Mistreated Foxconn Brazil Workers Threaten Strike 201
An anonymous reader writes "More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans. From the story: 'Factory workers at a Foxconn plant in Jundiaí, Brazil are complaining of overcrowded buses, poor food and a lack of water and have threatened to strike unless the issues are resolved by May 3.
According to a report by Brazil's Tech Guru (Google Translation), over 2,500 Foxconn employees have complained about conditions at the factory. Workers reportedly met last Monday to raise the concerns and have given the company 10 days to address them.'"
Whay would Marx say? (Score:5, Funny)
Workers of the world unite! The only thing you have to lose are your iPads!
Re:Whay would Marx say? (Score:5, Insightful)
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As someone who grew up with a LOT of Brazilian ex-patriates, it's true. I never heard the end of how lucky I was to be able to get an N.E.S. game for "only" $60-70 from Toys 'R' Us.
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I know someone who went to Brazil to find a wife. He funded his trip by buying used laptops, taking them there, and selling them.
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Don't forget about the right-wing anonymous retards throwing out their standard liberal insults!
Oh, I see you didn't forget.
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It's the one thing he and Ludwig von Mises, actually agreed on.
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That's not how you make money. Even if I am disgusted by people with too much money, I still understand why it doesnt work like that.
Ummm (Score:5, Informative)
This plant has nothing to do with Apple. They make XBoxes.
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Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair to TFS (and we might as well do, for a change of pace) it doesn't say that they do manufacture Apple products. It says that it's "Foxconn Brazil workers" (which they are), and it says that Foxconn are Apple's manufacturing partner (which they are).
And Apple aren't completely off the hook even if these workers aren't working on their products- Foxconn have fast acquired a terrible reputation for mistreating workers, and companies are responsible for the companies they partner with. Just to straw-man it up a notch- if a company were killing orphans to make dogfood, it wouldn't be acceptable to buy beef mince from them; the defence "I'm not buying their murderous products so it's not my problem" doesn't really hold much weight.
Still, it's interesting to know that they make Xboxes. No company should be involved in mistreating workers, and knowing the perpetrators is a good thing.
Apple unwilling to insulate itself from bad press (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple wants to insulate itself from bad press related to the employment practices of its contract manufacturers, it could buy its own factories and employ the workers who make its products.
There are contract manufacturers, totally capable of meeting their manufacturing requirements, that Apple could afford to buy if they wanted to. Or they could just buy the few factories that they would need.
When they choose to do business with sweatshops to build their products, they are essentially telling us they don't care enough to dirty their hands with that manufacturing business. They don't want to think about the labor relations aspects. They just don't care that much.
Same goes for Microshaft (whose products these particular workers actually make) and all the other big companies that use contract manufacturers instead of employing their own labor force. Little companies can legitimately say that they can't afford the investment in manufacturing capacity necessary to make their products efficiently. That's just not the case when you're making a big-ticket item that you sell by the millions.
Particularly Apple (Score:2, Insightful)
For one, they have massive, massive cash reserves. With that kind of money it would be completely feasible to fund their own production lines. It is very expensive to set up production facilities, more than most people appreciate, but Apple has the cash to do it and not seriously deplete their reserves. So were it an issue that mattered to them it would be doable.
Also it would be doable in a first world country, given Apple's large margins (how do you think they got all the cash?) It would mean smaller marg
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The easiest way for Apple to acquire the capacity would be to just take some of their cash and buy a major contract manufacturer. Then all the manufacturing expertise comes along with the purchase. They could probably just buy Foxconn. They could easily buy Flextronics.
But unlike Apple, there are lots of American companies that couldn't manufacture their own stuff in the USA.
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They'd make less, but still be profitable.
Music to shareholders' ears... ;) I suspect this is the reason why the vast majority of corporations behave exactly as you'd expect from a psychopath.
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Microsoft has the second largest stash, about $25 billion. I think they could replicate the Foxconn Brazil operation out of the interest income.
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If Apple went and did that and then gave these workers the opportunity to work and live somewhere that looks more like Cupertino than a favela, then maybe they wouldn't get so much shit over their products.
Re:Apple unwilling to insulate itself from bad pre (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, to be fair they do care. They care a lot about their PR - the same as any other company. And it is a lot easier to say, "we audit these external contract companies twice a year and have given them x months to make changes" than it is to say, "oh, yeah, we treat our employees in China and Brazil like crap. You caught us.". It is much better PR to work with these contract companies than to have your own sweatshops.
Re:Apple unwilling to insulate itself from bad pre (Score:5, Insightful)
There are entirely legitimate reasons to outsource manufacturing. If you have your own factory, and you get a burst of orders, you won't be able to keep up because you'll lack the needed capacity, leading to long lead times that cause you to lose customers. Conversely, if you get a lull in orders, your factory will be sitting idle, wasting money. Big companies outsource manufacturing to avoid those issues. It gives you a lot more flexibility.
The problem isn't that Apple and Microsoft and all these other companies use outsourced manufacturing... it's that they outsource the manufacturing to sweatshops. They could easily pay a bit more to have their products manufactured by a company that respects workers' rights, or pay a bit more to compel companies like Foxconn to respect workers' rights. Instead, they constantly focus on driving down prices so that they can pocket a few extra tenths of a percent of profit. And if that means some Chinese workers are getting woken up in the middle of the night to work a twelve hour shift, or some Brazilians don't have access to sufficient drinking water, who cares? The executives hanging out in Silicon Valley or Redmond or wherever will still have their billions, and that's what matters.
Hopefully the continued pressure from the media and the public will make companies like Apple push companies like Foxconn to improve conditions, but there's still a long way to go.
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Nope, the serious underlying psychopathic sickness here is, that people are cheaper and more disposable than robotics. Those same devices manufactured in western countries would largely be automated, so the plant costs considerable more to build.
This is all about how disposable a work force is, about which countries will allow their citizens to be the most devalued.
What's needed is a fair basis of trade, where those legislated costs are applied to products whether they are locally produced or imported.
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There are entirely legitimate reasons to outsource manufacturing.
They all go away when you are as large as Apple, because there's no chance that Apple can't keep a manufacturing facility busy on their own. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to not do its own manufacturing that does not involve treating people like machines.
Re:Ummm (Score:4, Informative)
I dislike Apple, quite a lot, but you have to be fair, Foxconn is an independent company, and certainly more closely associated with Intel than with Apple. It was Intel's huge contracts that made them as big as they are, and enabled them to get to other customers such as Apple.
Regardless, It's an industry wide issue. In order to compete in the real world, you have to manufacture in China, It's not just Apple doing it:
Here are more Foxconn customers:
Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[36]
Amazon.com (United States)[37]
Apple Inc. (United States)[38]
Cisco (United States)[39]
Dell (United States)[40]
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[41]
Intel (United States)[42]
Microsoft (United States)[43]
Motorola Mobility (United States)[40]
Nintendo (Japan)[44]
Nokia (Finland)[38]
Samsung Electronics (South Korea)[45]
Sony (Japan)[46]
Toshiba (Japan) [47]
Vizio (United States)[48]
Truth is Foxconn manufactures reasonably good quality products (certainly way above average for China) and they do so incredibly cheap. That changed the industry, and it will continue to attract huge companies.
We are all responsible: The Chinese government is the main abuser of its citizens, and wants a bigger industry, so they'll allow Foxconn to do anything they want. Most corporations are big amoral entities, and so are most governments (I don't mean this as an insult, I'm not saying they are evil or good, I'm saying they are neutral, they'll do what it takes to bring in profit, regardless of the implications). The other involved party, and the only ethical one, are the customers, the general public, and they completely lack morals too. Most members of the general public, as well as most employees at any of this huge corporations, and most functionaries in any government are ethical human beings, capable of feeling empathy and understanding right from wrong. But as a whole, as entities, they behave according to a completely different set of rules, and ethics and empathy aren't in their instruction set. So it's up to the individual to change this situation.
If you are really pissed about it, stop working for them, stop voting for them, and stop buying from them. Complaining about it on the internet or pretending that any of this institutions, customers included, act as a whole will get you nowhere.
Well there's a couple sticking points with Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
One is just that they like to pretend they are better than other companies, and they seem to want to deflect from the China thing. Every product has its place of final manufacture stamped somewhere on the item and/or box. It is required by law. Most companies do that, it just says "Made in X." Apple doesn't, they prefix it with "Designed in Cupertino by Apple." They seem to want to deflect from the fact that they make things in China like everyone else since they are "different" and better.
The bigger one though is Apple could afford to manufacture somewhere else with their hefty prices. Yes, with low margin stuff you often have to choose a cheap place to manufacture, but with more expensive items, you can afford better manufacturing. Like Denon, for example. Their lower end receivers are all made in China. However their higher end stuff is made in Japan (which is where they are located). They can afford the higher manufacturing cost since the profit per unit is higher on those higher end goods. The premium priced goods have premium manufacturing.
Well Apple has quite high margins. This would be where that massive amount of cash they have has come from. All their devices feature premium pricing. As such they could afford to manufacture somewhere other than China. Also, with all that cash, they could afford to build their own facilities, if they needed to because the country they chose didn't have a contractor that could do it.
Now it would mean some tradeoffs. The main one would be the big profit margins. They'd still be profitable, but not as outrageously so. The other would be that they couldn't go and roust a bunch of workers out of bed because their CEO decided he wanted a new design, they'd have to go through the normal design process that can take a bit.
However they can do it. A company that is operating on thin margins may well not be able to. Like game consoles. If they make any money on a console, it is very little. Often companies will elect to take a loss to keep the retail price down and sell more (their profit is on the games). For that, the manufacturing cost counts and you want it done cheap. Choosing a higher priced place can kill your business.
So that's why Apple gets less of a pass than some others. They are in a position they could do better, they just choose not to as to make more money. That's fine, that is a valid position, but it is also one people can take issue with.
Finally, Apple is an "All the cheapest, all the time," kind of outfit. Many of the others you listed are not. Intel, for example, fabs almost all their CPUs in the US. They also have a fab in Ireland, Israel and a new one opening in China but 6 of their fabs are in the US and the newest one they are building is also there. Or Samung, who makes all their LCD panels in Korea (most higher quality LCDs are from Korea), and their final products all over (my TV is from Mexico).
Not trying to paint Apple is the Big Baddie here or anything, just saying there is a reason they get more shit.
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To be fair, "Designed in Cupertino by Apple." is a holdover from when they actually used to build the machines in California or the US. For a long time it instead said "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in U.S.A" or something along those lines.
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Not trying to paint Apple is the Big Baddie here or anything, just saying there is a reason they get more shit.
Yes. That reason is "Apple generates page views while every other tech company does not." Don't try to pretend that there's any reason beyond that as to why people focus so heavily on Apple.
Apple generates page views. Page views generate money. People want money. Therefore, people mention Apple.
Very simple.
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you would have to have viable options to buy... unless you want to work on the difference engine :)
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To be fair to TFS (and we might as well do, for a change of pace) it doesn't say that they do manufacture Apple products.
They do, though. To be more specific, they make iPhones (4, not 4S, for some reason) and are scheduled to start making iPads soon. Here are two links (in portuguese - feel free to use Google translate), and another one [yahoo.com] saying that's the same plant that's threatening to strike [yahoo.com]. Which is not surprising, considering it's the only plant they have in Brazil. I'm wondering if the GGP is misinformed or just providing an information disservice.
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It seems you are correct. I had some conflicting information about the issue and jumped the gun (in full accordance to proper /. etiquette). Oh, well, HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS, then.
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Xbox wokers on X? (Score:2)
After all, in bowling X designates a strike. I wonder if we could come up with a headline that is a palindrome?
On a more serious note, I think we are going to see these types of stories a lot. Lesser developed country turns into an industrial country via low pages wages. As economy grows, workers strike for a higher wage / bigger piece of the pie.
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Break out the Champagne?
We are talking about people who are moving from extreme rural poverty to better factory jobs. As there are fewer extreme poor, wages should rise. I understand that we are seeing this in China already.
And then comes the robots. But that is a different story.
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
Mentioning Apple gets the page hits.
New media is a giant vacuous whore like old media,
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Even more locally than that, Slashdotters leap at the chance to bitch about or defend Apple. And since Slashdot is ad supported...
I wouldn't mind, but one of the big arguments about fixating on Apple is that they're the high profile target, so they can get them to change the conditions of the workers. In some ways, it arguably worked. Okay, cool, but the problem is that topic ran cold for the last couple of months because there weren't any new Apple stories about Foxconn. So there was no new negative pr
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Ummm (Score:2)
This plant makes both Xboxen and iPhones. You make fifty cents anyway, though.
Brazil workers have more rights then ones in China (Score:5, Insightful)
Brazil workers have more rights then ones in China.
They even got mcdonalds sued and won the case over them offering only a limited free lunch menu.
Brazil has a government-backed program requiring certain classes of employers to provide meal and grocery vouchers to low-income employees. It is not uncommon for employment benefits in developing countries to include things such as meal vouchers or housing supports that are normally not part of benefits packages in more developed countries.
and only offering a limited menu does not fit the rules.
Re:Brazil workers have more rights then ones in Ch (Score:5, Interesting)
The more reforms China forces on their companies the more expensive those goods become, and the less desirable it is to send manufacturing there. It's a race to the bottom only retarded by workers everywhere forcing conditions to change.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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A lot of the things you list are not provided by the employer, but the government.
And no cubicles? I worked in a place like that, and it sucked due to lack of privacy! Couldn't even sneak a peak at /. without everyone seeing.
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Arabic (to communicate to their tormentors).
Since when did Xe employees speak Arabic?
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How long do you think Belgium (and the rest of Europe) can afford this?
As long as those companies that wish to do business there are forced to participate in the social contract.
Once they ease that restriction, and allow them to offshore all their labor and dodge taxes left and right, then they'll be on the same path towards a corporate-controlled neo-fuedalist society that we are. The only reason American corporations get away with this shit is because our representatives allow them to. They're both at fault, but I'm not going to excuse the moral turpitude prevalent in corp
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TV didn't tell me anything. History did. One worker versus the company has no power, no authority, no ability to create incentive for the company to do anything. Most of the workers though, they have the ability to have power and authority and the ability to make the company do something when it's needed. Things like adjusting wages for the standard of living. Things like making the
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That sounds like good labor laws to me. It invites the next question, however: Apple - well, Foxconn - has built a manufacturing plant for iPads in Brazil, didn't they? So, apparently, manufacturing those things there is sufficiently cost-effective. Why, then, not manufacture them there for other countries, as well - including US?
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Cut him some slack, the a is only two keys away from the e and it didn't change the meaning of the sentence or make it hard to parse, like loose/lose or their/they're/there do.
How come the headlines never say... (Score:3, Interesting)
"Apple, and Dell, and Samsung, and Amazon, and Tosiba, and .... (insert evert other company producing consumer electronics here) ...partner Foxconn"
Guess only Apple shod be accountable or something?
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"Apple, and Dell, and Samsung, and Amazon, and Tosiba, and .... (insert [every] other company producing consumer electronics here) ...partner Foxconn"
None of those other companies really grab headlines these days.
Samsung and Amazon sure do. I'm no Apple fanboi but even I think there's a concerted astroturfing effort going on to tar Apple anytime a Foxconn story is released, or when anything comes out that can be spun as anti-Apple.
Anonymous reader, you're not fooling anyone.
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Perhaps, though I think the larger and more obvious astroturfing effort here is the anti-union sentiment.
Damn those corrupt unions wanting things like running water. Next you know, they'll be asking for bathrooms.
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Perhaps, though I think the larger and more obvious astroturfing effort here is the anti-union sentiment. Damn those corrupt unions wanting things like running water. Next you know, they'll be asking for bathrooms.
I thought that was just typical Murricanism. North American based business is pretty labour hostile from what I've seen.
If all unions did was lobby for better conditions, they wouldn't be despised quite so much. Instead, they let Jimmy Hoffa take them over, skim the top off retirement funds, union leaders set themselves up as little fiefdoms taking kickbacks from all over, and charge union dues. WTF does a union need to charge union dues for?!? Hookers and blow, of course.
Frankly, that sounds like democ
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WTF does a union need to charge union dues for?!?
Good negotiators don't come cheap, and that's what the union is for -- negotiating a contract, and making sure that the contract is honored by the employer. Sometimes the union has to sue the employer, and lawyers don't come cheap either. And those the workers employed to run their union need office space, and that ain't cheap either.
With a union you're almost guranteed to take home more money than your equivalent in a non-union shop, even after dues. Plus yo
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In this case it wouldn't be hard, as the plant in question makes XBoxes . But then they couldn't have claimed the news was "sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans." Because...I guess...Apple fans are defending Foxcomm's mistreatment of its employees, or something.
Re:How come the headlines never say... (Score:5, Informative)
IIRC, more than half of Foxconn's production is iStuff, all the other brands are under 10% each. So yeah, Apple has more say in that than Dell, Samsung, Amazon, Toshiba, and ...
If I remember correctly, you just make stuff up. But since neither of us has a citation, let's move on...
Foxconn apparently makes 40% of the world's electronics [nytimes.com] and its customers include Amazon, Apple, Dell, HP, and numerous others. If Apple is really selling 20% of the world's electronics, then the company is doing a lot better than anyone thought...
Mike Daisey fucked it all up. (Score:3)
After the retraction, I don't know if I even care if this is Apple at this point. Quite frankly I'd be surprised if this was at the plant producing Apple goods. The latest outbreak of suicides and protestations have been over the division that manufactures Xboxes, funny enough.
Not Apple's gear.
Re:Mike Daisey fucked it all up. (Score:4, Insightful)
After the retraction, I don't know if I even care if this is Apple at this point. Quite frankly I'd be surprised if this was at the plant producing Apple goods. The latest outbreak of suicides and protestations have been over the division that manufactures Xboxes, funny enough.
Not Apple's gear.
I notice a lot of people place a great deal of emphasis on whether it's Apple or not.
All things considered, that's pretty damn sad.
These workers are being mistreated and all you people can think about is whether it has something to do with Apple!
Whether or not Apple is evil is beside the point. Whether or not Apple has something to do with this particular incident in Brazil is beside the point. The point is, these workers are being mistreated, and the first thing you people think about is Apple! Frankly, that's fucking insane.
A lot of people place emphasis on it because the counter is true - Apple is being beaten with this stick, so when it's *not* anything to do with Apple, why is that suddenly wrong to point that out? This is not an attempt to justify worker abuse, but aiming the criticism at the right companies involved is a good start. Not to mention that making stuff up and claiming it is true (Mike Daisey) does more harm to your cause than anything else.
Apple (and others) need to be taken to task for sure, but unless the criticism is wielded accurately, people will simply assume you're the boy crying wolf again and stop taking the issue seriously, which is the worst thing that could happen.
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A lot of people place emphasis on it because the counter is true - Apple is being beaten with this stick, so when it's *not* anything to do with Apple, why is that suddenly wrong to point that out? This is not an attempt to justify worker abuse, but aiming the criticism at the right companies involved is a good start. Not to mention that making stuff up and claiming it is true (Mike Daisey) does more harm to your cause than anything else.
Apple (and others) need to be taken to task for sure, but unless the criticism is wielded accurately, people will simply assume you're the boy crying wolf again and stop taking the issue seriously, which is the worst thing that could happen.
According to TFA, they make iPhones and iPads at the factory in Brazil. I saw a couple ACs suggest it's all Microsoft's fault, but, personally, I wouldn't rely on their info.
Whether it's Apple or Microsoft or a combination of these and other companies, it's immaterial to the workers who have to deal with the bad working conditions. And we bear some of the responsibility for allowing this to happen by living in a culture valuing goods higher than decent treatment.
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I clearly care that it's abuse of human rights and labor abuse, BUT, I don't care if if it's apple or not.
That's why I said I don't care.
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It's not just to hide their money. This isn't about taxes. It's about logistics. The factory that supplies screens is down the road, the factory that supplies logic boards is a hop skip and a jump away, the factory that supplies cases is a short jaunt...
If you need to make a major change to production, it's easy as fuck.
Microsoft Factory? (Score:5, Informative)
Manaus and Indaiatuba are where phones are made, TFA states the workers threatening to strike are at the the Jundiaí factory. Isn't that where the xbox is made?
Re:Microsoft Factory? (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of products are made in Jundiai, Including iPhones as of December 2011.
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TFA states the workers threatening to strike are at the the Jundiaà factory. Isn't that where the xbox is made?
Astroturfing, much?
Pot, meet kettle.
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What's that sound? Ah yes, the sound of stampeding fanbois.
You'd have to dig pretty deep into my posting history to find anything that I've written lauding Apple. I guess that'd be a bit more work than spitting vitriolic contentless one liners, though.
Take the news as a grain of salt (Score:5, Informative)
Foxconn is in Brazil for serveral years. The main problem of water was reported as a temporary supply problem from the public water system, not Foxconn fault.
The second biggest problem was reported about the buses being overcrowded. This is most probably because Foxconn hired a lot of workes recently to increase its production and the guy responsible for transportation made a lousy job to handle the extra workers.
Also, the union president said the strike is very unlikely because Foxconn said it was already taking care of the situation. They aren't striking for salaries, bonus, or anything else related. The union just made a warning for Foxconn to act quickly.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Why are they annoyed? (Score:4, Informative)
More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans
I'd bet they're more ruffled by the fact that Apple gets credit for everything that happens in Foxconn anywhere......
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The report did not specifically say whether the workers threatening strike are working on iPad or iPhone production lines.
Singling out Apple here makes no more sense than singling out Microsoft.
Cultural comparison: Brazil vs China (Score:3)
If a sociologist were to get hold of this it would be interesting. Foxconn China vs. Foxconn Brazil. The parent company and the products remain constant, as do the sources of most of the parts, while what changes are local management, local laws, and local workers. So, if there were any systematic difference in manufacturing quality between the two locations, it might tell is some interesting things about differences in culture. Do workers in China or Brazil have better attention to detail? Better concern for precision? Better concern for what the inside of a product looks like vs. the outside, where tolerances allow differences?
My iPad 2, for instance, has a very minor manufacturing flaw. There is a plastic seal between the front glass and the metal that wraps around the sides, where along one bottom corner, the plastic protrudes slightly more. So there is room for variability in assembly that would be interesting to look at.
For Foxconn's sake, they could turn this into a benefit. Hey personnel A! Why aren't we doing better than personnel B?
In the US, we've kinda lost that competitive drive; we've adopted a culture of doing the minimum work for the maximum pay, but maybe Brazil and China have different values.
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The same goes for Fender Stratocaster electric guitars: You want the American made one, failing that, a Japanese. The Mexican (and I'm assuming Chinese) built Strats have poorer quality control, cheaper parts.
Just do all the work in the US (Score:2)
If that increases the price of them $250/unit, that won't actually stop most of the noisy radicals who of course already own several of their own Apple products.
Apple fans == Insensitive clods? (Score:2)
Really? Are we such a deadened society that we think product allegiance equates to willful negligence of human rights?
Somehow I get the feeling most "Apple fans" also care about the humane treatment of other human beings. Implying that loyal Apple users care more about the image of their chosen computer company than human rights is just silly sensationalist headlining.
Oh yeah. Slashdot.
Anti-apple today arent we? (Score:2)
Foxconn supplies most every major tech firm on the planet with something. Apple just happens to be one of the larger ones.
Why is there an Apple logo attached to this story? (Score:2)
flame baiting troll (Score:2)
the first line of the /. post shows that the scum bucket coward is just posting this as flame-bait.
"More bad news comes from Apple's iDevice manufacturing partner Foxconn that is sure to ruffle the feathers of Apple fans."
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Someone is wanting more bribes
Actual work conditions are irrelevant, as long as union leadership is compensated accordingly
That might be part of it, but labor laws in Brazil are much more strict than in most other places in the world. It is pretty common to hear people, especially in blue-collar jobs, to publicly complain about working conditions to pressure the companies to follow the law.
The working conditions there are certainly not even close to what you would see in China, but that doesn't mean this is just about bribery.
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Possibly.
But once upon a time, the unions were about bettering things for their members.
It's just possible that in Brazil, unions are still at that point.
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US union laws != Brazilian union laws.
As I understand it, the US is pretty much the only country with corrupt unions. At the very least union corruptions seems much lower in most first world country.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuckin' A right.
Imagine if they publicized the underhanded shit done by the banks/corporate America with as much diligence. Hell, imagine if American citizens had to work a few months in one of those Foxconn factories...how long would it be before this whole "oh, those poor, poor multibillion dollar corporations that are making more money than they ever have in history are forced to employ slave labor on the other side of the world" nonsense went out the fucking window?
Half the people in this country still believe they're going to be part of that club of the super wealthy one day, and until that changes, we're going to continue being ruled by the real parasites on society, limited liability corporations.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
-1, only in America are unions hated so much. You'll never see positive union viewpoints on the news without them being portrayed as combative.
Re:Translation (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Translation (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, bullshit. We pay just the same price as we did for our consumer goods, the only difference is, with the full-scale assault on unions that started in the 80's, and rampant inflation, the purchasing power of the average American worker has stagnated for 30 years. Business aren't "forced" to do anything, they make a conscious decision to move operations overseas because it increases their bottom line. Those savings weren't passed along to consumers, they were passed along to CEO's, which is why today they make orders of magnitude more a year than they did back in those days. The "trickle down" bullshit is a myth, because the wealth never fucking trickles down. A billionaire getting another billion a year isn't going to do shit for the economy at all, but 100,000 people with an extra $10,000 a year in their pocket sure as fuck will.
It always cracks me up when people throw up union corruption but never fucking acknowledge the antisocial and outright damaging antics of the greed of these fucking asshole "job creators" on the other side of the coin. Terrorists, gangs, welfare queens...none of them are nearly as damaging to our economy as these goddamn parasites we call "corporations" that use every legal mechanism at their disposal (as well as some illegal ones) to avoid paying one single penny in taxes despite the fact that billions are pouring into their coffers every year. A single mother that loses her job is a parasite when she's reduced to applying for food stamps, but corporations sucking in billions in subsidies and tax breaks, while at the same time earning billions a year in profit, they're what? Something to celebrate? Fine, upstanding members of the community? Give me a fucking break.
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We pay just the same price as we did for our consumer goods
In 1979, an 80-column dot-matrix printer (with no descenders) for my TRS-80 cost $1000, which is $2900 in today's dollars. Today, you can buy a laser printer for under a hundred bucks.
From VCRs to coffee machines there's about a zillion other examples.
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No, that 80 column dot matrix would still be running today. Apples to oranges comparison you make.
No, that Radio Shack printer (rebranded Centronics) died repeatedly - Bad power supply, crappy tractor feed, destroyed solenoids pounding against a steel platen. And don't get me started on the nightmarish printer ribbon feed mechanism - It was an impossible mess.
The $200 craptastic laser printer won't be running 4 years from now.
I bought my HP 1012 in late 2003 and it's still going strong nearly nine
Re:Translation (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup, nowhere except America manages to so completely miss the point of unions. In most of the world, unions work like this:
A group of people are elected to represent the workers. If there are unreconcilable difference of opinion between groups of workers, then you get two or more unions. Each can negotiate with the employers on behalf of their members, and can pretty much guarantee that the deal that they reach will be agreed to by most of their members because they actually represent their members. If you disagree with all of the unions, you are not forced to join any of them. Any deal negotiated by the unions is open to all workers, irrespective of union membership.
Meanwhile, in the USA, they work like this:
To get the job, you must be a member of the union. If you are not, then you must join immediately. There is only one union that represents people in your position. Only employees can be union officials, and anyone who gets elected without being open to bribes finds that they no longer have a job and must therefore resign. You must accept the deal negotiated between the company and their, sorry, your representative or you lose your job.
Re:Translation (Score:4, Interesting)
To get the job, you must be a member of the union. If you are not, then you must join immediately. There is only one union that represents people in your position. Only employees can be union officials, and anyone who gets elected without being open to bribes finds that they no longer have a job and must therefore resign. You must accept the deal negotiated between the company and their, sorry, your representative or you lose your job.
You'd be surprised. I've traveled a lot lately, and i find it to work this way in most of the world. As a closer example: i live in Argentina. Joining an union is a de facto requirement in order to get a job on several industries (transport, particularly trucking, metal, food... even general commerce).
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I find your lack of self-awareness disturbing.
Obviously, because if the workers want to enjoy the pay and benefits won by the union, they should become dues paying members of said union. Obviously. If you worked hard at negotiating yourself a raise yet someone off the street piggybacked off your efforts without lifting a finger on t
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but I bet you never worked in a union shop or one that was trying to organize.
I think you've just lived long enough to hear a few stories thirdhand and think you now know God's truth.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
I did actually - union shops are as illegal in Argentina as they are in the rest of the world, yet good luck trying to get a job without an union membership in a lot of industries. In most cases (transport), you'll only get one union to choose from.
Hope that gives you a little insight on me instead of all that betting and guessing.
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And how is shutting the fuck up going to improve conditions?
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Whee, let's just race all the way to the fucking bottom! "What gives you the right to complain about your gruel, serf?!? There are people in Africa that don't even have gruel to eat! We'll show you, we'll just move our factory there instead!!"
I suppose we should just be grateful these companies allow us to draw breath at all.
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Is it really a good idea to use slaves to produce delicate electronics?
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You do know that the plant in question makes Xboxes?
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Who cares it's a chance to bash apple! Lets not facts get in the way.
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That's funny, because on my Android I don't get the mobile version. I thought there wasn't one.