Apple Cuts Off Linux iPod Users 854
Will Fisher writes "New iPods will no longer be able to work with Linux. iTunes now writes some kind of hash (SHA1, md5?) to the iPod database which new iPods check against. If this check fails then the iPod reports that it contains 0 songs. This appears to be protection against 3rd party applications writing out their own databases. We haven't found out how to generate our own valid hashes (but we do know the hash includes the database itself, and possibly the iPod serial number), and are looking for help."
How many days until someone develops a work around (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So I guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:4, Insightful)
One month (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's take up a pool for how long Apple's "protection" lasts. Anyone else predict something different?
*sniff* (Score:5, Insightful)
design now defective (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
I've never understood the desire to use an Ipod (Score:2, Insightful)
There go any future sales (Score:1, Insightful)
Linux can't use it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How many days until someone develops a work aro (Score:1, Insightful)
b) Because Apple happens to be a software company, who happens to deal in operating systems?
c) Because they hate Linux and are out to destroy it.
Two of the above are plausible reasons, neither of them are c). Pick.
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, this just makes it easier to say no to them IMO. I was already pissed off enough that my 2nd gen Nano couldn't load Rockbox, but now this.
In TFA they make it clear they are going to try to get around this, and they probably will, but part of me just wants to say why bother? Fuck Apple. They don't want my money, good, they won't get it.
Re:I've never understood the desire to use an Ipod (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Could Apple be sued over this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple increasingly hostile to Linux users (Score:5, Insightful)
It all started last year when with the release of iTunes 7, Apple purposely broke DAAP [wikipedia.org], ending the compatibility of their iTunes software with various [gnome.org] media players [gnome.org]. Now rhythmbox/amaroK/banshee users can't listen to iTunes shares, and no one has yet been able to break the hash that would allow it.
So it comes as no surprise that the iPod is being further locked down. The closer our desktops get in usability to OS X (and they are not close yet, but making progress), the more of this we'll see.
Disclaimer: I use an OS X desktop and a Linux laptop.
Re:*sniff* (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:2, Insightful)
It sounds to me like there is a security problem in allowing any program to write to the iTunes database and have that code executed by the iPod or iPhone. If Microsoft Windows were to let just any program write into the system folder... oh, wait, they do that --- but we laugh at their utter lack of security as a result.
I highly suspect that Apple, a company that used *nix as the basis for its entire operating system, isn't trying to screw Linux users. Sounds like a security patch caused a problem and I hope that this outcry will fix it.
Worst product launch in a long time (Score:5, Insightful)
Let us count how bad this product launch is:
1) 33% price cut for the iPhone, which threw early adopters in a fit, and then the $100 "rebate".
2) iPod touch is crippled. The Bluetooth is physically there (supposedly) but not enabled. No editing calender appointments. No Notes app or the other apps from iPhone. Screen issues with the contrast & blackness versus the iPhone.
3) iPod Classic, slower less responsive UI. Old Video accessories don't work with the iClassic.
4) iPod Nano, the FatPod. Same slower UI as the Classic. No memory increase.
Seriously, in 10 days Apple seems to have found a way to piss everyone off. Now they go after the Linux community. How badly have they bungled this product launch?
1) As a non-iPhone owner or wanter, the brew-ha-ha over the $200 price cut irritates me not because of the price cut but the reaction is such that you better believe Apple won't ever make similar price cuts in the future.
Plus you know a 16GB iPhone will come out as soon as the iPhone is released in Europe.
2) Once again, the iTouch will be jailbreaked and the iPhone apps ported to the iTouch, but this type of needless product differentiation crippling cause bad will. And, this hacking may break whenever Apple releases a firmware update. For example, the Linux lock-out of this story.
Apple could have just given people the product they want in the first place. As the screams of people have shown, there is a market for a phoneless iPhone.
The screen issues are unfixable but possibly explained by manufacturing variables.
3) The iClassic is the least changed and therefore least disliked of the new products. The software (DRM) incompatibility with video accessories is unnecessary.
4) Now the FatPod is merely ugly. It is a shame about the less responsive UI. And really it was time to bump up the storage to 16gb. One wonders if the storage was capped at 8Gb in an attempt to differentiate this versus the iTouch. After all if they are needlessly crippling the iTouch why not nerf the FatPod?
Is it just hurbis that has gotten Apple's head so far up its ass, or is this just a cyclical Apple implosion? If the latter, we are in for a few more years of Apple stupidity before they re-emerge with some new wonder product.
Re:How many days until someone develops a work aro (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing you're missing is that Apple executives did not sit down and decide to make things hard for Linux users. Probably they sat down and looked for a way to stop MS from making WMP work with the iPod, since, MS uses similar lock in strategies against them in other markets every day. They were probably considering Sony and maybe Real. They may or may not have considered Linux at all and if they did they probably decided there were so few Linux users that the impact would not be as bad as letting MS leverage their monopolies to push Apple out of markets while not taking every effort to leverage their own near monopoly.
Normally I'd object pretty strongly to any sort of enforced tie ins like this, but when competing against MS and while it is clear the Justice department will do nothing to stop their abuses, Apple and all other companies competing with them are in a very bad spot. Two wrongs don't make a right, but anything that stops MS from becoming the sole gatekeeper for DRM and all media within the next decade sounds like something we really, really need. And make no mistake, if not for Apple's iPod and Apple leveraging it, WMP would be the format for almost all legal music on the internet and MS would be taking a cut of it and preparing to stop said music from playing on Linux and other OS's altogether
Also, I don't own an iPod and am pretty sure there will be a work around in short order.
Re:But but but... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a fine line to walk for them, as a business beholden to stock holders, and they do a reasonable job of it in some aspects and a horrible job in others. This is just one of the ways they've done a horrible job. They've never tried to include any sort of support of the open source community with iTunes, and I wouldn't expect them to in the future.
Re:I hate iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)
The trick is to let the software do its job without micromanaging it. Focus on what you want to get done rather than the detailed steps of how to get there, and you'll find that it does actually end up being easier and faster.
(Actually, that's generally the problem with open source UIs, I've found. Sure, they provide every possible way to customize every detailed step of the process... but all I want to do is accomplish X! If I want to break things down into algorithmic steps and tweak the parameters of those steps, well, that's what programming is and I do that enough in my job and my side projects. Applications should just work, they shouldn't need to be programmed.)
Re:Oh boy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Could Apple be sued over this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*sniff* (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, I see some advantages to the bigger iPods -- lots of storage is a good thing, and halfway decent battery life likewise. But the smaller ones? Just because it's branded "Apple"?
Re:Danger, Will Robinson! DMCA Alert (Score:3, Insightful)
Missed the point (Score:4, Insightful)
So, why would Apple want to block third-party apps from writing to iPods? Let's speculate:
- Apple might be getting customer support calls from people who corrupt their iPod databases. So by blocking third-party apps, Apple is reducing support costs.
- Apple is about to make major changes to iTunes, and to the iPod database format, and needs to keep third-party apps from corrupting the new databases.
- Apple wants to be the only way that music gets on iPods for some business reason.
Re:Rockbox (Score:3, Insightful)
Slashdot confirms it: the iPod is dying. (Score:1, Insightful)
In a sense, it all started with the iPhone. By tying the service to AT&T, they limited their potential customers to a fraction of the nation's cellular subscribers. After failing to meet sales expectations, Apple was forced to drop the price dramatically and issue a costly rebate to pacify their early-adopter fanbase.
To be sure, there is much that is innovative about the device. The user interface, especially the web browser, is miles ahead of comparable products. It is a sad state of affairs that such ingenuity has been sabotaged by Apple's obsession with controlling the users of their platforms.
In taking out the phone and releasing the iPod touch, though, Apple made another huge blunder. Instead of adding a real hard drive, Apple used the same flash memory they do in the iPhone, limiting the device to 16GB. For many longtime iPod users, this is nowhere near enough storage.
Apple's solution has been to simultaneously release the iPod Classic, which has more than ample storage, but is lacking in all the exciting new features that Apple has been devoting their R&D to. These users will feel left out, and be more suceptable to switching to a competitors player that offers more features when it comes time for another purchase.
Then, of coarse, there is the new iPod Nano Video, with its tiny screen. This isn't Tokyo, impractically small electronics have never taken off in America, and the new Nano will be no exception.
This new development is just another nail in the coffin on the new iPod line. If I still had Apple stock, I would sell it now. As many other posters and TFA point out, it's not just Linux users, admittedly a small minority, that are being shut out; it's also Windows users who want to manage their iPod from the player of their choice.
Apple's insistence on dictating behavior on their users has crossed the line from insult to injury. Congratulations, Steve, you just lost a customer.
Single post blog (Score:1, Insightful)
I know this is
Re:My wife was given an Ipod for Christmas.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I hate iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)
I just hate iTunes. I know other people like it, but it seems to me that non-tech people find iTunes easy, and tech folks don't. As a tech guy, iTunes drives me insane. It doesn't do what I want, doesn't do things my way, does things I don't expect, etc.
I think much of it is a control issue. Techies tend to be control freaks. We also grew up with Winamp (or similar), and are used to devising our own directory structure for our music collection, expecting to have iTunes use our file management schemas. When I first started using it, I got confused. Where the hell are my music files? Why is it recopying what I just put over there? Why won't it let me play these files?
After a day of this, I just said 'screw it' and let iTunes put shit where it wants to, and I decided it does a good job. That's the difference in perception - iTunes is a good system to get music from various sources and never have to worry about the notion that music is contained in 'files.' If you try to buck the system, you and iTunes will hate each other.
Re:Linux Schminux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My wife was given an Ipod for Christmas.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate this decision, and see no benefit to Apple from it except to "drive eyeballs" to iTunes, which is horrible, and thus ITMS. So between that and making the recording industry feel more comfortable, since they just broke all the third party apps to let people copy THEIR OWN MUSIC off of their iPod, I'd say it's "Lose/Lose" to the users.
Still happy I bought my Mac, still like my iPod, probably will skip a new one if this doesn't get fixed. What other players allow music to be Scrobbled when you plug them into your machine, and what apps support these properly? Amarok? I hope?
Re:But but but... (Score:2, Insightful)
I see a crowd mentality at work here
Sounds like you understand it perfectly.
Because they made it cool (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple convinced everyone that a music player was something you needed to have, and their's was the stylish one to get. As such, they managed to grab the majority of the market.
Well, once you've got something like that going, inertia will carry you a long way. People don't like change, once they get something that works for them they don't change it without reason. As such you get people sold on iPods and when they need a new player, they just go and get another one, they don't really look at alternates. It works for them, why change?
Finally you should know that individuality isn't something most hold in a high regard. Even most of the "non-conformist" types simply work real hard to conform with their given non-conformist group. It's rare to find people who simply don't give a shit and do their own thing regardless of society.
Re:How many days until someone develops a work aro (Score:3, Insightful)
They could just be for integrity checking. Maybe Apple doesn't want people using 3rd party utilities that screw up the iPods then having to get the calls from those users furious that the thing no longer works. That's one explanation. Maybe with all the executable stuff they offer now (games, which will probably increase) the iPod is so popular it is becoming a bigger target and they don't want "How your iPod can kill your computer... story at 11PM" plastered all over the TV. By not telling others how to do it (they have NEVER supported 3rd party programs in doing stuff with the iPod), they keep virus writers from circumventing the protection.
As for bad PR, bull. This will never be picked up by the mainstream media. 95% or more of iPod users will never hear this story or understand ore care about it even if they did.
I'd like to point out that they are not obliged not to break 3rd party stuff. If you are doing things that are not company sanctioned, you should just assume that any updates may break your stuff.
Re:But but but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:-1, Dumbfuck poster (Score:2, Insightful)
IT'S NOT AN EXECUTABLE.
I'm well aware of the difference between a database and an executable. But, as we have seen all too many times, errors in programs all too often allow content which appears to be data to be executed as code. Look at any buffer overflow exploit.
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it is suggested that this is to thwart syncing with third-party apps, but it seems like that's a pointless effort. I have been known not to understand stuff, though.
Re:But but but... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's not necessarily a bad thing. I got an iPod because I use iTunes (and I use iTunes because I used a Mac as my primary computer at the time). For me, the organizational abilities of iTunes are compelling, particularly Smart Playlists. Having that supported by the portable player, which also automatically syncs with it, is doubly so.
Does Amarok (which is the only player I've heard of being comparable to iTunes) support something like Smart Playlists? Does Rockbox support something like Smart Playlists? Can Amarok and Rockbox synchronize the Smart Playlists? Automatically? If the answer to any of these questions is "no," then iTunes/iPod is still the best choice.
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the one hand, I empathize with wanting control of the platform. On the other, I just can't work up any sympathy for them. They're certainly going to fail in the long-term, unless the invoke the DMCA... a move which would alienate them with the rip/burn crowd they've courted over the last many years, but might make them friends with the networks that they've lost.
Re:How many days until someone develops a work aro (Score:4, Insightful)
1) You're assuming that this change is intended purely to alienate Linux users. This change was probably made for some other reason, and alienating Linux users was a (possibly unintended) side-effect of it.
2) The iPod never claimed to carry any sort of support for Linux whatsoever. It seems to me that if you wanted to support Linux, you'd buy a product that actually supports Linux instead of one that doesn't-- and then complaining when the hack you're using to get it to work no longer works!
Re:So I guess... (Score:3, Insightful)
modded down by the iPod fanboys in 3...2...1...
Re:*sniff* (Score:2, Insightful)
One can't assume intent from the action. And its their interface, they can do whatever they want with it -- be it maliciously, humorously, or for some other reason only known to Steve Job's pet chinchilla.
Now, if you really want to do something -- lobby Apple for a *supported* interface to the device. If they say no, that's what you complain about.
No, No, No... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I hate iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
I started using iTunes on Windows as jukebox software while working at Microsoft. Previous to that, I'd been using Winamp while at work to listen to the 80Gigs or so of music that I had on my work computer.
Here's why I switched:
First, my listening preference at the time was what I like to call 'Gong Show Radio', where Winamp would run in random mode on a playlist of all my music. If a song came up that I didn't like or wasn't in the mood for, I'd click next. The hassle with using Winamp was that I had to remake my 'everything' list whenever I added music to my collection. I had to use a ripping program to rip my cds, then put them logically in my file system, then add them to my Winamp playlist. ITunes does all that itself. In fact, when adding several discs at once to my collection, there's a setting that allows me to have a cd ripped on insertion, then eject when done. That meant I could rip my music on my computer without even thinking about it, just swap cds when I noticed the drive tray open.
Next, making playlists in iTunes is drag-and-drop. Making playlists in winamp was a PITA.
I don't burn cds of my music very often, but when I have, I've appreciated the simplicity of iTunes. It's even easier than Nero to put together a disc the way you want. You want mp3 disc? data disc? AIFF disc? Time gap between tracks? no problem.
Some people here have complained that iTunes wants to organize their files in a different way than they would do it themselves. I have never found this to be a problem, because regardless of how the songs are stored on the HD, the interface for accessing them in iTunes is the same. And unlike Winamp*, I'm able to view and sort my music based on album, artist, genre, song title, or whatever other data column I care to.
The only bitch I have about iTunes is that it wouldn't help me put music onto my 20GB Zen mp3 player. The device came with its own proprietary software that was kludgy to use, and after a month or so, I stopped updating my mp3 player, and a year later got an iPod. Updating songs on it from iTunes is insanely easy, my only bitch is that it takes so long to sync. Since then, my zen has just been collecting dust. (please note that I did not purchase either mp3 player, both were gifts.)
Again, these are the reasons I switched to iTunes as a digital jukebox. There are other perquisites that have been released in iTunes updates since then, like automatically downloading podcasts, video support, and netradio. I don't know of any other product that is as easy to use that has as much functionality. Please advise if you know of any.
*Please note that my switch occurred around 4 years ago, and Winamp may have changed since then. The features and faults I describe may be out-of-date, but I don't really care as I have software that works great and I haven't looked back. I still have an open mind, but I haven't heard anyone screaming about how $foo software makes a much better jukebox than iTunes, and at this point the software would have to be significantly better to make me switch.
Re:But then MS didn't have a monopoly on OSes (Score:3, Insightful)
100% market share isn't required to be a monopoly. Apple has held their market share for decades because they are primarily a hardware distributor and provide the platform for their software. They also control their entire distribution channel (no oem deals needed). The loyal fanbase doesn't hurt either.
The anticompetitive tactics Microsoft has been convicted of in the past really don't affect that core market share. It probably did affect their ability to grow marketshare though.
So it would appear that you don't have to have a 100% market share to get slapped for laws relating to monopoly status.
Well, you have to be able to prove that they have enough control over the market that they can exert monopoly control of it. Having 72% of the market and having lots of competitors , and having new competitors enter the market fairly easily is not a monopoly.
In the absence of a monopoly, their actions with respect to iTunes store integration with the iPod and locking out 3rd parties isn't illegal.
Re:I hate iTunes (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Encrypted firmware prevents Linux on the new iP (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not. When it comes to Apple, the fanatics will gang up on anybody complaining even a slight bit about Apple. They don't see the irony that Apple has become Microsoft of the DAP market. Force is very strong on them.
Won't code when the penalty is so high (Score:3, Insightful)
Now we do.
The iPod is made of weird. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, the iPod doesn't work this way. It keeps the files in a special part of the file system and even if you put the files there it needs special tools to make it work.
I don't understand why anyone using Linux would bother with an iPod. I found it a horribly frustrating MP3 player because of the annoying user interface and daft click wheel... AND it costs more! Why bother with it?
Re:So I guess... (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe one that just shows up as a removable drive or is media player independent or doesn't demand you use window or OSX.
Re:I hate iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
There is some information that's stored only in the iTunes Library, and not in ID3 tags - for example play counts, song ratings (those little star things), and the options for when to begin and end playing a particular track. This information will be lost if something happens to your iTunes Library database. However, anything that is stored in the file (title, artist, album, genre, etc. - even album cover art) should not be lost if you uninstall iTunes.
It would actually take a fair amount of effort (and time) to go through and remove all of this information from every MP3 or AAC file you have. iTunes does not do this when uninstalling.
Re:Lunix: you just got a SteveJob!!! (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Have you tried Corned Beef? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:But but but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe (hopefully) things are different these days, but the last time I looked at mp3 players (a year or two ago), it was pretty obvious why the ipod was so popular: all the models from other companies were (1) really ugly, (2) kind of flimsy feeling (apple used aluminum, others used painted plastic, usually with tacky chrome-looking plastic accents), (3) had awful UIs (hard to press and badly placed buttons etc), and (this is the part that amazes me), (4) more expensive than the ipod for the same amount of storage.
It was really kind of surreal, like the other manufacturers were living in some sort of dreamland where they had no competition and people would buy any old junk they released as long as it had the string "mp3" in its name...
Re:Encrypted firmware prevents Linux on the new iP (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So I guess... (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html [apple.com]
You know what to do. Complaining to the source is sometimes better than complaining to other people with the same opinions.
Re:But but but... (Score:3, Insightful)
-
If you are a small player in the market, it is in your best interest to get as many people as possible to buy your hardware. Letting them use whatever software they want is a plus. But,
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If you already have most of the market, and expect to easily keep it, then you might consider ways to exploit that position. Microsoft has been doing this with Windows, for example; apparently Apple are trying to do the same. The issue is that DRM-free song sales have become a reality, which opens the possibility for Microsoft, Real, MTV etc. to sell you tracks and place them on your iPod. When the music labels only sold DRMed tracks, and the iPod only played Apple DRM, Apple wasn't worried. But now they are.
So, this is an expected business tactic. Consumer-friendly, though it is not. Consequently, I know I (a Linux user) won't be buying any iPods.Come on people, this is just a music player! (Score:3, Insightful)
Easily fixed. (Score:5, Insightful)
A gated suburban hell (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll take the chaos and diversity of the city over Apple's quiet little aesthetically pleasing, shiny white, gated suburban community.
Re:So I guess... (Score:2, Insightful)
Letting iTunes manage our music libraries is a godsend. Seriously.
You need to start letting computers do the work for you, instead of forcing them to let you do the work.
Re:A gated suburban hell (Score:1, Insightful)