iPad Owners Are 'Selfish Elites' 780
An anonymous reader writes "It's not exactly official, but should also surprise no one: According to a new study the psychological profile of iPad owners can be summed up as 'selfish elites' while have-not critics are 'independent geeks.' Consumer research firm MyType conducted the study, in which opinions of 20,000 people were analyzed between March and May. The firm's conclusion was that iPad owners tend to be wealthy, sophisticated, highly educated and disproportionately interested in business and finance, while they scored terribly in the areas of altruism and kindness. In other words, 'selfish elites.'"
The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
The way I see it the iPad/Phone/Apple in general is like a very large, beautiful prison cell. Sure, WE might walk far enough to reach the walls and be unhappy about it, but to the average consumer (who doesn't walk far and never reaches the walls), it feels like beautiful freedom. It's like the restrictions don't exists.
Sampling Bias? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this site about news for nerds, or gratuitously bashing companies and/or their customers for no discernible logical reason?
Troll article. (Score:3, Insightful)
People with disposable income buy widgets (Score:5, Insightful)
News at 11.
Seriously ... it's a fairly pricey, non-essential gadget. The demographic they are describing is exactly the one that can afford such a thing and not think twice about it. They also buy many other non-essential shiny things.
You could say the same thing about Mercedes automobiles.
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this site about news for nerds, or gratuitously bashing companies and/or their customers for no discernible logical reason?
This site is about generating readership and discourse because that leads to more ad views which is their primary source of income. You may accuse them of baiting the users to incite a veritable shitstorm of comments with a particular summary instead of having actual valuable content or you can claim that this is what interests nerds and therefore should be reported on. Both are true. Plus it's CmdrTaco editing which can be more volatile than the other editors.
I would posit that particularly resentful stories that are sure to create serious nerd carnage are accepted when they come from high profile sources. What I mean is that this is coming from Wired which has one of the higher approval ratings of nerd news out there and not some unknown site. You're free to go to the original source [mytype.com] for more data (which, ironically, is an unknown site but does a good job of visualizing the survey data).
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
The way I see it the iPad/Phone/Apple in general is like a very large, beautiful prison cell. Sure, WE might walk far enough to reach the walls and be unhappy about it, but to the average consumer (who doesn't walk far and never reaches the walls), it feels like beautiful freedom. It's like the restrictions don't exists.
Sorry, but that's kind of a depressing analogy. It seems to me that most of the people with iPads are getting exactly the features they want or enough of the features they want that the ones they don't have don't matter. If I only wanted or needed a car on weekends and someone rented me a car Saturday and Sunday for a good rate I'd be happy with that, even if it wasn't ideal on long weekends.
I don't own any Apple products and I don't intend to any time soon (my wife breathes fire at the mere mention of an iPod) but they seem to make people happy.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:1, Insightful)
I reckon the above should be marked insightful rather than trolling. In some ways it is correct, although inflammatory.
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:1, Insightful)
"The thing that really strikes me these days is the hatred for ordinary Americans by the elites."
Ordinary Americans have allowed themselves to become loathsome. They think religion is science, they crave circuses instead of information, they are lazy, and they let their pandering media pundits of choice think for them.
It's natural to despise such people. They cannot be changed, improved, or made noble, but they can be milked.
P{ao}d people are an odd bunch in general (Score:1, Insightful)
I've never seen a group of people so willing to pay a premium for (assumed) social status and pretty hardware in exchange for a platform which requires you to give up most of your freedom to experiment and innovate; except within the strict boundaries of what's allowed by Apple.
Re:Ahh, the old days... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's exactly what they want you to think, via marketing. You're falling right into their diabolical trap!
No, their market is actually douchebags with more money than sense. Which this article is just confirming.
Re:Oh, like my mother (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems to me that most of the people with iPads are getting exactly the features they want
Well yeah, considering that, for most of them (judging by the iPhone users and other macfans), that consists of "it's shiny and makes me look hip."
Sometimes I think these people would pay a grand for an Etch-A-Sketch if it was white and smoothly-rounded.
Yes, they named YOUR grandpa specifically! (Score:1, Insightful)
Yes, they named YOUR grandpa specifically!
"The firm's conclusion was that iPad owners tend to be wealthy, sophisticated, highly educated and disproportionately interested in business and finance, while they scored terribly in the areas of altruism and kindness."
Oh, sorry, no they didn't.
But YOU are an asshole, so it still evens out.
Re:Ahh, the old days... (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, it's the difference between the Mac-owning Apple customers and the iPhone/iPad/iPod-owning Apple customers. Obviously some own products from both categories (and can thus fall in either category or both) but lots of Mac users like Macs (artsy types for the industrial design, workflow and such and the UNIX geeks for the UNIX underpinnings and no-fuss setup which reminds us of the old-school UNIX workstations that actually sort of worked out of the box) without liking iPhones, iPads and iPods (although as a Mac user I actually also own an iPhone 3G, it's served me quite well but I can see how it may feel limited or overpriced to many others).
Do glasses get me shot? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not going to apologize for having an education and (finally) having a bit of money - although I still rent and have worked food kitchens. But hey - I'm an intellectual - shoot me and evacuate the cities for farming already. My skull will look good on a shelf.
(seriously this is thing is covered in Teabagger language - are they serious?)
I don't own an iPad (Score:5, Insightful)
Or any other Apple product. But any study that comes off this way must be seriously flawed and is in no way scientific. First we have the problem of defining what a "selfish elite" is. Call me when the whole world agrees.
This is nothing but a smear campaign. Oh wait, the article says that this "data" was obtained by a "Consumer Research" firm, not the American Psychological Association, or some scientist. If we follow the money, I wonder who hired this company...
Re:Sampling Bias? (Score:5, Insightful)
My thought exactly. Maybe only elitist snobs took the survey? In fact, according to the study author [mytype.com], the surveys were taken via Facebook, which I would expect already has a bias to it. (He also mispells the name of a another stat firm, Forrester.)
Secondly, they assume "selfish elites" based on people self-identifying themselves as "interested in business and finance". This is a purely psychographic correlation. They have made ZERO correlation to income levels or other economic demographics. This study is absolutely useless as a result: a homeless man interested in business and finance would still qualify as a "selfish elite" under these methods.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
The way I see it the iPad/Phone/Apple in general is like a very large, beautiful prison cell. Sure, WE might walk far enough to reach the walls and be unhappy about it, but to the average consumer (who doesn't walk far and never reaches the walls), it feels like beautiful freedom. It's like the restrictions don't exists.
Sorry, but that's kind of a depressing analogy. It seems to me that most of the people with iPads are getting exactly the features they want or enough of the features they want that the ones they don't have don't matter
So, pretty much exactly what he said, just worded a bit more cheerily?
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
"C": Nerds sometimes enjoy gratuitously bashing companies and/or their customers for no discernible, logical reason.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Well yeah, considering that, for most of them (judging by the iPhone users and other macfans), that consists of "it's shiny and makes me look hip."
No, it's shiny and makes me look hip and it actually helps me do useful stuff in ways I couldn't before.
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
Ya, I hate Apple and its products as much as the next anti-fanboi, but this submission just comes across as.. juvenile?
One step away from an ad hominem attack.
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:3, Insightful)
They are "obviousness investigators" (Score:5, Insightful)
In other news :
Expensive luxury products are bought by people with lots of money who want luxury for themselves. This probably goes for quite nearly all apple products.
- Captain Obvious
overgeneralization (Score:5, Insightful)
Well yeah, considering that, for most of them (judging by the iPhone users and other macfans), that consists of "it's shiny and makes me look hip."
My mother has an iPad and she fits your gross generalization in no way whatsoever. In fact, she fits into a completely different category I would just call 'convenience based end user.' She cares almost nothing for what others think of her aside from how good her casserole was at the pot luck or if she was a good hostess for Thanksgiving. I'm really tired of the /. mentality on what an Apple product user is.
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Troll article. (Score:5, Insightful)
How did this bullshit troll article make the front page? C'mon editors, this is ridiculous.
I assume, then, that you have examined the study's methodology and discovered that is invalid, and are not simply being a knee-jerking iFanboy who has suddenly discovered sand in one's own vagina?
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:4, Insightful)
As per the religious right, while I am certainly not defending the religious right, I do sort of understand where a lot of them are coming from. The radical shift towards radical religion didn't really start until the 80s the elites started moving factories overseas en mass. When these factories closed a lot of people lost any real shot at finding meaningful work that paid a living wage. People want to find SOMETHING meaningful in their lives and since working retail isn't exactly the most fulfilling of occupations people start to look elsewhere for a reason to get up in the morning. The religious right was able to seize upon this unease and started pushing people into finding meaning in their life by becoming religious zealots.
Elites complaining about the society in which they shaped does strike me as a bit hypocritical.
Re:P{ao}d people are an odd bunch in general (Score:1, Insightful)
I've never seen a group of people that have such blinders on that don't realize that the market for the ipad isn't programmers, it's users who aren't giving up any damn freedom to experiment and innovate at all because they don't have the ability to do so in the first place!
Re:Oh, like my mother (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it's not a rule. It's a really broad generalization, based on some subset of iPad owners.
At best the sample is sketchy ...
So, it's a heavily self-selected set of Facebook users (who might themselves be selfish elitists moreso than everyone else), which may or may actually be representative of anything. To top it off, the typical iPad critic:
So, people who like the product are elitist bastards, and the people who don't like it are knee-jerk elitist geeks who live in their mothers basement and are responding viscerally as opposed to rationally. (And, yes, I'm intentionally injecting some slant to that.) But, I do mean the elitist geek -- the kind of person who believes that since they know something about technology, everybody else is misinformed and stupid. That's about as elitist as you get, and just as anti-social as the conclusions arrived at by the 'study'.
I think people are responding to this so strongly because it takes a sample of 20,000 people, drawn from the Facebook pool who already voluntarily self-selected themselves to participate. In my estimation, that makes the statistics pretty worthless since it's not drawing on a representative sample. Heck, as I said, do Facebook users themselves have a tendency to be elitist, narcissistic selfish bastards? It almost seems like drawing entirely from Facebook gives you a sample bias towards people who like Facebook.
I just don't see any validity to the sample, methods, or conclusion of this article. Any time anybody tries to make such a broad set of statements, people are going to get their hackles up, because it sounds like the worst sort of stereotyping.
Attention Slashdot Users. (Score:2, Insightful)
You are NOT the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You have NEVER been the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You will NEVER be the target audience for the iPad/iPhone/iPod.
You are NOT the target audience for iTunes.
You have NEVER been the target audience for the iTunes.
You will NEVER be the target audience for the iTunes.
The target audience for the iPad/iPhones/iPod and iTunes does not care a fat rat's ass for YOUR perceived "limitations" and "restrictions" that Apple imposes.
The target audience only wants something that works when it's turned on. The target audience wants a simple seamless one click music buying experience that buys the file and places that file in the correct spot inside iTunes.
Please, feel free to vent and complain and moan and piss and bitch all you want about Apple and its products.
The people that buy Apple products like Apple products. They don't care what you think, nor does what you think affect how THEY think of Apple products.
You are, essentially, pissing into the wind.
Thank you for your kind attention!
Re:Generalization time (Score:3, Insightful)
It's good that there aren't any linux, err, GNU/Linux (peace be upon RMS and his beard) zealots that fit the same bill.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Sometimes I think geeks will buy lousy products just because they are marketed with geeky buzzwords like "openness", "linux" or "free", even when those products are not really open *to them*[1], they do not implement a linux build that is truly optimized to the device[2], they come with badly implemented dev tools[3] and cost even more than apple products.
People buy android based devices because it is considered "hip" amongst geeks as much as "selfish elites" do it with apple products.
[1] The geek consumer thinks "open source" is heap and buys an android phone, only to discover he just bought a walled garden with software he can't get rid off.
[2] Some android based devices could have worked much smoothly with an optimized OS instead of just throwing android on them.
[3] It is amazing how sucky and sloooow the android simulator is, for example. It is almost unusable and you end up testing on the device all the time.
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:4, Insightful)
Become? My friend you describe the human condition and it goes a lot higher up the social ladder than you would care to believe. When has man not cared for mindless entertainment over the persuit of knowledge. What generation has not described the youth as rebellious, crass and rude? When have people chosen to think for themselves instead of eating up propaganda.
Don't fool yourself, this is what people are. Sure there are those who break this mold in one way or another (often in a rather negative way) but what you describe is the human condition. It is not limited to one country or one time period.
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:4, Insightful)
What is the difference between this nonsense and the nonsense that tyrants spout? We should despise people because they aren't as strong as us or different from us? Because that's what you're saying.
You come off like you're better than "them" but you're not.
Seriously, explain logically how you are better than them and why we should despise them. It's illogical and reeks of idiocy itself.
I have a bridge for you... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Generalization time (Score:1, Insightful)
but Apple fanboys(girls) are rabid on a level that is just plain scary.
Of course, we could say the same for a lot of Linux geeks, Android geeks, football fans, political partisans, and folks of any religion (including atheism, yes).
Some people are disposed to being tribal assholes. I've never seen any compelling evidence that this is because of what product or ideals they support, these things just delimit their tribal boundaries. Trying to pin this on any one product or ideology just furthers that divisiveness and makes us a part of it, too.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
You know, I'm going to define your "we" as people who feel the same way as you do thereby giving you a smug sense of self and superiority. Just as elitist as people are accusing the iPad owners of.
I don't mean that to be rude, but you seem to think that "we" is all geeks. It isn't. (Sorry, I don't meant to attack you, but you're a good example of "oh, it's OK for the average consumer, but not us" which I think is just as bad.)
Seriously, I've got an honors degree in comp-sci, I've been coding for around 20 years. I've got Linux and FreeBSD virtual machines (I've had physical boxes over the last 15 years too), and I know my way around technology. My favorite editor is still vi. I've read just as much sci-fi as the next geek.
Do you know why I bought an iPad? There's lots of reasons -- not the least of which is in my estimation, the iPad represents the first new change in computer interfaces in my lifetime. If there is something which is even similar, I'm unaware of it. Even as a geek, I don't want to tinker with everything all of the time. Thus far, I've not paid for a single app on the iPad -- there's literally hundreds of free applications for it, and loads of free content in the form of eBooks. It's an exceedingly comfortable form factor that unchains me from a desk. For reviewing large technical PDFs, I'd rather use iBooks on my iPad than my laptop -- not the least of which is I can have an unlimited number of bookmarks in a document. So, last week when I was reviewing a PDF document of approximately 1000 pages, it was far easier to flip through the sections I needed.
The next time I go on vacation, I've got music, movies, games, and books to keep me entertained for days. I can sit in my backyard in a lawn chair and read my email, surf the web, or just read a book. The fact that I can plug it into my existing iTunes which I already had for my iPad was a bonus. It's not like maintaining a whole computer -- it's a device, which I bought knowing full well wouldn't be used like a general-purpose computer.
Yes, you could buy a netbook for less. But, I don't want a netbook. I don't want to have a keyboard and a mouse. I want something I can use laying down for casual usage. You wouldn't use it for extensive work -- though, with something to prop it up and a bluetooth keyboard, you could use it much more extensively for document editing.
Even knowing there are "walls around the garden", I don't exactly feel restricted by this device. If anything, I feel somewhat liberated by it. I find the more rigidly defined behavior of it to be a great simplifier -- it really is an easy device to get used to, and I use it entirely differently that I would use a desktop or a laptop. They're complementary in my experience.
It is entirely possible for an actual geek to like the device. And, it certainly has nothing to do with someone else's perception about me or the device -- it rarely leaves the house. The walled garden is hardly like being shackled, it's more like a place where you can work in peace without getting pestered.
Re:Generalization time (Score:2, Insightful)
The anti-Apple crowd on Slashdot is pretty crazy too.
I hate the stupid Apple ads and I hate the iFuck hipsters I see in NYC. But I own and iPad an iPhone and a MacBook Pro as a comp sci major because all of them serve me well. Furthermore, many of our professors have encouraged us to get Macs, almost all of my classmates in compsci have macs and the one or two people with PCs are always the odd ones out. Granted, a lot of people will dual boot with Linux but the professors like Apple because it is great for development and Unix derived.
The people who piss me off are the ignorant masses on Slashdot who have absolutely nothing to say except things that will get them jerked off by other Apple haters which don't translate into the real world as meaningful in any capacity. Furthermore, it is blindingly obvious that it is derived from an inferiority complex seen often in teenagers (and man children) where anything that is popular or seen as mainstream is shunned in order to build up an image and define ones self as separate from the pack. Just like these groups in high school, however, it becomes laughable because while they may shun the Abercrombies and Hollisters they end up all shopping at Hot Topic and conforming with each other and it's really just a pot v kettle situation. The main difference is, when you grow out of it, you realize that the Abercrombie people weren't the douchebags you all thought they were just by bitching and moaning; you were the douchebags because all you did was hate shit, not enjoy things and act like everything was below you.
Re:Surprise, surprise (Score:5, Insightful)
I've heard this sort of claim before and I never really got the classification system here. Who are the "elites" exactly? Is it based on money? Because a lot of the people railing against the "elites" have more money than the "elites" they rail against. Is it based on self-perception? The big city professional may look down on the Bible belt housewife as unsophisticated, tacky, and ignorant, but the Bible belt housewife may look down on the big city professional as immoral, degenerate, effeminate, and communist. Does that make the housewife an "elite"?
Re:They are "obviousness investigators" (Score:2, Insightful)
You know, there's a reason it gets modded funny. If you need a "portable consumption device" you're exactly what the article claims.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Well yeah, considering that, for most of them (judging by the iPhone users and other macfans), that consists of "it's shiny and makes me look hip."
Sometimes I think these people would pay a grand for an Etch-A-Sketch if it was white and smoothly-rounded.
Sometimes, the product I'm using is simply an outlet for my geeking, like when I fire up Linux in VirtualBox. Other times, I need a tool like R, which has few if any limitations (though it has a corresponding complexity). Most times, though, I simply need a tool that elegantly and straightforwardly does the job. In no case does "it's shiny" or "it makes me look hip" have any bearing on the matter. And I think I'm not alone in this.
Of course, a sense of style and elegance of operation is important... for you as well as me. Unless you simply wear trash bags instead of clothes, because trash bags are stainproof, waterproof, and cheap, I imagine you actually wear clothes that are comfortable and look good. And I doubt that you make all of your own clothes because you insist on pockets being a specific width and lined with a specific material.
Similarly, when I need a computer, I have choices of multiple languages, multiple OS's, and multiple IDE's on my MacBook. When I want to read a book, or get the news, or check the weather, or follow a flight's arrival status, or check my stocks, or monitor tasks, or organize my thoughts, or handle most email..., I use my iPad or iPhone or other convenient form factor. And I don't need to use a half-baked interface designed by a geek instead of a designer in order to do so.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:2, Insightful)
"I understand full well that the iPad is only a fraction of what it could be if it had been produced by a company other than Apple and ran Android instead of iOS."
So why is it that a few Android devices exist in this vein, and none of them are even a fraction of the use that Apple brings it?
By that same token, Linux should be vastly more usable than Windows or OS X. I *REALLY* can't stand Windows, and I run my business off of unix based servers...but I have to say, I'd use Windows over any Linux distro out there.
Freedom does not necessarily afford more useful features or a more stable operating environment, or even more programmers to give you quality products.
I bought a Nook last year knowing it was Android. It went back to the store just like the Kindle. I hacked it and installed a few apps on it, but being an android device didn't make it any more special. Honestly, if I only needed an eReader...it still wouldn't have been good. PDF support sucks. (Just like on the Kindle...which acts as though it is there, but 'reflows' anything that is not of the simplest format into something unreadable). Unless you get the files in the exact format that the Nook (or Kindle) want, expect to not be readable.
Anyhoo...
Re:P{ao}d people are an odd bunch in general (Score:3, Insightful)
Well since Apple isn't forcing anybody to buy their stuff, the bottom line is people like it. For various reasons: ease of use, simplicity, streamlined design & aesthetics, whatever else. Apple has passed Microsoft in market value, and had a string of successes over the last decade: iPod, iPod market, iPhone, iPad. Chalking that up to a few fashion seeking clueless posers is disingenuous.
What I can't figure out are people who keep thinking the rest of the population actually cares about the limits that Apple imposes. Apple has sold millions of devices. The market has spoken, the vast majority simply doesn't care, and if other companies had more of a clue and design skills, they'd compete. Maybe those other companies are staffed with people with their heads buried in the sand, refusing to consider "freedom to experiment and innovate" just isn't that high on the priority list of 90% of the customer base.
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:3, Insightful)
Ya, I hate Apple and its products as much as the next anti-fanboi, but this submission just comes across as.. juvenile?
So, is it just an irrational hatred because you think Linux is better and everybody else is wrong, or are you actually basing it on something?
Because, around here, it seems popular to hate Apple just as it used to be popular to hate Microsoft a few years ago.
Having been around computers and technology since the 80's, and having been a raving Linux fanboi at one point, I'm no longer sure I get why people divide up into camps. I have Windows, Linux, FreeBSD all running at home. I've got iPods and now an iPad -- it was iTunes that made me choose iPods since I've had a really good experience with it in the decade I've been using it. I haven't use a Mac in over a decade, but I can't think of reason to hate them. They're a bit spendy, but there's nothing inherently wrong with them.
It just sounds like you're defending a hatred of Apple because it's trendy.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm curious. What are those things that you coudn't do before?
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, my toaster can also make cheese on toast and even small pizzas, so that's not a great example, but even if it were, it's a different sort of limitation. A toaster can only make toast because it is a simple device. If you can modify it to something else, however, no one is stopping you. It is typically held together with standard screws. You can remove them, modify the heating elements, or do whatever else you want with it.
Now imagine a toaster that, in addition to these limitations, contains a colour sensor near the heating elements and refused to toast white bread. There's no technical reason why it can't toast white bread, but someone at the manufacturer has decided that white bread is unhealthy and has invested engineer time (paid for out of the money you paid for the toaster) to ensure that you can't do it. The toaster might toast brown bread absolutely perfectly, and you might not actually like white toast that much, but would you buy the toaster knowing that this was the attitude of the company that made it?
Re:Duh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Sadly, not so.
I feel strange here, defending Apple, but your inference isn't correct.
Fujitsu and other tablet PC makers based their products on Windows, not (as Seinfeld might say) there's anything wrong with that. The actual form fact was larger, heavier and had more cubic displacement in prior models having similar functionality. Kindles don't fall into the iPad category in terms of overall functionality, but they're good media playback devices.... unless you need storage and decent video playback. The iPad is smaller than notebook/tablets, does have a longer battery life, and comes with an ecosystem of stuff you can put it inside that Apple largely has to vet for ostensible wholesomeness (not that there's anything wrong with that). You have to be willing to either user WiFi or AT&T's plan, so you need to have some masochism, unlike the Fujitsus (et al).
Apple's iPad also syncs up in some ways with Apple's other wholesome products and has familiar Apple media consumption stuff, something that the Windows-based machines don't have. Oh, wait....
Some people need walls and prisons. Reminds me of the end of Kubric/Clark's 2001, A Space Odyssey.
Re:heh ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Do some research on tax breaks from charitable donations before throwing that shit around.
Long story short: You don't "make" anything giving money to charity. Donating money isn't some sort of con into not paying taxes and ultimately saving money. You give to charity and you pay taxes. Sometimes, you lower your tax bracket by deducting donations.
Re:Ahh, the old days... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure when liking a product that meets your needs turned you into some sort of fanboy deserving of an epithet, but it's sort of sad. I use a Mac ( a 5 year old one at that, but it suits my needs as a developer to have a UNIX machine with a good user interface and still be able to play an MMO game once in a blue moon). I also have an iPad, and I really like it for surfing on the couch. It's not that I have more money than sense, it's just that I like it, and I have enough money to buy it, so why shouldn't I? I use a Nokia N900 too, does that make me a socialist? I like Diet Coke, does that make me a shill for a sugar water company hellbent on making Americans fat and complacent? Maybe so, but somehow that's not how I identify myself.
People can be independent thinkers. Buying a product doesn't force you to assume a company's brand identity as your own.
Too bad... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:They are "obviousness investigators" (Score:3, Insightful)
Would you like a more complete breakdown? Here's the actual study by the people who did it with their full write up [mytype.com]
Re:Generalization time (Score:5, Insightful)
> Nearly every Apple *fan* that I've met
> has been a pretentious prick.
Congratulations, you've derived the definition of the word "fan", short for "fanatic." Owner != fan. Most sports fans are pricks, too, at least when it comes to "their" team.* Same with Ford/Chevy fans and all the rest. At least Apple fans have some class--I've yet to see an iPad with a decal of Calvin peeing [google.com] on a tablet PC.
Back on topic, this article is absolute trollish bullshit--nothing more than a generalization. I can guarantee you that my 62 year old mom, 54 year old aunt, and 76 year old neighbor (all Apple users, one iPad (so far) among those three) are neither selfish nor elitist. What's next, a front-page Slashdot story proclaiming that Windows users are all mouth-breathing lusers and Linux users are either arrogant greybeards or basement-dwelling loners?
* hey, at least Apple fans do something with what they're fanatical about. Ooh, you paid money to go sit in a stadium and yell at a bunch of millionaires who wouldn't give a shit if you died in the stands? Good for you.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:5, Insightful)
I was cursed out yesterday on
Not trying to beat you up over this - I think you've got enough internal anger so that you don't need anyone else to fan the flames. If you find some of the things here offensive, roll your eyes and laugh about it. That feels much better than remaining bitter and enraged does.
Re:overgeneralization (Score:5, Insightful)
I know what you mean. It's almost as tiresome as the way people generalize about the /. mentality.
Re:overgeneralization (Score:4, Insightful)
They also used to be all about interoperability, and complained like crazy whenever Microsoft made it harder to migrate off their system. Now they exploit vendor lock-in across their family of products way more than Microsoft ever has or will, and expect you to smile about it.
Call me a social reject if you want, but I'm going to continue to not do business with companies that over-hype, under-perform, and lie to you with a condescending smirk on their face while they do it.
Re:Seriously, I want to know (Score:3, Insightful)
It just sounds like you're defending a hatred of Apple because it's trendy.
I think you need to learn to read entire sentences. It seems that you got up to "I hate Apple..." and then clicked the reply button immediately.
Rotide can hardly be accused of defending hatred of Apple when the point of the entire grandparent post is to label the article as juvenile for deriding iPad owners by using stereotypes.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
You know those tasks that you can use a netbook or a laptop for, but that can sometimes be a little annoying, that's where the iPad excels. It is clearly a niche product - it does not replace a standard computer, but it fills the gap for people who want portable computing on a screen bigger than an iPhone but who don't a netbook.
I don't have one (student, lacking disposable income) but I did borrow one for a couple of weeks and I can see exactly how it would fit into my daily life if I owned one.
I liken it to owning two cars - a big family car with a huge luggage space and 7 seats, and a smaller Smart Car with only 2 seats, very limited storage space but the benefit of getting 70mpg and the ability to park perpendicular to the kerb; the ideal errand vehicle for short trips and little jobs, but no the car you would take on a 300 mile journey.
It's not that you can't do things the iPad does if you don;t own one, it just offers a different way to do them that some may find convenient. I personally don't need a miniaturised computer with a full keyboard, array of ports, CD drive etc for the times I want to quickly check my email or watch a TV show on iPlayer in my living room. A netbook can do both of those things perfectly well, but in both cases it's a little bit overkill - if I want to type a serious email or a long document I go to my main computer. If I'm watching TV, all I need is a screen.
I have an XBMC box connected to the TV which I control with my iPhone, and I know the equivalent iPad app would look lovely with all those graphics and banners on the large screen, with more room for the touch controls and information - it would be practically like being in Star Trek with a Padd or Tricorder. Essential? Not at all. Controllable with my standard Apple IR remote that came with the iMac? Of course. Better than using that remote? Definitely.
When you boil down any modern convenience you are left with "what can you do that you couldn't do before" and the only real answer is "a new choice in how to do something". You could cook food before the microwave, you could check your email before the netbook, you could make a cup of tea before the electric kettle, you could make a phone call before the cellphone.
So, yes it doesn't do as much as a netbook, but what if it doesn't need to? More choice is good and it adds a new option for those looking for extensions to their main computer.
Re:Ahh, the old days... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:P{ao}d people are an odd bunch in general (Score:2, Insightful)
Huh? Just what "experiment and innovate" activities are in question, here?
Setting aside the over-generalization of people merely seeking social status and "pretty hardware," just what are people who use an iPad giving up? The only thing that comes to mind off the bat is viewing Flash. Small inconvenience, rarely miss it. I'm sorry, but the image of people using a tablet computer to browse the web, read e-mail and play games actually being interested in "experimenting and innovating" is just silly. People who want that are on their desktop, writing code. Trust me, the Apple development environment provides tons of room to experiment and innovate--but again, that's irrelevant because we're talking about iPad users, not developers. Apples (if you'll pardon the expression) and oranges.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean really! Only 4 OS updates before they quit supporting the hardware from before they made an architecture change? I'm so sick of this treadmill where I have to upgrade every 7 years!
BTW I bought both the G4 iMac, and the Intel Mac Mini that replaced it used.
And I don't know what you're talking about with losing files. You make it sound like Apple routinely changes file formats with no backward compatibility. Unless you're referencing the 10.5.1 issue with moving files from local to network storage.
Re:Ahh, the old days... (Score:2, Insightful)
Werd.
I may actually be more likely to buy an iPad now that I've seen this. Just out of spite.
Re:They are "obviousness investigators" (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe I'm a selfish elitist, but if I bought an expensive new toy, I wouldn't let you touch it either :-P
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:2, Insightful)
So..let me get this straight,
In order to even *use* an iPad, you're required to have some form of wi-fi or AT&T Wireless service? of what use is it really?
I can edit a document/spreadsheet/whatever on a netbook if I want something lightweight (I don't own one, mind you) or on my laptop; even if I'm in the middle of nowhere, without wi-fi access. I can print on portable printers..they make small, portable projectors so you can show presentations to clients. With no network available, I can still work.
Tell me again why an iPad is so useful?
(oh, yeah, and don't drop one from more than 1ft high---the screen will shatter. it happened to someone I know from work; they posted the picture on FB. It was knocked off of a coffee table onto the carpeted floor even.)
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Before I bought my first iPhone? Surf the web happily from my phone. There was mobile web browsing pre-iPhone but I found it unpleasant. On the iPhone, it worked.
Actually, basically all the things that a blackberry did three years ago, but did in an unpleasant enough way that they were not compelling, the iPhone made compelling.
Ease of use (and pleasantness of use) is a feature. I know that's an unpopular sentiment on /. where ease of use is to be ridiculed (see MS vs Linux), but similar to how Apple made a unix based operating system accessible to the masses, they also made the smart-phone accessible enough to me, that I would buy one. Their competitors have (largely) caught up, but give them their due. Apple democratized the smart phone with the iPhone.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, I'll bite:
I recently bought an iPad to replace an old laptop and a portable DVD player.
It's better than the portable DVD player because instead of carrying around DVDs, I can just load up movies from iTunes. I can rip the DVDs using HandBrake, and put them in iTunes, or I can buy stuff from the iTunes store. As a nice bonus, it's also a much better map in the car than an iPhone, because the screen is so much bigger.
It's better than the laptop because it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper than buying the new laptop we were considering. It can handle all of the same tasks we used the old laptop for (it was our living room computer which we mostly used for checking email, web browsing, etc. while hanging out with our kids, watching tv, etc.). It's also easier to use standing up, which is great when you mostly use the computer for only a minute or two at a time to lookup a recipe, read a few emails, check movie times, etc.
I was initially skeptical of the iPad because its limits are pretty obvious (like most tablet computers). But it fills a niche for me much better than a laptop would, and at a lower price.
-Esme
Kind words mean nothing. (Score:3, Insightful)
People can have kind words and yet do nothing because they barely have the means to help themselves. In other cases, these "have nots" just have different priorities and spend their money on their vehicles instead leaving very little for anything else.
It could be that people who are well off simply don't talk about being altruistic and kind but rather put their will into action by helping others either through volunteering or donations. Not everyone feels the need to list off all of the good that they do because they have no interest in seeking the praise or approval of men.
You can answer a study to appear altruistic and kind and yet being either unable or unwilling to help others.
Re:They are "obviousness investigators" (Score:3, Insightful)
and I volunteer every week and give away a portion of each (meager) paycheck.
You're not poor. The "poor" category could not volunteer any time (unless unemployed) and DEFINITELY could not let go of a penny of their paycheck. The fact that you have an iPad and bought it, along with contemplating an android-based phone, means you have disposable income. Perhaps not a lot, but it's there.
You are what most people refer to as 'low income'. Other's would simply refer to you as a student.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
I liken it to owning two cars - a big family car with a huge luggage space and 7 seats, and a smaller Smart Car with only 2 seats, very limited storage space but the benefit of getting 70mpg and the ability to park perpendicular to the kerb; the ideal errand vehicle for short trips and little jobs, but no the car you would take on a 300 mile journey.
Mostly off-topic, but according to the EPA the Smart ForTwo only gets about 36 mpg. Which actually fits pretty nicely with your analogy, as it is a vehicle designed to look eco-friendly and trendy, but doesn't actually perform very well in that respect.
Actually, I think the iPad is way better than a Smart car - it might actually be useful for something at some point (I've only played with one a friend won in a raffle, but it was kind of cool - can't really say anything positive about the Smart car, which might have been interesting if it got in the neighborhood of 50 or 60 mpg but is totally useless as-is and is only owned by eco-posers with too much money and too little sense).
Re:overgeneralization (Score:5, Insightful)
Newsflash: Most of us have reasons for why Apple sucks. Just because we don't feel the need to wax poetic or pontificate at length about it doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means we don't feel like it.
Or, rather, they don't feel like it. I, on the other hand, love waxing poetic on how I can't stand Apple. Yes, they make legitimate decisions about what they think the best computing experience is. My problem is that there is no room for me what-so-ever in their calculations; I am not allowed to make my own decisions about what hardware I should use, or what I'm allowed to install.
First, they remove my ability to build my own machine, which is akin to giving me a most excellent christmas present that requires assembly, but not letting me put it together. Sorry, but you just took 98% of the fun out of getting a new machine. A pre-built computer feels like I'm always using someone else's computer - not mine.
Second, I have to jump through hoops just to get any app I want, even if I am willing to take the chance that I might be screwing myself over. To Apple, an informed consumer who is willing to take the risks regarding hardware (traditional computing devices) or software (ipod touch, iphone, ipad; the walled garden approach) is not welcome in their universe. Or so unwelcome that they make them jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops just to do something that should be patently trivial.
Apple isn't trying to market to me, they're trying to market to people who expect someone else to make everything work for them. I'm quite content (maybe even happy) doing that work myself, I feel like using OSX is akin to being told to tie my shoes with my teeth. I'm sure there are people out there who can rip through that in seconds, but it feels alien and cumbersome to me. Maybe it's seen as "better" by some, but better is a truly subjective term; I decide what is better for me, not an Apple UI engineer (who I am sure spend a lot of time thinking about it, but that still doesn't mean I like it better!)
I don't expect this to change your mind - obviously you're content with Apple, and I honestly think that's great. But don't sound surprised when those of us who feel constantly patronized and pressured by the Apple Marketing department and their volunteer wing, Apple Evangelists come calling. I don't mean to offend you, but an Apple Fanatic is precisely as bad as a Jehovah's witness interrupting early morning sex on a lovely Saturday morning. To expect those of us who don't respect what Apple produces to love you for pushing it is just irrational.
(Not that I hate loud apple fanatics, any more than I hate the Jehovah's witness who came-a-calling, but I certainly reserve the right to hate what they do).
How accurate can such a study be? (Score:3, Insightful)
How do you accurately measure somebody's altruism? Some experts say that such a characteristic does not actually exist. How do you accurately measure somebody's selfishness, or elitism?
If you test people on their opinions of themselves, would those opinions typically match the opinions that other people hold of the tested people?
If somebody was truly humble, would that person call his/her self "humble?"
Does Bill Gates consider himself to be a rotten bastard? Is Bill Gates a rotten bastard? I mean, can such a characteristic be objectively decided by anybody, much less the person his/her self?
Re:overgeneralization (Score:3, Insightful)
I wrote an entire disertation on why I hate the Genius Bar once. I am not a fanboi. But I like Apple's products and I hate these borderline troll articles and I hate the people who come in a say "Apple and everyone who likes them are stupid" because they piss me off. It's not about whether you like Apple or not, or whether I like Apple or not. It's about this idiotic mentality that discussion can be summed up in "UR A FAGGOT" statements. I tend to go crazy and participate when I see this, by trolling back because I have a short fuse and get easily angered but in general this whole attitude of "yeah FUCK APPLE i dont know what I'm talking about" is what pisses me off.
Re:"you found it unpleasant"??? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
"I understand full well that the iPad is only a fraction of what it could be if it had been produced by a company other than Apple"
Om yea okay, because all of those other companies are putting out all those other so much better tablets running those better OS's. < /sarcasm >
Apple might not be the darling of geekdom anymore (something I don't think they every really aspired to), but the fact is, no other company would have produced anything close to the iPad, and as of today no other company has. To say that some other company and OS could have done this so much better is just simply ignoring reality and replacing it with some pseudo dogmatic wishful thinking.
Re:I can generalize too! (Score:1, Insightful)
You were one of those kids who couldn't come up with witty responses, so you resorted to "I know you are, but what am I?" retorts, weren't you?
Altruism and kindness. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Disposing income as one sees fit (Score:4, Insightful)
A family that needs 6 separate "consumption" devices is a sad thing.
Just imagine the lot of them each hiding from the rest in their own corner of the McMansion.
Although that does address the lack of multi-user awareness on an iThing.
Re:Disposing income as one sees fit (Score:4, Insightful)
6 iPads is about $3000. A nice HDTV-centered home theater can easily cost as much.
I think you missed my point entirely. The average family does *not* spend $3000 on *either* a "nice HDTV-centered home theater" OR 6 iPads. The average family buys a 42" HDTV from Walmart for $500 and has either a dish or cable hooked up to it.
You replied to a post that implied that mostly the rich are buying iPads.
In your post you seemed to be offering a counter point to that - but in doing so you seemed to reinforce his point (and the summary)*and* you seemed to say that *your* household usage was in fact normal and not unusual. This is where you swerved into "self parody" and "lack of insight".
Both are for "consumption"; one is portable.
The average person would never use the term "consumption" when describing the use of an entertainment device. Again you showed here that you are far from average personally, apart from iPad ownership issues.
Some of us, having such disposable income,
There is a recession going on - what percentage of American families do you think are blowing money on multiple iPads? I'm guessing it is in the .005% range.
You spend your money your way, I'll spend mine my way. Neither is evil based only on size/quantity of screens.
Again you misunderstand my point. I am *not* a liberal. I have no interest whatsoever in how you choose to spend *your* money. You earned it - you spend it.
Re:The iPad is not that bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Selfish Elites Definition needs some work (Score:2, Insightful)
You clearly suck at logic.
"wealthy, sophisticated, (and) highly educated" = elite.
"while they scored terribly in the areas of altruism and kindness" = selfish.
Nice try though.
Re:overgeneralization (Score:2, Insightful)
My problem is that there is no room for me what-so-ever in their calculations; I am not allowed to make my own decisions about what hardware I should use, or what I'm allowed to install.
First, they remove my ability to build my own machine, which is akin to giving me a most excellent christmas present that requires assembly, but not letting me put it together.
Of course the question must be asked - where were you when Macs were incredibly easy to open and upgrade parts. The entire box folded open like a piece of origami for access to vital parts, and then folded back for operation. No screws to undo, cables to unwind, just a few locking clips and unfold away.
If there were enough people who liked that in the '90s, then Apple wouldn't have had to change its way of doing things to become profitable again. Hence, the reason Apple doesn't care about you is that to them, you don't matter. The extra effort and spending just to entice you to buy one of their products is just not worth it. Or don't you like capitalism?
Apple used to say 'think different', but now they just go for the bulk majority market, and sorry but that just isn't you. It isn't really me either, but then again I managed to break the last easy-access motherboard I laid my hands on so currently I'm just looking for a computer that doesn't pretend to be accessible.
~
Meanwhile, back on the point of the article, I never thought that 'wealthy, sophisticated, highly educated' people were particularly kind or altruistic to begin with. Maybe it's just that selfish elites can afford iPads while non-elites cannot.