Macbook Owner With Defective GPU Beats Apple In Court 280
New submitter RockoW writes "A few years ago, Apple sold defective computers of the MacBook Pro line. They had the defective Nvidia 8600M GT GPU. In this case Apple refused to take the computer back and issue me a refund. Instead, they promised to replace the 8600M GT boards when they failed, up to four years from the date of purchase. Three years later, the MacBook Pro failed and they refused to replace it. This guy took them to the court and won by their own means."
If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Informative)
For more details on the problem check this link [apple.com]. Here's the header:
I'm surprised anyone has been refused replacement inside 4 years. I bet I've repaired around 170 of these units for this problem, and I have only just recently started seeing Apple refuse a warranty repair, because the computers are starting to cross 4 years old. The only time I see problems of this nature is if they purchase old stock and don't register. Apple assumes a computer is sold 30 days after manufacture if you don't send in your registration. If you need warranty service and are on the edge you may need to submit your proof of purchase to update your purchase date on record with Apple to get warranty coverage. Maybe that played into this case?
And this problem stems not from Apple, but from Nvidia. I started seeing this issue on new machines a few months after this model was first released, and Apple started going rounds with Nvidia around the 10 month mark, just before these machines were going to start falling out of the 1 year warranty. Nvidia insisted this was not a defect and refused to cover anything. We had to start refusing repairs for some machines after the 1 year mark. Then about 2 months after that I found that Apple had gotten sick of Nvidia stalling and denying, and decided to cover these repairs, before they had even gotten Nvidia to budge. Apple sent notice to users that had paid for a repair that would now be considered covered, and refunds were issued. Apple started the repair extension program for this issue and covered repairs from that point forward. This was months before Nvidia was forced to accept responsibility and start reimbursing Apple for the defect.
So I find it unfortunate that Apple is receiving a lot of FUD and bad press on this. They do tend to go the extra mile for their customers, they're consistently rated at the TOP for customer service. They were footing the bill for Nvidia's screw-up long before they were guaranteed of getting anything back. Try to find an example of that from any of the other computer manufacturers out there.
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>>>Try to find an example of that from any of the other computer manufacturers out there
My Commodore Plus/4 died after just 1.1 years, so even though the warranty had already expired, Commodore gave me a brand-new 128. Has Apple ever done anything like that (free upgrade to the latest model Mac)?
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Insightful)
They were footing the bill for Nvidia's screw-up
No, they were footing the bill for their own screw-up. The part may have been defective, and nVidia may have made it, but Apple approved it for use in their own products based on, clearly, insufficient validation that the part met their standards. In the real world, that's how it works.
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, when all the litigation amongst the companies shook out, it turns out that Nvidia is footing the bill for their own screw-up. [cnet.com]
As much as it pains me to defend Apple's corporate behavior in any matter, Nvidia was clearly in the wrong. Apple had no advance knowledge of Nvidia's bad engineering and dishonest documentation. The GPUs failed after time and use, so only an unrealistically long engineering evaluation period by any customer of Nvidia's parts would have uncovered the issue. Apple was boned, and Nvidia did the boning.
This little peccadillo on Nvidia's part is how they wound up on my "never buy" list.
The Inquirer chased the story quite intensively back in the 2009 timeframe. This query [theinquirer.net] will give you the list of the articles there that might provide a bit of context to this story.
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:4, Informative)
This technically wasn't even a manufacturing defect. It was a specifications defect. Nvidia provides manufacturers with very detailed information on their raw products, including cooling requirements.
Tomato, tomato. The distinction is important for correcting the problem, but not for avoiding the consequences.
If I'm a cabinet manufacturer and I order hinges that are rated at 100,000 operations I expect them to last that long on the average, you can't expect me to make some cabinets and then open and close them 50,000 times to make sure the hardware is as durable as the manufacturer claims it is before selling any. Manufactures have to put some trust in their OEMs' specs.
They don't have to; they choose to because it's usually cheaper. The fact is that in this case, it turned out to be more expensive, but on the whole it's still a gain I'm sure. I can tell you for a fact that you don't take the manufacturer at their word when you put together a sub or a space shuttle; you test everything before acceptance and then perform NDT on every piece before it's used in production. While I don't expect Apple or any consumer goods manufacturer to go to those lengths (because it's quite expensive), most electronic manufacturers test samples (including Apple) and with some examples failing within weeks, this was surely a case of insufficient testing. Apple decided to replace them as they failed rather than issuing a voluntary recall, and that's their prerogative, but to claim they had no responsibility is just absurd.
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Informative)
So I find it unfortunate that Apple is receiving a lot of FUD and bad press on this.
Because they don't deserve it for refusing to honour the promise they made and having to be taken to court over it?
"wouldn't boot"? (Score:4, Informative)
"wouldn't boot" is pretty general... Apple's Repair Extension Programs cover specific models, for a limited additional duration, that are demonstrating specific symptoms which are being caused by a very specific problem.
We get people in from time to time with a computer that has an REP on that model, and they're expecting Apple to cover something else out of warranty. And we get people demanding we "fix" the computer simply because there is an REP on that model even though it's working fine. That's not how REPs work. (we had a school show up with a panel van FULL of emacs that were listed on an REP, we tested ALL of them and repaired TWO)
If it powered on, and chimed (possibly after clearing pram to turn the volume back up) but showed no video, and could be heard to boot up (hdd access) and possibly even get interaction from it (turning volume up and down and hearing the reply) and external video was also dead, THAT should be covered and I would be surprised if they didn't cover it. All AASPs were given a special tool to test the computer and verify the problem also, and this test could be run after the video was out, OR before it was out, and could identify a computer that was beginning to fail, even if the symptoms were very minor or infrequent. If it was demonstrating symptoms, this test should have been run on your computer. Users tend to put off taking computers in for service, so only about 3% of the machines I saw with this problem still had usable video by the time they checked them in.
However, if it failed to turn on, or failed to post at all, no, that's not the issue the REP was for, that's not a video problem, and you were not entitled to coverage by this REP. I also ran into a couple that were having "no video" problems but that didn't fail the special test app, those users had to pay for their repair because it was the same part, but not the same cause.
I won't say that every AASP and Apple Store does the right thing. I'm just sayin' how it's supposed to work, and how I make it work here. If you still think they didn't react correctly, call applecare (even now) and talk with them about it. I've seen them make things right for people outwards of 5 years after purchase, with a discount on a new machine for example.
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And now that there is a precedent Apple will have to make good on EVERY similar failed Macbook. And thanks to /. every geek that owns one knows this.
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It's not like all parts were defective
Because of the nvidia thing they extended the warrantee from 1 year to 4 for free on the affected part.
The problem is the damage caused by an overheating GPU extends beyond the GPU itself. I'm not sure how Apple, HP, or any other manufacturer got away with replacing the GPU with the same known-to-be-defective GPU in the first place. All in all, if Apple provided a 4 year replacement for the part, it sure beats the 1 year extended warranty service, with a 90 day warranty after each service, that HP provided.
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:If You're Going To Make Promises ... (Score:4, Informative)
This reminds me of Toyota refusing to replace engines that had failed after only ~25,000 miles. They claimed the blame belonged to the customer, and forced owners to shell-out ~$6000 on new engines for their 1-2 year old cars/trucks.
Nope, never happened. You have failed twice [slashdot.org] now [slashdot.org] to back up that claim with proof (and been called out both [slashdot.org] times [slashdot.org], and not just by me [slashdot.org]), therefore we are forced to conclude that you [slashdot.org] are [slashdot.org] lying.
And if the only "proof" you can provide is another lmgtfy link, don't bother. I told you before I'm not doing your work for you. You make a claim, back it up or be prepared to get called out for it. You wouldn't turn in a research paper without properly citing your sources, would you?
It just works. (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember that slogan. Not too long ago even. Before that it was "Think different" and buy the most common mp3 player on the planet. I dislike apple because I dislike marketing, and Apple is like an avatar of marketing; the essence of style over substance given form.
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"... Apple is like an avatar of marketing; the essence of style over substance given form."
I disagree entirely. That is to say, I do dislike some of the things Apple does, but it's not "style over substance" at all.
Contrary to popular belief, most consumers aren't stupid. There is a reason it became the #1 mp3 player on the market: superior design and execution. Among other things, iPods had the most usable and intuitive interfaces. They have been copied but still not equalled.
There is plenty of substance.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So many of you marketing haters forget that their gear actually fucking performs, esp. in the hands of a skilled user.
Mod up, we have someone who knows how to hold their iToys right! Everyone, crowd around his wisdom and experience, we have much to learn.
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. . .esp. in the hands of a skilled user.
Current Apple products are intended for the mass-market consumer. On shouldn't have to be some kind of elite user in order to enjoy an advantage.
BTW, I also use Apple gear every day in my line of work (mostly desktop stuff), and I am writing this from a store bought Mac that just had to have its failing hard drive replaced (which it took some "genius" four days to complete).
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I have to agree.
There are more powerful devices then Apple ones, but how you interact with them also counts for something.
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"in the hands of a skilled user"
And precisely what skills does it take to make Apple gear perform?
A strong whip hand?
The ability to use subtle innuendo?
A lack of technical acumen?
More to the point though, isn't Apple's pitch to the unskilled user of computers? It just works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCmUAWn_DlU [youtube.com]
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They may be stylish, but they also PERFORM.
As long as you don't hold it wrong...
Not what you think (Score:4, Interesting)
I did in warrantied repairs for an Apple authorized service provider for two years. I can't tell you how many of these repairs apple picked up the tab on. I have never seen another computer company take as much responsibility as they have on this issue. The repair to replace the logic board that contained the defective GPU was a $1700 repair from a third-party authorized repair center and I did an average of 2 to 3 a week for 2 years.
Try stacking up those numbers against any other computer companies defective products in what they did to fix them
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Re read. 1700 to replace the logic board. The board cost 1400 itself from apple. That is the whole board that makes up the computer. Just an FYI
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Its the motherboard+GPU thats being replaced right? (Atleast thats the way it is in my laptop, maybe Macbooks are special, IDK)
Then again, my entire laptop cost $700
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I haven't seen a removable GPU or CPU in a laptop for years (probably since 2005), and even then most of the laptops I've seen the CPU was in the board (going all the way back to an 8088 laptop I have).
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It has a CPU socket like a desktop, you can upgrade the processor yourself as well (the socket itself is quite different from a Desktop socket, but it has one, and replacing the CPU is a relatively trivial process)
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Yea, these were laptops, it's not a $1700 video card/GPU like in a desktop. Replacing the mobo/logic board/system board is basically swapping out the entire computer.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah and? That's too much money. When I owned a MBP I had a horrible time getting apple to fix anything, as a matter of fact they regularly denied problems and their people seemed to be instructed to all tell me that anything wrong with my machine was "something they'd never seen before, huh" Every person I talked to on the phone seemed to say this, every person at the apple store said this.. it was always very forced and unnatural and unprompted. This was on problems that seemed to be very common on in
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The cost of replacement boards is high due to small supply, not due to cost of manufacturing (because manufacturing is what they're no longer doing).
iGPU (Score:2)
It's an iGPU - not just a regular GPU. It's welded to a lot of other things. All of those things have to be replaced.
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I did in warrantied repairs for an Apple authorized service provider for two years. I can't tell you how many of these repairs apple picked up the tab on. I have never seen another computer company take as much responsibility as they have on this issue. The repair to replace the logic board that contained the defective GPU was a $1700 repair from a third-party authorized repair center and I did an average of 2 to 3 a week for 2 years.
Try stacking up those numbers against any other computer companies defective products in what they did to fix them
it's not like they had any choice on picking up the tab. they were known to be defective(anyhow, due to accounting/tax reasons it's helpful for them to upmark the replacement board which they were "paying" for.)..
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Of course promising four years of free repairs and then only doing three is a dick move. I'd expect more from Apple.
Re:Not what you think (Score:4, Informative)
The repair to replace the logic board that contained the defective GPU was a $1700 repair from a third-party authorized repair center and I did an average of 2 to 3 a week for 2 years.
From the article: "At one point, the judge asked Apple how much it would have cost them to have simply replaced my logic board when I had taken it in, and one of the Apple guys said “Oh, it wouldn’t have cost us anything, Nvidia foots the bill for each board we replace.”"
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Microsoft's infamous problems with the XBox 360 overheating RROD problems come to mind. AFAIK they handled that pretty well, I have never owned an MS console though so I have no personal experience.
Nintendo replaced my GBA and my copy of Mario Kart GBA for free when the warranty was technically voided (I had dropped my GBA one too many times and only that specific game failed to work, though ot
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Try stacking up those numbers against any other computer companies defective products in what they did to fix them.
Microsoft, during the RROD debacle with the Xbox 360s. Dell, HP, Compaq, etc., after selling defective batteries and adapters that would explode. HP, for selling printers, faxes, and copiers that would catch fire. Sony Viao's, which would overheat...
Just because Apple made an expensive mistake doesn't mean it should get more respect for owning up to it. In fact, Apple has a reputation for coming up with odd explanations for denying a service request. Similar stories are never heard from other OEM vendors b
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I did in warrantied repairs for an Apple authorized service provider for two years. I can't tell you how many of these repairs apple picked up the tab on. I have never seen another computer company take as much responsibility as they have on this issue. The repair to replace the logic board that contained the defective GPU was a $1700 repair from a third-party authorized repair center and I did an average of 2 to 3 a week for 2 years.
Try stacking up those numbers against any other computer companies defective products in what they did to fix them
What is your point? That they are great because they repaired some of those broken computers?
Amusing.
I Had One Of These (Score:2)
To my surprise, Apple covered the repair as a "known issue" even though the machine was long out of warranty and I did not have an AppleCare policy. Not only that, the part was overnighted to the shop and it was done in under 24 hrs.
I have no reason to be anything but im
One guy had a problem, won a legitimate lawsuit (Score:2)
As anecdotal examples go...
My MBPro was affected by the problem. I knew about it, and a little over 3 years after purchase (extended warranty had expired) the telltale symptoms started appearing (horizontal stripes on the screen). I scheduled an appointment, took my machine in to the Apple Store, and Apple replaced the video card, no questions asked. Took about 2 days because they didn't have the part on hand in-store.
Re:One guy had a problem, won a legitimate lawsuit (Score:4, Informative)
Apple just replaced by 6 year old iPod (Score:2)
they arent terrible, i guess... they replace 6 year old products..
they just replaced my 2005 1gig iPod Nano with a new 6th generation 8gig iPod nano... for free, only took a little over a week.
Apple has determined that, in very rare cases, the battery in the iPod nano (1st generation) may overheat and pose a safety risk. Affected iPod nanos were sold between September 2005 and December 2006...Apple recommends that you stop using your iPod nano (1st gen) and follow the process noted below to order a replacem
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Why should it take a whole week to replace something? You should be able to walk into an Apple store and have it done pretty much instantaneously.
I had a Mini that needed a brain transplant. An exchange would have be simpler since they ended up reformatting it anyways. That would have saved me the week or so being without a machine.
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On one hand, yes. On the other hand, we're talking about them replacing a 5 year out of warranty iPod Nano. Who gives a shit if you're without it for a week? It's an iPod!
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Darn. I sold my 1st gen Nano on Ebay. Oh well.
Opposite Anecdote (Score:5, Interesting)
That's strange... I had this exact same problem and Apple replaced my motherboard for free when the time came. I wonder why they denied it for him?
Re:Opposite Anecdote (Score:4, Interesting)
Because the machine failed to boot. If the GPU failed, it'd boot but no image on screen.
Which apple thusly correctly blamed on other parts of the logic board.
While Apple is technically correct here, the failure on Apple's part is customer satisfaction. They should've replaced the board. I think the Judge was right in categorizing any logic board failure as being within the scope of that replacement program too.
Apple's not evil, they're just dicks though. Evil would've been to deny the problem ever existed, or to replace affected machine owners with lower class machines, like some OEMs did.
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I do recall the guy going to plug an external hard drive with a label saying something like "GPU Test" on it. My impression was they boot from that drive and it runs some sort of, well, GPU test. The way my GPU failed though just displayed ridiculous graphical corruption on the screen, so when the tech powered it on and saw the screen he just said "yup, that's a GPU failure" and skipped any further testing.
Apple replaced my logic board 4 yrs out (Score:2)
Same thing happened to me. My Macbook Pro motherboard fried about 4 yrs out. Apple replaced the motherboard for free; no questions asked. The bill was $1,200 b/f Apple waived it.
They also replaced my iPhone screen when 1 pixel went bad for free...no questions asked...2 months after my 1 yr warranty had expired.
Oh Apple.... you abusive jackhole... (Score:2)
The judge and everyone else wondered "why, Apple, if it cost you nothing to accept the repair, did you have to pay two employees to take time off work in order to defend an indefensible case?" The answer, which they couldn't state, is that most people accept what they are told by Apple as the truth... and most people STILL DO. That once-in-a-while a customer with a valid complaint actually brought them to court and won does not break their winning business model. Most people will take it up the butt when
A counter-example, of sorts. (Score:2)
First, I'm glad he won. It shouldn't have gotten to that point, but he did what he had to do.
I am typing on one of the affected machines now. The 8600M GT in this one failed in January of this year, 4 yrs & 4 months after purchase. Apple refused to replace it under warranty because it was beyond 4 years. I was not happy about that.
Contrary to some previous posts, repair cost for these machines isn't $1000+. In store repair quote was around $450. However, Apple also offers "depot service", flat rate repa
Toshiba and the Nvidia Geforce Go 7900 GS (Score:3)
I had the same failure arise with the Nvidia Geforce Go 7900 GS chipset in a Toshiba Satellite P105-S9337 model laptop. The laptop was out of warranty. In this instance, though, the graphics were a separate discrete board. After being fully ignored by Toshiba, I began looking for used, refurbished, or 'pre-owned' replacements. I had also modded the laptop to force the GPU fan to draw power from a nearby USB port, thus forcing it to run continuously in the hope of preventing symptoms. (It didn't, really.) I knew the chipset itself was essentially defective, but it's not a guarantee that every chip will fail, so I was hoping to get lucky. I found an eBay seller, a liquidation business, that was selling a whole batch of allegedly refurbished ones, and for much less than I had seen them previously. I purchased two. One of the two boards was still faulty, and the seller replaced it; the other one wasn't actually what I had ordered: in fact it was a Geforce Go 7900 GTX, a slightly upscale version and with more onboard VRAM. I discovered that it was compatible with my system, though I was concerned about the potential heat generation. I wound up keeping both, installing the replaced 7900 GS and keeping the 7900 GTX as a spare. Thus far the laptop has continued working, but I certainly suffered a substantial net loss over the whole affair, in actual material cost and labor and time. I wish I'd had the opportunity and courage to do what this fellow did, but since I has a system out of warranty it would have been more difficult.
I also had a similar problem with a cherished 21-inch Nokia CRT monitor years ago. Six years after I bought it, it failed. I wanted very much to get it repaired. I discovered that in the meantime Nokia had abandoned the display market, selling its brand name to Viewsonic and the manufacturing to another Finnish company. When I contacted Viewsonic, they told me there were no spare parts for it, and refused to replace it with an equivalent Viewsonic model (which I really didn't want). That Finnish company had apparently stopped making Nokia display parts, and Viewsonic refused to otherwise honor its obligations from acquiring the brand name. I even contacted Nokia and tried to persuade them to pressure Viewsonic, but nothing came of it. I didn't create enough of a public relations fiasco. I finally contacted numerous third-party repair services, but each one also told me nothing could be done as parts were not available.
You might be thinking to yourself, "Dude, it's six years old, what do you expect?" I happen to live in California, and this state has a so-called "lemon law" that attempts to force manufacturers to not... well, sell lemons! It stipulates that any product - not just the automobiles with which it's usually associated - with a manufactured cost over $100 should be repairable for a period of no less than 7 years from the date of manufacture. That means the manufacture is obligated to make available the parts and service materials necessary for repairs for those 7 years, and if not to otherwise make amends for failure to do so.
Obviously Viewsonic had failed to do that. Because of that lemon law I had an open and shut case, had I taken Viewsonic to court here in California. I didn't, but again I wish I had.
My point in sharing these anecdotes is that this is a consistent pattern of behavior with all manufacturers, not just one or two or a handful of them. It's endemic to the system we've allowed to take hold. It's this unfair system that makes consumers the inferior party in transactions with these manufacturers that motivated California's lemon law in the first place. It SHOULD be a Federal law applicable in every state. Better yet a globally recognized law.
umm (Score:3)
Really? Because the sheer volume of replacements that would have ensued would have damaged Apple's partner relationship with nvidia. There's your answer.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple charges top dollar for their hardware.
You would feel bad about "picking on them" for why?
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm amazed at how nVidia tried pawning this one on the OEMs, insisting nothing is wrong when thousands of HP, Dell, Lenovo, and Apple Laptops were having GPU blowouts.
The 8800 also gets lots of attention, but the Geforce Go 6150 and 7200 chips delaminate in huge quantities as well. My HP laptop was sent away once on warranty work when the wireless card dropped out (first sign of a failure). It's now dissapeared again and out of warranty. Surprising the lazy-man reflow actually works:
-Remove battery and HDD
-Turn machine on and wrap in blankets
-Allow to cook for a couple hours.
-Replace battery and HDD.
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After nVidia caused thousands of users to pay to repair their laptops or replace the computer,
If you had read the furfuraceous article, you would know that nVidia would actually refund the entire cost of the repair to the manufacturer. Only problem, Apple decided it was more fun to screw the customer anyway.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Apple is responsible for the products it supplies. It is up to Apple to seek damages from Nvidia, not the consumers.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Informative)
In my case, the GPU wasn't at fault, it was Apple's faulty application of heat sink compound that caused the chip to fail.
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That was blamed, but Apple was hardly the only manufacturer with this problem - my ASUS laptop had its GPU blow twice, once well after the problem was revealed and that chip actually lasted about a year longer than its replacement (unfortunately, the laptop was out of warranty by the second failure), so I personally feel the 8600M line was defective and prone to overheating and that nVidia was covering it up. The die shrink that was the same architecture but reduced heat had a MUCH lower failure rate (the 9
Agreement (Score:5, Insightful)
The customer had the documentation to prove his case, and he won.
Re:Agreement (Score:5, Funny)
That can't be right...
How could that customer create forgeries and attack Apple and get away with it?!
The nerve of some people.
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Agreed. Fuck this guy.
He should be banished from Apple Island and be forced to walk the cursed earth... using Windows Phone.
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And lo, it is written in the Book of Jobs that whosoever should cast aspersions upon the Name of Apple and contradict the infallible Word of Dogcow shall be cast from the Kingdom of iHeaven to forever walk the cursed earth with phones containing the mark of the Green Beast, That Which Holds Back Enlightenment. And when the time of His second coming occurs, the earth-walkers and their foul Green Beast shall be destroyed by His Disapproving Glare and the believers shall inherit the iEarth. So it was written
Re:Agreement (Score:5, Funny)
Agreed. Fuck this guy.
He should be banished from Apple Island and be forced to walk the cursed earth... using Windows Phone.
I think that forcing Windows Phone on him counts as cruel and unusual punishment.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because Apple is the company which promised to replace his laptop up to 4 years after the date of purchase if it failed but then refused to replace it 3 years later?
Sure, the problem is with the GPU, but since Apple itself *promised* to do something for a customer, they should respect their own words.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not an excuse. They are a "premium luxury" brand. If they couldn't do right by the customer with the parts they had on hand then they should have given the customer a better replacement.
THIS is what separates the real "quality" brands from the ones that are just over hyped by mindless consipicous consumers.
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If they couldn't do right by the customer with the parts they had on hand then they should have given the customer a better replacement.
And that's just what HP did for me when it was determined that my Compaq laptop was a lemon. They didn't just give me an equivelant Compaq, they gave me a near top of the line HP.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Wow, a top of the line lemon. Good job!
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I'm typing this on a MacBook that Apple gave me. You see, my previous had failed and been repaired twice. On the third failure, they gave me a brand new machine. Not identical to the old one, but a brand new one. This is Apple's "three strikes" policy. If a machine needs a third repair, in warrenty or under Apple Care, jus
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer. Take a look at the HP DV series of laptops for example. Why are we picking on Apple and not the GPU manufacturers here?
maybe because Apple reneged on their promise. That's reason enough.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Nvidia settled a class action lawsuit about these GPUs.
(link: http://www.techspot.com/news/43614-customers-get-shafted-in-nvidia-class-action-suit.html [techspot.com])
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Which screwed everyone (Score:5, Informative)
The terms of the class action suit were not favorable for the consumers, as your link states. For replacements from HP, everyone got the same Compaq budget 15" notebook, which retailed at around $270 at the time that the notebook owners received their replacements. Many of the consumers, including myself, had purchased notebooks which cost well over $1000. It is argued by some, that since prices have lowered since the initial purchase, the replacement notebook was comparable to the one initially purchased. This was untrue in my case. It also doesn't take into account that many of these notebooks were unusable during the years it took for a class action lawsuit to take place, and replacement notebooks awarded.
In my case, it is basically as if I purchased two $1200 notebooks, and didn't have them shipped to me until 3 years later. By the time I got them, I found out they weren't even the correct specs. Since it was 3 years later, I could have gotten much more for $1200.
The suit pitted the consumers against nvidia themselves, bypassing the computer manufacturers. I don't think this was an appropriate action. The manufacturers share some blame. They took the payoffs from nvidia to replace the GPUs under warranty, until the warranties ran out and it was all swept under the rug. At the time, the manufacturers knew the replacement parts were a time-bomb waiting to fail. They didn't care, because nvidia was funding them to do the repairs anyway. So, the manufacturers were making money by *not* replacing the GPU with a non-defective GPU.
In the case of HP, they lied about replacing the GPU with another defective GPU, and slapped a 90 day warranty on the service work. When I complained to them, and the BBB, they lied and said they replaced it with a different model GPU. My own eyes and lspci spoke a different story.
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cool story bro but apple sold it to consumer and the boards were only replaceable by apple and only available through apple..
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Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they admitted in court that it would not cost them anything to fix it, nVidia was paying the bill, but they still refused and they didn't even have an argument on why they were refusing. They just wanted to make it hard for their customer. RTFA, the description of how the trial went is comedy gold.
I've had enough horror stories with with Apple products around me to not be surprised, it seems that for every iphone they replace no-questions-asked they void the warranty on a few iMacs just to balance it out. Since the average apple customer thinks Apple can do no wrong, these incidents usually don't generate any fuss.
Good for the OP!
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Actually, they did... it just wasn't a very good argument.
Their argument basically amounted to the company simply adhering to its own policies... although admittedly the article was sketchy on what policies those were that would actually deny the repair.
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Pedantic much?
They didn't have an argument that made sense or could stand in court. Which is usually what we usually mean when we say "didn't have an argument", sorry to confuse you.
Anyway, why don't you simply RTFA? There is a lengthy and satisfying description of the proceedings. I guess the policy you are looking for is "it won’t boot so we won’t repair it" (which is exactly what the flaw that needs to be repaired causes) - a policy similar to the one Yossarian was up against
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer.
And Apple is one of the few who gets apologists jumping in to defend them by pointing this out.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
You've got it backwards.
It's the shills and apologists that breed haters.
If there were less mindless hype surrounding Apple, there would simply be less of a story here. Although if Apple just lived up to their supposed reputation there wouldn't have been any story at all.
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Okay, fine, I'll concede to it being a cycle. You're still not going to shut up any apologists even if they are, like in this story, clearly in the wrong. They'll try harder the next time around.
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I don't hate Apple.
I hate their fans, because they seem to believe Apple is god (i.e. flawless). There was a time I would have said Amiga was better than Apple, and Apple was better than Microsoft (90s).
For that reason I used Amigas and Macs frequently, but with the stability of the Windows NT OS (specficially XP and 7), there's very little difference. Yes MS has flaws but so too does Apple; to pretend apple is flawless seems ridiculous. THAT is why her fans annoy me.
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Apple breeds haters by being evil. The haters hate evil, see? Apple is just a high concentration of evil, that is why it attracts haters.
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What double standard? There's plenty of hate on other companies. Google, MS, Facebook, Sony, you name it.
Yeah, they all have equal hate, that's why Microsoft has never been mentioned here as working with Foxconn, right?
Haters don't breed apologists. Fanboys do.
Heh. Yeah, people just kept coming out of the woodwork and started apologizing for no reason. Haters, sick of the apologies coming from out of nowhere, decided to combat them by finding stories that made the fanboys' company look bad.
Yeah, you really thought that one through, didn't you?
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it's up to Apple to replace the Apple hardware. They are then free to seek damages from the GPU manufacturer.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Informative)
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Agreed. After probably spending $50k on apple products over the years this makes me not want to another thing from them.
They have become too big and profitable for their own good and as a result don't seem to care about the customers who made them that way. Classic biting the hand that feeds them.
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This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer. Take a look at the HP DV series of laptops for example. Why are we picking on Apple and not the GPU manufacturers here?
Because this story is about Apple, not HP or Nvidia. RTFA.
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Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
dunno, but if I bought a lotus from lotus and it blew up I'd complain to lotus - not to the company that was contracted to do the piece that broke. it's not like brembo(or whatever) is responsible to consumers for toyotas brake problems..
toyotas brakes fail and people don't go complaining to brembo..
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If I knew that video card 123abc had a record of failing I would avoid that video card in any product no matter who it was from. Then again I try to be an informed customer. Not everyone is. As others have stated, people go to the company they bought the item from when it fails.
Apple is a pain in the ass when it come to their stuff breaking. They have their own tools and tests that they run. For example: we have an iMac with bad memory. Memtest shows errors every time. We bring the under warrantee iMac to A
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because this is Slashdot. Apple is that evil bad nasty walled-garden company that makes products those filthy commoners like...
No. I'm a Mac user, and Apple has always done the right thing if something went wrong with the hardware on my computer, but in this case they were wrong. They went back on a promise, they should be held responsible.
Re:Cool, but... (Score:4, Funny)
I find it sad that I actually want to applaud you on here for managing to distinguish your personal anecdotal experience from the given situation and make clear, sound judgements based on available information. Did you RTFA too??
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cool, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
In TFA, the author noted that one of the ironies was that Apple said in court that Nvidia would pay for the replacement. However, the thing that struck me was his revelation that he had received lots of contacts from people who have also had the same kind of failure and have paid Apple or trashed their machines. It seems pretty obvious that the reason Apple probably spent more than the cost of satisfying this guy's claim was to prevent a precedent's being set in a large class-action suit against them.
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This was definitely a nVidia hardware issue. (Score:3)
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Whoops! Scratch that. It loaded, but slowly.
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I searched for all court cases involving a company named Apple in King county, WA and I found one filed in small claims