Foxconn Workers Getting Raise With Apple Subsidies 284
hackingbear writes "Workers at Taiwanese electronic outsourcing manufacturer Foxconn are getting a pay raise after a series of 13 suicides, including three in three consecutive days. According to an article by state-run newspaper China Daily, Apple concluded that the main cause of the suicides is low wages. (The media has also attributed the suicides to a variety of other factors — everything from the semi-military style of management, to long overtime, to China's one-child policy, and Foxconn paying too much compensation to the family of suicide workers, thereby encouraging copycat suicides.) Apple plans to subsidize raises using its own products (Google translation; Chinese original here) — the first one being the iPad. This would raise the outsourcing cost from 2.3% to 3% of the iPad's sales price. The article does not say the amount of the raise per worker, but it is rumored to be about 20%, according to other Chinese news sources."
Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:4, Insightful)
No doubt, Apple actually trying to help will be seen negatively too - let's see if any of the subsequent comments say so (my money's on yes...). Honestly, the anyone-but-apple brigade make the fanboys look calm, collected, and sane.
Simon
Re:Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly! These people were building products for Dell too (among other well-known computer companies). Wonder if we'll see Dell step up to the plate and offer a larger percentage of their profits to these folks as a pay increase? (I'm betting not.)
What about.. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about Foxconn itself? (Score:3, Insightful)
Foxconn also sells branded mainboards of their own, etc. How about they just increase the pay at their factories, and up prices a buck or two? Two bucks means nothing to me, if they want to pass that onto the consumer I'm willing to open my wallet.
Re:Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:2, Insightful)
More important than the fact that Foxconn makes electronics for just about everyone, is that these suicides aren't statistically surprising. I don't have the numbers, but I recall some commenters on previous Slashdot stories working through the math - basically, the factory employs tens of thousands (?) of workers, and China already has a high suicide rate. The suicide rate in this factory, per capita, was actually *lower* than China as a whole.
I believe there were seven or eight suicides when that other article appeared on Slashdot. Now with 14 the factory's suicide rate is probably on par with China as a whole. Wake me up when we've got 40 or 60 suicides.
Oh, and presumably the outrage comes from the fact that our corporations are profiting from the despair of mistreated factory workers. To that I say - NO SHIT. Is there anyone who thought these Chinese factories *weren't* sweatshops that mistreat workers?
How about reduce their hours by 20% instead... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm under the impression that the workers there already make relatively more than most similar jobs, and a 20% raise doesn't seem like it will make much of a life-changing difference for anyone (especially if they don't have time to spend it :P)
And just how far can money go to compensate you for hellish working conditions?
So why not give them some more breaks / shorter hours each day?
G.
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:4, Insightful)
Probably because Apple products are 2-3x more expensive than those of their competitors. It's well-known that Apple's profit margins are extremely high compared to their competitors, and that makes people think that perhaps Apple is a bit greedy.
I'm not saying it's deserved or anything like that, but I can definitely see why people think that way.
Re:Encourage more suicides? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should we let Apple (or any other company) abdicate responsibility for their supply chain? If Apple chooses to work with Foxconn, then Apple is on the hook for ensuring Foxconn is a reputable and humane supplier.
Or is it okay to let a company like Apple accrue the benefits of outsourcing (i.e. lower prices, more flexible manufacturing, etc.) while ignoring negative consequences (i.e. environmental damage, inhumane working conditions, etc.)?
Re:How about Foxconn itself? (Score:0, Insightful)
No you aren't.
Everyone will use someone else and Foxconn will be cease to be an option, even for you.
Re:How about reduce their hours by 20% instead... (Score:5, Insightful)
ok, but why are they working massive overtime? Is it because the job requires them to ("do it or you're fired") or is it the pay that requires them to ("If I don't pick up 6 extra shifts I can't pay my rent next month").
While the 20% will not help the first case, it would make quite the impact on the second...
Re:How about Foxconn itself? (Score:3, Insightful)
Since all middlemen's shares of the price are percentage-based, raising the price two dollars at the factory probably means that the product will cost an additional $10 or more in the stores
Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:By comparison (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple (or any other company)
Care to try again genius?
Re:How about Foxconn itself? (Score:1, Insightful)
Since all middlemen's shares of the price are percentage-based, raising the price two dollars at the factory probably means that the product will cost an additional $10 or more in the stores
Then lets get rid of the middlemen. This keeps getting better with every new idea!
Re:Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:3, Insightful)
If Tiger Woods had portrayed himself and marketed himself as the "Bad Boy, Rockstar" of golf, the press related to his affairs would have been different. Because he had branded himself as the good, loving husband and a stand-up role model for children, the press latched onto it more because fo the hypocrisy.
Same with Apple.
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Why should we let Apple (or any other company) abdicate responsibility for their supply chain?
I'm not saying we should. It's just disingenuous to call it "Apple's plant" which I've seen repeated over and over again. Lots of companies contract Foxconn and Apple seems to be the only one trying to fix the problem so why are they the one being singled out for criticism.
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize pretty much every computer on the planet has components from Foxconn in it ... right?
I guaranty you that the computer you used to post has components they make in it.
Unless you plan on no longer using a car, your PC, probably your TV and several other devices, you won't be doing a damn thing to 'stop the problem'.
Apple benefits from Slavery. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nuff said.
When you outsource to foreign lands that force workers to sleep on the assembly lines, and in the factories... for 65 cents an hour, you're supporting slavery. (This is the common work condition of chinese labor)
I'm sorry. Apple wanted to cheat the economic system by not hiring Americans, because we have lives and high expenses due to the cost of living in America. Why pay Americans who only want to work and have a home and healthcare, when you can hire Chinese slaves who are easily replaced no matter how many of them commit suicide.
Fuck every corporation that sold America out.
Re:By comparison (Score:4, Insightful)
The chinese don't commit suicide because they are too busy working overtime.
Seriously, what is this pitiful statistics you are trying to use ?
There have been 13 suicides at the working place, and, to my knowledge, suicides at the working place are very rare in our western countries.
Frankly, if you work 18/7 and spend the rest of your time to sleep and eat, your life means pretty nothing after a few months. And only naive people believe that they can get rich by their work.
BTW, in France, there have been 37 suicides in 2 years in the biggest telecom company: France Telecom, mainly because the company is changing (FT is becoming a private company, and I can assure you that it means a lot more work for some people there, who are accustomed to doing nothing !).
In France, we count the suicides both at work and at home, as long as you are working for the company.
Re:Well this sucks!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
``Why should we let Apple (or any other company) abdicate responsibility for their supply chain?''
Well, I see it like this: Apple (or any other company) wants something manufactured. So they approach some manufacturers to make them an offer. Foxconn (or any other bidder) says "We can do it for so and so much." Among all the bidders, Foxconn has the most attractive offer, and Apple believes they will be able to make good on it, so they sign the deal.
Is that all there is to it? Well, pretty much yes. If Apple didn't trust Foxconn enough, they probably wouldn't sign the deal. This trust can cover anything from fear that Foxconn might go belly up before having delivered, to causing negative press for Apple. In the end, there is no real way for Apple to be certain that such events will happen, or will not happen, if they sign the deal with any of the bidders. The best they can do is make a risk assessment, pick the winner of the bid, encourage them to do the right thing, work with them to help them do the right thing, and help fix things if things still go wrong. And it seems to me that this is exactly what they are doing.
``If Apple chooses to work with Foxconn, then Apple is on the hook for ensuring Foxconn is a reputable and humane supplier.''
I think that's debatable. Certainly, you may _like_ Apple to try its best to ensure that every supplier they work with is reputable and humane. And maybe they are doing that. They are, after all, paying extra to support the plan to curb the suicides. But even if Apple do their best, there is only so much they can do. They don't control Foxconn, and, last I checked, Apple didn't have a standing army or a special ops unit that could force Foxconn to do what Apple would like them to do. So it's really Foxconn that has to fix things - Apple can only encourage them, help them, and, if that fails, walk away from Foxconn and distance themselves from Foxconn's practices should Foxconn not clean up its act. So I really thing "ensuring" is too strong. Apple can't do that, so it's unreasonable to expect that of them.
American Workers Just Can't Compete... (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember this story the next time you try to defend our all-mighty corporations' choice of offshoring every single job possible with the simple-minded argument of American workers just can't compete; they need to toughen up, take a lower standard of living, work harder, become better educated, etc, etc...
In a globalized world, there will always exist a shit-hole even worse than the last. Uless your idea of being more competitive really means accepting conditions so poor that death seems a valid alternative to a rather significant portion of the work-force, you might want to start thinking of a better argument.
Re:By comparison (Score:1, Insightful)
If they live, eat and sleep at the working place, where else would the suicides take place?
Re:Just for the record... (Score:3, Insightful)
The suicide rate among foxconn workers is not only lower than for the population of China in general, but also lower than every US state. Every suicide is a tragic event, but I'm not buying the contention that their jobs are driving them to do it.
Suicide rates vary widely between different population segments; you cannot fairly compare the suicide rate of factory workers in Shenzhen to the suicide rate of rural farmers, for example. The better comparison would be the suicide rate of Foxconn employees to the suicide rates at other electronics manufacturing, and I'd think if other factories had similar suicide rates we might not be hearing so much about this in the news.
While these suicides may be due to statistical chance, do you not feel it is worth it to investigate possible causes and show some empathy for factory workers making $100/month working 100 hours/week? Let me provide an analogous real world comparison: Helix High School in La Mesa, California, had four teacher-student sex scandals in as many years. Given the sheer number of high schools in the United States, it is probably within statistical reason to expect a single high school to coincidentally have four sex scandals. Should parents and the community write the problem off, or should they look at their faculty policies and other factors that might be contributing to the problem and see if there is something they can do to prevent future sex scandals?
Re:Just for the record... (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it lower than -workplace- suicides in any other part of the world?
The number never included suicides at home!
Re:Apple-haters in 3,2,1,... (Score:3, Insightful)
A huge ripoff to who?
It's an expensive device, for sure (and I don't have one), but if it does exactly what its purchaser wants, is that a ripoff?
Like you say, a Dell Mini 10/9 can provide that function for you, but what if I don't want a permanent keyboard? Or I want a tablet-shape?
Right now, the iPad would be excellent purely as a textbook reader - just my organic chemistry book alone is 1600 pages and is a severe PITA to carry around, so for that I would much prefer the form factor of the iPad over a netbook.
Based on your figures the price premium is £164, which is quite a chunk of change but I expect that to come down with revision 2 - I'd hardly call it a "huge ripoff", but I am also not going to claim it is right for everyone.
Re:By comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
The chinese don't commit suicide because they are too busy working overtime.
Seriously, what is this pitiful statistics you are trying to use ?
There have been 13 suicides at the working place
There have been 13 suicides at the Foxconn complex which also contains free housing for the employees.