Apple Hides Samsung Apology So It Can't Be Seen Without Scrolling 743
An anonymous reader writes "Apple today posted its second Samsung apology to its UK website, complying with requests by the UK Court of Appeal to say its original apology was inaccurate and link to a new statement. As users on Hacker News and Reddit point out, however, Apple modified its website recently to ensure the message is never displayed without visitors having to scroll down to the bottom first."
OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:4, Insightful)
The lawyers are probably going to get put in front of the bar for their shite advice to these pricks too.
Banned product, I reckon. And some few billion in compensatory damages to Samsung. It seems the only thing they won't weasel out like a spoilt four-year-old is being slammed down hard financially.
Re:who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
When you've been slapped down for contempt of court, your next action really shouldn't be this kind of open contempt. I wonder how Apple's UK employees feel about this disrespect to their courts?
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think Apple's UK employees really give a damn?
Apple managers didn't think clearly. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:who cares (Score:2, Insightful)
And they have. People whining about scrolling to see it? Get over it, all the stuff on the bottom of their page has required a scroll to see it.
Try READING the court order. They are in full compliance.
How long until they just reach for a big hammer? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder exactly how much patience the judges have for this kind of nonsense.
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:3, Insightful)
If they don't already, they will when the courts start looking at who to throw in jail for contempt of court.
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
That's right. They should goosestep to the demands of the state. All hail Britannia! I love you sheeple.
If you think you're above the requirements the government lays on you, you could be in for a rude awakening.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:5, Insightful)
He's not saying 'they're done' as in 'they're bankrupt' - wrong context.
He's saying they've made a pretty serious mistake, which is true; it doesn't matter how big a company you are, there's a point where you can't just ignore the law of the land any longer. This is now the second time that Apple's failed to comply, and the means makes it clear it's deliberate. How do you expect the courts to react to that? Or the people for that matter?
The UK has a different culture than the US; this won't be seen as 'sticking it to the man' but as childish petulance; it's bad press that Apple does *not* need in a market where they're already behind Samsung. If sanctions go to the EU level then Apple could realistically end up a US-only phone company - so don't underestimate the seriousness of this.
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
It could go much farther than that. I don't know how large a fine the court is allowed to impose for contempt, but I imagine it's pretty large.
And if the court it more interested in the apology being viewed, they could required Apple to post ads on buses and trains, buy advertising time on television and post the apology in large letters across every website and on the marquis of all their UK Apple stores. They could specify the exact wording, location and size of the ads. They could make them put it in an obtrusive place on every page and piece of paperwork their customers see -- for as long as they want.
The point here is: don't mess with the judge!
True in the UK. True everywhere.
Re:How long until they just reach for a big hammer (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:5, Insightful)
Way back in the early days of the Mac, Apple should have been able to rule the world. Unfortunately Apple was run by and anal-retentive asshole who actually tried to rule the world. The Developers and hardware manufacturers who could have participated in Apple's success figured out really quickly that Apple didn't want anyone to share in their success.
So the developers and hardware companies made Microsoft and PC's a success. Apple would have lost out completely, but they actually built a decent graphics display and a few software developers were able to build some very desirable products that couldn't be run on a PC clone.
MS could have run Apple out of the marketplace at any time, but they didn't have to because Apple had already cut their own throats. And the bean-counters were unable to make Apple competitive company again.
When Jobs was invited back (out of sheer desperation on the bean-counters part) he invented the iToys and revitalized a dying company, but in 20 or so years he had never learned a thing and was still an anal-retentive asshole.
Android has already captured 50% of the smartphone market and once it becomes possible for developers to make a buck (without all the walled garden BS) Apple is once again destined for a 5-10% market share - unless the marketing guys for Android think they can make a buck with their own walled garden.
Unless they finally learn something, that high-flying Apples stock might turn into an excellent opportunity for short-sale speculators Rim used to make more money than god. It didn't take much to turn that around...
Re:Apple managers didn't think clearly. (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple managers are apparently unaware that sneaky behavior is likely to get a big story on Slashdot.
Why would they care about that? As hard as this notice is to see, it will be seen by far more people than anything on slashdot.
Facts... (Score:3, Insightful)
How about some facts.
First, the UK website has had this responsive layout for weeks. Also, most other country-specific landing pages of Apple use the same layout (for example German, Austrian websites). With the notable exception being the US site.
Second, Apple was laughed at for claiming to need 2 weeks to implement the new statement on their website. While I agree I could fix something like that in 5 minutes, you just don't fiddle around in the CSS of such a website. In addition to drafting a new text, you have to adjust the code and actually test it, which can't be done in a few days. That the court demanded Apple to fix this in 48hrs, just goes to show how much they understand about this.
Re:This stunt by Apple (Score:2, Insightful)
You never let the opportunity to lie for Apple's advantage go past you. I have to admire your tenacity, yet loathe your dishonesty.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to care how much money this company makes.
Maybe you should just give them more money just by donating them money, since you think having the smallest userbase with the maximum profit is a good thing.
Blackberry at it's peak had twice as much users (50%+), windows is still dominating (75%+), Samsung has always sold more smartphones...
So why do you want each device to be more expensive for no other reason than to make a company rich?
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this contempt? The message isn't hidden, it's right there on the page. The fact that they optimise the page so that their product shot makes the most of the above-the-fold real estate is not removing it from the page in any way, it's just good design.
The judge never specified that it had to be in a particular place on the page, or above the fold. And wearing my web developer hat, it's not at all obvious that above the fold was implied to be necessary. If it were me doing it, I'd do it the same way - you'll notice that the other chaff like the footer links aren't above the fold either.
If you have clicked on this Slashdot article and are now reading this comment, it is almost certainly below the fold. Yet you read it, right? It's not invisible?
Re:No scrolling required... (Score:3, Insightful)
He posted his screenshot, you post yours.
Oh Apple, when will you snap out of it? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's getting harder and harder to defend Apple.
It's 1997, they're near bankruptcy, and St. Steve comes back to save them. They're the underdog, and we cheer for them.
The iMac comes out. OSX comes out. The iBook comes out, with wifi standard, and they start cementing their reputation for avant-garde design paired with avant-garde architecture.
The iPod comes out, and they're clearly on a roll.
Then, the iPhone. Very nice device, miles ahead of everything else, but one niggling problem: the walled garden. Still, that's perfectly defensible: simply a way to preempt any virii, right?
Then they start bricking phones that are jailbroken. WTF, Apple? It's malicious behavior, and can't be explained away by any desire to stop viruses: people who jailbreak aren't Apple's responsibility, they chose that path and Apple should let them walk it.
Then, once Android starts to get really competitive, the suing starts. Sure, some of it may be technically correct - they won a number of their cases, around the world, and phones like the Galaxy S were pretty clearly rip-offs. But Apple wasn't just standing up for its rights, it was competing in the courtrooms instead of the marketplace. They had stopped being the underdog that succeeded through innovation (not invention, innovation - look it up), and started being the establishment that succeeded through inertia and bullying as much as anything else.
And now, they descend even further, and behave petulantly, seeming to agree with the law when it serves their interests and flaunt the law when it doesn't. From a company that advances the state of the art to a company that wants to freeze the state of the art for purely selfish reasons.
Re:who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
its really a good thing that I'm not a UK judge.
I'd have zero problem fining them 10% of their annual UK profits.
10% isn't enough to kill anyone but it surely is enough to sting.
screw with the ruling again and it doubles. each fucking time!
look, apple is toying with the courts and laughing at them.
UK judges: strike back and show them who's boss. please! we're all hoping for a huge slap-down to put them back in line.
spoilt children do need to be taught a lesson. and one that actually hurts so that they remember it.
Re:Facts... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, if 48 hours was an unreasonable amount of time to make this change, perhaps Apple should have complied with the original order which gave them 14 days. Instead of, you know, being giant cocks about it.
UK ruling is crap (Score:0, Insightful)
It's obvious that Samsung copied the iPad design. Apple did the right thing putting the link exactly where they did. And yes, it does take 2 weeks to update large scale web sites if proper processes are in place.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Facts... (Score:5, Insightful)
you have to adjust the code and actually test it, which can't be done in a few days
Huh what? It takes more than a few days to test a change like adding some text to the bottom of a web page? Granted that there are multiple browsers and configurations to test, but even manually that's not more than a few hours' work... and if Apple's web site is managed by competent engineers they should have automated tests for that anyway. This sort of change should take minutes, not days, much less weeks.
Re:Too slow, friend. (Score:1, Insightful)
Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:5, Insightful)
The most recent news is "down on disappointing iPad Mini sales".
Where are these sales figures?
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:5, Insightful)
iPad mini is estimated to have sold 1.5m in the first weekend. It appears Apple has redefined success. Anyone else sells that amount, it is an unqualified success. If it's Apple it's meh.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:5, Insightful)
THIS, this right here, is why I can't understand why MSFT is blowing billions jumping into the shark tank that is ARM powered mobile devices. Frankly Apple is the ONLY one making reliable money, the rest are caught in a race to the bottom, HTC has had some bad quarters, so has Samsung, the rest are looking ready to lose their shirts. the chips are changing too fast, they have too much stock, and frankly nobody looks at anything but the price...except for Apple.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, even in a downturn Apple will make out like bandits because they are NOT a tech company that makes fashionable devices, they are a fashion company that happens to work in tech. This is actually a GOOD thing for Apple fans, just look at lines around the block and people paying crazy markup for Air Jordans. Fashion seems immune when it comes to downturns for the most part, and even when article after article bitches about their memory prices...they keep right on buying.
So any company trying to jump into that blood soaked shark tank is frankly more than a little insane, and anybody that thinks they'll make iMoney with Android or WinRT are frankly delusional. Mark my words you'll see dual core 7 inch tablets for $50, the prices will drop so low it'll practically be throwaway devices. The only one that will be making consistent profits will be Apple, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even own an iPod.
It isn't necessarily about making money, IMO. It is about creating an ecosystem that allows their existing product to continue to thrive. As more and more people embrace mobile, and as the tablet and the laptop continue to converge, it seems apparent that Microsoft can't just keep on delivering new releases of Windows and Office. Eventually, as Google Apps continue to improve and make headway, as Google releases the Chromebook and such alternatives take root, there is going to be fewer and fewer things that are keeping people in the Microsoft world.
Even if Microsoft's mobile venture doesn't win them huge sums of money, inroads in market share means that the Windows experience is out there as a viable alternative moving forward. Delivering an ecosystem where Windows applications can run on both the desktop and the mobile device means that development for the Windows platform can continue. If enterprises are forced to support Android and/or iOS anyway then there is no reason to build anything that takes advantage of Microsoft unique features. If Microsoft can put forth a unified ecosystem where enterprises can be convinced to target the Windows platform, that is a huge win for the long term viability of Microsoft.
Re:This stunt by Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
I have no idea what I had for lunch last Wednesday.
Not everyone has a piss-poor memory.
I know what I had for lunch last Wednesday. Why? Because I don't stumble through life blindly moving from one moment to the next!
Had I checked out Apples page like the parent last week, I would have certainly taken note of both the position and content in the footer due to all the talk about how Apple was likely to bury the link there. Not that it would have been terribly difficult to call to mind the look of a page I'd seen recently!
Still, your argument boils down to "I have a bad memory therefore the parent is lying!" Not too convincing...
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
Judges don't like "good design". They don't like clever marketing tricks (like the first "apology"). They like absolute, immediate compliance (and not "technical" compliance) with the spirit of their demands.
Apple needs to suck it up and obey the court's order, or for the next round, you can expect executives to give their apologies on live TV from the inside of a cage.
If you have clicked on this Slashdot article and are now reading this comment, it is almost certainly below the fold. Yet you read it, right? It's not invisible?
Do you remember the SlashQuote at the bottom of your page when you wrote that comment? Did you even scroll down far enough to ever see it in the first place?
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this contempt? The message isn't hidden, it's right there on the page. The fact that they optimise the page so that their product shot makes the most of the above-the-fold real estate is not removing it from the page in any way, it's just good design.
This is an error in the judgement, not an error in Apple's behavior.
Although I will say: the message is not just below the fold; it's below the content on the page e.g. it's below even Apple's copyright statement; which suggests it's just a disclaimer.
If the Judge was serious about the prominence of the disclaimer; they should have ordered Apple to display a prominent message. Submit a 'draft' copy of their home page for the judges approval, publish it.
AND require static front page content, with the Judge's approval for all further changes to the format, display, or content of any element of the Apple.com and Apple.co.uk home pages, and submit and receive approval 7 days before the change may be made, until expiration of the order.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, Google's bubble will eventually pop, but it may take a decade or more for it to happen, and Google has a lot of time to create safeguards, which they have actively being doing for some time now.
Apple's bubble, on the other hand is going to burst much sooner and they havent been doing much in order to safeguard themselves against the eventuality.
Re:who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No scrolling required... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
They just might care if the judge shuts down Apple UK for an indefinite amount of time. Contempt punishments are entirely up to the judge issuing the punishment.
I can't for the life of me figure out what Apple thinks they're gaining when they continue to draw attention to the ruling that Samsung didn't infringe.
Re:"Below The Fold" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if a creative judge wouldn't have an original redress, like:
On apple.com, and all your international sites, in the languages you already display, you must display the apology in a click-thru manner, such as NO customer to any apple property is unaware that
Dear customers, we've been found before British court to have falsely accused samsung of theft. Moreover we've been found also by the british court, in contempt of court for not informing our british customers of such.
Please click here to continue to your normal apple site.
They obviously value publicity far more than money, and should be hit appropriately.
There's a good argument that the judge wouldn't have the power to order them to change any non-.co.uk sites, as they're not under his jurisdiction.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
Not the lawyers. (Score:3, Insightful)
The lawyers are probably going to get put in front of the bar for their shite advice to these pricks too.
You think the lawyers are advising MS to do this. I doubt it. More likely the lawyers are trying to tell Apple not to do this. If Apple keeps it up much longer, no lawyer in the EU is going to want to represent Apple.
Re:who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
So tell me, which jobs would be shed?
Which people are Apple employing unnecessarily, that they could currently shed to gain 10% additional profits, and have decided against shedding, but would shed to regain 10% of their profits?
If those jobs were surplus to the efficient and effective operations of the business, a corporation would already have shed them.
Sorry, I don't trust you at all.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple has an extremely restrict product portfolio, especially compared to Google in the real world (which is not your fantasy world), and Android is far from being a economical failure for Google as you paint, quite the opposite, actually.
But keep to your delusions. Lets see in a few years where Apple and Google stand and then you can come and apologize to me. I will be waiting.
Re:Code in question (Score:3, Insightful)
motherfuckers!!
dammit. they went OUT OF THEIR WAY to do this.
easy to verify. I normally have noscript enabled and also adblock. apple.com is on my block list for jscript and so when I resized my window to an extremely tall size first, then went to apple's page, I could see the apology line.
go to noscript and enable apple.com for jscript, and what do you know!? no matter how big I make the browser window (even exceeding my screen height) the bottom 'apology' is hidden.
again, I say, motherfuckers!.
this is clear and willful spitting in the face of the law.
I'd like to see all apple sales BANNED for one full year from the UK.
this is bullshit. total bullshit.
apple, we hate you more than ever. you do realize that, right?
javascript games. my god! and they think they can get away with it?
Re:Judicial Ventriloquism (Score:5, Insightful)
For Apple to post a statement that purports to be from Apple stating that Samsung did not copy would be ridiculous, because it's already won judgments in other jurisdictions that say Samsung did copy.
Apple spread the suggestion that Samsung had infringed on their IP. A court found that Samsung did not infringe. The court has ruled that Apple make it clear that Samsung did not infringe, to correct the damage caused by their initial list.
You may call that juvenile. I consider it to be a reasonable request. Other jurisdictions are utterly irrelevant and the ruling didn't even demand that Apple state that Samsung didn't copy, merely draw attention to the lack of infringement and link to the case.
Let the people know their judges are looking to deceive them.
Please. Tell me how the judges are trying to deceive people. Quote the specific sentence or sentences in the transcript from the court. Because I've read it and the only attempts at deception that I can see come from Apple.
Re:who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
Since when are judges supposed to care about numbers of jobs? They're law-interpreting machines, not economic strategists. That's for the politicians to worry about.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (Score:3, Insightful)
Stock price is largely based on expectations of future performance. Their stock falling isn't an indication that they are not a successful company, it's an indication that they are less successful than they once were.
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:5, Insightful)
Whilst that worked in Germany for Microsoft I do not believe that would work in the UK either. If Apple got such a ruling in place, I suspect the UK courts would really throw the book at Apple at that point regardless of what some Texas judge says. If that involved a fine, and the US courts told Apple they didn't have to pay it, that could well mean the bailiffs moving in on Apple's UK stores and seizing both the properties and the products to pay the fine.
Judges in texas can rule whatever the fuck they want but ultimately when Apple operates in a country it is bound by that countries laws and US judges do not have universal jurisdiction. It's really up to Apple then whether it wants to rely on the US judge's ruling or comply with UK law, if it doesn't it will get punished in the UK regardless.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
More importantly Samsung has diversity. Their top end Galaxy S3 has recently passed the 30 million sales mark, but they also do a large number of other phones and tablet devices. They also manufacture many of the components, including the CPUs and screens. Samsung has valuable patents on key phone related tech.
Apple has the iPhone and iPad. If they ever go out of fashion Apple is screwed.
Re:Shameful behaviour (Score:4, Insightful)
If the Judge was serious about the prominence of the disclaimer; they should have ordered Apple to display a prominent message. Submit a 'draft' copy of their home page for the judges approval, publish it.
This isn't school detention, the judge isn't a teacher who has to make sure his pupils comply. The judge expected Apple to behave like adults and not be dicks about it. Apparently that was an error in judgement and Apple will be punished for it, just like a school child would be.
Hopefully next they will be required to just replace the entire front page with a click-through notice.