iPhone Auto-Combusts On Australian Airplane 277
First time accepted submitter thegreymonkey writes "Last Friday, an iPhone caught fire on flight ZL319 operating from Lismore to Sydney. This incident is under investigation from Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). This accident might be related to the iPhone battery again." Whether it "caught fire" may be a matter of semantics; as reported in the above linked story and by Network World (hat tip to reader alphadogg), though, the iPhone "started glowing red and emitting dense smoke."
Glowing red and emitting smoke? (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds more like a job for an exorcist. I banish thee, Steve!
Re:Glowing red and emitting smoke? (Score:5, Funny)
The power of Woz compels you!
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Please forgive my ignorance, but I was curious about this: Would a battery problem like that really cause something to glow red? I mean, by the time it reaches glowing red, isn't it already at a point where it can ignite anything touching it?
I'm just curious if this is an obvious embellishment of the story.
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Nah, it's very easy to get individual electronic components to glow red hot due to excessive electrical current.
The actual chunk of silicon inside an IC is tiny, so if it shorts out you have a lot of energy in a small space = high temperature. The outgassing explodes the heat resistant plastic/resin encapsulation, and the silicon sits there glowing red hot.
In this case, it's not the whole phone that would be glowing red hot, just some of the exposed internals.
From XKCD to life?? (Score:3, Funny)
http://xkcd.com/651/ [xkcd.com]
Seems like Randall has predicted the future again!
I don't want to start a "TSA is a bunch of idiots" thread but I'm honestly surprised that this hasn't happened more often.
Re:From XKCD to life?? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't want to start a "TSA is a bunch of idiots" thread but I'm honestly surprised that this hasn't happened more often.
I somehow doubt the TSA was involved in any way, shape, or form for a domestic Australian flight. At all... call it a hunch.
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What I meant to say is that despite all of the headaches with airport security (no matter where you are), the biggest risks are the ones that no one expects.
I'm surprised no one has done this intentionally yet.
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I'd recommend putting out the fire with one of the extinguishers in the clearly marked overhead lockers before pumping out pure oxygen into the cabin, though. Drench that sucker. Bonus points if, in your zealous efforts to put out the fire, you accidentally fi
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"A phone / laptop battery catching fire is not a significant risk to the plane"
My 10 hours solo flight time remaining 'till private pilot's license issuing says you're dead wrong.
That's one of the pre-flight check items - flammable objects.
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For example, if your iPhone you've stored in your flight bag in the back seat spontaneously combusts while you are flying solo:
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The O2 masks last barely long enough for the pilot to descent to below 8000 feet in event of depressurization.
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A phone / laptop battery catching fire is not a significant risk to the plane. The cabin might fill with noxious smoke, but then again there's those handy masks in the overhead panels which pump out nice, clean oxygen in the event of depressurisation.
Yes, because in the event of a fire, additional oxygen always helps.... Any time you in a ship, be it on the water, in the air, or in space, the greatest fear is fire because you can't escape the confines of the environment. And during fires, more people die
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A phone / laptop battery catching fire is not a significant risk to the plane.
Neither is exploding underwear.
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Bingo. And -1 redundant to every other comment in this thread that doesn't mention the smoking elephant in the airplane toilet.
A hand grenade has about 690,000 Joules of chemical energy (~150g of TNT at 4.6 MJ per kg). A high capacity external battery pack (a reasonable carry-on, right?) packs around 550,800 Joules (I can find 153 Watt-hours packs). That's in the same ballpark. Extracting it is left as a (thought) exercise for the reader.
Thought Experiment? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:From XKCD to life?? (Score:5, Insightful)
One hand gernade is less than a 20oz soda, high explosives aren't calorically dense, they are good at release.
You may as well say a gram of anything has huge amounts of energy (E=mc^2), extracting it is left as a thought excersize.
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You may as well say a gram of anything has huge amounts of energy
No not really, and the GP is correct. Explosives generally aren't particularly energy dense. The reason is that unlike fuels, they have to contain their own oxygen supply, which limits the energy density.
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there certainly needs to be the means to extinguish an electrical fire.
Might I humbly suggest each passenger be issued standard a bottle of water?
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there certainly needs to be the means to extinguish an electrical fire.
Might I humbly suggest each passenger be issued standard a bottle of water?
If you are smart enough to throw water on an electrical fire, might I suggest you do the gene pool a favor and lick the fire?
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Actually, the standard "Do not use water with electrical fires" is based on the danger of electrocution.
'Throwing' water on something would work fine as there is no stream connecting you to the electrified component.
In battery-powered systems this is usually not a concern and water is a fine medium to put it out with ;)
Hell, in any modern house the GFCI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device) should trip long before you're in any danger of serious damage. More likely than not the power has al
Re:From XKCD to life?? (Score:5, Insightful)
"In battery-powered systems this is usually not a concern and water is a fine medium to put it out with ;)"
Not by any means are you correct. Battery fires are classified as metal fires, and require a class-d extinguisher.
You try putting out a lithium fire by throwing water on it - I dare you.
Li + H20 = LiOH + H (Score:4, Funny)
You try putting out a lithium fire by throwing water on it - I dare you.
Your fire will be extinguished by the hydrogen + air explosion. Even if it doesn't, the original fire will be the least of your concerns.
Re:From XKCD to life?? (Score:5, Informative)
Water is the correct response to a lithium ion powered consumer device fire, as shown in this FAA-video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS6KA_Si-m8
The purpose of the water is to cool down the batteries to prevent thermal run-away.
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actually, I worked at a battery company for a while. Yes, at first, the water reacts with the anode, and will cause more heat and reactions to happen. However, they found that a sufficient quantity of water (if you have a way to direct a large amount of water at it, don't just toss a single bucket at it) is actually a good way to put out a battery fire, the water does suck the heat out from it, and eventually you've reacted away all the stuff in the battery.
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"Not by any means are you correct."
You sir are incorrect, if it is the electronics burning, and not the battery, he is 100% correct in hist statement. If the fire is a result of the battery overloading then it is an chemical/metal fire. In which case water is a bad idea; chemical splash/just wont work on metal.
You're missing the point entirely.
The iphone 4 uses a "Built-in rechargeable lithium-ion battery. (http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html)
Putting water with Lithium is bad. (http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/lithium/lithium-and-water.htm)
Since the battery is damn near on fire, it's probably not wise to assume it remains intact and is not, in fact, leaking. Because if you're wrong, you get a pretty interesting reaction. Try YouTube if you'd like some examples, I trust you can locate the 'search' bar.
Re:From XKCD to life?? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the standard "Do not use water with electrical fires" is based on the danger of electrocution. 'Throwing' water on something would work fine as there is no stream connecting you to the electrified component.
Absolutely amazing this statement has been modded insightful. Apparently mods have no further understanding of electrical fires than the poster.
Not putting water on an electrical fire has little to do with electrocution, although that is a valid concern for the responders dealing with the situation. Water is fine to put out the subsequent fire - say if the circuit board, plastic housing, or something else is on fire. However, if the electrical components that created the fire are still energized, dumping a conductive liquid on it is a stupid act. You will have a much larger problem before you have dumped enough water to create a viable electrocution hazard.
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Tastes like burning!
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Try throwing water on an exposed lithium battery and see how well that works out.
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Try throwing water on an exposed lithium battery and see how well that works out.
like this? [youtube.com] Thanks for the tip... better issue every passenger some pliers, gloves and a bucket of water.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pizFsY0yjss [youtube.com]
Yes, watch it through, there are dramatic jets of flame and explosions.
The flame jets seem to have quite a bit of heat.
And of course, you can carry multiple laptop batteries. 1 per laptop + 1 spare. I've routinely carried two portables in the past, so that would presumably have entitled me to 4 of these.
But of course they still want to confiscate my smaller shampoo or lotion.
Not to mention the fact that if they are letting these through, presumably they could be p
Wait till the TSA hears about this (Score:4, Interesting)
Mobile phones will be prohibited on flights.
(But there are drawbacks as well; think laptops with lithium-ion batteries.)
Re:Wait till the TSA hears about this (Score:5, Funny)
Then we will just have to wait for one of those mysterious self-combustions on the plane. Then people will be prohibited by TSA on planes as well.
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Mobile phones would be far worse to ban from flights in my mind. Navigating a strange city without the ability to make a call at any given time (plus gps, etc) would be a pain. Or rather, it was... especially having to pick preordained meeting points and wait at meeting locations to gather back together. Mobile phones make trips much, much easier than they used to be. Of course, the sale of disposable phones just outside the airport would boom.
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A feature? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A feature? (Score:5, Funny)
Samsung are apparently hosing down crates of Galaxy II S 's with gasoline trying to copy the feature as we speak.
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Oh relax, cupcake it's a JOKE.
Jesus. No one has a sense of humour anymore.
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He was holding it wrong.
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If the passengers were wearing their Apple compliant turtlenecks, they could have easily filtered out the smoke.
relax... (Score:2)
The guy was just running the iHotplate app to warm up his coffee.
Nothing here to see, move along.
Amazing! (Score:4, Interesting)
Energetic chemistry is energetic.
Go find some RC enthusiasts and ask them if they've seen LiPos burn. There's a good chance they have.
That's why we charge our batteries in a lipo bag [youtube.com] or other fireproof container.
Of course, RC batteries are abused much more than those in phones, but it's highly non-surprising that occasionally one lights on fire.
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I just posted above about the volatile nature of lithium polymer batteries, a poor choice for consumer electronics.
Perhaps that's why the iPhone battery is Lithium Ion [ifixit.com]
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Specifically, they use a lithium-ion polymer battery, also called LiPo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Model_comparison [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery [wikipedia.org]
And liquids are still banned (Score:2)
So they go through all the trouble of banning liquids on flights, and other security theater, while allowing provably dangerous electronics onto the planes without any question. What happens when some terrorist is able to reprogram a phone or computer to overheat on command? Perhaps they could even "forget" the phone on a plane, and arrange for it to cause some mischief after the bad guy deplanes.
I would love to see them ban computers and cellphones because that would effect frequent business travelers,
Re:And liquids are still banned (Score:4, Funny)
I would love to see them ban computers and cellphones because that would effect frequent business travelers, and perhaps cause some pushback against the insanity of airline security.
Modern government could be summarised with the tagline: "The infrastructure exists for the corporation."
So that won't happen.
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You would probably see a little smoke, possibly get a pop with some plastic shrapnel that travels 6-10 inches from the device, and a rather embarrassed terrorist who has no clue that a phone battery isn't any danger to a plane.
Seriously...wtf?
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*sigh* Wrong.
There's a reason why flammable objects are part of a pre-flight checklist.
That includes power storage.
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Flammable objects are not part of a pre-flight checklist. If that were the case, you wouldn't be allowed to carry on your hair, your clothes, your luggage, or any other non-metal items. Even ammunition is allowed for checked baggage on some flights.
Explosives are not allowed for obvious reasons, but a batteries energy potential isn't that great, and is easily put out.
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Is the checklist on paper? Good thing that paper doesn't burn. Has anyone told Ray Bradbury?
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No, the strategy would be this:
1) Bring permitted iPhone through checkpoint.
2) Before deplaning, slip it behind the magazines in the pouch behind one of the seats, so it doesn't get noticed when they sweep the plane between flights.
3) Have the phone set on airplane mode and programmed to overload the battery in ~3 hours.
4) Assuming someone hasn't found the phone on the next flight, it catches on fire and spreads to the stack of magazines.
5) Cabin fire.
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What happens when some terrorist is able to reprogram a phone or computer to overheat on command?
How about if they just load laptop batteries with firmware to do the same. No computer needed. (Remember this story about battery firmware? [slashdot.org]). Sell them on eBay for cheap.
Suicide (Score:4, Funny)
Bad purchase (Score:2)
For one battery that goes, billions are just fine (Score:5, Interesting)
Between this, the Volt battery going up in flames and on a smaller scale the Belgian Post e-bikes catching fire, I am very worried about the fast deployment of Li-ion batteries in many fields.
I am a researcher in Li-ion batteries, and I know how dangerous those little buggers can be, but also how many efforts are done to make them safer. However, you can't take bad manufacturing out of the equation, and you should always ask yourself why a no-name chinese battery costs 1/3 of the original battery.
It would be nice to know if the phone was ever dropped, or its battery replaced at any point, or if a non-standard charger was used.
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you should always ask yourself why a no-name chinese battery costs 1/3 of the original battery.
I think we're safe there, I hear that the Apple-branded replacement batteries from the Chinese no-name manufacturers cost as much as the new iPhones themselves.
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I am a researcher in Li-ion batteries
A question for you: Does atmospheric pressure (especially the reduced pressure in aircraft) have any impact on Li battery chemistry?
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Also, afaik, Li-Ion batteries are completely sealed, so I don't see how changes in atmospheric pressure could have much effect.
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It would be nice to know if the phone was ever dropped, or its battery replaced at any point, or if a non-standard charger was used.
In this case, the backplate of the iphone had been replaced (you can tell from the apple logo in the picture). Obviously I don't know if this was the cause though, but perhaps the backplate was replaced because the original broke during a fall which may have jolted some internal circuitry close to the battery causing a local hotspot near the battery and then thermal runaway. Somehow I doubt that the battery would have been punctured just by dropping/replacing the backplate though.
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Re:For one battery that goes, billions are just fi (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly what is the difference between a no-name Chinese battery, and a named Chinese battery, besides cost?
The name, obviously.
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Exactly what is the difference between a no-name Chinese battery, and a named Chinese battery, besides cost?
I'd guess it would be brand recognition and QC/QA. BAK puts out decent cells.
ouchie (Score:3)
...glowing and smoking=combustion (not necessarily fire), but yeah. I've had a few such devices (one phone, two mp3 players, one bluetooth headset) crack off while plugged in to a third party charger (they were all chargeable through USB but all I had available at the time was an unregulated 6V adapter and a 4-port USB brick). Lesson learned; use manufacturer-approved chargers with Li-Ion! The battery technology uses pulse modulated charging current; DC (via a Powermonkey or suchlike) or unregulated DC (cheap adapter where the output voltage can vary wildly) can cause serious damage to the battery. I also read somewhere (it might have been on an iPhone 3G battery) that deforming the battery in any way (like, sitting on the phone?) might cause a short.
Obviously... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course (Score:3)
It's probably a battery manufactured by Sony which isn't designed to be used upside-down.
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That's what you get (Score:5, Funny)
the iPhone "started glowing red and emitting dense smoke.
That's what you get for installing the antichrist app. Idiot.
not funny (Score:2)
who wrote the "drummer from spinal tap app" ?
How hot... (Score:2)
The airlines were right... (Score:3)
You all mocked the airlines- but turns out they were right.
Using electronic devices on planes IS dangerous.
On a more serious note- wonder if any airlines will take this too far and completely ban cell-phones/smart phones etc from being carried on to the plane.
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Yes, let's put them all in luggage in the back of the plane where if one catches fire it will probably set most of the cargo on fire and take down the plane. If it starts to go up in someone's pocket they'll notice it a hell of a lot faster and it can be isolated and dealt with in a safe and timely manner.
New Website (Score:4, Funny)
Quick, somebody register "damnyouautocombust.com"!
Ban phones with nonremovable batteries (Score:2)
A ban on phones with non-removable batteries may be necessary. You can carry the phone on board, but the battery has to go in a plastic bag in luggage.
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A ban on phones with non-removable batteries may be necessary. You can carry the phone on board, but the battery has to go in a plastic bag in luggage.
Obvious troll is obvious. This was one incident and we do not know what the circumstances were. It is possible that the passenger had sat on the phone by having it in their back pocket and then battery could have ignited after the glass punctured the battery and sweat reacted with the lithium.
I'd rather have twice (or more) the battery life per charge than a removable battery which is one reason I have an iPhone 4S instead of an android handset.
Where are you going to keep those extra batteries that you have
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This was one incident and we do not know what the circumstances were.
Lets be honest though, that's all the assholes down at TSA need.
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It is possible that the passenger had sat on the phone by having it in their back pocket and then battery could have ignited after the glass punctured the battery and sweat reacted with the lithium.
Please don't tell the terrorists how to turn them into an iBomb.
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A ban on phones with non-removable batteries may be necessary. You can carry the phone on board, but the battery has to go in a plastic bag in luggage.
....but then passengers will start spontaneously combusting because they can't call people up to say "I've just landed" the millisecond the seatbelt sign goes off. When you tried to pick up your luggage you wouldn't be able to get near the carousel because of a crowd of numpties rummaging in their suitcases to find batteries and then standing around making calls (with the total disconnection from the surrounding environment that entails).
Let me guess... (Score:2)
wow (Score:2)
It smokes and it glows red? And here I thought Apple products couldn't get any cooler!
Re:wow (Score:4, Informative)
Well the problem was exactly that they couldn't get it any cooler. They tried to blow on it and turn it off, but it was still red-hot.
Mission:Impossible (Score:2)
Am I the only one this reminded of the self-destructing media devices in Mission:Impossible?
Ob South Park Reference (Score:2)
It is highly likely that the spontaneous combustion of that iPhone is due to the phone holding in a fart, causing a build up of methane which then ignited.
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Yes, my sister got hers a couple of days ago. They are getting round to it, it's just taking time. This is in the UK, fwiw.
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Got the box in three days, sent the old beastie back.
I wonder what they'll think about the install of Rockbox on it...
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I received the box in ( I think ) two days. I sent it in the same day. Since then:
Step 1 Request - November 15, 2011: Product received
Step 2 Service - November 16, 2011: Issue identified
Step 3 Return - November 16, 2011: Product replacement pending
sigh...
Car DVD PLayer (Score:5, Interesting)
Coincidentally yesterday I was driving while the kids watched movies on DVD players. Then Bang a huge explosions and plastic and metal go flying. The cigarette lighter power adapters conditioning electronics had exploded. I didn't drive off the road but could have. It looks like the culprit was a kink in the cord, perhaps from getting caught in a door at some point, causing a short. The violence of the explosion was surprising both literally and figuratively. You just don't realize how explosive your consumer electronics can be when they go bad.
Re:Car DVD PLayer (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like hardware with inadequate fusing.
Any power adapter should be able to survive a complete short on the output if it is designed properly.
Re:Car DVD PLayer (Score:5, Interesting)
I just checked the fuses on the car socket and suprisingly they are intact. The conditioner itself (inductor and caps) did not have a fuse. I can't actually figure out which element exploded: the whole case is town apart and the PC board shattered but all the caps look fine. it's the wires and springs that look cooked. Also it did not sound like a firecracker, it was more of a concussive sound. Our first thought was we had sideswiped an elk or someone had shot the window.
Inconceivable! (Score:4, Insightful)
Any power adapter should be able to survive a complete short on the output if it is designed properly.
And as we all know, the consumer electronics market is known for its high quality and attention to detail in their designs and build quality. ;-)
Re:Car DVD PLayer (Score:5, Funny)
"You just don't realize how explosive your consumer electronics can be when they go bad."
This isn't about consumer electronics going bad, this is about your testimony against the boss.
We'll get you next time!
Re:Car DVD PLayer (Score:5, Insightful)
That would probably have been an exploded electrolytic capacitor. The small ones inside low power devices usually just blow their tops which are scored to act as a safety valve. The larger type capacitors can literally blow up like an M80 firecracker. I've seen photos of TV sets that had a hole blown in the side of the cabinet by a capacitor going "bomb".
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This is nothing ! iPhones have been caught FLYING AWAY from their masters [blogspot.com] !
Re:Now we know why phones must be off on planes (Score:4, Insightful)
Who said it was? To prevent things like this you have to take the battery out. Oh, wait
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It'd be more whoosh-worthy if this was several years ago before non-removable batteries became ubiquitous.
Posted from my Galaxy Tab
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Re:Blame game (Score:4, Insightful)
If the battery manufacturer screwed the pooch, its Apple's fault?
They would be accountable, yes.
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If you took the battery out and put your own in then it would be yours or the battery manufacture, depending if it was marketed as such.
The Jonny Walker Analogy isn't really apt. It is more the case like you got some Orange Juice and the shipment of filtered water to make the juice was replaced with Alcohol and then you got drunk and killed a person while driving.