iPhone's Liquid Sensors Can Be Triggered By Wintertime Use 484
An anonymous reader writes "The Polish website Moje Jabluszko ran an experiment that proves the poor reliability of the liquid contact indicators (original, in Polish) installed by Apple in the iPhone. They performed three different tests to challenge the LCIs, which they recorded as a movie. They decided to mimic regular usage of the iPhone — meaning, you go outside where it could be cold or warm, then move inside in a building where temperature might be dramatically different, but still within covered conditions. So, they placed the iPhone in its box for one hour outside at -11 C, then moved it inside at room temperature for 24 hours. They repeated the experiment 3 times, and after the third cycle they could show that the LCI located in the audio jack plug started turning red! This is a clear proof that LCIs are not reliable and could turn red while the iPhone has been used under the defined environmental requirements defined by Apple. Here, only the condensing water could have been in contact with the sensor. In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!" (In the tech specs for the iPhone, Apple rates the non-operating temperature range as -20 to 45 C.)
Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Funny)
We do a lot of service on macbooks at work, and there's been times when we've taking a unit in for service that "won't turn on" and the user "has no idea why", only to find out they're drippy inside, and none of the liquid sensors are tripped.
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Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Insightful)
i don't see why a manufacturer should give me a new laptop / phone / etc if i drop it in water. they cover defects not misuse. if they did cover things like that, the price goes up for everyone. i take care of my stuff and i'd rather not overpay up front so dummies can get a new laptop by dropping it in the tub.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't end - Apple is the reflection of Steve Jobs, and Steve Jobs is a control freak. That's not necessarily a bad thing, so long as everyone that buys Apple products understands that to be the case, and accepts it: So long as you're content to let Apple tell you what's best for you with regards to those things that you buy from them, then you'll be fine, happy and content. And, for the majority of those that buy Apple products, that will be the case.
Apple has done an admirable job of creating a controlled computing environment, after all. They control the hardware, the OS, and so the software that runs on top of it. There's MUCH to be said for this approach - overall stability is greatly improved, for the most part. The "end user experience" is mostly consistent, which lends itself to ease of use and so, Apple customers are, for the most part happy: All they want is for their computers to "just work", and for the most part, that's what they get.
Apple has taken this approach, and applied it successfully to the iPod, iTunes, the iPhone - every time they branch out, they use the same methodology: Create an enticing product over which they have complete control, forever, make it fashionable, stylish, *the* thing to have. Apple is cool, after all, and so, too, are those that buy Apple products.
They've carefully cultivated this image, and gained a loyal, in some cases, fanatical, following.
And I say, with no cynicism at all - GOOD for them! There's obviously a market for this approach, and they should milk it for as much money as they can.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not what it does that's at issue, it's what it will be used for.
It's basically a litmus test. If it's red, your warranty service will be refused, even if what the sensor indicates is an error.
You may have received the laptop with the sensor already triggered.
Some condition (other than you dunking or getting the PC weight), such as the one described in the article might have triggered it.
Anyways, if you have a problem, your warranty service gets refused as if you dunked it, even though you did not.
The CSR will just assume you're lying, since the "sensor" proves you dunked it. That's what's sort of Orwellian [mechanism above human].
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Funny)
They really have liquid sensors in them? That seems so... Orwellian. Does that not bother anyone else?
I can't quite figure out if this is flamebait, or if I'm just the only person who can't make a connection between liquid sensors in a consumer electronic device and a dystopian police state. If a liquid sensor bothers you so much, I hate to be the one to tell you, but ... don't turn your iPhone around ... there's even a camera!
So, no, to answer your question: it doesn't seem to bother me a bit.
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Well, the camera would bother me if Apple used it to record me voiding the warranty, and watched a playback of everything it had recorded when I took the iPhone in for service. That would not be cool.
But these LCIs, that's what they do on a very basic level. For some reason, I'm not comfortable with that. Maybe I'm just not indoctrinated into this new privacy-free culture enough.
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That's not what they do at all. I don't really see how this violates your privacy.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Informative)
According to some of the other posts on here, it seems like Apple has already covered this in the warranty agreement by specifying that the phone shouldn't be used in humid air where water can condensate.
Lame, sure, but hardly a conspiracy.
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Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:4, Insightful)
Granted, that's a problem, but it is not some Orwellian violation of your privacy. Comparing a less-than-perfect LCI to the dystopian police state portrayed in 1984 is some of the most hysterical chicken-little "the sky is falling" bullshit imaginable.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Insightful)
According to some of the other posts on here, it seems like Apple has already covered this in the warranty agreement by specifying that the phone shouldn't be used in humid air where water can condensate.
That's not an enforceable clause anywhere I know of. The iPhone is marketed as a portable phone, among other things. It's not portable if you can't take it into environments people commonly go into. Ergo, this all falls under the implied warranty of fitness for purpose.
Good luck fighting for it when Apple has "evidence" against you.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:4, Insightful)
Talk about a gregarious black-or-white fallacy.
"Not using the phone where humid air can condensate" is a thinly veiled euphemism for "not taking the phone outside your house, ever".
This would not be a mobile phone.
Case in point:
Summer: Miami, sunshine, excellent weather, 80% humidity, 35 degree Celsius. Houses are air conditioned: 25 degrees, 50% humidity. Perfect weather for the region in summer. Leave the house with your phone in hand and humidity will condense on it instantly.
Winter: Seattle, sunshine, excellent weather, 30% humidity, -10 degrees Celsius. Houses are heated, 20 degrees, 30% humidity. Perfect weather for the region in winter. Leave the house with the phone in your pocket, stay outside for 2 hours, come back into the house, voila, humidity will condense instantly.
If you routinely wear glasses, you'd know that humidity is condensing practically everywhere, every time.
A phone that cannot handle the environment of regular cheap non-waterproof wrist watches is not a mobile phone.
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Funny)
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Nearly. You can only have your phone there during the day. Don't keep it there overnight as the LCI may be triggered by the dew.
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Oh you do find some Apple users there. They just keep it IN THE CLOSET.
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Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Orwell 1984 (Score:4, Funny)
Very true. For instance, by applying methods first outlined in the paper "Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis" (Statistical Science 9: 429-438) to Orwell's Animal Farm, I discovered the following statement appears no less than 16 times!
"Android good, iPhone Bad!"
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:4, Insightful)
They really have liquid sensors in them? That seems so... Orwellian. Does that not bother anyone else?
Liquid sensors on a mobile device are Orwellian.. +2 Interesting. And Apple fans are the ones considered to be in the Reality Distortion Field?
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The purpose of the sensors is to keep tabs to see whether you behaved well with the phone. It's a secret device (to most people) that can only be used against you to Apple's advantage. It demonstrates a lack of trust and good faith on the part of Apple.
Nobody's saying Apple is about to start torturing people... but why is this *not at all* Orwellian, which you're implying?
Re:Doubly unreliable (Score:5, Interesting)
He said "to most people", and this is the absolute truth. The vast majority of people have no knowledge that mobile phones are equipped with these sensors, and there's absolutely zero on the packaging or the user documentation to indicate such in almost all cases when it would be trivial to do so, which is prima facie evidence of the manufacturer's intent to conceal the presence of the sensors from their customers. It's just like the practice of putting a Tip-N-Tell inside a crate containing expensive equipment in addition to the ones placed on the outside, to reveal if the shipper has mishandled the package and tried to cover it up - you want to make sure the shipper is honest, but you don't want the shipper to know you're watching him.
Just the same, I don't necessarily disagree with Apple or anyone else using them (even covertly), as long as they're absolutely reliable - warranty fraud is a real problem, but so is having a legitimate warranty claim denied just because you live in Florida and it got cold one day.
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It could merely have been a particularly bashful sensor.
Scam (Score:5, Insightful)
LCI are just a way for companies to worm out of actually delivering on warranties.
Re:Scam (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah mod that up. The liquid sensors don't protect the devices in any way, other than to let you know you got the thing wet at some point. Many warranties are basically written to rule out the common things that would break a phone. It's especially annoying when you're paying a monthly fee for the warranty that adds up to the price of the phone or more in a year anyway, the least they could do is replace the thing when you break it even if you did drop it in your gin and tonic. If they make you agree that's not covered, fine, but then their sensors better be rock solid reliable. False positives are unacceptable.
Re:Scam (Score:5, Insightful)
Solution:
Don't
Buy
Warranties
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Warranties are like insurance. You're paying some money for the feeling of safety. There are times when its worth it- when the replacement cost of the device is too high for you to comfortably pay. Buying one for something as cheap as a phone is stupid, but I can see it on larger purchases- say a car.
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My concern as well, 70% humidity here in central florida is not uncommon and walking from that into a cold room can cause enough problems.
non-operating temperature range... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Err those are the safe temperatures for a switched off phone, not a range for which the phone must not be operated.
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The specs [apple.com] say differently:
--- Mr. DOS
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Re:non-operating temperature range... (Score:5, Interesting)
The specs say differently:
Environmental requirements
Operating temperature: 32 to 95 F
(0 to 35 C)
Nonoperating temperature: -4 to 113 F
(-20 to 45 C)
Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
You have got to be kidding me!!!
*Minimum* operating temp of 32 F?!?!?!
How the F can they sell this phone in northern climates? I live in WI and in Feb I will frequently go outside on a nice day to take a conf call and get some fresh air. A nice day being, at least, in the upper 20's.
Seriously dude, WTF?
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Welcome to California. Apparently, none of our Northernisms (I'm Canadian, eh) are welcome Cupertino-wise. That is pretty mind-bogglingly high even for there, though - it does snow there sometimes.
(Wow, I dragged you out to reply to my humble post? Sorry! ;) )
--- Mr. DOS
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
(Wow, I dragged you out to reply to my humble post? Sorry! ;) )
Also a 'sconsinite. In rural parts the internet is often located outdoors, so during the winter months it's quite a trek to have our slashdot posts delivered.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm lucky this season, but most winters it's considerably colder at this point in the year and I've got to FedEx my packets down to an Internet uplink in New York or they'll freeze and clog up the tubes.
The latency's a bitch...
--- Mr. DOS
Re:non-operating temperature range... (Score:5, Informative)
From the Nokia N900 user's guide:
Do not store the device in high or cold temperatyre. High temperatures can shorten the life of electronic devices, damage batteries, and warp or melt certain plastics. When the device warms to its normal temperature from a cold temperature, moisture can form inside the device and damage electronic circuit boards.
Avoid extreme temperatures. Always try to keep the battery between 59F and 77F (15C and 25C). Extreme temperatures reduce the capacity and lifetime of the battery. A device with a hot or cold battery may not work temporarily. Battery performance is particularly limited in temperatures well below freezing.
Perhaps Finnish winters aren't as frigid as I was led to believe.
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And it regularly hits 40 degrees Celsius where I live in sydney. What are we not allowed to use our phones on hot or cold days? Just one more reason for me to not buy an Iphone.
Condensation? (Score:2)
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Uhm.. yes, and the OTHER part of the 'defined operating conditions' is the humidity range, which is typically for electronics listed as 5%-95% _NON_CONDENSING_
So as much as it sucks, guess what, the sensor is accurately recording that the phone's been outside of operational specs.
Re:Condensation? (Score:4, Informative)
The sensor trips, even if the phone is not being operated (e.g. it's powered off) when these conditions are encountered.
Re:Condensation? (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't break. The article isn't about breaking, it's about the environmental change triggering the sensors. The ramifications are that Apple may/will refuse warranty service if they have been triggered, even if the failure was not a consequence of the humidity/condensation.
So you take your phone out on a cold day, bring it back in, then three months later it dies of natural causes. Apple refuses to fix it because some condensation occurred three months prior.
Although it's rare for a device to die just from some slight condensation, it's technically outside the specification. The way the warranty is worded, though, it would appear that they can only refuse to service devices for actual damage caused by the out-of-spec environment, not just because the device ever was in that environment. However, the burden of proving that the condensation didn't cause the issue is probably on you.
Uhhhhh... Condensation? (Score:3, Insightful)
As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation. Is this not a liquid?
Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.
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The iPhone might be well within the specified temperature range, but not within the specified humidity range.
Emphasis mine. Turns out condensation is outside the environmental specifications.
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Then why are they selling in in a country where the environmental specifications can't be reasonably met for half of the year?
What if the spec said, "proper operation only guaranteed in hard vacuum", in small print?
Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation? (Score:5, Insightful)
So... where exactly do you get any place where you NEVER have noncondensing humidity? I mean hell, I live in Colorado and it's dry as a bone here most of the time, and my glasses still fog up. Putting a clause in a warranty that essentially says "You're not covered if you actually use this device as advertised and intended" is immoral, and I believe illegal in many places.
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The sensors are working fine, but they trigger even when operating the iPhone well within the specified temperatures. In essence, using the iPhone as intended may still void your warranty.
That assumes that tripping the the sensors voids the warranty. That's not necessarily the case.
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The problem is it's tripping a sensor within the documented parameters... Which -- as anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you (providing they used those classes to RTFA), void the warranty.
Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation? (Score:4, Informative)
As anyone who wears glasses could probably tell you, if you go outside for a while, then come back inside (mimic the conditions of the 'experiment'), the glasses are highly likely to fog up with condensation. Is this not a liquid?
Sounds to me like the sensors are working just fine.
No they aren't working properly.
The Apple warranty http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/02/20/0118230 [slashdot.org] on page 2 eliminates warranty claims if the iphone has suffered liquid spills or submersion.
Yet the sensors trip via simple humidity changes, not unlike those the phone would experience in daily use in northern climates.
The sensors are essentially exposed to the outside of the phone, one in the ear-phone jack, and another in the 30 pin connector.
Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation? (Score:4, Insightful)
Non-condensing. It's right here: http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html [apple.com]
Environmental requirements
* Operating temperature: 32 to 95 F (0 to 35 C)
* Nonoperating temperature: -4 to 113 F (-20 to 45 C)
* Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
* Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
You have to obey them all, all the time. The sensor is simply just another component that might fail if you exceed these parameters. And it sounds like pretty convincing proof that you were in condensation conditions if the sensor fails by turning red.
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You left out one other environmental requirement [cornell.edu] that must be obeyed.
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Re:Uhhhhh... Condensation? (Score:4, Interesting)
So, does Apple just automatically void Canadian warranties or do they actually expect no one here to use an iPhone outside from October through March?
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There is nothing about condensation in the warranty. Did you follow the URL?
It talks about Spills and Submersion.
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You have to take care of electronic items and not expose them to conditions of condensation.
How do you suggest to do it in regions where it is naturally humid and cold in winter?
simple solution (Score:5, Funny)
Move to California.
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Move to California.
Yeah, but maybe you should wait until June. El Niño his doing his thing here this winter.
Only -20C?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Only -20C?? (Score:5, Interesting)
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True enough - when I get in my car in the summer (southwestern US) and it easily is above115F outside, it's probably a lovely 130F+ inside. A phone with an operating range that low is kinda pointless.
Seriously though - shouldn't whatever board certifies these devices at least require them to be certified for a reasonable temperature range?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You should be alright as long as you play some movies on the phone before putting it in your pocket, and play movies on the phone while it's in your pocket before going inside.
The problem is when the partial pressure of H2O exceeds the dew point. If you raise the temperature by moving into a new volume of air, then you get the ppH2O of the new volume of air, which is instantly cooled to near the temperature of the device, possibly crossing the dew point and causing condensation. If you raise the temperatu
Anti-consumerist horseshit (Score:2, Interesting)
While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.
Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitut
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It's Apple, it just works, except for all the times when it doesn't.
Ubuntu just works too, except for all the times when it doesn't. But those times, you can actually google the problem and fix it yourself. Apple, you're boned.
Re:Anti-consumerist horseshit (Score:5, Insightful)
>> While it's true that some portion of your customers are going to lie when they say there has been no water intrusion, including, at extra cost a device aimed at proving that your customer is lying on every device is unfair. Let alone close to the external extremedies of the device.
Well said. Good contribution to the thread.
>> Here's a prediction: First they will deny the problem, and try to cast doubt on the testing methodolgy, then they will acknowledge the problem but claim that it only occurs in a very limited set of circumstances and offer restitution but only for those who complain loudest.
Decent editorial insight. The kind of thing that sparks great conversation.
>> Then they'll make a minor change that doesn't actually fix the problem and claim it is fixed (oh and raise prices to cover this change). They'll stall at every step. This seems to be right out of the Apple customer service manual, and they're not the only ones (but they are some of the worst). No different to scratchable iPod minis, or cracked laptop cases.
Still decent, but you're starting to get worked up!
>> Fucking horseshit.
Yep. You're working yourself up, son!
>> But it's Apple, it just works, right? Come on fanbois, mod me into oblivion. I don't give a shit.
And then you just slide down hill. If you were to be modded down, I don't think it'd have been because of your opinions / insights above. It's the fact that you seem to be asking for it right here. Maybe you're proud of your dissent and want to think the comments are controversial? Sorry, no. They grabbed my attention and got me thinking. But now I've forgotten everything you've said because of your silly little outburst.
Just another way for them to scam people... (Score:5, Insightful)
The question is whether the LCI's can be triggered by exposure to condensation, moisture, etc., which won't actually harm the device. Clearly those LCI's are more sensitive than the device they're attached to to water damage. If the manufacturer refuses to honor a warranty because of a LCI positive reading, but the damage to the device wasn't in fact caused by water, then you ought to be able to sue them for breach of contract.
I had a cell phone battery fail (because of a defect), but the manufacturer wouldn't replace it because the LCI was tripped on the phone. The failure mode wasn't one that would have been caused by water damage.
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As someone who repairs electronic devices often debugging the device using a can of freeze spray I can confidently say that sensitive electronics will happily keep running with not just condensing mist forming on the surface, but out right water droplets, providing these don't combine and start running down the device.
Water on electronics isn't an issue till it connects across adjacent electrical traces. Even then water that is caused by condensation is very pure and has an incredibly high resistance so eve
The Question is... (Score:2)
Is this unique to the iphone or will some/most/all cell phones have their LCI tripped if treated in this way?
yea, hardly reliable (Score:4, Interesting)
So, Apple's LCI can trip unexpectedly...
A few years back, I dropped my Motorola RAZR V3 into a hot tub. It was submerged about 3-5 seconds before I got it back out.
The phone was dead, as expected - but the LCI did not "go off."
Re:yea, hardly reliable (Score:4, Informative)
Depending on your source, and whether or not the water is highly chlorinated, it can be pretty non-conductive. A couple of examples of this:
The town I used to live in got its water from a reservoir. They lightly chlorinated it, and then pumped it around town. I had a few accidents involving beer/soda and electronics, but in all cases, immediately unplugging the power/battery, disassembling, rinsing well with tap water, and letting dry for a couple days, the electronics worked fine. I had a keyboard with soda inside the membrane, and 8 years later it still works.
I taught high school science for 5 years, and we had a fairly simple conductivity tester - a lightbulb with the circuit broken. The setup had a goose-neck, with two exposed probes. You plugged it into a standard 120V outlet, and when the two probes, about 1/2" apart, were dunked in a conducting solution, the light bulb lit up. Standard tap water in that town did NOT light it up. Add 0.1g of salt to 100ml of water, and it light up just fine.
It's true that pure water won't hurt electronics. And condensed water is likely to be damn pure. Yes, it disassociates into ions. But the concentration is so small, and the distance between the ions so large, that it's essentially non-conducting.
It's sad you got modded up for not knowing what you're talking about.
I guarantee the sensor works 100% (Score:2, Insightful)
The purpose of the sensor is not to detect water. The purpose of the sensor is to give Apple and the insurance company a technical strawman to point to as to why you're not gonna get the warranty replacement you've morally and legally got coming.
"We're not honoring the warranty because the machine says you've been bad," sounds sbetter than "We don't wanna honor your warranty 'cause that would cost us money to live up to our obligations."
It's the same function polygraphs, e-meters and other "lie detectors" s
Re:I guarantee the sensor works 100% (Score:5, Informative)
I went into an Apple store and got my original iPhone replaced 10 months after buying it because I dropped it two stories onto concrete. It still worked, but it wouldn't take a charge and the main button was constantly pressed. I admitted to the damage vector (it was a bit hard not too -- major scratches and dings on the aluminum). They tested my phone, verified that it wouldn't take a charge, wiped my current phone, swapped the SIM into a new phone, activated it, and sent me on my way.
Those eeeevil bastards.
Submersion sensor too small. (Score:2, Interesting)
This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor. Which is a problem in a small device.
To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation, you need contacts some distance apart and some distance from a surface. The distances needs to be bigger than a water droplet. The size of water droplets is limited by surface tension. About 0.3 inch is probably big enough. In a tiny device, getting an air space that big is tough.
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> This just means they need more separation between the electrodes of their submersion sensor. Which is a problem in a small device.
The sensor is a chemical one. It's a patch of off-white printing that turns red when wetted.
> To sense water reliably, while ignoring condensation
Why? Condensation IS water. Water affects electronicsin the real world. Water is generally bad for electronics in the real world. Very very tiny electronics (like you referred to indirectly above) are affected even more. The tou
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There are no electrical connections on a liquid sensor - it is just a pad that changes color when it is exposed to water - or even high humidity. The purposes of this is to detect that a phone has been exposed to water, which will really screw it up. Thus, phones that have color-changed liquid sensors are not eligible for warranty replacement.
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Exclamation Points!!! (Score:2)
In other words, even moving in and out during regular winter time will make you iPhone LCI turn red!
Yes, Apple is doing something that lots of companies do! But you'll never hear reports about those other companies doing it, because they aren't Apple!!
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Yes, Apple is doing something that lots of companies do! But the public will find a way to think this is ok because it's Apple
But there is no protest when other companies do it, so what's the difference? Seems like there are more people trying to come up with reasons why it is not OK because it is Apple.
Apple's cult following allows it to screw over their customers again and again without anyone thinking twice
And yet other companies also screw over customers, and you rarely see articles about it.
Technicalities of specs, vs reality (Score:2)
1)Apple sells this phone in northerly climates (Canada for one)
2)Apple specs that it can be (when turned off) in environments down to -20 Celsius
3)I don't think anyone will argue with me that the nominal purpose of a cell phone, is as a communication device that a person CAN CARRY AROUND WITH THEM.
Combining these 3 facts, I think a reasonable person would conclude that they can take the phone in and out of the house with them when it is warmer than -20 C outside.
Thus, It seems reasonable that the warranty s
Uninformed at best (Score:2, Insightful)
The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.
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But that condensation occurs under normal use, so the device should be designed with it in mind.
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The liquid sensor is right to go off, as it should since many electronic gadgets/laptops were destroyed this way.
Either Apple needs to properly gasket the thing / seal the affected components, or be very up front that their products cannot be used in these very common weather conditions.
To expect a phone to fail because it's used in the winter is beyond any reasonable expectations.
Why not make it waterproof? (Score:2)
Really what is the problem?
Your typical keyboard is quite waterproof. I've spilled coffee on mine several times. Into the dishwasher it goes. I let it dry for about a week and then it's just fine. (Yes I have a backup keyboard). I have done this several times now and the keyboard still works fine.
Acidental Damage Protection (Score:2)
I hate to say it, because it's also a scam, but this won't matter if you buy an ADP plan that includes spills/immersion (SquareTrade sells them for all kinds of phones).
It doesn't matter who you buy it from though, if they know all you have to do to force them to fix it is to pay a $50 deductible, they are less likely to claim mishandling.
It's not fair, but they know if you don't have that insurance, you have no choice but to buy a new phone.
What really happens... (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:Read the next line in the env. specs, people. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Read the next line in the env. specs, people. (Score:5, Insightful)
The environment the phone was in was noncondensing. The environment IN the phone was condensing but how is the consumer to control that?
Consumer devices need to be built to withstand the normal environments they will be used in. Surprise, people sometimes come into a warm building from the cold outside.
If Apple gave half a crap about their users, they'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on.
Re: (Score:2)
If Apple gave half a crap about their users, they'd spring for the penny it would cost to shoot the insides with a bit of waterproofing spray rather than warranty void excuses before welding the back on.
The problem isn't that the phone will break from these it is the fact that it will trip the sensors. The problem is, these indicator things are terrible indicators of a problem. While I can see the point in reducing claims from someone who went swimming with their iPhone, someone who got their iPhone slightly damp months ago and comes in with a different problem still can't use their warranty.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What are the sensors made of? (Score:5, Funny)
I believe the sensor is 3M Material 5559, which is a kind of humidity indicator [wikipedia.org]. Wiki says, that these are usually made from Cobalt(II) chloride, which in pure form turns from blue to red powder by absorbing water.
Either that or the phone is pregnant.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There is one already. It's known as fraud.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There was no damage involved, simply a triggering of a LCI. The problem isn't that the devices can be damaged by condensation, it's that the LCI's are more sensitive than the device itself to condensation!
Re: (Score:2)
... and do they make any claims against it either? I don't have one laying about to check, but another poster said it states the humidity must be non-condensing.
Re: (Score:2)
It seems like you could put it in an airtight plastic bag when going from cold to warm. When the bag is dry, it's safe to remove.
Of course, there's the problem of air in the bag. You need to make sure the bag is in close contact with the device or else carry dessicant around with you. Of course, this is an Apple device. Somebody ought to make a stylish little box that encloses it perfectly.
There are already shrink-on plastic shields to protect the screens and various other enhancements that surround you