Nokia Exec: Young People Fed Up With iPhone and Android 532
jfruhlinger writes "Nokia's Windows Phones haven't hit the U.S., but at least one company executive thinks they'll be a slam dunk, since young people have soured on the iPhone and find Android baffling. Of course, much of the Internet commentariat found his remarks even more baffling. Is he right, is he delusional, or is he just trying to build buzz for his company's products the best he can?"
State Of Mind (Score:5, Funny)
It's Nokia, so I'll take delusional for $2000, Alex.
Re:State Of Mind (Score:5, Insightful)
He's paid to be delusional. What's he supposed to say? "iPhone outsells every other phone by an order of magnitude and Android devices in general are rapidly cornering the lion's share of the market and now we've made this commitment to Windows Phone 7 that we can't just drop for a number of reasons" Yeah, I'm sure the shareholders will love that.
Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
He employs some great logic. Here is a direct quote:
"What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones. Everyone has the iPhone," he said.
If everyone wants something, then nobody could possibly want it... right?
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Funny)
"Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded." -Yogi Berra
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone has the iPhone," he said.
And perhaps they are looking for the next bright shiny, must have item. If everyone has one, it isn't as special anymore. Fads come and go.
Now whether or not the iphone IS a fad is another question I'll not try to answer. Personally, I've played with my wife's iphone and just can't see why people are so crazy about them. Overpriced and not very flexible IMHO. But maybe it's peer pressure. I've always been rather resistant to it, while my wife is at the other end of the spectrum.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
When I tried to flex my friend's Droid X it snapped in half too. :)
Seriously though, most users aren't looking for flexibility. I really don't want the option of being able to run Apache on my phone and being able to SSH into it so I could configure it right.
They're looking for practical applications of their devices and Apple's doing a damn good job of attracting application developers.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
You illuminate an interesting subtext:
I think the fact that you put "stability" at #1 means you've probably never owned an iPhone. I've had a 3GS since the week it came out and stability has never even crossed my mind: it just works. The only time I think about stability is when I'm playing Words with Friends and it crashes and vanishes.
Stability shouldn't even be an issue. No one bought Bakelite phone in the 1960's based on stability: it was correct by construction _already_. I think iPhone nailed that. Of course, I've never owned an Android (used 'em plenty and don't mind 'em one bit), but I would expect "stability" to never enter my conscious thought with Android phones either.
I just wish the bar was set higher so that absolutely no one would feel compelled to include "stability" on a list of important features.
It's like saying, "I'm shopping for a car, and my #1 important feature is that it doesn't spontaneously burst into flames." We shouldn't have to even think about that.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:4, Insightful)
If this is the way you think about your wife, and talk about her, you should probably consider what effect that behavior may be having on your relationship.
If someone does succumb easily to peer pressure, then that's a real issue that should be addressed. But buying an iPhone really doesn't qualify all on it's own, because it is actually a perfectly good phone, and iPhone users tend to make more of an effort to help their friends see all the good things an iPhone can do. I would know, I've encouraged many of my friends to buy them.
It looks to me like rather than actually trying to understand why people would want an iPhone, you are simply saying that since you don't want one, the only reason that anyone else could want one is that they are influenced by peer pressure, while you are not. And regardless of how you think you meant it, being susceptible to peer pressure is not a good thing, so you are basically saying that you are better than iPhone users because they give in to peer pressure and you don't.
Not only are you over-simplyfing, but you are making basically no effort to understand the alternative point of view. That's even more troubling, because the alternative point of view happens to belong to your wife.
Re: (Score:3)
I've never seen a stronger case for Nokia being a willing Microsoft crony than a Microsoft exec who leaves to Nokia, fosters a relationship with Nokia, and now trashtalks their competitors.
Does he really want Nokia to fail this badly?
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
He's right though. It's a wise point of insight. iPhone and Android are ripe for played-out cultural saturation, just like Facebook.
Maybe if Nokia doesn't drop the ball, they can parlay this natural social rhythm into success, unlike SOME people (I'm looking at YOU BlackBerry). ...hate to imagine any Microsoft involvement though. I wish they and their shitty Windows Phone would just die.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
iPhone and Android are ripe for played-out cultural saturation, just like Facebook.
If people are tired of smart phones, they're not going to suddenly rush to buy one that runs Windows.
Are you seriously suggesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Are you seriously suggesting... (Score:5, Funny)
Think of it like this: Android phones don't run Ubuntu.
Indeed. It's easy to tell the difference because only one of these platforms defaults to a dumbed-down smartphone GUI. And the other is sponsored by Google.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
He's right though. It's a wise point of insight. iPhone and Android are ripe for played-out cultural saturation, just like Facebook.
Maybe if Nokia doesn't drop the ball, they can parlay this natural social rhythm into success, unlike SOME people (I'm looking at YOU BlackBerry). ...hate to imagine any Microsoft involvement though. I wish they and their shitty Windows Phone would just die.
And this for me really highlights how Microsoft especially but also its partners have really dropped the ball. If you can't be the saturation player (Apple), and you can't directly challenge the saturation player (Google and its partners), then you have to offer a compelling niche product. That approach can succeed, especially for smaller companies for whom even a niche product produces meaningful revenue. But there are two big problems here: First, neither Nokia nor Microsoft is a small company; Nokia needs to be a major challenger for its business model to work, and Microsoft is investing a lot of money in mobile and needs more than just one or two partners with niche products to generate a return. Second, the Windows brand has plenty of value, but is a handicap to anyone trying this approach in developing a new niche product. Windows is hardly the brand people associate with innovative, hip new products or being off the beaten path; many if not most people interact with it every day and for them it is background noise, the default, the standard, something that is so bland and ordinary as not to even occasion comment. Is that really the brand that Nokia, or Microsoft for that matter, thinks will excite people who are tired of iOS or Android, or people looking for a less-common status symbol?
If Microsoft were smarter they would have recognised this and invested the time and energy into coming up with an alternative brand for their mobile products, perhaps leveraging the successful Xbox brand. But in a sense that would also have been an acknowledgement up front that their approach was unlikely to pay off big; a new brand might generate a niche following, but only the Windows brand is likely to be able to take on Apple and Google... most likely by eating RIM's lunch in the corporate space. In other words, either Microsoft has badly misjudged the cachet of Windows among ordinary individuals or its intent all along was to sell Windows Mobile into places where corporate IT makes the decisions rather than end users. That strategy looked decent a few years ago, but we have really seen a lot of changes recently in how employers handle supporting their employees' personal mobile devices. Recognising that it's cheaper to support their existing iOS and Android devices than to issue their own fleet of business-only devices, and that most people prefer to have at most only one phone and one tablet anyway, almost no one is still handing out a single device and refusing to support anything else. In the absence of products that are compelling on their own, RIM is finding that the decay of the corporate mobile device mandate is very bad for business. Microsoft, and therefore their partners as well, seem to be in the same spot.
It looks like the niche player, whatever it ends up being, will be built around WebOS. It has open source cachet, underdog cachet ("back from the dead"), and it's not a terrible technology. With two dominant players duking it out for the mass market and a potential family of niche alternatives brewing, where does this leave Microsoft? With a lacklustre brand, tiny market share, an apparently outdated strategy, and no compelling products on the market, it's hard to imagine Windows Mobile going anywhere. Too late to market to be where Android is today, and too stodgy a brand to be what Nokia wishes it were (not that a niche business is what Microsoft wants anyway), Windows Mobile looks like a dead end. If anyone knows the value of getting in early, it should be Microsoft; the entire company exists today solely because of its first mover advantage all those years ago. Nokia was happy to get a backer, but it appears to have picked the wrong one. They could be doomed as well.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
Nokia needs to be a major challenger for its business model to work, and Microsoft is investing a lot of money in mobile and needs more than just one or two partners with niche products to generate a return.
I think you've identified a very real reason why this whole partnership was a terrible idea: It requires one partner or the other (if not both) to get screwed. There is basically no chance of WP7 taking over the entire market. The best it can really hope for is to split the market three ways with Android and iOS, and even that seems extremely optimistic at this point. Windows Mobile, the discontinued product, is still outselling [reghardware.com] WP7, and those are the just-released latest numbers.
What is Nokia supposed to do with only a small part of a small percentage of the market? Even the entire volume of WP7 sales is probably not enough to sustain them. And Microsoft can't even let them have that, because they'll never get their market share off the floor with only one vendor who, by necessity, will itself have to continue selling and marketing non-WP7 in the interim.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Funny)
My mom has had sex. They sell Sex For Dummies [dummies.com] books. Those two criteria right there are reason enough to never have sex.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Funny)
My mom has had sex. They sell Sex For Dummies [dummies.com] books. Those two criteria right there are reason enough to never have sex.
Dude, that's a horrible mental image - it's bad enough knowing that *my* mom had sex, but your mom did too!? That's disgusting!
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they had sex with each other. Back when they were hot.
From my vantage point.... (Score:4, Funny)
From my vantage point they're probably still hot! :D
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm curious why you know that Sex For Dummies exists. I was not aware of this. I'm trying to picture the person who would walk up to a bookstore counter and pay for that. I'm picturing a mix between Stallman and Buscemi.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
It's been on display in many a bookstore, so anyone buying and reading a lot of books could easily have seen it for sale.
And the reason why people would by it is the same as why people buy the book "The mole who wanted to know who pooped on it's head", it's a fun book and you just might learn something.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:4, Funny)
To entertain small children?
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
What, because it works, is easy to use, and you can get documentation for it that an actual consumer can understand?
So any technology your mom can use is bad? I take it you have eschewed all forms of technology she can operate like TVs, plumbing, and toasters? Or is it just phones?
Oh, you can also get Linux for Dummies, Windows for Dummies, and a whole raft of things ... so if the presence of a Dummies book is your criteria, you should stop using anything listed here [dummies.com] ... they even have your beloved SQL [dummies.com].
Seriously man, I consider any technology my mother can operate to be fairly well implemented; because she's in her 70's and for her to decide she needed a GPS, laptop, scanner, digital camera, digital picture frame, a USB drive for backups, and a PVR ... well, that was quite a series of leaps for someone who isn't all that interested in that kind of stuff.
Why should technology be something that your mother couldn't possibly use?
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:4, Funny)
That seems like a redundant title for a book to have...
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Interesting)
There are people like that. Before the iPhone killed the iPod, people would buy Zunes just for the "its not popular" aspect.
Will it be enough market to keep WMP going? Probably not. However, WMP has one advantage -- Microsoft can easily have it the only phone that works with a new "secure" protocol of Activesync. If MS also licensed it to Apple, Android would be effectively locked out of the enterprise like it was back in the 1.5 and 1.6 days. This by itself would all but kill Android as a competing phone. Exchange support makes or breaks handsets. Even Apple came to Microsoft to get support in their devices.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think we dislike things directly because they're popular and we want to be hipsters. IMO it's probably more to do with our experience with Microsoft and Intel over the last couple of decades. We often will root for the underdog even when there isn't much of a difference to the end user simply because we don't want any one company getting too far ahead of the rest and crushing innovation.
Then you also have to consider that we simply are more aware of the alternatives in many situations and will choose the option that is best for us, which won't very often be the most popular choice. It's when geeks start acting like what's best for them is best for everyone when the problems start. Usually it takes the world a few years to be ready for what we are happy to use straight from the bleeding edge. Having said that, I think Android is a decent balance of customisability vs usability. You could probably say the same for the iPhone - as long as you jailbreak it first..
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a huge difference between just choosing something that may not be popular, and bitching about something simply because it is popular. A lot of the latter is what happens here on /.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Informative)
I don't bitch about Microsoft Windows because its popular (though it is), I bitch about it because it makes my days unending drudgery and pain.
I know you will probably think I am drinking the Slashdot cool-aid, but I assure you 90% of the frustration in my day is caused by something Microsoft did.
I also have Apple, Linux and Solaris machines and none of them give me the "WTF were they thinking?!" headaches that Windows does.
Re:Nobody does that because everyone does that (Score:5, Funny)
I've noticed this too. People parrot the same lines and maintain orthodoxy with a fairly uniform set of viewpoints. Frickin sheep.
Re:State Of Mind (Score:5, Informative)
I hate that BS apple propaganda. iPhone outsells every other SMARTPHONE HANDSET on the market. If you look at real data, like Total phones, far far far more dumb phones are sold. And the smartphone market? If you look at a more accurate number, like the number of phones with the iPhone OS or the Android OS on them, Android has double the market share of apple. Apple is able to say they sell the most phones because they only offer one... sure if you break up android sales by model, each one gets a much smaller share... but that's stupid.
Then Windows phones? hahahha... I dont think I've ever met someone with a windows phone.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you look at real data, like Total phones, far far far more dumb phones are sold.
That's interesting. Do you have links on this? I got the impression everyone except me spends their time fingering their fondleslabs these days. Also, your claim contradicts the data I can find, e.g. http://gizmodo.com/5817082/everbodys-getting-smartphones [gizmodo.com]
Re:State Of Mind (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
What's he supposed to say?
Equally
"Young people have soured on the iPhone, find Android baffling and will see anything tagged Windows as uncool and boring, so we see a huge opportunity for Symbian and MeeGo... Sorry... you say we signed a WHAT with Microsoft? Seriously? Aw shit!"
...would likely have been a career-limiting move.
Re:State Of Mind (Score:4, Informative)
iPhone outsells every other phone by an order of magnitude
I am no fan of Nokia's recent moves, but to claim that their phones don't sell is simply inaccurate. Nokia sold more 5230 phones in one year alone last year (2010) than Apple has sold iPhones in the whole five years from 2007-2011. Nokia has also produced the best selling phone for many of the years on record. List of best-selling mobile phones: [wikipedia.org]
Year Manufacturer Model Units sold
1990 NEC P3 15 million
1996 Motorola StarTAC 60 million
1998 Nokia 6120 15 million
1999 Nokia 3210 150 million
2000 Nokia 3310 126 million
2002 Nokia/Nokia/Nokia/Siemens 3510/6100/6610/A50 15 million
2003 Nokia 1100 250 million
2004 Nokia 2600/2610/2626/2630 135 million
2005 Nokia 1110 150 million
2006 Nokia 1600/1650/1661 130 million
2007 Nokia 1200 150 million
2008 Nokia 1680 Classic 35 million
2009 Apple iPhone 3GS 35 million
2010 Nokia 5230 150 Million
If the sales comparison is restricted to smartphones and recent year, then both Samsung Galaxy S and HTC Desire have large sales (30 million and 21 million respectively). Total iPhone sales in 2010 was 40 million, so neither HTC nor Samsung is being outsold by "an order of magnitude".
Re:State Of Mind (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:State Of Mind (Score:5, Interesting)
It would take some serious kool-aide to think that people were generally confused by any of iPhone, Android or Windows Phone 7, they are all easy to use. Each has it's pros and cons.
However, with the serious lack of good 3rd party apps, I suspect mostly due to MS figuratively castrating their developers with insane draconian file access and network access restrictions that prevent any direct cross-app communication on the phone, or network access via anything but http/https... You would have to have gone through a few kilos of LSD before ever thinking Windows Phone 7 could catch up to those two. Nice OS, but MS royally screwed the 3rd party developers over.
Re:State Of Mind (Score:4, Informative)
For the record, your info is (half a year) out of date. As of the Mango SDK release, WP7 now officially includes TCP and UDP sockets. Yes, it was idiotic of them to ship without those in the beginning, but they are available.
Unofficially, where I do most of my development, WP7 has a full WinSock stack, but you're not going to get those into the Marketplace. Apps using System.Net.Sockets will and have, though.
Re: (Score:3)
It's called denial (Score:5, Insightful)
the first of the five stages of grief. [wikipedia.org]
Survey says... (Score:5, Funny)
Some Creepy old guy walks up to a group of kids.
Creepy old guy looks at kid using his iPhone
Creepy old guy: Can you play xbox with your iPhone?
Kid with iPhone: No
Creepy old guy looks at kid using his Android.
Creepy old guy: Can you play xbox with your Android?
Kid with Android: I don't think so.
Headline: Young People soured on the iPhone and find the Android baffling.
Re: (Score:3)
He's been staring at the Metro interface too long
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I haven't had windows crash as much as either android phone I had crash (two Samsungs, can't remember the models off the top of my head - transform and intrepid I think), since the 90s. Both crashed once every 3-4 weeks on average. My current HTC windows phone has yet to crash on me, and I've had it for almost a year. Mind you, 3rd party app selection sucks, and unless MS fixes their API, no amount of popularity and customer demand will fix that.
If MS fixes their API issues, Windows Phone 7 could actually b
Obvious Troll is Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Obvious Troll is Obvious (Score:4)
Or maybe he just read an iPhone or Android story on Slashdot and believed all of the frothing lunatic haters.
And Another Thing ... (Score:5, Funny)
Right now, it is so confusing to the customer. Where is the softly assuring BEEEEEEP WAHUNG WAHUNG SCSSHHHHHHHHH white noise after connecting that lets you know that you are receiving 56k service?
Re: (Score:3)
Right now, it is so confusing to the customer. Where is the softly assuring BEEEEEEP WAHUNG WAHUNG SCSSHHHHHHHHH white noise after connecting that lets you know that you are receiving 56k service?
You just KNOW there's some hipster out there thinking "Hey! If I can find a away to recreate that, but faster, I'll be RICH!"
Re:And Another Thing ... (Score:5, Funny)
Register domain 56Kb.it.
Implement a basic URL-shortner/social-media-linking-crap mechanism.
When somebody clicks on a 56Kb.it shortened link, it redirects them to a fairly standard framed-web-proxy-page arrangement; but with an (HTML5, of course) audio widget that plays the dialup noise, and deliberate bandwidth throttling of the framed page to a bitrate chosen randomly from the historically plausible performance of a '56k' dialup line.
It's pointless, wasteful, adds an extra point of failure, and is really a pretty stupid gimmick. Should be all over the social networks within hours.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Gosh how I loved that SSCSSHHHHHHH when it eventually did connect. In my mind I can still hear those bits pouring down the telephone line into my computer. Some modems (might have been pre 56k days) even let you keep the modem speaker on constantly so you could listen to your data all day long. The sheer nerdy joy of it.
Out of touch (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember: (Score:3, Informative)
The plural of anecdote is data.
Now go ask a thousand other parents what their teenagers want and check back here after you do. I think you'll find iStuff to be consistently high up on the list.
BTW your "industry insider" is more commonly known as a shill. He is selling a product. He - of course - isn't going to say "well our product isn't as good as Apple". He is going to say something positive about his product and negative about the competition. That's his job.
Find a neutral third party with a
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The plural of anecdote is NOT data. Data implies a controlled set of information that can be plotted against a single (or at least a few known) variables. An anecdote has no control of its variance, which makes it impossible to compare to other randomly collected anecdotes.
Hee hee ya they sure are.... (Score:3)
Re:Hee hee ya they sure are.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Many of them have sold off the shares. Nokias shares are down ... alot.
It was the board that decided to select an alliance with Microsoft.
Re: (Score:3)
The only thing that has kept me hanging on to a small set of shares is the idea that Microsoft is simply going to buy Nokia soon.
Not sure what he's thinking... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think I've ever met someone who wasn't a hacker/tweaker sort who didn't like their iPhones. Regardless of your beliefs about their business practices, Walled Garden, etc, by and large the iPhone works and works well. I'm not sure exactly who he talked to about being fed up.
I've also not met a lot of people unhappy with their Android phones, though they may not be using them to their full customization potential.
I'm not young, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
...I've soured on the Android (performance and privacy issues) and the iPhone looks expensive (based on the iPhone tax it looks like service providers charge). But, I also had about 2 years of development experience on the inferior Windows Mobile platform when Microsoft pissed on the developer base, then shoved us out the door.
I'd say he's right there's room for another competitor, but his ain't it.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:I'm not young, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Privacy is an issue for you with Android devices so your first idea is to turn to an Apple product?
This is were a young person would post a picture of Jackie Chan looking utterly baffled.
You seem to have either a short or selective memory. Prior to the iPhone, the standard practice for cell phones were for handset makers to make phones for carriers with their carrier branding on the case and carrier specific apps permanently installed on the phone. The iPhone was sold to "consumers" and treated like a consumer device rather than something created specifically for a carrier.
Apple has put into place restrictions to protect the privacy of users from third party apps from collecting personal information without concept.
If you are referring to the "log" file that was in the backup file, that did not contain any personal information in it. Location information was stored "ON THE PHONE" to speed up location services acting as a "CACHE".
All carriers are capable of tracking you through their backhaul infrastructure without any help from Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
@ Prior to the iPhone, the standard practice for cell phones were for handset makers to make phones for carriers with their carrier branding on the case and carrier specific apps permanently installed on the phone. @
You forgot to add "in the USA". You could get unlocked, unbranded phones in Europe before iphone and sure you can get it after.
On Android you know which app has which permissions, but you don't with iOS.
Having this piece of news in mind, talk about Apple's "protect the privacy" is very ironic:
ht [guardian.co.uk]
Re: (Score:3)
My phone cost about a day's pay more than yours and let's me work from anywhere I want, so I can take off on what would be a normal workday and be outside instead of in a windowless office in the third basement.
And by the way, kids consider constant connection to Facebook "a real life."
Re:I'm not young, but... (Score:4, Informative)
I'm still trying to figure out why I supposedly need to be connected to Facebook 24 hours a day. Constant mobile internet connections were cool... in 1990. Today they're a sign of a lack of real life.
Really? I can sit in a meeting at work (or anywhere, for that matter, even without wifi) and use my phone to open a Windows remote desktop connection (or SSH session) to the server and actually write code on the server right through my phone. People are amazed when they give me a bug report at the beginning of a meeting which is fixed by the end. No laptop required, my laptop stays on my desk now.
You may only use the internet to connect to Facebook, but there are other people who get real work done even using their phones.
I can also check Slashdot on the shitter, so I've got that going for me. Which is nice.
Kids want to differentiate themselves... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you (Score:5, Funny)
want your kid to be beaten up by the school bully, then give him a nokia windows mobile 7 phone.
As a certified "young person"... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:As a certified "young person"... (Score:4, Funny)
They would have complained but they couldn't figure out how to post using their droid ;-)
Re:As a certified "young person"... (Score:4, Funny)
They did try - they sent you a text message, but it went to the wrong person.
Imma go with "delusional" (Score:5, Insightful)
They tend to see the iPhone as a bit more "stuffy", but that distinction may have more to do with company policies regarding who gets what, than with any actual differences between the devices themselves. But "Baffling"? C'mon, you just slide through the screens to the one you want, and tap when you get there.
Now, if you want to ask if the business world will get all hot over a device they can lock down via domain policies - I'd at least give that one a 50/50 (with the "not" 50% swearing like a sailor at the horror of having any mobile device trusted on their domain). But the actual users? Yeah, I'll have to go with the Nokia execs as "delusional" on this one.
WP7 sales suck everywhere. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not like Nokia phones are going to be any different from other vendors' WP7 phones, despite the privileged position Nokia has. Their real chance to be different was with the N9, and by all accounts the phone is a success in the markets it was launched in. People love it -- if they can get it. Carrier subsidizing is the only "feature" that is missing. But good news Newegg now carries it! [newegg.com] ($630) so no dealing with shady importers.
I hate my Android, but I'll likely go back to iPhone, unless I swing the N9 for xmas. Yeah, I'm not even a year into the Atrix and I'm looking to spend another $630 because Android is crap. I prefer a "walled garden" to an open field of shit. I'm only waiting to see how the iPhone 5 changes things.
Re:WP7 sales suck everywhere. (Score:4, Funny)
"I'm only waiting to see how the iPhone 5 changes things."
Then you don't have to worry, I am sure it will change everything.
I agree! (Score:5, Funny)
I showed my Android phone to my 2 year old and within minutes she was fed up. To her, all those icons and such were baffling. But then I showed her a windows 7 phone and she ate it up! It spent far more time in her mouth than any other phone in the house!
Re:I agree! (Score:5, Funny)
Well said.
His post was clearly serious.
Obviously, he needed your guidance
Once again, thank you.
Sincerely,
Herbert.
Exacty wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know why older people have this misconception that young people are more iconoclastic than older ones. Just because the Young do not have the same icons as the old I guess. Teens and young adults are gregarious and sensitive to peer pressure to an extreme, more than more mature people.
If Nokia counts on many Young having it as an argument against the iPhone, I wish them good luck. They could try "your moms and dads have them too", but since moms and dads still mostly have Nokias, at least in Europe, that doesn't sound too smart either.
Sounds like clutching at straws to me.
Fed up with the lawsuits, not the phones. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Fed up with the lawsuits, not the phones. (Score:5, Insightful)
And that does effect me personally.
Re: (Score:3)
1) price.
2) product delays
3) advancement is delayed
4) courts are tied up for stupid bickering
5) industrial waste as delayed devices don't end up sold
6) stupid lawyers pocketing cash that should go toward new fabs
same old crap (Score:3)
seriously, was he around nokia stuff _last_ decade?
puffing up the music portfolio. well, that's something they've been trying for almost a decade.
and some other stuff as well.
“We would prefer a wireless transfer than a docking station," said Munksgaard. "A docking station has limitations because the phone has to be in a certain place. We are extremely pleased with the experience you get with the device in connection with Nokia gear. We don’t have a docking station at this point, however we are confident that as the Windows Phone ecosystem grows, third party docking station makers will support us.”
well fuck nokia, pc suite on 3650 allowed me to install packages wirelessly from the pc, installation options and all. then you started taking things away one by one.
read my typing: wp8 will have a task history/switch view just like android, symbian and ios. because otherwise it's going to continue sucking more than series40.
I think Nokia missed the boat (Score:5, Insightful)
What's really missing the marketplace is a Linux console phone. All this graphics nonsense is just slowing people down. And what could be better than the feeling of compiling a kernel in your pocket?
Re:I think Nokia missed the boat (Score:4, Insightful)
And all android phones have a linux console, just in case you would want to compile a kernel.
Re:I think Nokia missed the boat (Score:5, Interesting)
My N9 arrived from Switzerland and I think it is just freaking beautiful, and Microsoft really did a number on Nokia to muzzle this thing. Like:
The main website for the N9 is http://swipe.nokia.com/ [nokia.com] Okay, so you're saying 'swipe, yeah I've heard of that. so what?' Man, if only Microsoft wasn't paying Nokia so hard to put a muzzle on it. Check out the videos at the bottom of that page, particularly the 2nd thumbnail'd from the left, at the very bottom. Dig on the one-handed swipe GUI. So now maybe you're thinking, 'well okay, if the one-handed GUI carries over through out the rest of the OS maybe...'
Okay, to do that, you have to wait for the Over the Air update (or use another way) to install the PR1.1, i.e. the first service pack for the OS since the phone was released. Then 'swipe' is fully installed, and you can also access control-keys, up/down arrows, etc. And it is freaking awesome! And being a linux guy of course I installed the devel extras which gets me the busybox terminal, and oh man what a gorgeous phone/client.
Today I was playing with the calendar and daily alarms; gorgeous! The included browser is fast and I'm a web-dev and really appreciate the perspective it brings to understanding modern mobile html5/touch browsers (that pops-up .flv videos in the media player but now .swf files).
I am certain Microsoft paid Nokia to *bury* the one-handed swipe GUI so deep as to obfuscate it completely. But I also think the Good Work of the Nokia linux team refuses to be buried so. At any rate, I give the N9 the coolest, most-positive thumbs-up review. And it does linux. (Oh, and who needs a million apps if I can bash script & ssh all over the place?)
Re:I think Nokia missed the boat (Score:4, Informative)
To better clarify my earlier post, and what I mean about having to add the swipe keyboard yourself (thanks Microsoft!) check out this blog post: http://everythingn9.com/advanced-keyboard-functions-nokia-n9 [everythingn9.com]. Having done so, this OS really can be used one-handed if so desired, with minimal strain if any (once practiced).
If only the kids were paying attention to these developments.
Snorting fumes in the fab (Score:4, Funny)
I think this guy's be hanging out in a wafer fab snorting fumes.
Even *I* bought an iPhone... (Score:5, Interesting)
And I liked my Palm Pilot so much, I bought a Treo. However, the Treo was a terrible phone, I had to spend extra and buy it on eBay because the 680 wasn't supported by t-Mobile and for years I lived with it. Then, finally I started phone shopping.
A friend lent me his Nokia 900 and I found it to be un-useable. It interpreted *everything* as me wanting to use the device, including putting it back into a belt-holster... So it would start playing videos in my pocket, and when I wanted to really use it to make a phone call, the battery was dead.
I didn't like the iPhone's on-screen keyboard, but, when the iPhone4 came out, it finally supported a bluetooth keyboard. So, I bought the iPhone & keyboard. When I'm away from the keyboard, I've learned to live with the onscreen keyboard.
For the last year and 2 months now, it's been OK. I haven't wanted to run my phone over with my car, something I've wanted to do to both the Treo and the Nokia. Sure, it doesn't do everything, but, I have to admit it's better than what I was getting previously. The keyboard has made taking notes and writing emails very easy, making the phone a 60% desktop replacement.
It's a fairly good PDA, and even with AT&T service, it's been a use-able phone. All it has to do is not suck entirely, which tends to be what the other products do.
Considered that kids want what the other kids have, my guess is that this quote from Nokia that kids want a Windows Phone is rubbish. Kids want an iPhone. Apple is already on track to be the biggest phone-maker in the world.
Nokia, RIM, Samsung, and Sony do not have a chance unless they undertake some serious R&D and make something equally revolutionary. And somehow "revolutionary" isn't a word *anyone* associates with Microsoft. Windows phone ain't it, any more than GEOS phone. WebOS could have been it, but Palm and the HP both screwed that pooch.
The carriers. (Score:5, Insightful)
They are fed up with the carriers, not the phones.
Look at the Guy's Title (Score:4, Insightful)
By "Exec" in the title the actual position of the speaker is in fact "director of Portfolio, Product Marketing & Sales at Nokia Entertainment Global", which equates to something like "manufacturer of consent via media manipulation, innuendo, and implication". No hard science or technology in that guy's department.
Wait for windows phone in 2013... (Score:4, Interesting)
Just imagine: in 2013 having a windows phone that:
a) Can be used as a phone (of course!)
b) Can be used as a tablet (windows 8 with the Metro UI)
c) Can be used as a computer (windows 8 with the Classic UI)
d) Can be used as a game console (it is rumored that the next xbox could run in ARM processors a variant of the windows 8 kernel).
Microsoft is known for improving its products version after version... Everyone thinks that Windows Phone 7.5 is a very goog start: just read the reviews:
- Engadget ( http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-review/ [engadget.com] )
"While Windows Phone still needs a glass of water to get rid of a few hiccups -- and let's face it, every mobile OS has plenty of their own -- it ironed out a lot of the wrinkles from earlier versions and made it a much more feature-laden, user-friendly experience. With Mango, WP7 has caught up with Android and iOS in nearly every way, and in some areas it's even surpassed the other two in functionality. Despite a grim first year, the bright future of Windows Phone is forcing Ballmer to wear shades."
- The Verge ( http://www.theverge.com/2011/10/24/2509332/windows-phone-75-mango-review [theverge.com] )
"Put simply, regardless of your preconceptions, Windows Phone finally deserves an honest look the next time you’re ready to buy a phone — particularly as we start to see new devices come to market over the next few weeks."
- gsmarena ( http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phone_7_5-review-655.php [gsmarena.com] )
"WP7 lacked key functionality, which deterred potential consumers. Version 7.5 however brings things that will appeal to businesspeople, social networking buffs and people who like a novel software experience. If you're using Microsoft software (chances are you're using at least Office at work), WP7.5 offers the smoothest, most well-rounded experience. The rich bundle of several social networks and IM clients and emails and texts is beautifully organized too. And let's face it, the Windows Phone interface is the only UI around that's truly different - iOS, Android, even Symbian are becoming harder and harder to tell apart. The only thing that held it back was the lack of multitasking and now that's been sorted out."
Re: (Score:3)
Great, so in 2013, Windows Phones will be able to do what other phones already can today. And of course, the competition will be standing still in the meantime. But Windows Phone will be worth the wait, we promise!
As for Windows Phone 7.5 being "a very good start," it's not a "start." Microsoft has been trying for years to be relevant in the mobile space. So they finally got some of it right on the seven-and-a halfth try? Good for them. (OK, I know that Windows Phone releases haven't been consecutively numb
Re: (Score:3)
yes wp 7.5 is very goog.
that is, it's shit.
honestly, I'd rather have series 60 5th edition than that pile of crap. c7 over any of the wp phones any day.
beautifully organized? are you literally smoking crack? wp7 is different for diferences sake - and because whipping up a fucking menu and billing it up as an operating system is the oldest trick in the book. there's a reason why it's moving away from that release per release, by wp 8.5 frizzleberry it'll have a sliding notification box with a task switcher(h
Nokia can't even give away their product. (Score:4, Interesting)
Om Malik commenting on the state of Nokia in Finland. [gigaom.com]
I co-incidentally happen to be in Helsinki, a few miles away from Nokiaâ(TM)s global headquarters in Espoo, Finland. Walking around the downtown (where I am staying), I have seen many more iPhones than Nokia phones. And most of the startup people I met have some variation of the iPhone. One of them who is still in college told me that Nokia gave him one of their new phones, and he decided to use it as a way to support his nationâ(TM)s largest employer. A month later, he switched back to the iPhone. Ouch! When you canâ(TM)t give away your phones to your own âoeyouth,â it is time to stop hating on other platforms and look for ways to get people to use your product.
Nokia can't even give away their phones!
Making a mistake (Score:4, Insightful)
Sell it as an Enterprise phone. Replacement for the blackberry.
My Daughter (Score:3)
From a sign in a cubicle at Nokia (Score:3)
"You don't have to be delusional to work here, but it helps!"
So far I've been impressed with WP7 (Score:4, Informative)
My wife now has a WP7 phone (HTC Arrive) and loves it. The OS seems well put together and while it doesn't seem to be a power user phone it does many of the functions better of being a phone, text platform, and media consumption device much more smoothly than either iOS or Android. I use both an Android (Galaxy SII currently) and an iPhone 4 on a daily basis, my preference is heavily on the Android side for many usability and functionality reasons. I also run custom ROMs on my android vs. stock on the iPhone which may have much to do with my experience.
That said the WP7 has been impressive enough that it may just be my next phone.
Re: (Score:3)
what are these things you call (Score:3)
Re:Nokia's Windows Phones (Score:5, Insightful)
- Living with a 20-year old in the basement.
Re: (Score:3)
at this point, it's Android and iPhone fanboys versus stupid Nokia exec.
I think that trying to find a consensus amongst youth is stupid and foolish. Just because a group of youth take to something doesn't mean that this is what the young do or are into.
Re:Android IS crap (Score:4, Interesting)
Your complaint about Android's keyboard is one of its best features. Sure, the stock Android keyboard is just mediocre. It works fine for most people, but for those who want something better, you can easily replace it. I found one that I like, that works really well for me (SwiftKey), so I was able to very easily replace the stock keyboard app with that one. My wife didn't care for the stock keyboard or SwiftKey, so she easily replaced hers with another (Swype, I think?). I can't stand her keyboard, but she loves it. We both can easily type using our onscreen keyboards, and we both routinely use the onscreen keyboard instead of the built in hardware keyboard.
My son has an iPhone, after using SwiftKey, I think his keyboard is horrible. As far as I know he's stuck with it though, there's no way to change the stock keyboard on it. It may be a little better than the stock Android keyboard, but it absolutely blows compared to some of the aftermarket Android ones.
You also made a comment about Samsung just using the free software that's available instead of developing their own. Do you remember just a few years ago, when each phone had its own OS? Those were absolutely horrible. I wouldn't even consider a phone not running Android or iOS any more. I don't think many other people would either.