Apple's App Store Accepts 'Gay Cure' App 794
parallel_prankster writes "Apple is under fire for approving a controversial app created by a religious organization — Exodus International. The app seeks to help gay individuals become heterosexual. It received a '4' rating from Apple, which indicates the company considered the app to contain 'no objectionable material.' The new smartphone app was released last week and is now available through iTunes. Exodus International claims to be 'the world's largest ministry to individuals and families impacted by homosexuality.' A petition has been launched by Truth Wins Out, which describes itself as a non-profit organisation that fights anti-gay religious extremism on the change.org website, asking Steve Jobs to intervene to remove the app."
Amazing. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Amazing. (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering "Jane" used to be "John" http://zagria.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html [blogspot.com] . Sexier pic: http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/jane-fae [guardian.co.uk]
Someone erroneously posted below that homosexuality is a preference. Its not. I had a friend who was a male married to a female with 2 kids and he was homosexual. AFAIK they had no plans for divorce. I work with a m2f transgender, and I've known many male and female homosexuals and bisexuals. Honestly, I can't understand it fully, but I just look at it as gender being a bimodal distribution that has overlap between the modes. Personally, I think it takes balls to go m2f and in no way be fooling anybody.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Just where do or preferences come from? (Score:4, Insightful)
That's not how personal preferences are formed. You don't have a genetic program that determines who you will have sex with. If there were a gay gene, they'd have found it by now. Sex is a creative process, and the people taking part in it decide how it will happen. Saying you don't choose to be gay is like saying you don't choose to be an engineer. I happen to be an engineer, but I don't believe that I had to be one, or that I could not put down my computer and pick a paintbrush or a hammer tomorrow if I wanted to.
Human development is a process of growth and exploration. It's not a deterministic process of like following a flow chart to your destination. People self-select who they are and who they will become. It is an amazing process that is shrouded in mystery. Telling someone that they are who they are, and they can't choose is as bad as telling them that it's wrong to be who they are because the did have a choice. Either is dis-empowering and unloving. Ultimately, you are responsible for who you are and who you will become. Where these Christian nut-jobs get screwed up they think it's their job to take that responsibility from the ones who rightly have it.
This app is misguided, but it's completely voluntary. If it's another step in people learning about who they are and taking the next step, I'm all for it, no matter how misguided it is.
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If there were a gay gene, they'd have found it by now.
It seems that there's evidence for it [wikipedia.org]. Of course, the genome isn't everything, but it determines what tendencies we will have.
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Just like there are genes that predispose people to be fat, I'm sure there are genes that predispose people away from being straight. That doesn't mean there's no choice. It merely makes it harder to lose the weight for the former group, and harder to have fulfilling, sexually intimate relationships with the opposite gender for the latter group.
If there were no choice about it, then I don't see how my identical-twin cousins could have one turn out gay and one turn out straight.
Those who claim that it's ju
Re:Amazing. (Score:5, Insightful)
(This is in no way an ad hominem.)
Even if it were , it's irrelevant. A person (and that includes faux persons like corporations) has no more right to discriminate against you because of your choice of bedmate(s) as they do because of your choice of cheese, or beer.
Whether or not sexuality is choice is utterly irrelevant to anything. It has no meaningful impact on someone's ability to live their life, unless their purpose is discriminatory to start with.
Re:Amazing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Homosex is as natural as heterosex in that it is widely seen across species as a bonding behavior, but is condemned by religious morons because they don't allow pleasure that does not directly result in reproduction.
It looks that way in the West, but hostility to homosexuality is common in socially conservative atheist cultures such as China too. It looks more as if cultural hostility to homosexuality leads to the religious taboo rather than the other way around. Which is what you'd expect if religion is invented to support prejudices. Don't blame religion for the prejudice, blame the prejudice for (that bit of) religion.
Using "gay" as an insult in non-sexual contexts (Score:3)
This one annoyed me when it started to become popular. Maybe we should just blame South Park for it, but it seems to be a juvenile thing about making yourself feel more secure about your masculinity and sexual orientation by using the alternative as an insult and as a tool for social pressure. Is it because boys that age are still scared of girls, and need extra social pressure to go out and interact with them to avoid being thought of as gay, and they'd rather be harassed as being gay, when they're know
No objectionable material? (Score:3, Interesting)
So would a god bashing app be allowed?
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Informative)
Yep:
Atheist Pocket Debater:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/atheist-pocket-debater/id356411065?mt=8 [apple.com]
BibleThumper:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/biblethumper/id334558214?mt= [apple.com]
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In my town we have several so-called christian churches that tell families if they give money god will bless them. This of course is the heresy that prompted all protestant faiths.
As opposed to the Catholic Church, which said that if you gave them money, your loved ones would be freed from Purgatory?
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are 2.1 billion "Christians" on the planet.
Some are Mormons who believe that if they are married in a Mormon temple, they can enter the third level of heaven and become God themselves, creating planets of billions of worshipers.
Some are Catholics, and believe in intercessory prayer, where you can't pray directly to God, even though that contradicts the entire Bible. You are dependent wholly on the Church still. You get forgiveness through the Church (not God) and must confess sins to a priest.
Some are Christian Scientists who believe 95% of the Bible is a lie, and that we don't really exist. Sin is going to a hospital, because it is believing the lie that physical reality is real.
Some are the Westboro Baptist Church, who ignore 99% of the Bible, and focus largely on 1 verse which is recorded only for historical purposes, which was a law the Jews made for themselves (as opposed to a commandment from God). But frankly, they believe it is their duty to celebrate the death of innocent people because God wants everyone to die for tolerating homosexuality. Every American in particular really needs to die, except for Westboro Baptist Church.
Some, like Trinity Broadcasting believe in bilking innocent people out money. Tons of televangelists seem to believe that you can tell people that you will die unless people give you millions, because God commanded it. And those millions better go into your pocket directly.
And some Christians believe in peace, forgiveness, tolerance, decency, trying to follow Christ's example, and non-judgementalism.
Lumping all 2.1 billion Christians on the earth in one bucket isn't easy.
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:4, Informative)
The network gets a 0.3 rating in its best time slot. Less than 1% of the population is watching it.
That is a far cry from a majority/40% you claim.
Vocal minorities can easily seem like the majority because they extreme and vocal. That doesn't actually make them a majority.
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How dare they? Everyone knows pastors are supposed to work for free, same as game programmers and rock musicians.
I believe that we should give money to the Church, not for the pastor's sake, but because the Church is chartered by the government (via tax-free status) to be charitable to the poor and otherwise needy, and that is what the Church is supposed to do. If they don't then the governme
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You're mixing it up. Only the Hasidic Jews care about mixed textiles or menstruating women, as those were Jewish laws invented for the Jews.
The Catholic Church determined you need to focus on rote prayer to outside figures (intercessory prayer). The rosary may have been borrowed from outside culture. Catholicism claims to have invented in the 15th century, despite the number 108 having meaning in other religions for thousands of years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/108_(number)#Religion_and_the_arts [wikipedia.org]
I don't kn
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Christopher Hitchens is on iTunesU. Which is pro-Brain rather than pro-god. So in that regard, yes, it's very god bashing.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/christopher-hitchens-audio/id386252369
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes there's a fine line between "bashing" and "detracting" but it's there. An app that encourages gay people to not be gay is hardly bashing, even if you don't approve of the underlying assumptions.
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean an app based on the idea that homosexuality is immoral, and that such people need to be "fixed" is not gay bashing??
I'll also quote the summary prior to my response:
What you and Truth Wins Out seem to desire is censorship. I really don't understand that, at all.
It's really simple. If a homosexual person does not feel that homosexuality is wrong and does not view it as a problem that needs to be fixed, his or her option is ridiculously easy and requires zero effort: don't purchase/download this app.
If a homosexual person does believe, for religious reasons, that homosexuality is wrong, why would you stop them from downloading this app by having it censored and removed from the App Store? Is this not a personal decision for that person to make? Do they not have the right to practice the religion of their choice? Or must they obtain your approval first?
How does the presence of this app prevent someone from living the lifestyle of their choice? Simple answer: it doesn't. The effort to censor this app is far worse than anything the censors would find wrong with it. It's also an insult to the homosexual people you purport to protect. You're basically suggesting that their sexual orientation is so flimsy and non-genuine that it would be threatened by the mere option of downloading this app.
Sadly, to many people "freedom" means "the freedom to do what I would approve of". I reject this notion. So long as we are talking about consenting adults, I believe people should be free to do whatever they like. It doesn't matter whether I would do the same, whether I approve of the practice, whether I endorse and support it. Anything else is just a thinly-veiled desire to control other people and force them to be like yourself. What a cowardly and pathetic desire.
Re:Walled Gardens (Score:3)
We might have a real Ouroboros going on here.
Is it remotely possible that what goes on in the Premier App Store of the country then becomes a microcosm of what the country "decides it is thinking"? I'm not good enough at the math to do this next bit, but as a fast & rough theory, we're starting to get a Walled Garden set of laws. See that new law floating around Congress about Felonies for unauthorized streaming etc... with that level of hyperbole, I'm absolutely sure there can be a Rated G rider in it
Re:Walled Gardens (Score:4, Insightful)
Spot on. But it's important to remember that we're seeing a trivialization of government, despite the ongoing claims of government being "too big". There's an effort to make it meaningless, to put government itself behind the "walled garden" so that corporatists can do as they please. It's why I'm very leery of the "government is the problem" crowd, because throughout our history, if government has been a problem, it's been our problem. But the effort to destroy our institutions is coming from a level above governments. Destroy Social Security so all the enormous amounts of money it collects goes to the transnational banks. Destroy Medicare so the transnational insurance companies can get all that money. Destroy education and the legal system so the big corporations involved in "privatizing" schools, and prisons can collect all the money. There's a law in Michigan being passed by their GOP government to allow the governor to take any municipal government, any town, any county and just hand it over to "private industry" (which just happens to be the governor's buddies). There will still be taxes collected, but it will go into the hands of people beyond the control of citizens. After all, if you objected to say, Haliburton, how would you go about using the "free market" to bring them in line? How do you vote Haliburton or Bank of America or Goldman Sachs out of power?None of us are their customers.
TaoPhoenix, you're right on the mark with your "fast and rough theory". And the best we can hope for is that the "deep social pressure" overflows with enough force to disrupt their plans.
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How much you wanna bet?
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean an app based on the idea that homosexuality is immoral, and that such people need to be "fixed" is not gay bashing??
Would you be equally against someone releasing an app to try and stop people from smoking?
Either everyone is entitled to their beliefs and practices as long as they are not harming other people, or they aren't--at least that's how it's supposed to be in America.
If I stand here and say "I think homosexuality is wrong", does it harm you? No. To (probably poorly) quote Jefferson: It neither picks your pocket or breaks your leg.
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Right. Because what the world needs more than anything else is more reproducing people, right?
Catholic priests don't reproduce, either. Should we wipe out the Catholic Church, too?
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:4, Interesting)
Right. Because what the world needs more than anything else is more reproducing people, right?
The post you are replying to appears to have been attempting to say that that homosexuality is not natural because there is no evolutionary advantage to a lifestyle that precludes procreating. I'm no biologist, but I can certainly see an advantage to the larger community in behavior that reduces the birth rate when population density is high. Also, maybe having a gay aunt or uncle increased the reproductive chances of the nieces or nephews. Just because the GP couldn't think of an evolutionary benefit, doesn't mean there isn't/wasn't one.
Besides, who cares if its 'natural' or not. You know what else isn't natural: computers, refrigeration, espresso, etc. Lets not use 'its unnatural' as a criteria for whether something is acceptable or not.
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Not to mention that homosexuality is widespread in the animal kingdom anyway. So unless they have some other definition of "natural"...
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:4, Informative)
You should remember that just because some trait does not lend itself well to reproduction does not meant that trait is unnatural. If it was truly "unnatural" then it wouldn't occur in nature at all. However, it does occur in nature, and not only among humans.
Additionally, the human race is slowly evolving into something more than the primitive beings you seem to think we should be. Sooner or later it will become easy for gay couples to reproduce. Whether or not you consider it "natural" is of no consequence. After all, modern people enjoy so many things that are not natural and we would be loathe to suddenly have to do without them. In fact, most everything you come into contact with on a daily basis is not "natural."
God Bashing App? (Score:3)
Does it depend on which god? People believe in so many different ones! Also, why would it matter to bash some imaginary entity or entities? What about a Santa Claus bashing app?
Re: (Score:3)
In the minds of some Christians, any time you do something that doesn't "glorify God", you're basically bashing him. Essentially, you're supposed to be devoting as much waking time as possible to him in some way, either thinking about him, praying to him, converting other people to your religion, etc. So playing a game that has no religious content, or listening to non-Christian music is bad because you could spend that time doing something religious instead.
Re:No objectionable material? (Score:5, Insightful)
So would a god bashing app be allowed?
I would imagine so. Frankly, people should be applauding the fact that Apple has way loosened up on their editorial stance of the App Store and have started letting things in that are more risque and potentially offensive. It's not like they automatically install apps to your phone, you still have to go out and download it yourself. And this is certainly not an app that you will find in an Apple commercial (although I think that would be hilarious), but that doesn't mean they should have rejected it.
Freedom of speech goes in every direction, people. I know many of you think that freedom of speech should only count for what YOU think and what YOU have to say, but it doesn't. Sorry.
(I completely respect the gay community and disagree with the 'Gay Cure' app, but censorship of any kind is an evil thing that only leads to more censorship. Freedom for all is more important than emotional comfort for some.)
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Would you say that the first amendment is a good thing, so long as the only things that are allowed to be expressed are those you agree with?
If you condemn folks for having a religious view on homosexuality, you brand yourself a hypocrite-- you would force your own views on others in the name of promoting free speech.
There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Funny)
Homosexual? There's an app for that!
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I'd be interested to know how it works.
My guess is.. If the on-iDevice microphone hears you mention Justin Bieber's ass it shows you a pair of tits?
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It's a fact, and at the age of 28 I do quite think I know myself well enough to know that it's not just something anyone can change.
Dear God, you're gay.
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Funny)
I guess her username " Gaygirlie" wasn't a big enough clue?
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:4, Interesting)
the Bible also has nothing against lesbians, only gay males... actually, some of the ways of reading the book of Ruth, she can be interpreted as a lesbian.... :) Personally... I made an arrangement with the Bible decades ago: I don't bother it, and it doesn't bother me. My girlfriend has different issues with it, but that's because her father is a pastor. (personally, I think that the xian God is petty, vindictive, and cliquish, and certainly not the kind of deity I'd want to break bread with)
More on topic... the lying/bible thing... have you ever seen the movie For The Bible Tells Me So? They address the issue of these so-called "straight camps" in a pretty blunt way: it puts a kind of social negative pressure on people who are gay, discouraging them from accepting themselves, and teaching them to be ashamed of their natural feelings. That lack of self-acceptance is one of the leading causes of suicide within the LGBT community, at least in my experience. I have to ask how many gay boys and girls killed themselves without ever coming out, because they were afraid of being accepted... I have a girlfriend who's in the middle of exactly that debate with herself right now, because her parents are vehemently religious, and she's trans. I'm really worried for how it's going to turn out for her, and I sincerely hope she can get the hell out of her parents' house and into a safe place soon.
(and I tried to be straight. once. when I was 14. I got sick. literally. threw up. and didn't date anybody again until university... and yet still when I told my mom I was queer, she replied "no you're not"... I was lucky, though.... both my parents have happily accepted me once they saw the difference that not lying about myself made to my general sense of well-being and happiness).
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Interesting)
The bible we have now is the result of an app developed by a startup in Rome in about 300 AD.
That startup got venture funding from Emperor Constantine's capital funds firm
Constantine funding of the Bible app was a strategic investment. It was not for profit, but for consolidation of power.
You see, religion at this time was like a bunch of little computers that were not interconnected. They each had their own autonimous power and rule.
Constantine knew that if he created a single mainframe religion, he can exert power over the people because their bunch of little computers would no longer be relevant.
Of course, slashdot was not invented at that time, therefore there was no story
Now, with our internet and bunch of interconnected little computers, the mainframe is no longer relevant. It's pieces are now found on Ebay and many ham radio flea markets.
Luv and Peace
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're going to quote Romans at least put it in context. Paul says that the wages of sin is death. In other words, no one who has sinned can ever be worthy of a perfectly just god. That's the entire reason for sacrificial atonement in the old testament. That's the entire reason Jesus was sent to earth to die, so that the law of the old testament could be fulfilled once and for all. Paul is listing out sins in those verses. Let me list a few others: lying, sloth, lust, anger. God doesn't see any of these as any worse than another. Each and every one carries a sentence of death. But Jesus was crucified as the perfect sacrifice. Perfect in life, he is the only one who doesn't deserve to die for his sins. Since he was killed as a sacrifice for us, we can be forgiven for our sins and are no longer sentenced to death. This is hardly a call to kill people who sin.
There are some other verses you should consider (oddly enough, also from Romans) "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." Romans 12:19, NIV
If you want to bash Christianity, it's your right, but you should at least learn what mainstream Christian's believe (hint: the majority of /.ers seem to have a very poor caricature of Christianity in their heads, and seldom if ever actually know what Christians are saying or doing)
Re: (Score:3)
If you're going to quote Romans at least put it in context. Paul says that the wages of sin is death. In other words, no one who has sinned can ever be worthy of a perfectly just god. That's the entire reason for sacrificial atonement in the old testament. That's the entire reason Jesus was sent to earth to die, so that the law of the old testament could be fulfilled once and for all.
The whole thing makes zero sense.
So in the OT, God says that if you're imperfect in any way, then you deserve death (since no
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Insightful)
Since the numbers of stories about sane believers and batshit ones aren't even remotely proportional to the number of people in each group it can be hard to get a proper sense of scale. In fact, this cuts both ways: Because sane Christians aren't as news-worthy we don't talk about them as much (in the context of their religious beliefs), which might give the impression that Slashdot has a more negative view of Christianity as a whole than it actually has.
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:4, Insightful)
FYI: St. Thomas Aquinas felt that that passage was about women having non-vaginal intercourse.
And any way, you might notice that even the homosexuality among men (and among women, if you disagree with Aquinas) is listed as an *effect* of God's wrath, not a cause. And lastly, this is the one prominent person in the NT who never personally knew Jesus who's talking anyway. Jesus, the guy who told the parable of the Good Samaritan, who hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors, and other social outcasts, who said judge not lest ye be judged, the guy that "whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life" (notice the lack of conditions there).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. " -- Galatians 3:28.
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Wow, your Bible sure has some elaborate secret messages hiding between the seemingly obvious plain text saying "judge not". Is it in lemon juice and you have to hold it up to a source of heat to reveal it?
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Pro tip: women don't always mean somebody they're intimate with when they use the word "girlfriend". The woman I'm in a romantic relationship with is actually sitting right next to me, and laughing at your comment.
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I think what it is is boils down to is that some people start their self-definition with what's between their legs. When they find out that it's malleable, and based on something much deeper, it challenges them to self-examine in a way that they have never done before, and they feel threatened by that. Some of those people lash out, and attack transgenders saying it's unnatural, an abomination, or some other hateful crap rather than taking a moment to look into themselves and come to an understanding of who
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a vegetarian, and I can't agree with them. Humans are naturally omnivores, and we've been cooking meat over fire for several hundred thousand years (rather long than I'd have expected), and, well, cooked meat is tasty. I don't eat it because of the ethical issues with killing animals for food, but that doesn't make them stop tasting good.
Now, they might be able to cure you of disliking vegetables, if they've got any cooking skills, but that's really a separate problem.
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Funny)
cure someone from listening to metal
Everything after Kill 'Em All created a lot of "former metal fans".
Ergo
Wanna know how I know you're gay?
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:4, Insightful)
The "I can't help it" excuse is no more valid for homosexuality than for alcoholism. There are plenty of people for both issues who admit problems and consciously struggle against it.
But there is no rational reason to consider homosexuality as a problem, whereas there are plenty of good reasons to consider alcoholism, violence, and some forms of pedophilia as a problem. Homosexuality doesn't harm anybody, while the others actively harm the person itself and/or other people. For the same reason bigotry is also a problem, but unfortunately very few people admit the problem and consciously struggle against it.
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Playing devil's advocate here... I am completely in favor of gay rights.
But how about incest? If two relatives are attracted to each other, and wish to adopt a child, what harm is there to society? None. And yet it's taboo. People with such feelings very much need to control them, and should probably seek counseling to get "fixed".
Likewise, homosexuality (until recently) was taboo, and very much against our culture. People were taught that they need to control their feelings, and that they should seek
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Why would a gay man want a wife?
Maybe he wants his children to grow up in a home with both a Mom and a Dad.
People who want children often want this. Many consider it a good choice, perhaps even the best choice. Kids don't often wish their mom or dad would die (or disappear) and their remaining parent would move a same sex partner into the home.
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Odd, so far I've been handed religious texts by people, seen protests by people, heard loud outdoor preaching by people and even had them come to my door to bother me. None of those people were talking about atheism.
Or do you call it bothering only if they preach something you don't agree with?
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:4, Funny)
I would expect a question and answer system.
Are you a:
Tonight do you plan to:
If 1 & 1 or 2 & 2:
You do realize that if you do that you are going to hell, right?
If 1 & 2 or 2 & 1:
You make baby Jesus cry.
If 1 & 3 or 2 & 3:
Be sure to buy our merchandise!
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:5, Informative)
From the website [exodusinternational.org] it just seems like an app that shows the organization's events and explains their points of view. You may not like their points of view but it's pretty harmless. And given the rating it received it's highly unlikely it discusses sexuality at all.
Re:There really is an app for everything :P (Score:4, Informative)
So, there's no need for such an app, since on all these iDevices, people can get that info right from their website? In addition, regardless of it being an app that just does that, would YOU want to support an organization/cult that has harmed so many people? Dig deep and research them. I for one, regardless of what their app does, would be vehemently against doing anything supportive.
Correct, I've since downloaded the app and it's just a front-end to their website, all it does is download the same pages and display them in the app. It's made with a lame automatic app creation tool [methodapps.com] to make cookie cutter apps. Shouldn't be in the AppStore in the first place. I guess they were counting on the Streisand Effect from some cheap publicity.
I don't support anything about this group. I once read an article [alternet.org] about a guy that went under cover in one of those "gay cure" places they have and it seriously disturbed me. That said everybody has rights, even bigots. It's up to us sane ones to make sure there are rules that protect everyone, not to join the patients in the asylum.
Free speech (Score:5, Insightful)
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Free speech (Score:4, Insightful)
Blocking stuff based on a maturity rating is a heck of a lot different than blocking stuff based n whether you agree with it or not.
I suppose the FCC might as well start blocking shows that it finds "subversive"?
Re:Free speech (Score:5, Interesting)
I am gay, I consider Exodus International's activities deceptively cruel to the point of fraud, and I find the app itself offensive.
And I hope that Apple allows the app to remain in the App Store.
No one has a right to not be offended. If the principle of free speech means anything it means that offensive speech is also allowed and protected, or it's a hollow and hypocritical principle. Even so-called "hate speech" is still just "speech" that expresses a feeling of "hate". It should be allowed.
Just categorize the app accurately: put it with the fart apps.
Re:Free speech (Score:4)
Not all that rare. Just shouted down by the faction who don't really get it.
"Hate Speech" vs. "Speech You Hate" (Score:3)
The problem is that this speech isn't intended to cause damage to human beings. It's intended to help them overcome a problem that the organization considers to be seriously bad for them. That's much different from, say, encouraging gay-bashing, even though both of them start from the belief that being gay is bad.
Whether you agree with that or not is a separate question, but if you think they're wrong, they're not in the "Hate Speech" or "Falsely Shouting Fire In A Theater" category - they're in the "Prea
And there's the problem with a "curated" appstore. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple accepts this app and they're attacked for being anti-gay, supporting homophobia, etc... If Apple rejects this app, they'll be attacked for infringing on free speech, supporting a particular political agenda, etc... Either way, you're pissing customers off.
But all I feel is schadenfreude. They got themselves into this mess by imposing editorial control over the iPhone in the first place. They made their bed, now they get to lie in it.
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In the general population, depressing as it is, you are probably correct. Purchasers of trendy, high-end electronics, however, tend to skew towards the younger, richer, urban dwelling segment - even from a straightforward business perspective, this could quite easily go badly for Apple.
The real kicker is this -- Apple regularly rejects politically-sensitive apps, including a bunch of anti-Bush apps that people made during the last years of his presidency. One of the authors emailed The Steve about it. Jobs responded [juggleware.com]:
Even though my personal political leanings are democratic, I think this app will be offensive to roughly half our customers. What’s the point?
Steve
Censor or not? (Score:2)
It will be interesting to read how many people want this app censored. I'm guessing someone will even try to argue it was wrong to censor the Mark Fiore app but that Apple should censor this one.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Censor or not? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd also expect them to censor an app which implies someone's sexuality is a thing which can or should be 'cured'.
Why? What if a guy wants to change? Shouldn't he be free to try? Or should other people decide "The Right Choice" for him?
And maybe he can't be "cured", but maybe he can have a life that is closer to his preference. You'd deny him the opportunity to try?
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Streisand Effect in 3, 2, 1... (Score:2)
Seriously. How many more downloads will be generated for it based on this press?
All this app does is display the text: (Score:5, Funny)
'Religion Cure' app? (Score:2)
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Anyone have a 'Religiousness Cure' app handy that can help people become atheist? Would be fun to watch the reactions when Apple approve that one...
Apple has approved a number of atheist apps, including one using the mildly derogatory term "BibleThumper": http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/technology/03atheist.html [nytimes.com]
Re:'Religion Cure' app? (Score:5, Funny)
Anyone have a 'Religiousness Cure' app handy that can help people become atheist? Would be fun to watch the reactions when Apple approve that one...
If reading the Bible doesn't turn people into atheists, no app is going to do it.
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The beginning of the end? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The beginning of the end? (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't deciding what to sell (and what not to sell) something that every retailer does on a daily basis?
Should every store that does not sell everything be expecting a law suit?
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Consider the magazine example. You own a magazine shop and you find Playboy, Penthouse, and their ilk offensive. You don't want to carry those magazines.
Well, of course, you have every right to not carry them. However, it's likely that if you don't carry them, those customers who would buy those magazines will stop buying all their magazines from you. After all, a customer isn't going to buy Field & Stream and Guns & Ammo from you
Re:The beginning of the end? (Score:5, Funny)
Should every store that does not sell everything be expecting a law suit?
This is America. Everyone should always be expecting a lawsuit.
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Sure, but at the same time they shouldn't expect not to be judged by those decisions. Particularly when one of their criteria is for the products it sells to be "family-friendly" to such a degree that an app for browsing swimsuits or lingerie with models pictures is banned, but then they allow an app about "curing" homosexuality like it is a disease. If you're going to play moral policeman, expect to hav
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
OR you could read RTFA and find out this has happened before :
"However, when faced with a similar issue last November, after an app was created around the Manhattan Declaration which is hostile to gay marriage, Apple came down on the side of gay rights and removed the app."
OR you could have a look at the website [exodusinternational.org] and see that the app looks like pretty much just an app-version of their website, with a calendar and twitter feed and so on ... real scary stuff (!)
Nah, let's just all stay ill-informed proceed wit
lol (Score:4, Insightful)
It's funny to read the same people decry Apples appstore censorship appeal to Steve Jobs to remove the app on the basis.
Free Speech hurts doesn't it?
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Yeah, hypocrisy is a bitch isn't it.
Those of us who are deriding Apple here are doing it for the same reasons. Apple are showing their hypocrisy here, first by censoring applications that they have a problem with but not censoring applications that others have a problem with. The problem is with double standards, Porn must be stopped but attacking Gay's is perfectly OK.
Apple chose
Ok. (Score:3)
Apple started this (Score:3)
If they hadn't assigned themselves the rule of censor, nobody would complain about this. The app would still be offensive, but Apple would be assigned no blame for allowing its distribution. It would be held up as an example of universal freedom of speech.
Having decided to act as the official nanny of every Apple customer, though, they are fully responsible for the shit they let through, too. Don't let them off the hook for this.
I'm going to download it (Score:3, Funny)
I'm going to download it so I can write a review. Here's the preview:
"**** awesome app. I was blowing random dudes at gas stations but after 3 days of using this app I'm down to finding Justin Bieber attractive. With constant use, I hope by next week I'll like boobs."
Unintended consequences (Score:3)
Stop the political correctness overreaching because they're well beyond the point of affecting my individual rights. It is equal protection under the law, not the orwellian equal protection for all but some are more equal than others
Being gay cannot be cured (Score:3)
And yes, insisting that the sexual preference that God created someone with is something that needs to be "cured" is offensive on many levels.
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I assume that you include the app's authors and publisher in this, yes? They take it quite seriously.
Re:Oh come on. (Score:5, Insightful)
So... an app designed to turn black people white and de-black-ify their speech and appearance would just be good natured fun too? Just curious.
Homosexuality is not a choice and is not a disease. It can no more be 'cured' than heterosexuality, or race, or eye color (you can put in colored contacts -- just like you can go into the closet -- but it doesn't change the underlying reality of your eye color -- or sexuality).
The app is ignorant and bigoted and offensive, as well as pushing an agenda based on hatered and lies. That honestly sounds like 'good natured fun' to you? Really?
I agree with you that the app is absurd. But I don't find it particularly hilarious, especially knowing the number of people damaged and even driven to suicide by anti-gay "ex-gay" programs. There's a real human cost here, and I just can't laugh at that.
Re:Oh come on. (Score:4, Insightful)
The app is ignorant and bigoted and offensive, as well as pushing an agenda based on hatered and lies. That honestly sounds like 'good natured fun' to you? Really? I agree with you that the app is absurd. But I don't find it particularly hilarious, especially knowing the number of people damaged and even driven to suicide by anti-gay "ex-gay" programs. There's a real human cost here, and I just can't laugh at that.
Then don't download the app. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to decide what speech is damaging. The human cost for the suppression of free speech is far far greater than anything this app could possible do.
If this country oppressed free speech, then slavery may not have ended, Jim Crow may not have been defeated, and homosexuality may still have remained in the DSM as a mental disorder. At the time, speech proposing the end of any of those items was considered ignorant, offensive, and pushing an agenda based on lies.
Moralities change in this country, and what is considered offensive, dangerous, and disgusting evolve and change. But through it all, we retain the right to speech and that is--more than anything else--what allows us to evolve as a society. It is the thin layer separating us as a free society from an oppressed one where some self-imposed leader decides what is right and what is wrong.
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So says the all-knowing oracle (Score:5, Informative)
"You don't know any 'ex-gays' either. Because there is no such thing. There are only gay people who have gone back in the closet."
That would be a surprise to those I know. I was wrong on one point. I thought you were going to say they weren't gay in the first place, just experimenting.
Either way, the fact that it is a choice doesn't fit into your pro-homosexual agenda, so it can't be an option.
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Good point. Doesn't he remember being asked before being born if he wanted to be attracted to guys or girls? I do. It was right after the questions asking what I want my favorite color to be and if I want to be right or left handed. I can't imagine why anyone would chose the gay option given how much more difficult it would make their life. Perhaps he just wasn't properly informed about his choices. I guess he can complain to his god about that.
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Re:Now I'm no homophobe... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. It doesn't sound like a "completely unrelated point" to me ...
2. You come across as a "the gentleman doth protest too much" type. Repressing?
As for your prior claim:
Do you have any proof that sexuality of any sort is a "preference"? Did you wake up one day and decide that you were going to be a straight sexually-repressed Catholic? Or did you become straight because Jesus, the Bible, or someone else told you it was the "right thing to do and you should put away those shameful lusts?
Or did you instead just realize that you instinctively preferred partners of the opposite sex? Same as gays and lesbians realize it despite all the social pressure to deny it?
If you don't want people criticizing your bigoty, JUST DON'T POST! It's that simple!
But since you put it out there, let's see some proof of your claim that heterosexuality, homosexuality, lesbianism, transsexuality, etc., are "nothing more than a preference."
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Search for 2D-4D digit ratio. The growth rates of the index and ring finger are greatly influenced by prenatal hormones, which in turn are influenced by several factors, including birth order and the fetus's genes (which can both trigger and respond to hormones).
Testosterone usually makes the ring finger grow longer. There are ethnic variances, but generally, men's ring fingers are longer than their index fingers, gay men's ring fingers tend to be even longer (almost as long as their middle finger), and
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I fail to see the correlation, especially since my ring finger is shorter than my index finger.
1) Do we really have to explain the difference between correlation and certainty? By your logic, you're neither male nor female, since *nobody* statistically has a shorter ring finger than index finger (men average a shorter index than ring, while women have the same size).
2) I seriously doubt you're using the measuring protocol, which involved a flatbed scanner and many techniques to control for measuring bias a