Environmental DVD Wrecks Apple Drives 459
FST777 writes "The British Mail on Sunday published its latest DVD giveaway on the EcoDisc, a thin and bendable DVD format that is supposed to be more environmentally-friendly than regular DVDs. Despite the clear warning against using them in Apple slot drives, some Mac users decided to give it a go. The result? A brisk trade for repair shops in the UK. 'The EcoDisc's manufacturer, ODS, insists the disc won't break drives. "We've produced over ten million of these discs — we've had less than a dozen phone calls," says managing director, Ray Wheeler. "There are ways to get the discs out." Wheeler says the problem stems from Apple's slot-loading drives. "It uses an ejection system that doesn't get approval from the DVD Forum." He claims the EcoDisc should work in other types of slot-loading drive, although admits that it hasn't been tested in the PlayStation 3.'"
Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Insightful)
Who takes an unknown disc that they find in a newspaper and sticks it into their machine without so much as reading the cover? It says right on the thing, don't use it in a Mac. Then they want to complain?
Bunch of Flakes.
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Insightful)
The companies that were producing these disks just dropped the logo, going under the assumtion that if is was the same size as a CD and had a shiny bottom, that people would put it in thier CD players, and people did just that.
To most people a CD is defined as "something that is about 5 inches across and has a shiny bottom. If I put it in my computer something happens."
They didn't just drop the logo... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:4, Informative)
She doesn't know it was a rootkit, but she knows there was something about music cds you buy from the store putting a virus on your computer, because it was in newspapers and on television around the world.
Give it a rest with the attempted justifications. The disc was specifically labeled. It didn't even say "Not suitable for PCs", which might confuse Mac users who think their machines are made of Steve Job's semen imbued with life by God above. It specifically said "Don't put this in your fucking Mac" and it had a picture because Mac users can't understand things that don't have pictures.
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Informative)
Compact Discs have to adhere to a standard that allows them to be read with standard equipment, otherwise, I could take this record and trim it with scissors and call it a compact disc. DRM is not a part of the compact disc standard, therefore, if some circular disc of metal and plastic has DRM, it's not a compact disc, and won't work like a compact disc, and isn't permitted to be sold as a compact disc.
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The logo that was removed was the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" (CD-DA) logo.
Redbook (used for Audio CDs) is a standard.
A CD is a round flat disc with a reflective layer and some pits pressed into it that can be read with a laser with a wavelength of about 780 nanometers. CD defines the physical nature of the disc.
DRM is not part of the CD standard because it is not part of the physical aspect of the CD.
(Weak sectors are a bit of a grey area. The CD is physically a CD, wi
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Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Funny)
You're right. Someone saw something that looked like a DVD, and treated it like a DVD. The fools. (The warning on the disc was, apparently, the entirely clear and obvious phrase "NO APPLE SLOT IN DRIVE" in the bottom corner of the label. You did look at the article, right?)
Tomorrow I'm going to leave a platter of poisoned brownies in the lunchroom at work, along with a big sign saying "BROWNIES". It's all on the up-and-up as long as I leave a "NO MOUTH FOOD" label in the bottom corner of the sign, right? I can't wait to see how many suckers I can catch. Ha ha!
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The warning on the disc was, apparently, the entirely clear and obvious phrase "NO APPLE SLOT IN DRIVE" in the bottom corner of the label...Tomorrow I'm going to leave a platter of poisoned brownies in the lunchroom at work, along with a big sign saying "BROWNIES". It's all on the up-and-up as long as I leave a "NO MOUTH FOOD" label in the bottom corner of the sign, right?
"NO MOUTH FOOD" is too clear. "NO APPLE SLOT IN DRIVE" would be more analogous to "NO MOUTH IN HEAD".
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I don't imagine anyone's going to trash their Mac for a few EcoDiscs, but still, it's a bit unsettling that the drives don't properly conform to standard.
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Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll bet his post has a -1 by the end of the day.
Re:something stinks. (Score:4, Insightful)
wow, you criticized apple fanboys with a side swipe at apple. And didn't click the no Karma, or Anonymous check box?
b.) This is basically a throw-away account. I've been lurking on Slashdot for far longer than my ID implies. One day there was a story about another company complaining about iTune's monopoly. Everybody poo-poo'd that complaint, so I mentioned that he had a point and why I thought so. (As opposed to saying something like "APPLE SUX!! EVERYBODY WHO LIKES APPLE SUCKS!") My comment was initially modded insightful. Unfortunately, that invited criticism. Instead of taking my point head-on, lots of people took jabs at my post. One guy shot up to a +5 for cooking up a hypothetical (and, if anybody spent more than 3 seconds pondering it, non-sensical) scenario about my motivations for making the comment. Silly stuff, but not really out of the norm for Slashdot. The silliness shot to an extreme when all of my recent posts started dropping. Before long, some 30 negative moderations had been made, actually causing me to get banned from Slashdot for a couple of months. (It was specific to an IP range, I could still post from home.) A couple of months later, I started posting again, and those new posts were automatically modded as troll.
So I created this account to avoid that BS attached by my old nick. Frankly, if this one gets toasted by ridiculously organized Apple fanboys too, I really don't care. I can create a new account. BFD. I'm not giving Steve Jobs verbal fellatio just to be cool with a group of people. I'm also not giving Apple any more credit than I'd give Microsoft. They're motivated by profit just like BillyG, so I'm not defending them just because I like my iPod.
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Luckily for Apple Users there is a simple fix (Score:4, Insightful)
Floppy DVDs don't go in slot-loading drives. Apple is the highest-profile user of such drives. It's just doublespeak to claim that it's "Apple" slot-load drives that are affected. A quick search shows only 230 results for '"dvd forum" +ejection system'--the top results, of course, referring to this article, and the others referring to the emergency eject function (i.e. the paperclip hole). That is the "DVD Forum approved ejection system" and it is fundamentally incompatible with a slot drive--there's no tray to pull out manually even if it had such a trigger. Further, Matsushita is one of the four largest members of the DVD Forum.
Apple neither designed, engineered, nor manufactured the device, so while it's true Apple didn't build a device to comply with "standards", it's a tautology. There is no possible way for the statement to be UNtrue. The only way to have a "DVD Forum approved" ejection system is to have a tray drive.
Way to take the bait hook, line, and sinker, though.
Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, the Apple slot-loading drive was a response to durability problems experienced by students when they used Mac laptops. Apparently kids were liable to snap the DVD tray right off the laptop. (Not good.) So it wasn't a stupid idea. More like an attempt to balance out a variety of needs.
That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive.
Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (Score:4, Insightful)
That being said, you could always get an iMac. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of a floppy drive.
Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.
Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm fairly certain your parent post was pointing out how people bitched up a fit about the iMac not having that piece of junk back in 1998, not when the major PC builders finally dropped them from their standard configuration within the last 2 years.
Of course, back then the complaint was perfectly valid because Apple didn't replace it with anything.
Had the iMac shipped with a CDRW drive, they would have actually been "innovative", rather than "cheap".
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Debatable. Remember, the thing sold like hotcakes, no matter how much we thought it was crap.
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Maybe because things might have changed a bit in 8+ years? Many people were still using floppy disks in 1998 (and as pointed out, there was no alternative supplied for writing media). A few years later, floppy disks are dead and every computer has CDRW or even D
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Well, it's a problem for high schools too, but that's because it's school computers and HS students tend to be dicks when it comes to other people's property. That issue applies to both slot- and tray-loading drives, though.
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People who want to vandalise equipment will always find a way to do so.
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Funny thing is that the drive still works, but only reading the outside half of a disc. So CD isos get burned to DVDs and I can read all of 'em, install from 'em, etc. but not CD images on a CD or a DVD image on a DVD - only get about half way thru it...
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"I've heard the opposite..." (Score:5, Funny)
And I've heard that what they stick in the slots is pieces of the trays they snap off from other machines that have (had?) tray loading drives.
-- Terry
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Very young children will insert things into any slot they can find (double entendres unintended there). when I used to work as an Apple tech, I would spend plenty of time removing coins, paper clips, random junk from floppy drives and CD drives and from the cases of any Mac with large enough air vents.
Friends with young children have told me about having to have video recorders serviced repeatedly from young children putting toast and other crap in the tape slot.
When doing laptop support at the secondary
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Slot loaders on the other hand don't appreciated library loaned disks, which have an extra layer of protective plastic along the top, where they'put the security strip in.
Optical drives in laptops (Score:3, Interesting)
That being said, you could always get a MacBook Air. Nothing says "high technology" like a complete lack of an optical drive. ;-)
Offtopic, but I know a lot of people like to beat up on Apple for the "no internal optical drive on the MacBook Air" thing. I have a Dell D420, which doesn't have a built-in optical drive (it's in the dock) and I can't say I ever use the optical drive until I need to upgrade my Linux distro. All my backups are done over my home network, or to USB storage. When's the last time you used your DVD/CDRW drive? And not having an internal optical drive saves a lot of weight and bulk in the laptop.
I'm not a Mac
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2. Less weight
3. Less space taken up by not having a motor
Re:Nelson points and says "Haha!" (Score:4, Informative)
I particularly love the way that you can add files to projects by drag-and-drop! Oh, wait, no you can't, you have to add them with an "Add file" dialog.
- Opens up the 'src' folder in the Finder
- Selects a file
- Drags it to the 'Sources' folder in the XCode project
- Sees import-folder-to-project sheet drop down
- Wonders what the fuss is about
But at least you can add a whole bunch at once! Oh, wait, no you can't, you can only add one at a time
- Does same as above, but selects multiple files
- Wonders what the fuss is all about
- Tries using the dialogue box, in case Apple had gone insane... Nope, multi-select works just fine...
But at least the dialog box remembers where the files were so you don't have to navigate your directory structure again and again for every single file! Oh, wait, no it doesn't, it always goes right back to the project directory
* This one I'll give you, but then I tend to keep my source files for a given project within the project folder anyway, so it works quite well for me...
the only way to change the build settings for your project is to right-click on the build target name and select the intuitively named "Get Info" option
- Wonders why the coward just doesn't double-click the project...
Thinks to himself: "Perhaps reading the manual might be a useful exercise for this coward". Here's a hint: If you're doing something that you think is a monumental waste of time, something the computer could do far better, and make your life far easier, you're probably missing something. Reading the fine manual before blowing off steam in public saves making an ass of yourself.
Simon
Serves them right (Score:2, Funny)
pot, meet kettle (Score:4, Insightful)
And these new discs do?
Re:pot, meet kettle (Score:5, Funny)
Rob
Re:pot, meet kettle (Score:5, Informative)
But it does state that "ODS has applied for 4 patents up to now" so it must be good(TM).
Problem Solved! (Score:5, Funny)
Idiot tax for jumpy Mail readers (Score:3, Informative)
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Rob
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Oh and let's not forget it's support for fascism in the 30s.
Who is out of specs again? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Who is out of specs again? (Score:5, Insightful)
No (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm not sure I understand. "Our product X is designed to work with and has been confirmed to work with everything approved by universally-accepted standards body Y." This is an absolute defense, is it not? Whether X has been approved by the standards body seems irrelevant to me -- non-complying product Z is out of spec, and must accept the slings and arrows of uncaring vendors as part of the bargain.
Let me ask you this: is the "X" in your hypothetical Apple's drive or the bendable CD? See the problem? When two "X" (non-complying products) interact, it doesn't always work. They can both claim "X" (we work with everything approved), but they are both really Z (out of spec).
That's the point of adhering to a standard: everything works because each half of the interface is complying with the same pre-arranged rules. One product can deviate from the spec, and maybe it's no big deal... but only so long as
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OTOH The Apple's drives are non-compilant for no good reason whatsoever.
Matsushita (Score:2)
environmental friendliness (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:environmental friendliness (Score:5, Insightful)
Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?
I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much?
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Plus, you can download it while doing other things on the computer.
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Your computer will need to be on to read from a DVD, and chances are these days it would be connected to the internet in any case. And spinning the DVD will consume a little extra power.
Also, how many of these discs will never be used (theres one stuck to every newspaper, not every reader will use the DVD
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Because the Internet doesn't use any electrical power?
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I agree that it's probably more efficient to download data instead of burning it on DVD and distributing it that way, but by how much?
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The Beta & The Omega (Score:4, Funny)
Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.
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Well, yeah, that's understandable seeing as it's still so hard to get a hold of a PS3.
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Never trusted slot loading (Score:2, Interesting)
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Just because it starts out without any thing that can scratch the disc doesn't mean that it will never be able to scratch a disc.
On a tray loading drive, the disc doesn't rotate in the tray, and nothing should touch the data surfaces of the disc, unless you are using a Xbox 360, and stuff gets misaligned.
Apple and "Standards Compliance" (Score:2, Funny)
Well, who are they to tell Apple and Sir Steve what to do?
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Doctor! Doctor! (Score:3, Insightful)
Not a CLEAR warning! (Score:5, Informative)
"no Apple slot in drive"
Re:Not a CLEAR warning! (Score:5, Funny)
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Hello, standards (Score:3, Insightful)
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And Again (Score:2)
So? (Score:2)
While I recognize the issue, I have never had a problem with a slit drive, and I have owned several devices with one for a long time.
Wow. Space-time contiuum and stuff! (Score:4, Funny)
What, you say it is Slashdot? Then how do you explain this article without someone (incorrectly) referring to "bricking" the Apple CD drive?
Dear American Mac-haters, I have a correction... (Score:2, Informative)
I see this story is tagged "Macs for morons", and various posts joking about destroying Mac owners' machines is not a bug, it's a feature, and so forth.
I must take issue with this stance. If we are to celebrate the fact that a certain demographic sector suffered inconvenience and damage to property, I must insist we aim the full force of our collective schadenfreude not at Mac users, but at Mail on Sunday readers ;-)
(Serious explanation: The Mail is one of the most nasty, deplorable shit-for-brained rags
Re:Dear American Mac-haters, I have a correction.. (Score:4, Funny)
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It is Britain's second biggest-selling daily newspaper after The Sun And it was the first to sell 1 million copies a day.
Well then...seems that this 'evil right wing, middle class' paper outsells your liberal stuff. So..to you, the wingnut, makes it evil.
Compare this to fox news. It clobbers all other cable news shows...
"Folks, I'm no fan of reality...Who is Britannica to tell me that George Washington owned slaves? If I want to say he didn't, that's my right! And now, thanks to Wikipedia, it's also a fact. We should apply these principles to all information! All we need to do is convince a majority of people that some factoid is true, for instance, that Africa has more elephants today than it did ten years ago. Now, I don't know if that's actually true. But if it was true, boy, that would be a real blow to the environme
This worked for me (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Now don't forget (Score:5, Funny)
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How do they handle hot soup?
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So you're saying that inserting objects never meant for the drive is bad?
How do they handle hot soup?
Maybe he's referring to actual CD's shaped like business cards and hearts [proactionmedia.com]?
Re:apple slot loader (Score:5, Funny)
Haven't you been reading? They don't work in them apples either...
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RTFA (Score:2)
Rob
Re:Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, you can always boot the machine into console and issue a direct "eject disk" command.
But then, of course, you'd say it was the user's fault for not knowing the disk was bad before inserting it.
This will be fun: Non-standard DVD player and an unusual DVD. Does the DVD adhere to appropriate standards, in which case, we can all gloat that the stylish and disposable Mac du jour falls victim to its own preciousness, or is this a matter of shared liability?
I wish I had mod points... (Score:2)
Hold down the mouse button on boot to eject (Score:3, Funny)
Amusingly, when I typed 'Hold' in the Subject field, Safari completed the sentence because I posted the same exact thing here a while back the last time this came up.
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Perhaps this disk is the environmental lobby's means of wreaking revenge on those nasty, conservative, planet-hating Mac users...