuit to the tune of $1B
The award has already been chopped almost in half, and the case hasn't even gotten to appeals yet.
Errm, nope. The judgement is that parts of the award have been calculated wrong - and the end result may go down or even go up.
Re:what happened to not wanting to sue? (Score:5, Informative)
The award was reduced based on the fact that the jury used an impermissible legal theory to calculate them. That is a straight up reduction.
An additional trial was also ordered to calculate damages in cases where the judge couldn't simply strike them. The portion that falls under that may yet go up or down, but smart money would be on down; since the judge believes the same impermissible legal theory was used to calculate those damages too, but she doesn't have the information needed to break the total down into what parts were permissible and what wasn't.
All that doesn't even consider the various underlying patents that are under pressure and a number of which have already been preliminarily ruled invalid. If / when they fall the damages will fall even further.
Re: (Score:3)
And yet, all of the jury's decisions still stand in principle.
True; the trial judge has so far decided not to overturn the jury verdict of her own case. No one is really THAT surprised by that.
However
a) The actual appeals haven't even really started yet. You know, in the appeals courts, where the trial judge isn't the one making decisions.
b) The patents themselves may fall (that at least some will fall is almost inevitable), and if they do the jury's decisions and awards related to them will be mooted.
And s
Re: (Score:3)
I thought the sitting CEO said he never wanted to sue to begin with, that the case was already in play when jobs died. If that were true, why a new lawsuit??
Could be related to the fact that this "new" lawsuit was filed long before he said it.
Re: (Score:3)
Unappealing (Score:4, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Unappealing (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Unappealing (Score:4, Insightful)
The funny thing is that the Nexus 4 is even better than the S3, and even without LTE it's way better than my old iPhone 5 that I upgraded from. Unless the iPhone 5s/6 break some seriously new ground to catch up in all the areas where Android is better (and the list increases every day) Apple is fucked.
Re: (Score:2)
I wanted to by a Nexus 4 when I was upgrading from my Nexus S - I always liked the Nexus line. But the "glass sandwich" design idea was dumb for the iPhone, and it's dumb for the Nexus. I went for a Galaxy Note iI instead.
Re: (Score:3)
The iPhone 5 is in fact quite good. Zero lag and extremely stable. However, if you like to tinker and install ROMs and rice-up your phone, don't get one.
Re:Unappealing (Score:4, Insightful)
Or if you like being able to get your music and pictures and notes off your phone. Also a good reason to get an Android phone.
Re:Unappealing (Score:4, Insightful)
there are plenty of reasons besides tinkering that Android is vastly more popular than iOS. In fact such activity is relatively rare on the Android platform, after all it is the most widely used smartphone platform in the world so it has certainly found favor far beyond some group of techies.
Some examples of reasons that people are choosing Android:
some people like to have a variety of choices in what their phone looks like
some people prefer a more powerful environment
some people like to stand out in a crowd rather than blending in
some people prefer not to allow a massive corporation to censor the content and applications they are allowed to use
etc...
Re: (Score:2)
some people like to stand out in a crowd rather than blending in
By getting the most widely used smartphone platform?
Re: (Score:3)
some people like to stand out in a crowd rather than blending in
By getting the most widely used smartphone platform?
With hundreds of different devices in all shapes and sizes, yes. Much easier than "thinking different" on a platform that allows one manufacturer who releases one model.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Most of those people buying Androids do so because there are cheap models available. Apple doesn't serve that market.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yup. Older non-Nexus Android devices were crap, and unfortunately, many still are.
Nexus devices Just Work, and also, Sony's newer devices have the most polished manufacturer skins I've ever seen. The Xperia T's stock firmware was one of the most solid packages I'd ever used (blew Touchwizz out of the water with a nuclear-tipped torpedo...) The Xperia Z's firmware is simply amazing. They've come a long way since the X10.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Last thing I want to do is hack my phone,"
Hacking together your system can be a pain - whether it's your desktop, your workstation, laptop, or phone. But, all the same, your sentence comes across as "I just want what I want, and I don't expect to put any work into it." Sadly, the carriers aren't going to give that to any of us. You take what they offer, or you hack away at it. Waiting for them to offer what you really want means you'll never get what you want.
And, I hope you're actively "hacking" Cong
Re: (Score:2)
I do wish I had the money to buy "millions of apps and new songs and movies".
Anyway, that probably accounted for about 1000 of top most wealthy people in the world. What about the rest of us?
Re: (Score:2)
I want a phone that works, where I can easily buy billions of apps and new songs and movies instantly.
Until you want an app that isn't available on the App Store due to Apple's policy [pineight.com]. How many Russian roulette apps are there? 0. How many chat roulette apps? 0. How many apps to map out Wi-Fi hotspots? 0. How many games that satirize an identifiable organization? 0. How many apps that provide a virtual machine on which to run video games published by companies that are now out of business? 0. How many web browsers that implement HTML features that Apple has left out of Safari? 0. How many launcher replacemen
Re: (Score:2)
With none of the new features, and they may have even removed a few! So awesome!
Re: (Score:2)
"want one thing to just work"
"maybe in a few years android will get better"
"fix the fragmentation problems"
Oh my gosh, you really need to pull your head out of whatever it's stuck in.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.google.com/search?q=nexus+5 [google.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Unappealing (Score:5, Funny)
On the other hand the iPhone 5 is super shiny...
So are many fishing lures.
Re: (Score:2)
If Apple's business practices are affecting your decision, you may want to educate yourself on some of Samsung's business practices. Make sure you read through it all, rather than assuming that the first part is indicative of the rest, since the shady stuff doesn't really start until about halfway through the article.
Re: (Score:2)
That's little better than goatse, dude. Jeeezus!
Re: (Score:2)
Outstanding work. Carry on!
Cant compete... litigate (Score:4, Insightful)
The standard procedure of a large company in decline.
Samsung should make a commercial out of this.
Re:Cant compete... litigate (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft used their market power to create a monopoly, instead of creating better products. MS has been in decline for 10 or 12 years, and continues to create inferior products, yet still acts like a monopoly.
Apple has followed the MS model.
Apple is in a state of stagnation and decline, which was and is predictable.
The market for open technology products is swamping the closed technology markets, with the inevitable results.
Consumers will benefit in the end.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm pretty sure (s)he does know what it means:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=AAPL [stockcharts.com]
Re:Cant compete... litigate (Score:4, Interesting)
hrm... maybe I am... so let's check.
Can I intrest you in calls with a strike price of 650?
Re: (Score:2)
I wish I had mod points for you.
I really wish I had a time machine. (Score:4, Interesting)
I really wish I had a time machine. So I could show this to the Apple fanboys in the 90s - back when if you pointed out ANY criticism of Apple you'd get mod'ed down to oblivion and a shitload of comments like - "bu..bu..but Microsoft!"
Listen folks, attaching yourself (identity) to anything, let alone some corporation's products, will lead to heartbreak.
*expecting some smug comments from FOSS people now.*
Re: (Score:2)
These days, I'd be more inclined to expect a 3D-printed Arduino phone.
Re:I really wish I had a time machine. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm smug, thank you.
Back in the day, suggesting that ANY *nix variant might dominate ANY market other than servers would have had the whole world laughing at you.*
*cue the clueless who don't understand that Android is really a hacked Linux - yes, hacked, like it was meant to be. Need Linux to do something new and different? Just take it and make it do what you need!
Re: (Score:2)
cue the clueless who don't understand that Android is really a hacked Linux - yes, hacked, like it was meant to be.
Indeed, and very lightly hacked at that. Mostly in tasteless ways, for what it's worth.
Re: (Score:2)
There's no accounting for taste.
Excellent timing, Apple! (Score:5, Funny)
Just in time for the release of the Samsung Galaxy S IV! I think the product launch can use any extra visibility that Apple is willing to give.
In other news, Apple has decided to upgrade their own-foot-shooting shotgun to fully automatic. [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Ironically, the USAS-12 was developed and is produced by a South Korean company.
I'm sure Apple has a patent for that.
Re: (Score:2)
and belt fed...
Very impressive! But I think Apple will skip it and in the new upgrade to their foot self-shooting, go directly to shotgun artillery. [globalsecurity.org]
Don't ask the lawyers (Score:5, Funny)
The Judge asked Apple's lawyers, "Can stay the new case while the first one goes up on Appeal?" The only question they heard was "Do you want more or fewer billable hours?"
Re:Don't ask the lawyers (Score:5, Informative)
No, Apple's legal team for the case (from the firm of Gibson, Dunne & Crutcher, LLP) are not in-house, salaries staff.
Samsung's visibility (Score:5, Informative)
...as well as Increased visibility of Samsung.
Samsung's visibility has a lot more to do with the fact that they spend gajillions of dollars on advertising [asymco.com] than with any of the lawsuits they're involved in. Hell, they're spending more than Apple, HP, Dell, and Microsoft combined when it comes to advertising. And then, on top of that they're spending about the same amount again on sales promotions. Billions upon billions of dollars.
If you're a company that wants visibility, that's one way you can do it. That's how they did it. It's working for them. You'd have to willfully choose to ignore the obvious if you're seriously suggesting that these lawsuits that only niche communities are even aware of and concerned with are in any way responsible for a significant increase in the visibility of Samsung.
Re:Samsung's visibility (Score:4, Informative)
Based on the 2011 annual reports.
- Samsung lists $2.9 billion for advertising expenses and $4.5 billion on Sales promotion expenses. (total $7.4 billion)
- Coca Cola lists $3.2 billion for advertising expenses and $5.8 billion for Promotions and Marketing programs (total $9 billion)
- While Apple list $0.93 billion for advertising expenses, that is the only expense they give a value for in their SG&A of $7.6 billion which includes retail costs, marketing, professional services, advertising and "other".
All that data shows is that everyone else hides their actual marketing expenditure better.
Re: (Score:2)
That can definitely be true. Even so, there are still a number of folks here who are good about listening to reason on both sides, which is one of the reasons I like Slashdot and its community still. Facts are still facts, after all, and even though I'm an Apple fanboy, I do my best to avoid being a rabid one that responds without thinking critically (cue the tired joke about all Apple fans being brainless sheep), and likewise, there are a number of folks on the other side who are perfectly reasonable.
Just
Re: (Score:2)
This is the link I accidentally left out [kernelmag.com] that covers the stuff I was talking about related to the shady stuff Samsung and its chairman are doing. Can't believe I forgot to link it.
No, there isn't an app for that (Score:2)
all I read about Android is how much of a clusterfuck and virus-magnet it is. [...] I buy something if it meets my requirements.
Then I'll assume your requirements don't include anything listed here [pineight.com].
How can (Score:4, Insightful)
How can a product be a copy cat when it is *better* and *more innovative* than the original?
Re:How can (Score:4, Insightful)
How can a product be a copy cat when it is *better* and *more innovative* than the original?
Sssh, hush, dearie, that logic only works when Apple was improving on the smartphones of the Days of Old. Not now when Apple's infallible Design(tm) is what's on the line.
Re: (Score:2)
what is more innovative about a sIII than an iphone 5? Sitting down comparing a 4s to the sIII I didn't get blown away by anything on the sIII (or 4s). Both offer such incredibly similar abilities I can't find a single thing samsung has added (mind you, samsung, not google with android) that I would call innovative.
*Better* is a choice, and most likely based on android vs iOS though could come down to the screen size and NFC (granted, outside of Japan, I can't think of anywhere NFC is very useful).
Re: (Score:2)
How can a product be a copy cat when it is *better* and *more innovative* than the original?
Is it just me, or does this sound like the beginning of one of those "how many lawyers" jokes?
Re: (Score:2)
Clearly Samsung is traveling 50 years into the future, and stealing ideas from the then-state-of-the-art Apple phones and tablets.
Duh... (Score:5, Insightful)
How in the world would this ever *not* be the case?
Re: (Score:2)
dipping sales? (Score:2)
I don't think so.
Re:dipping sales? (Score:4, Informative)
Here's what the picture is:
1. Sales are below forecasts.
2. Margins are decreasing.
3. Profits from operations are slightly down.
4. Apple has missed revenue and profit forecasts its last 3 quarters.
5. Apple (as usual) issues a lot of stock as part of its compensation program.
6. Earnings per share declines.
7. Apple is churning its product line with minor tweaks rather than real innovation.
8. Apple is suing like crazy.
9. People are wondering where the profit growth is going to come from.
10. The stock has lost 40% of its market value.
Samesung should rush out a sWatch product (Score:3, Insightful)
Screw both Swatch and Apple in the same go.
Anyways, its obvious Apples is just pissing money away on something they seem to be losing out on. Even if Samsung blatantly stole their original design cue's directly from Apple, the fact is Samsung is now the largest alternative to Apple, and nothing Apple is going to do to stop that. Even if Apple win's billions in compensation the fact is Samsung has created an empire suitable to dethrone Apple, which was Steve Jobs greatest fear, for Apple to become a runner up again.
Of course its ridiculous to think that Apple could be dethroned on something like rounded corners on a rectangle, but the reality is Apple knows they did nothing innovative with iOS other then present a grid of rounded rectangles. Hell Steve Jobs even pissed on using a stylus with a Smartphone and Samsung has captured a huge market of people buying phones and tablets with a stylus now.
These lawsuits are just working against Apple now their stock has tanked; while everyone was on board to support Apple when their stock was $700 a share those same people are just as easily out looking for blood.
Apple isn't a darling anymore in anybody's eyes and their continued behavior will just cause more investors to lose faith that they can no longer remain an innovative company, just a has been trying to protect their old patents.
Re: (Score:2)
Samsung doesn't control Android. It could be their undoing.
Re: (Score:2)
If we had no abusive patent system (Score:2)
... then Apple would have never designed the iPhone the way it did, or probably would never have designed it at all. In fact, Apple might no longer even exist because no one would be investing in business because there would be no money to make.
Not!
Obviously Samsung is doing well without these certain patents. Other companies are doing well, too. What's special about Apple that would make it fail in this kind of competitive market? Oh wait ... it's all overpriced.
The patent system SHOULD be there to enc
Re: (Score:2)
I don't blame Apple, though.
I do blame Apple, for losing the plot on innovation and descending to the level of sleazy thugs.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The patent system defines the playing field. Apple is just playing in it like everyone else. They would not need these patents, and not even have a desire for them, other than this is how business is done with the bad patent system we do have. It's been long time to get rid of it.
Re: (Score:3)
The patent system defines the playing field. Apple is just playing in it like everyone else.
No, Apple is playing it like a thuggish bully. And paying the price in terms of alienating its former fanatic supporters.
Very true: (Score:2)
some claim the litigation is responsible for Apple's dipping sales and stock prices
Apple gave me plenty of reasons not to buy their products with proprietary connectors and the "because we say so" attitude, but suing everyone who crosses their path was most certainly a nail in the coffin. I've owned a couple of iPhones and was even using Macs for a while, it wasn't the existence of better/cheaper products that chased me away, it was the companies overall attitude.
Re:Editors: "it's" vs. "it is" (Score:5, Funny)
Remember the golden rule: "it's" always expands to "it is". No exceptions.
It's been a wet summer.(contraction of it has).
Grammar Nazi smackdown.
Re: (Score:3)
Polysynthetic (Score:3)
While we're at it, why are contractions only viable for 2 words?
Because when you get into unbounded contractions, your language begins to sound like a polysynthetic language [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)