Gaming the App Store 217
space_in_your_face writes "Want to boost the popularity of your latest iPhone app? Ask Reverb Communications! 'When it comes to winning in the App Store, this PR firm has discovered a dynamite strategy: throw ethics out the window. Reverb Communications, a PR firm that represents dozens of game publishers and developers, has managed to find astounding success on Apple's App Store for its clients. Among its various tactics? It hires a team of interns to trawl iTunes and other community forums posing as real users, and has them write positive reviews for their client's applications. ... Reverb claims that their clients have sold over $2 billion of product under their watch.'"
Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
When in doubt, lie, cheat, and steal. Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
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What's even funnier is that our cynicism ensures they will keep on doing business as usual. /metacynicism
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Because you can only review an app on the iTunes store that you have purchased -- this is enforced by the program and I don't know a way around it. So it would cost more per review than per app -- expensive advertising, I would think.
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Not really. 10 thousand sales of an app at 2 dollars vs paying maybe a grand for the people to give you those good reviews where you might have made 500 bucks?
Really, the people writing the reviews get better guaranteed cash, but you know, people will gamble for anything.
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I have a quality product and it was recognised as such by Apple who selected the app as the featured app in the App Store. This did more for my sales than spamming online forums etc.
Lesson: quality wins in the end.
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Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
This appears to partially depend on (1) where you want to go and (2) what industry you are traveling in.
Sometimes, strong ethics and morals (not morales :) ) are necessary to get anywhere.
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Sure, nobody respects the obvious ambulance-chasing lawyer, but smarter lawyers can be plenty unethical and still look good to most everyone.
Also: the White House, circa 2001-2008. 'Nuff said.
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Ah, yes. There was corruption in government in the years 2001 to 2008. 1992 to 2000 and 2008-???, on the other hand, are free from corruption...
Anyway, politics aside; yes, the ability to fake ethics and morals works pretty well, I suppose. But morals and ethics definitely help when dealing with services. For example, if I run a home-computer-repair thing, I am guessing most of my customers are going to think much more highly of me if I am moral and ethical when I deal with them, try to get them good ra
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sincerity is the secret to success.
Once you can fake that, you've got it made!
Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Funny)
When in doubt, lie, cheat, and steal. Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
Yes, this is true. At Petroleum Conglomerate (R), a friendly family owned company I know of, they have the strongest ethics. I think they are a real model that other companies should follow, with a strong core of values and a clear mission to improve the world through intelligent energy solutions. This is in stark contrast to the public image some would have you believe. In fact, they have teamed with Tobacco International (R) and with Weapons Systems Technological (R) to donate a percent of their proceeds to charities. I even heard that they are all having a 20% off sale until the end of the month. I know I'm going to order some oil, smokes, and a STA missile right now! You should too! (Offer may not be valid in all areas.)
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You know, it's sad, but companies like that used to exist. Consider Kodak building Rochester, NY from basically nothing into the thriving city it is today. I swear, half the buildings in that city are named after them. They did a world of good.
No more, though. Now business schools teach sociopathy.
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No more, though. Now business schools teach sociopathy.
Sociopathy 101... I, like it... It has this really nice ring to it.... I think I'll just go ahead and take it!
Muhahahaha
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I know I'm going to order some oil, smokes, and a STA missile right now! You should too!
I am so fucking down with that plan.
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Especially when it comes to advertising to isheep. These will eat up anything that will give them better social status, even if its just for a day and they can feel better then their other isheep cohorts.
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What did their other iSheep cohorts do? I'm waiting. What exactly did their other iSheep cohorts do after the first set were able to feel better? Please finish the fucking sentence, it's very frustrating when you leave us hanging like this.
Perhaps the iSheep know the difference between then and than. You see everybody has a fault and knowing that you know also makes you feel better than your other language abusing cohorts.
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Settle down grammar nazi and learn to use a goddamn comma.
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Jesus, now I can't use a goddamn comma.
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Junk like this would be exposed in forum or low voted on popular download site/s.
Why, because the Apple community was so small and the number of developers tiny. Every app got used and people had time to reflect and share their thoughts.
On the phone side Apple is just Microsoft with better spin. The phone herd is ready for "bovine university". From the from the high-density forums to the one click profit profit floor.
It's not really a
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Re:Astroturf... (Score:5, Funny)
There is a movement in the PR Industry to end astroturfing. [thenewpr.com]
Man, the NewPR is great, iddn't it? It isn't utter crap like those other PR sites.
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I don't know who this Mr. Ethics is, but Mr. Morales [wikipedia.org] is moving up in the world....
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When in doubt, lie, cheat, and steal. Strong ethics and morales will get you nowhere in this world kids.
This world is focused on capitalism. Lying, cheating, and stealing are definitely a byproduct of putting money over community and people as a whole.
Yes.. they work. I see it every day when I turn on cspan.
Yeah (Score:2, Interesting)
This will last.
We all know how Apple likes to have others in any sort of control over the App Store.
Not news (Score:5, Insightful)
It could be illegal. (Score:5, Interesting)
"Among its various tactics? It hires a team of interns to trawl iTunes and other community forums posing as real users, and has them write positive reviews for their client's applications."
Just so we're all clear, this is already illegal. If they are engaging in this kind of activity, then it's just a law enforcement issue.
Re:It could be illegal. (Score:4, Informative)
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so if lying is a 'stealth marketing technique' what is stealing? a 'stealth purchasing technique'? I mean, cmon, let's call a spade a spade here...
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Just so we're all clear, this is already illegal. If they are engaging in this kind of activity, then it's just a law enforcement issue.
Is it? Compensated endorsement doesn't always come with disclaimers. I don't know any of the law on the subject, but it seems like there is a pretty long history of "experts" offering compensated opinions without any particular disclaimers.
Re:Not news (Score:5, Funny)
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Of course not, everyone knows you need the concentrated meme power of a Three Keyboard Cat Moon [threadless.com] shirt if you want to pull in the hotties.
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Like, OMG! I gotta get one of those... thank you soo much for sharing your buying experience with us... We need help getting rid of all this dirty money.... I here it all has cocaine on it! I mean ICK!
Re:Not news (Score:5, Interesting)
I never got why amazon didn't limit reviews to people who had bought the book, (while it doesn't stop this it makes it a more costly business, I find it particularly surprising that a company with as much control over their system as apple don't limit reviews to app purchasers.
Because it's a bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Meanwhile, a bunch of people who have bought your book, and would like to write about how much it stinks, can't. Because they bought it at a normal book store.
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What if you need to have a purchase history of different books from different publishers? Yeah, it's also limiting the pool of reviewers but it'd also raise the cost of astroturfing.
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Hmmm... sounds like something that happened with L. Ron Hubbard's books and his followers.
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I never got why amazon didn't limit reviews to people who had bought the book, (while it doesn't stop this it makes it a more costly business, I find it particularly surprising that a company with as much control over their system as apple don't limit reviews to app purchasers.
1) If someone is abusing reviews and ratings to harm a book's Amazon reputation, the author affected will likely contest and complain.
2) If someone is abusing reviews and ratings to make a book look better on Amazon, more people will buy it, and Amazon has more sales.
With the App store, 2 billion in sales is a lot of money for Apple. Why would they worry about such things unless there's a PR backlash?
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Outside of buying it from them, how are they going to know you own the book? rip off the cover and mail it to them for authentication?
And if they limit the reviews to just people who bought it from Amazon, how many reviews do you think there really will be?
Re:Not news (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently they started doing that in Feb 2009 [macrumors.com].
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Amazon shouldn't restrict reviews. There's simply too many other places to buy books, music, appliances, etc etc and the reviews of those purchasers have the potential to be every bit as valid and useful as people who bought it directly from Amazon. Assuming that "didn't purchase from Amazon" means "didn't actually buy the product" is naive in that case.
Apple, on the other hand, I agree with you on. So long as their system is so locked down that you basically can't buy things anywhere but through them,
And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:3, Insightful)
seriously, what the hell?
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seriously, what the hell?
Do you suggest we pretend the evil people don't exist? I imagine the story is intended to out them as the scum they are, not give them publicity.
-Taylor
Re:And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you suggest we pretend the evil people don't exist? I imagine the story is intended to out them as the scum they are, not give them publicity.
Trust me they are thrilled to get "bad" press like this. Anyone who hires spammers, SEO outfits, direct mail companies, shills and the like knows full well that these practices are objectionable to most of society. Picking one firm and giving them front page coverage, saying they're the worst of the worst, is just going to send hordes of unscrupulous paying clients to their doors.
Re:And we're giving them /. publicity why? (Score:5, Funny)
wow..what a concept (Score:2)
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When you can prove it, then it becomes news. Just as now, we can prove that you are a moron, and if you were of the slightest bit of importance, we would expect to see you as a story on the front page soon.
Rockband? (Score:3, Funny)
Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I concur. A lot of the 0 ratings are just as worthless though, particularly for free software. I usually read what the person has to say, though. A lot of the time the people who rate programs low are doing so because they're too cheap to buy the full version. They whine about the limited utility of the lite version.
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3's usually have a good mix of pros and cons, though I find some of the 4 star Newegg people are very articulate about why they rated 4 i
1-star (Score:2, Funny)
Computer did not feed my kitten.
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I like to read the negative to moderate reviews because they seem to be more honest about potential problems. What do you guys think/do?
I do that as well. I'd rather hear what people don't like about a product I'm interested in than what I already know I'll like about it.
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:4, Funny)
But suppose an app were absolutely perfect. Then what happens?
To quote xkcd, "Somewhere out there is a company that has actually figured out how to enlarge penises, and it's helpless to reach potential customers."
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:5, Interesting)
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It's not so simple. The negative views could be given by people trolling for competitors.
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I like to read some of the realistic sounding reviews at every level. The crazies go both ways, and as long as you can pick them out you can get a pretty good overview of the product.
As nerdy as it is, I think the real reviews of a product tend to make a normal distribution (bell curve).
Re:Who actually cares about the "good" ratings? (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally, I find the 0 - 3 star ratings more telling about an app than the 4 or 5 star (fanboy) ratings. In general, when I want to find out about a product, I like to read the negative to moderate reviews because they seem to be more honest about potential problems. What do you guys think/do?
Some reviews are of a sort that you know the reviewer is simply happy to now own a program that does something in particular. They'll say something like: I LOVE Poker Player 2010 because I am now REALLY PLAYING POKER!!! These are generally useless. They offer no detail except the enthusiasm of the user for being able to actually use the program to get basic functionality out of it.
There's other reviews that you know are AstroTurf. You can usually tell that they are "on-message" and scripted. The features that they "love" are the same features that are bullet points in the literature released by the developer. Sometimes they even put in some "warnings" but these "caveats" aren't really caveats, but rather rephrases of the disclaimers that you could have read in the Terms of Service or EULA anyway. For example:
"This app is excellent in all possible ways, but in the interest of fairness I need to point out that, operating a vehicle while texting is bad!"
On the other hand, there are idiots out there who will cut down a perfectly functional app simply because they had expectations for the app that were completely out of scale with what was even advertised, or even supported. This often happens also when the users demand features that there was really no reason to expect there to be in the first place.
To get to the heart of the matter. Some people also feel the need to say something negative because they feel that they have to be "balanced". This sort of "balance" is not what you are looking for. You are looking for an approximation of the truth of people's experiences, not the image they are trying to present of their own fairness and sophistication.
Do NOT ignore the 5 star ratings, just because of enthusiasm and turfers out there. A good app is going to get 5 star ratings and it will deserve it. The idea that a middling rating implies a better quality review means you' are generally too lazy to read all the reviews and think about them. If you apply the right criteria and your own skepticism to all reviews, you will get the right balance out of them, no matter what the rating. Ignoring good reviews in favor of middling ones means that you are letting the star level rate your expectations just as much as if you blindly accepted the 5-star ratings.
In general, discard the astroturfers and perpetually angry fringe, and look for reviews that cover the functionality that you find important to you. Look for reviews that tell you what they did to get a certain result. I know of more than one cheap-ass app I have used in my life where if I used some obscure feature, it would crash, but as long as I never cared about that feature, the app worked beautifully for all I needed it to do. That app would certainly not be a 5-star, but it certainly might rate a 4-star from me if the rest of it was truly useful. More importantly, it was worth getting as long as I was aware of its Achilles' Heel.
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Personally, I love the one start ratings, that claim how great this app is. Those are the people who i trust.
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Personally, I find the 0 - 3 star ratings more telling about an app than the 4 or 5 star (fanboy) ratings. In general, when I want to find out about a product, I like to read the negative to moderate reviews because they seem to be more honest about potential problems. What do you guys think/do?
I think a lot of reviews on the 5 star and 1 star polar ends are given after a first impression. The product arrives, it works and is a new toy, the person is excited, 5 stars. Conversely, person can't get it to work immediately with their setup, 1 star. Neither are very useful, which is why I always wait to review a product until I've had it for a while (and unfortunately end up forgetting to do so most of the time).
If I'm looking at reviews, chances are I'm looking for a product with specific things in mi
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The magic eight-ball says... (Score:2)
BBB has no authority (Score:2)
I don't know what the FTC would do in this case.
Modern snake oil salesman (Score:3, Insightful)
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Assuming, though, a slightly more competent brand of shill, there isn't any magical "Critical thinking" that will allow you to distinguish between the real and the fake with any accuracy. You could fall back on the approach of just ignoring all feedback, and describing your nescience as "critical thinking"; but tha
Amatuers (Score:3)
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It's not SEO, it's ASO... (Score:2)
Comments/ ratings almost useless (Score:2)
I put very little weight on either comments or ratings on the app store. I outright ignore 1 and 5 star ratings; the number of times I've seen comments raving about the app being the best in its category or whatever yet having a 1-star rating is ridiculous. Seriously how do you screw up understanding how a 5-star rating system works?
Then we have mmorpg trolls leaving tons of 5 star comments with their character codes for alliances and such; waste of space and tells me Jack about the app itself.
If a review i
Far better than my idea. (Score:3, Funny)
At least they're not apping the game store. I'm still paying off my legal bills.
Obviously... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I suppose (Score:2)
Shrill Shills Thrills and Spills (Score:2, Interesting)
Internally it's called "viral marketing", (Score:5, Interesting)
and it's an old hat with pretty much every professional marketing company. Either employees are asked to post things, or they hire some external people, like in this example.
I have seen it, I have even been asked to do it*, and from what I know, it's pretty much an expected standard.
Music, games, books, websites, other products, you name it...
The only difference is, that real professional companies have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about it, and the only person asking is your direct boss, in private.
___
* and lied about actually doing it, like most people in the company at that time, because half the staff just got fired because of management incompetence
How about negative reviews? (Score:4, Informative)
One thing I've noticed at the App Store is that a lot of perfectly fine apps get a lot of 1 star reviews for ridiculous reasons. For instance, a review might state that the app does what it claimed to do flawlessly, that it is useful, and the best app in the category--but the reviewer also wish it had feature X (which no other app has), and the reviewer then gives it just 1 star, apparently for this "missing" feature.
This doesn't appear to be an isolated problem. Nearly every very good app I've downloaded has had a lot of these kind of negative reviews.
I wonder if anyone is purposefully trying to game the store by posting negative reviews on competitors, too?
Re:How about negative reviews? (Score:5, Interesting)
He'd reviewed 6 other competing apps, all of the reviews suggested that customers should buy this other app instead.
There's not much you can do about it, just have to hope that customers are savvy enough to see through these marketing tricks.
TFA updated with response from Reverb (Score:2, Informative)
Reverb would like to clarify a few items regarding the MobileCrunch story about our agency that ran this weekend. The article âoeCheating the App Storeâ is unfortunately full of emotion, logical holes and for the most part untrue. Here are the facts:
1. The writer forgot that Reverb Communications is not just a public relations agency, but is also a sales and marketing agency. Reverbâ(TM)s marketing department has interns that do social viral marketing.
2. Our interns do not post reviews on i
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We do not have hundreds of accounts to âoetrawlâ through iTunes â" itâ(TM)s simply untrue. We have 10 staff members who choose to post on the games when and if they have played the game. We have to buy and play the game in order to have an opinion.
(We do not, however, deny crowdsourcing people with their own iTunes accounts and giving them the software free in exchange for a positive review. We just won't mention any such obvious possibilities.)
This same writer contacted several of our app store developers wanting negative comments from them regarding Reverb. They all gave positive feedback, but the writer left this aspect out of the story.
...because they're customers of the company, and of course they're happy, if it works, which doesn't cast any light on the scrupulousness or lack thereof of the whole operation.
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3. 1 person=1 iTunes account=1 credit card. We do not have hundreds of accounts to âoetrawlâ through iTunes â" itâ(TM)s simply untrue. We have 10 staff members who choose to post on the games when and if they have played the game. We have to buy and play the game in order to have an opinion.
Yes, but this does not apply to free games. Anyone who knows jack about the AppStore knows that it is the free ("lite") versions of the games that really drive traffic and game popularity. That is w
The "Trick" that annoys me... (Score:2)
Aside from all the "MMORPG" games that turn out to be nothing but graphic skins over the exact same stupid mafia game; the most annoying thing is the way people will take the free crApps that they are trying to give away and bump the price up to $0.99 and back down to free to get it to hit peoples "Newly free" filters.
There are decent apps that drop their price for a while, but seeing an app marked "Free" (which always means some weak broken version not worth downloading) as "On sale" is annoying.
I'm pretty
Liars (Score:4, Insightful)
I flatly don't believe them.
Why would anybody hire them? Why would you believe and have dealings with a company whose product is explicitly stated as lying and deception?
I knew it... (Score:2)
*checks*
If they are really naughty they would have those interns give competing apps a low rating, this is not something they would admit.
And why... (Score:3, Insightful)
For every thousand people who read this and say "that's just wrong", there's one or two who says "Hmmm, interesting." And for every few dozen of those, there's an app developer that's saying "Maybe I should find out how much this costs."
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If you have a game that's good and garners decent amounts of attention then you'll make millions on the iPhone. Thus the PR firm - to make sure your product gets noticed.
Full disclosure I work for a game studio that's doing iPhone games. No we don't use a PR firm as our products are go
Yeah, but seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)
So what is the value of a dollar? A beer? Nope. A newspaper? Not the New York Times. A pack of gum? Not the fancy "winter-blast" chiclet kind. A comic book? Not in years. Paperback book? Sure, if you can get seven more dollars. Let's see... that leaves us with a can of Coke (but not a bottle), or maybe a candy bar (but not the king sized kind).
But let's raise the stakes a little bit... what's the value of a dollar when you're stuck in an airport? Anyone? Anyone..? So if you can kill a four hour layover in an airport by spending $1 to download a "trivial airport game," I'd say that sounds like a marker for market success, not failure.
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Right now, its getting me 28.38 THB or 0.58 EUR.
But in all seriousness the value of a dollar is relative. What you view to be worth a dollar may not be worth a dollar to another. Some people have skewed perceptions on what a dollar is worth and make some really bad purchasing decisions. This is normally indicated by the people who continually lack dollars.
Two dollar
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Airports are bad (and loaded) examples as they are captive audiences, the usual rules around supply and demand don't apply so products and services are often priced at many times their value
True. But they are also places people go and spend a lot of time hanging around in, and often they have little choice as to how much time they spend there. When they do go, however, they often tend to have their iPhones with them.
but I suspect you chose the airport for this particular reason.
I chose the airport because the OP described iPhone apps as "trivial airport games."
Telling me what a dollar will not buy is indicative of poor money management and using this as an excuse to justify a purchase is even worse.
Why? Telling me what to spend my dollar on is indicative of self-righteous arrogance, mainly. If it makes me happy to spend a dollar, what is so wrong about that?
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"Because it is there" is not a good justification. This is called impulse buying and is another huge indicator in having poor money management skills.
Your reasoning is totally bizarre. Buying iPhone games is impulse buying? Did you ever consider that people might buy iPhones instead of other phones because they end up waiting in places like the airport, and they think it's a good deal that they can spend a buck on a game to have some fun with?
Besides, I was not arguing "because it's there." One way to evaluate the true cost of any purchase is to examine the opportunity cost -- that is, the value of the other option, the one you had to give up in order to
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Lots of beers sell for a buck. But not at the bar.
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Man. Not in San Francisco, believe me. Even when beers come with a big "99 cents out the door" sticker on them, the liquor stores typically pull them off.
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On the other hand, if I find a game for the blackberry that I like, and that provides me hours of mindless escape -- surely that has value to me. And if I can reward the developer of this game with something as insignificant as a dollar in order to continue playing the game, how is that in any way a bad thing?
I'd further argue that this does not cause
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Sigh. The question is, how is a trivial airport game worth $1.2 million.
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The magic of the Information Age however allows removal of barriers to entry and nearly free ($0.30 per copy) publishing and distribution. This allows the $1 game to be bought by anyone who thinks it's worth $1 to them.