iPhone Business Model Hits a Snag in France 332
Serhei writes "It seems like the iPhone might not be released in France by this holiday season, since French requires by law that all cell phones sold there must be obtainable in an unlocked version. Apple will not be able to do so, since it has launched with a 5-year exclusivity agreement with AT&T. That deal will probably require exclusivity worldwide to avoid grey-market imports. (In return for this agreement Apple receives a large share of AT&T's monthly revenues from iPhone subscribers.) If the iPhone falls through in France, the country can join Belgium and a potentially long list of other countries with unlocking laws, whose Apple fans will have to make do with other, less Apple-y phones. Note that there is currently no mention of the iPhone on the Apple France page."
Good news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Enough with this, we fucking know by now (Score:1, Insightful)
Do we need 50 BILLION stories about this? "OMG IPHONE SUX, APPLE SUX 2 LOL" I'm expecting to be the next story down the pike. How many of you people are so stupid as to buy an iPhone, when anyone who bothered to look saw that it was locked into AT&T even in the months and month of preview hype.
Correct me if I'm wrong here.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:something is missing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, hence the comment about grey-market imports. It's unlikely that AT&T would be happy with the iPhone being sold unlocked in any country, as those unlocked phones could then be imported into the US, despite the exclusivity agreement.
No, it wouldn't be as easy as if the iPhone was available unlocked in the US, and yes there are ways to unlock an iPhone, but that's not the point. If I were at AT&T and negotiated the deal, I'd have made damn sure that Apple were bound not to sell the iPhone unlocked anywhere, to make it that bit harder to obtain an unlocked one. Remember, you don't have to make it impossible, just hard or risky enough that that people can't be bothered.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Why iPhone can't be exclusive (Score:3, Insightful)
What is the iPhone? It's just a phone with nice easy interface on a large touchscreen. It's not terribly hard to copy, nor is it illegal.
If Apple decided not to sell in France and other countries because it can't have 100% exclusivity with one provider, the other companies will fill their niche just fine. The only loser is Apple themselves.
Re:The iPhone will be known as Steve's Folly (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:errors in summary (Score:4, Insightful)
This is probably Apple's original plan. A year from now we are very likely to see the iPhone for sale in 1/2 dozen markets, each locked to a single provider in that market.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong here.... (Score:2, Insightful)
The important thing is that they can't prevent people using the phones on other networks. That isn't compatible with selling them with a five year contract that gives them access to a particular network, provided that they don't prevent people using the phones on other networks. Get it?
What I'd like to know is..... (Score:4, Insightful)
The argument is that Apple obviously has legal counsel who foresaw all of these problems (risk of class action, being made illegal in certain countries, etc...)
Yet they do not have any problem doing this for what (in hardware evolution time) is several lives long, and they are basically risking everything on this gamble.
What could it be that made the pot so sweet that they went with this deal on a debut product?
And on the opposite side of the coin, what could have been so incredibly bad about offering the phone unlocked with a SIM card slot
that they, -who pride themselves in public for being so 'open'- did not see that as a viable option?
Do they act so arrogant that they don't even want to please all of the international travelers who swap SIM cards
every time they arrive in a new country? Someone, please drop some science on us. As it is, it makes no logical sense.
(Oh yeah, and BTW Steve, if you happen to read this, just email me the 411 directly...! KTHXBYE)
Z.
Re:Ahhh! (Score:3, Insightful)
They made their mistakes long ago with Apple III/Lisa and/or other lines and have done nothing but win consumers over since then.
...With the IIvx, and the Newton, and the clone licensing program, and the Performa line, and the PowerBook 5300, and... ;)
You'd think (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The iPhone will be known as Steve's Folly (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Good news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good news! (Score:2, Insightful)
Let me get this straight.... you REALLY think such regulation would prompt somebody to make a better phone than Apple?
Why would they?
They no longer have to!
If I were a phone maker, I'd say, "Thank you for locking out our toughest competitor."
Score another one for corporations who scam consumers into thinking regulation is good for them. Pay attention, this is how it's done folks.
Re:Exclusivity - bleh (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. France disagreed with the U.S. about Iraq (and yes, even though their reasons for doing so weren't the most honorable, it's fairly safe to say at this point that they were on the "right" side of the debate). However, this was a criticism of a matter of foreign politics and policy, and not some sort of personal vendetta against the entire population of America (especially those evil industrial design firms in California!)
It was the US who took the issue way too far. Even though it was a joke, serving "freedom fries" in the senate cafeteria was terribly crass.
Surprise! The world does not hate Americans by default. Most of them don't approve of what the government's doing, but neither do 70% of Americans these days.
Actually Apple is popular in France (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually Apple is popular in France, major executives have been French.
You might also check up on current events, when French and German citizens got to vote the results turned out a bit different than what the mass media wanted to portray. Candidates friendly to the US won.
When I was in Paris last year I was treated very well. Even though my French language skills are nearly non-existent. Disagreeing with a government's policy decision does not translate into a population hating companies or citizens.
Re:Good news! (Score:3, Insightful)
I am aware of an effort underway to sue apple for bricking unlocked phones, and I say bully to them. There needs to be more of this happening. Manufacturers are not used to producing smart devices, products which have capabilities far exceeding anything they intended. To date the gut reaction has been to stop people from exploring this new technology. Once we can defeat this anachronistic way of thought, we will truly begin to discover the wonders that this equipment can carry out.
Re:Viva la france (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Good news! (Score:4, Insightful)
Nokia doesn't seem to have a problem making a profit selling unlocked phones, neither does SonyEricsson, Samsung, LG, HTC etc. Apple could have sold way more phones if it had been available worldwide, unlocked and without a plan, just like e.g. the iPod.
And they should have released in Europe first, by the time the iPhone was released in the US, it was high-tech for the US market, but not so much for the EU market. by the time it arrives in Europe, it's outdated. Sure it has a nice user interface, but it misses a lot of the features people expect, like UMTS or HSDPA.
Consumer "protection" laws... (Score:1, Insightful)
I'd rather be "at the mercy" of Apple and have the option to choose what restrictions I'll submit myself to than have a monolithic bureaucracy (however you want to spin it) decide for me.
But then, that's always been the difference between freedom and socialism.
Re:Consumer "protection" laws... (Score:3, Insightful)
BTW, it's Apple's choice not to enter the European marketplace, not the EU's choice. There's no reason why they couldn't play by the same rules other providers are. Well, except they might have locked themselves in with AT&T.
Also, while TFS mentions Belgium I suspect Apple not entering this particular market has more to do with the lack of flat rate internet subscription plans than with the consumer protection plans. Luckily this is changing (slowly) but I doubt the iPhone would really work down here right now. Companies make boneheaded moves all around the world it seems. Surprise!
Re:You have got to be kidding... (Score:5, Insightful)
A free market is not a goal in itself, just like unlimited freedom of citizens isn't a good idea either.
It's a good idea to limit the citizens freedom to commit murder, just like it's a good idea to limit the freedom of companies to pollute and corrupt the marketplace.
Businesses cannot be allowed to rule the marketplace without oversight as it's very profitable for the monopolist to corrupt the market and keep other competitors out, this leads to less competition and less choice for the consumers.
Even if a company cannot get a monopoly it can still enter into price fixing agreements and again the market and customers lose.
There are tons of situations where companies just don't do the right thing and the market forces are too weak to steer them straight.
Saying that any regulation is always worse than no regulation is naive in the extreme.
Our laws enable us to use any phone on any network and it allows us to change operators easily without changing phones, that has led to very low prices and a wide selection of phones, saying that it's worse to have more competition and lower prices at the cost of a little regulation sounds downright silly.
A government isn't totalitarian just because it regulates a market, it's a much bigger problem if it started passing laws governing what citizens could do in the privacy of their own home.
Normally I would agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Europe, and not just the EU got this one right. They understood that to grow the pie you need to be open and allow choice. You need to allow people to choose whatever phone, and plan they want.
With respect to profit, dude, you are really wrong here. The North American telcos when compared to cell phone business only are not that large. If you look at the bottom lines Voda phone, Orange, T-Mobile are doing pretty well.
Now with respect to plans and getting good ones. Well, you are taking an extremely biased perspective.
For example the following is considered a plus (T-Mobile)
* No nationwide long-distance or roaming charges (BTW this is free throughout Europe)
And why do people have to pay for incoming calls? And what about roaming charges outside of the US? Compare how much you would pay if you were to travel from the US to Canada. Then very quickly you would see how expensive things get.
My point is that you should get to know both sides of the issue before saying Europe does not get it. Again while I normally do think North America is ahead in technology, when it comes to cell technology North America is behind the times...
Re:Actually Apple is popular in France (Score:3, Insightful)
By the way, that picture, taken out of its original context is just as much a troll as what you posted.
My point still stands. You know what the first victim is in every war.
What myth? (Score:3, Insightful)
The slot is not of much use when the phone is locked to a specific SIM card. Which is what the GP complained about. Switching to a local SIM card when you come to a new country will of course save you a lot of money, when the phone will refuse to operate. But keeping your phone turned off will save you the same amount, and be much simpler.