iPhone Doesn't Surf Fast Enough for Jobs 436
ElvaWSJ writes with a link to a Wall Street Journal interview with Steve Jobs and AT&T's CEO Randall Stephenson. As you can imagine, they're pretty enthusiastic. Just the same, they address the possibility that the iPhone will slow internet access on Ma Bell's cell network. "Mr. Jobs acknowledged that the company's new iPhone won't surf the Internet as fast as he would like on the network, called "Edge," but added that the device's ability to connect to Wi-Fi hotspots would give consumers a speedier alternative for Web browsing. For his part, Mr. Stephenson said the iPhone represents a broader push by AT&T into Wi-Fi services, including, potentially, mobile Internet calling. The two men also discussed the iPod's "halo effect" and reflected on the origins of their corporate partnership."
EDGE is a slow network. (Score:4, Insightful)
-sigh- (Score:2, Insightful)
Nice to see Apple continuing the fine corporate tradition ov copying other people's innovations and claiming them as their own.
Re:I didn't get far... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:1, Insightful)
They didn't say they invented it (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I didn't get far... (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't make any apologies for Job's well known asshole tendencies (but supposedly those are much more subdued since NeXT, guess winning does fix everything?) but all he is doing here is stating what really happened. Were the primitives and direct inspiration for the Mac gui borrowed from Xerox? Damn straight. They borrowed from other places too, but they had the foresight to slap it all together and shove it out to the masses. This is how humanity works people, we build on what others have done and sometimes we take an idea that seems trivial to one person (gui inside xerox that was never intended for consumers) and wring it through the brain of another person and out pops a whole new shift in perspective.
I'm sure in his heart, Jobs sincerely believes this is the biggest interface breakthrough in 23 years; you or I may not agree. If you pay close attention to Job's words he actually doesn't take credit for anything that Apple didn't do. Anything they co-opt and bring to market is always a "we" or an "us".
Does it autoconnect or manual to wifi (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reminds me of a European Country (Score:1, Insightful)
No? Then it isn't a music player as far as most of us are concerned.
It is telling that you compare iPhone's wifi (only) to Origami and UMPC. Then you compare its cell data connection to a Samsung phone. And totally ignore the fact that none of the above play music from iTMS.
What you FAIL to understand is that iPhone combines ALL of these features into one sleek package. It doesn't just do wifi as well as the Origami. It doesn't just look better than the Samsung. It doesn't just play my iTMS music. It isn't just the simplest smart phone with the best UI. It doesn't just have ground breaking visual voice messages, or multi touch inteface with no clunky mini-buttons. It does ALL of those things, really well, all packed into a normal sized cell phone package.
Watch. When every other person you pass on the street has iPhone, you hillbillys with your half screen half keypad dumb phones will be the laughingstock.
Re:Ignore what it is, think of what it could be! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:WiFi (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say its AT&T protecting itself when problems start to crop up with their data network.
Re:I find the lock-in with a provider retarted. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is NOT your friend, and they are NOT trying to bring about a revolution for the little guy. They are trying to worm their way in to every possible aspect of getting your money. Why do you HAVE to go thru iTunes to set a ring tone? Why can't you just use an existing MP3 that you downloaded/copied over to the phone? Because Apple doesn't get a cut that way.
The phone is not unlocked because Apple gets a cut of the service from AT&T. The phone will most likely only be unlocked when Apple negotiates a cut from the other GSM service providers.
Re:I didn't get far... (Score:5, Insightful)
There were several little incubator projects or outright commercial failures for GUI's in the early 80's. Macintosh was the one that brought it to the world. They are the ones that got it right. That gives them some pretty significant bragging rights.
Same as 1.5 Mbps is enough for anyone. (Score:4, Insightful)
Mr. Stephenson: If you think about wireless broadband networks, EDGE is the only ubiquitous nationwide broadband network deployed today. It's a 300-plus kilobit type service. We're selling in the tens of thousands every single month of smart phones that operate on nothing but EDGE. The service experience is really, really good and what you're going to see with the iPhone is the caching technology that Steve and the Apple guys have developed here makes the EDGE experience even better. Between the Wi-Fi and the EDGE coverage, this is a really good experience.
High latency, low bandwidth broadband. Huzzah!
Sprint's EVDO network is deployed as widely as AT&T's EDGE network (not even all of AT&T's GSM network is EDGE). Worse, Sprint's EVDO revA network is deployed in most metropolitan areas, nearly all interstate highways, and nearly all tourist areas.
For AT&T, Edge is "all the speed you need", up until they deploy HSDPA, in which case that will be, "all the speed you need". Just like this: http://www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/03/30/att-proj
Mr.Stephenson said that AT&T's field tests have shown 'no discernable difference' between AT&T's 1.5 Mbps service and Comcast's 6 Mbps because the problem is not in the last mile but in the backbone.
Ridiculous
Re:Halo (Score:2, Insightful)
5) Look at what we did for the music industry
Which means that Apple redefined the entire business. Any label that turned down Apple when they came calling about iPod/iTMS has either wised up and jumped on the bandwagon too late or had better spend the last few dollars they are about to make on shutters to cover their windows when they vacate their buidling.
The future is plain enough for anyone with vision to see. iPhone will be the new word for cell phone. 5 years from now when you walk into a hospital you won't see "No cell phones" signs, you'll see a graphic of an iPhone with a circle and a slash through it, just like you do now for iPods (oh, I'm sorry, 'music players' to you few remaining holdouts).
Sure, Apple might eventually relent and let other carriers join in the revolution, but likely AT&T will always receive preferential terms. And probably inside access to the partculars of how to make their network use iPhone's industry leading hardware to its fullest.
But no, I'm not surprised they turned it down. The US cellular industry could be used as a model for how not to be visionary and instead rest on your laurels and hide behind regulation. But the time will come when consumers demand change, and they'll be driven to do so by iPhone.
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:I didn't get far... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:-sigh- (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Revolutionary? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, my P990i does have a touchscreen, does view the web, does play music. That doesn't mean the iPhone's UI isn't revolutionary.
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd rather have more power consumption to download something in two seconds than less power consumption to download it in 10. The battery life may be somewhat less but if you can get the same amount of web browsing done in less time, what's the loss?
Sorry, I prefer speed at the expense of battery life. That and no tethering makes the iPhone less than useful for me.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
What better advertising for the iPhone could there be than Apple's CEO complaining that the data rate is too slow?
my fears have been relived...
I'm sorry you even had to live them once, much less twice.
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:5, Insightful)
No it doesn't. I for one find it unacceptable to have to plug in my cell phone in the middle of the day. It's why I've opted for smart phones with fantastic battery life (Sony P800 and currently the Nokia e61). Until they announced the new battery life figures for the iPhone it was a non-starter for me, regardless of how cool it may be. There are plenty of times when I'm not near a power outlet, and since I'm on-call 24/7 there are also plenty of times when I don't want to be tethered to a power outlet. Long battery life means I can go where I want and do what I want without concern about the phone dying. I plug it in while I sleep and the next day it's ready to go all day again.
I've been to trade shows with people running around looking for power outlets so they can charge their phones. Tethered to one place for an hour or two at a time. Sorry, I've got places to go and things to do.
Is edge slow compared to 3G? Sure, it's what I had on the P800 and it's what I have on the e61 (T-Mobile doesn't do 3G). You know what? It's fast enough for email and web surfing is tolerable. I'm not downloading Gigabytes of data because IT'S A FREAKIN' PHONE! Is 3G faster? No doubt. But for email and web surfing edge is actually just fine. If I need faster access then most likely I also need the processing power in my laptop, not a phone. For those occasions I'm after a wi-fi hotspot anyway.
Having said all that, if the iPhone was 3G would it be better? Of course. But is 3G the "requirement" every seems to think? Hardly. Of course I'm also a weirdo who thinks the lack of flash support in Safari on the iPhone is actually a blessing.
Re:Map mixes Edge and 3G (Score:5, Insightful)
So the progression is something like this:
2G -> 2.5G -> 3G -> 3.5G -> 4G
GSM -> Edge -> W-CDMA(UMTS) -> HSPA -> LTE
cdmaOne -> 1xRTT -> EVDO -> EVDO Rev A -> UMB/OFDMA/WiMAX
Sprint has already rolled out EVDO Rev. A in some locations, which is "bitchin fast" for both download and upload.
I've had an EVDO Rev. 0 card in my laptop for a few years, and while I wouldn't say it is quite as fast as WiFi, it is really great and I get 5 hours of battery life.
In conclusion, your statement that the country is "EDGE ready, not 3G" is inaccurate in several ways. Not meaning to flame.
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
For a device that is clearly going to be bandwidth hungry to be useful as more than a pretty phone it needs 3G. If Wifi is available and you want to stick around a hotspot you might as well take out your notebook, if you're not buying it for the internet capabilities why not just get a plain phone?
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Here is a copy of the article (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, TFA also says there are issues with 3G chips, including power consumption AND physical size. There's a limit to the numbr of discreet chips you can cram into a device before you also start having to increase the form factor. More power hungry chips means a bigger battery to get to the same life, which also translates into a larger form factor.
Yes, you could probably add in 3G and GPS and an 80B drive and tethering and all of the other "missing" features that people are complaining about... but do you really want a phone the size of a Newton?
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Here is a copy of the article (Score:4, Insightful)
Nice spin. I wish I had Wi-Fi networks wherever I roamed. My HTC Wizard has EDGE+WiFi, but I've never heard anyone claim "Whadda you want 3G for, you have Wi-Fi!"
Blah.
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:5, Insightful)
Every single person you're talking to, for starters. Haven't you just described the whole freakin' tech industry?
Re:EDGE is a slow network. (Score:2, Insightful)
that this poster had no idea what he was talking about and the iPhone is already on the Edge network...hence the entire basis of the article.
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:4, Insightful)
2.) Waiting for the next iPhone means waiting an unknown length of time. It could be years.
3.) The contract doesn't say you have to use the same phone for two years. If a better one comes out, you can switch.
4.) Many people are more interested with having constant access to things like email, which doesn't need 3G speeds.
Re:ch-ch-ch-turn and face the strange choices (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, you're made up numbers are not in your favor...
So for two minutes on edge, by your example, I use 2 watts.
And for 30 seconds on 3G, by your example, I use 12 watts.
So with 3G the phone goes dead mid-day and now I can't access my brokerage account at all. This is coming out ahead? I don't think so. Again if I have to choose slow that lasts all day to fast that last half a day (or less) I'll chose slow. Fast access is worth crap when your battery is dead. I don't want to have to carry around 3-4 extra batteries let along keep track of which is charged. Nor do I want to be tethered to a power outlet every few hours.
Sure they could have put a bigger battery on it, but that defeats the purpose of having a slim phone.
Re:Correction (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple yanked all of the Flash from its corporate website and redid it all in standard Ajax using scriptilicious and other plane jane tools, demonstrating that anyone can. It's even more interactive and functional (check out Apple.com search) and no proprietary plugin for Flash required.
Adobe isn't happy about it, but do we really need to convert the web from open HTML into closed FLA? Apple even convinced Google to start putting all of its FLA On2 videos on YouTube into standard H.264. That makes is much easier to deliver standards-based hardware acceleration for mobile devices that optimizes YouTube type sites.
With this kind of progress, the web is headed back into open territory after a long captivity in proprietary hell. That's good for Linux users, DIY site builders, and levels the playing field in hardware.
The web shouldn't be hostage to anyone's plugin just to render pages, particularly a plugin tied to a proprietary and industrially uncommon video codec that doesn't appear to have any hardware acceleration features. Anyone can license H.264 or get cheap dedicated processors.
Internet Explorer on the desktop PC doesn't make any attempt to support CSS3, and doesn't even try hard to do 2005-era CSS. The Pocket version is even further away from being remotely useful for the modern web.