iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote 1619
Steve Jobs kept his audience rapt at the MacWorld keynote today. He rehashed the announcement of the iTV, now called Apple TV, and announced the iPhone, a revolutionary phone/ipod/wrist-computer that had MacWorld attendees sitting on the edge of their seats. Retailing for $499 (4 gig)/$599 (8 gig), it has to be seen to be believed. It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi. It has a camera, functions as a movie player, a music player, and can send emails and photos in the middle of a phone call. From the Engadget coverage: "'[OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications.' He's quoting Alan Kay - 'People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.' 'So we're bringing breakthrough software to a mobile device for the first time.'" Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Battery life? (Score:4, Insightful)
They've done it (Score:3, Insightful)
Cingular only? For shame, Apple! (Score:2, Insightful)
Say what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not at that price tag, they're not. That's with a two year agreement with Cingular. That's way, way beyond most peoples' price points, and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.
It's a hybrid bastardization of several products that turned out to be a poor idea.
There should have been a touch screen iPod announced as well, for those of us who have other, more sane cell providers.
Re:Price to high (Score:5, Insightful)
And those prices will be exactly the same in June because you can see the future.
Seriously - they'll be able to sell data in volume now. Price will drop or be bundled with voice.
This device makes data compelling for everyone else - not just Johnny Businessman. It is what the phone companies built the data networks for in the first place.
An interesting time for Mac developers (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise, there's a new incentive for Windows-only applications to get ported to OSX so they can run on the iPhone.
Personally, I think that the term "revolutionary" gets used way too much. But in the case of the iPhone, it seems appropriate.
-ch
Just one more thing... it's an ebook reader. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if we get a simple text file display app, the ebook is finally here.
Re:Price to high (Score:2, Insightful)
Any mention of other carriers getting ahold of it? If so, then we'll entertain the notion of prices going down.
Impact to GPS device market? Automotive use? (Score:4, Insightful)
Assuming WiFi connectivity becomes widespread, I can see Google Maps printing money with this thing too. (If there's no WiFi available, but a cellular tower is within range, Cingular might be able to print money for the data shuffled back and forth while running an application like Google Maps.)
Biggest loser might be GPS device makers: Why spend $500 for a portable GPS unit when you can have the same thing (and get the "killer app" of Google-searchable maps, plus the nice bonus of satellite imagery, which can't be done on a portable GPS unit) in your phone for the same price?
I can also see a nice automotive aftermarket opportunity here. One of these things mounted on the dash, or in an aftermarket console/tray, would be an ergonomic (read: safer) way to do aftermarket GPS.
Re:Cingular only? For shame, Apple! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:iPhone... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The name (Score:4, Insightful)
Safe to assume they are bending poor Steve over a desk on this one.
If Slashdot hates it...... (Score:5, Insightful)
Like the PS3 is priced to high. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:An interesting time for Mac developers (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus, the idea of having an open ssh session to your phone/ipod/whatever is kinda cool (in a geek sort of way).
Exclusive with Cingular, probably necessary (Score:5, Insightful)
Much as I detest Cingular, Apple likely had little choice but to partner with one of the major cell phone carriers. Apple could, of course, had sold the iPhone without a SIM and had the customers install their own.
That would have been a marketing / tech support / and logistical mess, with different networks providing different data plans, features, connectivity, and even basic networks (GSM versus whatever the hell's out there). Partnering with Cingular makes life ever so much easier for Apple. Not only that, it prevents Cingular / ATT from partnering with some vaporware future Microsoft product that could steal Apple's thunder.
I'm not going to defend Cingular's horrific record. They're awful, no doubt. But all the wireless firms are awful right now. Given that Steve divested Apple of the awesome Imaging group, the nifty Newton, and other business units it would be surprising if Apple wanted to get into the cell phone provisioning business.
On another note, I'm already looking at how to rewrite a few Widgets to work on the iPhone...
Be careful talking about price (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember that Apple's been making buckets of money, for years, by selling things that either were or were perceived to be more expensive than the competition.
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Insightful)
Random access voice mail almost certainly required that they get the cooperation of a specific provider.
The price is a bit high. I'd guessed $499 but without a contract. They could certainly obliverate their competition if they were able to get it cheaper, but this is to the Treo or Sidekick as Final Cut Pro was to Adobe Premiere when it was introduced. In other words, it blasts the competition into smithereens.
I wonder if terminal and ssh are included somewhere in the device. Those nice Blackberry folks charge $95 for ssh and that would make up a lot of the price disadvantage if it was included in the Phone's MacOS X installation.
Finally, when I heard all the stuff that goes on that device, I would think you'd want a 30gb version. 4 and 8 gb of Flash almost seems like an insult for something that powerful. I suppose a hard drive would have made it too big and heavy, but still, people carry around hard drive based iPods just fine, and a hard drive iPod's not much different in size from the sidekick.
It's a pity consumers really love small
D
Some reality (Score:4, Insightful)
2) I've seen NO confirmation that you HAVE to buy a contract.
3) Anti Apple Trolls will take a large steaming dump on it no matter what it is.
iPod needs to get this software (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Price to high (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Say what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Say what? (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple wants a small part of the market to start. Unlike other cell phones, Apple is making money off every sale. They are not dumping the hardware hoping that market share will magically bring profits.
One also has to look at the full package. Most cell phones are feature compromised. Most cell phones require additional purchases to work with a computer. Most cell phones are only well integrated with the PC, and are no integrated at all with the Mac. The reason this phone is a value is because it is feature complete. You will not buy and find that a feature has been turned off, or you need to spend another $100 dollars for software. At least on a mac, everything you need is there. I am not saying that this phone is really worth the money, just that after buying my RAZR the sales person told me it would be another $100 to hook it up to my computer. Fortunately I had a mac and my own cable. So the costs on the apple phone are up front, while the other phones nickel and dime you.
As far as cingular, I am surprised they found anyone that was willing to give up the provider gravy train and allow such a phone. No need to pay $2 for ringtones. No need to use airtime to download songs. Given Verizon's huge monthly fees, and their lack of customer respect, I doubt they were even willing to talk about giving up the gravy train. Verizon does often have better coverage, but to me they have lost the war when it comes to value.
The official fanboy thread (Score:4, Insightful)
In this thread I want to give you the opportunity to state whether your earlier trolling against cellphones with mp3 playback functionality was 100%-Apple-fanboyism or if you stand by it and think the iPhone should never have happened. Thx.
Re:Say what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Not at that price tag, they're not. That's with a two year agreement with Cingular. That's way, way beyond most peoples' price points, and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.
That has always been Apple's strategy. Skim the cream first. A lot of people I know paid that much or more for a PDA phone. This was really close to what I was guessing their prices would be, but a lot nicer looking than I anticipated.
It's a hybrid bastardization of several products that turned out to be a poor idea.
I have a cheap cell phone because I've never found an expensive one I liked. They all had crappy interfaces and were pretty indifferent at being phones. I don't own an iPod or any portable mp3 player because I never thought I would use it that much. I do own a GPS, but I rarely use it because I only have it on me when I'm hiking. I own a cheap digital camera I rarely use because I only have it with me on vacations. I figured Apple would be coming out with a phone, but I did not expect I would want one. But this is it. I'm willing to spend my money if I find a quality product that I think is worth it. My pocket knife cost $200, but it is not going to snap or fold while I'm using it. In general hybrid devices are not good at multiple things because the integration and interfaces suck. In principal they are great for items you carry with you because you actually are willing to carry them. The scissors on my old swiss army knife were not as good as a regular, full sized pair, but they got used because I had them with me. The same principal holds here. I'll buy a phone+PDA+mp3 player+GPS+camera because I will use those features if I have them with me all the time. I'll pay for them, if someone puts them together correctly, and it looks like someone finally has.
I predict Apple will not be able to keep these in stock and they will be the most popular an imitated device in years.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Insightful)
*fit in the palm of your hand
*have a touchscreen
*have an OS redesigned around the touchscreen
*have a display
*make and receive phone calls
*deliver email the very second it arrives on the server
But package a computer -- a full blown one running Mac OS X -- into a tiny, shiny device, and people complain about a $600 pricetag.
Why?
Because the computer is SMALL.
Guess what? If anything, you should pay extra for that.
Just because your brain stem equates it with a Snickers bar, LG cell phone, TV remote control or Palm PDA due to its size does not mean its value is anywhere near as low.
No Widescreen iPod (Score:4, Insightful)
The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.
But where's the next-generation iPod? It's obvious that the technology is there; the iPhone has pretty much every feature that one could dream of in a next-generation iPod: it's widescreen, touch-controlled, and has much better screen resolution.
What about the vast majority of iPod customers who don't want an overfeatured, overpriced toy ($600 plus a two-year contract with the worst mobile service provider in the US--and they have a monopoly on it, by the way) with little storage capacity that won't be available until June? What about those of us who aren't interested in satellite images of the Washington Monument, or a simple way to voice-dial Starbucks, and just want a sexy gadget to play movies on the train? Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative? I thought they had more respect for their customers than that.
I don't see the biug deal (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll get excited over something like this the day there's reasonable nationwide wifi so I can use the net from literally anywhere. Until then, the only interesting feature of it is hamstrung.
EDGE, not HSDPA? Please. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical of a full OS X install running on that thing. It would be pretty cool if you could get some type of desktop and actually write apps for the iPhone on the iPhone. I'm probably the only one in the world who would want a feature like that.
Also, for an 'all in one' type device, there is one thing it's missing. Games! I'm not sure what kind of games could work well on a touch screen outside of puzzle/card games, but hopefully there will be a few that run on there.
Re:New Products! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cingular only? For shame, Apple! (Score:3, Insightful)
But even beyond that, if this phone takes off and cements itself into the public the way the iPod has, then a couple years from now, the other phone companies could be begging Apple to offer the iPhone for their networks. Just like the success of the iTMS gives Apple some decent leverage for dealing with the music industry, they're hoping to have that leverage with the phone companies, so that they can work out better deals in the future.
Thirdly (is that a word?), this is Apple's first jaunt into the world of mobile phones. There's bound to be problems. Having just one provider to deal with while working through most of these issues will make things easier, and by the time they're ready to expand, a lot of the rough edges will have been smoothed out.
We've already waited years and years for Apple to release a phone. A couple more won't hurt.
Re:Wii killer? Give me a break... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Intel CPU on Apple TV = cheap Linux/ mythtv box (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, ther WAS one word in a way. One word REMOVED from the name of the company.
Apple Computer Inc. --> Apple Inc.
(Wasn't part of the deal with the Beatles over this distinction?)
I think that speaks volumes about where Apple is headed, which is to make computers an optional part of their business. If five years down the road the hardware (or even software) part of the business isn't contributing, it can easily be jettisoned.
Re:Bigger implications (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:5, Insightful)
PLEASE sell one without a camera! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Like the PS3 is priced to high. (Score:3, Insightful)
The iPhone is a totally new device in almost every way. There's nothing else like it anywhere.
Re:Say what? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's only slightly higher than existing smartphones that have fewer features.
and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.
How do you figure? Most smartphones include less than 1GB of storage, and are at best expandable (at added expense) to about 2GB. The Treo 750, at $399+2 year Cingular contract only includes 128MB.
Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n (Score:3, Insightful)
This would be the expected behavior if it works like other Quicktime applications do -- if you run Quicktime Player on a 720x480px display (fullscreen) and play a high-definition source, it will just get scaled down and letterboxed.
I would just tend to worry about the datarates of 1080i MPEG2 material; I haven't played much with these 802.11n routers but I have a suspicion that if you have any sort of electrical interference on them at all, you're not going to see advertised speeds. It would make sense to downrez files on the transmitting end and not send the 1080i signal over the air, if the playback device only supported 720p. Of course, that complicates the server end of it.
My crazy-ass out-there prediction... (Score:3, Insightful)
My guess is that 5-7 years down the line, they introduce something that is barely recognizable as a "computer" that's aimed at replacing the current personal computer. The long-rumored tablet, but as different from current Tablet PCs as the iPhone is from blackberrys. A whole different class of product.
I hope.
You're wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
Most distros offer their own patchsets against the main kernel tree, but you can run red hat's 2.6.19 kernel on suse, gentoo, etc etc as long as you build it to use whatever features the operating system requires (udev/devfs/etc) support.
Linux is not maintained as disjoint projects with a shared code base. One central repository (kernel.org) maintains the offical source, and specialists maintain the architecture-specific code.
Neither the arch-specific code nor the patchsets are forks. You probably consider them to be forks because you do not know what a fork is. A fork is when a group of developers copy the code from a project and develop it independently in another direction without any intention to merge back with the main trunk. Arch-specific code is not a fork because it exists as part of the main kernel trunk. Patchsets are not forks because they only exist to be applied against the main trunk. Good patchsets frequently get merged into the trunk anyways.
Re:What you have really been waiting for. (Score:3, Insightful)
With one difference - the user interface, from both a hardware and software perspective, doesn't totally suck. This thing is going to eat Microsoft's lunch in the mobile market.
Re:Great phone, shitty provider (Score:3, Insightful)
No one's going to buy this with Cingular, especially at that price point with a contract. Most people who use blackberries--business customers, mainly--are not going to be attracted to the other features, and since this thing is two to three times the price of a high-end blackberry, there's no reason to replace the existing devices with this one.
Now, if any unlocked units come out, they might be better received. After all, it makes for an awesome PDA, video viewer, and mp3 player in one package. And, it might even work with networks other than Cingular as a basic phone. But that's still not enough for wide adoption at the current prices. And that's assuming that there will be unlocked units.
What they should've done was released a new series of video ipods with the present storage sizes of 4, 8, 30, and 80 GB (the 2GB would be too small to be useful), the fancy screen upgrades, HDD and flash, and the wireless at these prices (sans any required contract). That would've gotten people's attention. And I'm certain it would be next Christmas' big thing. The iPhone could've been released separately as it is now, even with the contract tie-in. This way, Apple can recoup their R&D losses with the iPod sales while they establish a foothold in the mobile phone market.
As it stands now, it's an awesome product and all, but only a few people will actually buy it. Lots of wow. But they're not going to see much of a return for a long time.
Wii controller? What are you talking about? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure the phone has sensors (lots of devices do), but I'm sure it will never, ever be intended for them to be used in the way you described. Maybe there will be some kind of hack project to make the iPhone usable as a very basic interface for something, but the basic sensors it has are limited, I'm sure to being useful for their intended design purposes. The Wiimote was designed over a period of years to be used as a controller for the Wii. It's functionality won't be duplicated by a hacked iPhone. And I don't think Microsoft wants to make a controller/phone/Zune that costs as much as its competitors more expensive games console, to attract people to the XBox360. The last thing you want to do is throw your $500 controller for the $400 console at your $2000 plasma. Not to mention the fact that the Wii controller concept works because the Wii was designed around it. Unless Microsoft wants to build a Wii-style console, Wii-style controllers will never sell for it. Look up "Power Glove" and "U-Force" on wikipedia.
Re:Price to high (Score:4, Insightful)
I can understand where they'd want to introduce the full blown phone first as they appear to be going to the FCC for approval right now. So now they can go ahead and build an iPod with the same components and release that in June too.
Re:Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns (Score:2, Insightful)
If so, then Whither Inkwell?
Re:PLEASE sell one without a camera! (Score:3, Insightful)
Digital SLR cameras, however, are useless for 90% of everybody. A quality camera phone would be an excellent "adult" device. Who knows if the camera in the iPhone is any good though...
If it's an iPod too, you wouldn't be able to bring it in to work anyway. Or do you work for one of those moronic places that lets you bring USB storage devices in, but not cameras?
Re:Bigger implications (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No Widescreen iPod (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.
But where's the next-generation iPod? [...] Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative?
How many freakkin versions of the iPod does it take for you to consider that you have been offered an alternative? Because iPod, iPod Video, Mini iPod, iPod Shuffle weren't enough, no, you're stuck with only one single choice, which you are forced at gunpoint to buy, no less.
Poor, poor you. How dare Apple design a slick product that will appeal to millions rather than spend their resources designing the product you want, at the price you deem fair? how dare they?
Re:Apple would sue Cisco? Based on what? (Score:4, Insightful)
I suspect that the defense for that would be thus: Since Apple itself never announced an iPhone product, Cisco (and any other company in a similar situation) shouldn't be locked out of their trademark by consumer rumors. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't trademark words unless you actually do "trade" in a particular name.
Trading in a product does not guarantee you won't lose your trademark. Trademarks are tried in the court of public opinion. Bayer still sold Aspirin and Heroin under those names when they lost those trademarks. Kleenex is in danger of losing their trademark on the term, simply because people use it as a generic term for facial tissues, more than as a reference to their brand. So even if you have a product by that name, you can lose that trademark if the public does not understand that it is yours only, or if it confuses customers. Try opening a retail store called ElectronicsHack or Radio Hack, or ElectroShack, and you may well lose in court to RadioShack, who's pre-exisiting and popular brand is similar. "iPhone" is very similar to iMac and iPod and iTunes and many other Apple products. If you said "iPhone" to the average person last week before Apple had released their product and while Cisco was selling a product by that name, most people would have thought you were talking about something from Apple. As such, Cisco is likely to lose their trademark in any case and the courts could hand it over to Apple, who holds it in other countries. The legal system is confusing and complex and I would not say that that is the case, but I would not be surprised either. Likely, Apple and Cisco will come to a settlement.
Goodbye SideKick II, Hello Apple iPhone! (Score:2, Insightful)
I then upgraded to the Sidekick II - color screen, better radio, speakerphone, etc. and all was right with the world. However, I got tired of still not being able to develop my own software and being left out of all the other goodies that are not provided by T-Mobile (i.e. Google Maps). I was reasonably happy with T-Mobile but didn't like the fact that they controlled the system with an iron fist.
Finally, my patience has been rewarded! The Apple iPhone looks like the answer to all my hopes and dreams for a mobile device. I used to have, and love, a Newton MessagePad 120 but it fell down the stairs one day and broke. I think this will be the ultimate mobile device and I am saving my pennies right now to purchase one. And just for the record, I don't think a $350 premium over an 8GB iPod Nano is too much to ask for all the functionality this thing brings to the table.
My only question is: will we be able to develop software for it? And if so, will we be able to install our own stuff? I really would like to be able to SSH into my work machines, but they are behind a VPN. Can I install a proxy and get to them? What about just plain old SSH access? Hell, can I run OS X's Terminal app on it?
Re:Leopard? (Score:3, Insightful)
I think indirectly we did learn something about Leopard. Since the iPhone will be available in June, and will be running Mac OS X, that will amost certainly be Leopard, although probably a lite/embedded/CE version. Still, I expect that a lot of the stuff they had to develop for the iPhone will also be included in the 'big' version, both in/as applications and stuff for developers.
Re:Great phone, shitty provider (Score:2, Insightful)
Reread the slides (Score:3, Insightful)
Fairly nice hardware, but just another example why putting a phone and a computer together is crazy. Once you say cellphone you have to deal with the cell carriers and all they want to do is lock you into long contracts and screw you hard. Computers have hardware refresh cycles as do cell phones and the two are rarely in sync, and neither will be in sync with your contract expiration. Combine anything else you want into an integrated device but leave the phone seperate and linked via bluetooth.
Nokia is a cellphone company and they are the only one smart enough to leave a phone out of their entry in the portable computer/pda/internet device game. That is a clue Steve, and you missed it.
Re:You're wrong. (Score:5, Insightful)
Quoth wikipedia: "An operating system (OS) is a computer program that manages the hardware and software resources of a computer. At the foundation of all system software, the OS performs basic tasks such as controlling and allocating memory, prioritizing system requests, controlling input and output devices, facilitating networking, and managing files. It also may provide a graphical user interface for higher level functions."
Note the fact that GUIs are optional.
Ubuntu and Debian are just different package preferences and userland utilities running on the same OS, Linux. Ubuntu forked the installer, layout, and some of the organizational structure, but their kernels and userland utilties are built from the same damn source.
Your initial comment was this:
"You can be certain that the OS X that runs on the iPhone is a distant relative of the OS X that runs on the desktop. The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile. Think fork."
XP and Windows mobile do not share a kernel, nor do they share userland utilities, because windows was not designed with scalability in mind. A GNU/Linux system, however, because it was designed with scalability in mind, can be run just as easily on an ipod as a desktop computer. Obviously some userland packages are too bloated, but the OS itself does not fork.
My point was that your assertion that the os x that runs on the iphone must not be related to desktop os x is wrong. I've looked at the darwin sources, and the kernel could certainly be built for an embedded environment. They might need to introduce compile-time options into their userland utilities to allow them to build memory-efficient versions, and such, but there is *no reason why they would need to fork os x*. In fact, there's no reason why the iphone and desktop versions of os x couldn't build off of the same set of sources. My original point was that if they were smart enough to make their OS and applications scalable there's no reason why they'd need two codebases.
Compare to *original* iPod, not current iPods (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Contracts (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, why is the battery time just 5-16 hours? You mean, you have to keep the thing charged most of the time? Might as well be a laptop, then (and at these prices it pretty much is).
It also seems a little bulky for a phone. It's essentially designed for women with handbags. It's not likely to fit into my pocket without fear it'll break.
My guess is that early adopters will get it and use it, but for the general masses, this won't be something they get for another 6 years, unlike the iPod.
Re:Bigger implications (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that CDMA is only in the US, and the rest of the World uses GSM means that most cool phones will be for GSM networks, as it has been all this time. If you want cool phones, use a GSM service. If you're fine with crappy CDMA phones, then by all means, stick with that. Don't expect this situation to change, as that's just how the economics work out. CDMA is not nearly as big of a global market as GSM.
No processor or RAM specs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tech specs available at apple.com (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:wear and tear (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone... (Score:2, Insightful)
It would seem that this device is a testament to the company's skill in hardware and software. Have not a lot of people pointed out that this is essentially a Mac computer in a smaller package? This isn't a app layer on top of Symbian or Palm OS - this is a variant of the OS running on millions of computers today. And I wouldn't say that Apple, Inc. is exactly losing money on the computer business. Weren't people complaining a year ago that the move to Intel was a sign of the end? Seems like there were a lot of MacBooks sold the 2nd half of last year.
If your point is that it appears Apple is trying to turn a corner, I agree. It wouldn't be the first time they took a gamble at reinventing themselves, and this looks like a good way to start.
Where do T-Mo have poor service? (Score:3, Insightful)
In the UK they had 95% coverage versus vodaphones 97%, but that's not a vast difference. In Colorado their coverage seems as good as any digital service, and my phone works fine in my basement when Cingular and Verizon handsets scarely work standing on the roof.
I'm one bar short of full service in my current office and got decent coverage in my last one.
The only problem i've seen is that some of their handsets have subpar reception, particularly the tiny samsung ones.
Am i exceptionally lucky or is this an outdated myth?
Re:Battery life? (Score:3, Insightful)
The fatal flaw, if there is one, is likely the total lack of buttons. The claim that texting will be better than with a true thumb keyboard and the total lack of tactile feedback are real questions. Most other products have really suffered with this approach.
Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad (Score:5, Insightful)
It's clearly an iPod second. After all, if you were to have a smartphone without mp3 playing capability, you'd look pretty silly.
Re:Contracts (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to pick on you a little bit since yours is the first post I've read mentioning battery life. Why is that such a big deal? I could understand if you were literally going to be on the phone all day, but assuming you'd have a more normal usage pattern, why is it so difficult to drop a phone into a dock (which they mentioned the iPhone will have) or plug in a charger when you get home at the end of the day? Sure, longer battery life is always nice, and I don't always remember to keep my phone charged either, but is having to plug in a cord once a day really such a hassle? :)
A more important issue to me would be, does the iPhone have an "offline" mode that turns off the phone while still letting you use the iPod, say, on a plane?
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:1, Insightful)
You can speculate, or you can wait to find out the facts. I know which one I vote for.
thin and standby power management (Score:4, Insightful)
They were a bit cagey on the battery life I admit. this one clearly has varying modes of use. PDA mode with screen and CPU churning. Idle PDA with screen dimmed, and cell-phone mode, wi-fi on. blue tooth on. etc... No mention of stand-by time.
I'm thinking they are being cagey because they are still developing the power management software and don't really know. They probably still have wads of debugging code in this and have not optimized a lot of it since it's obviously running on yet another cpu. THey did the same thing at the debut of OSX and then of intel, not beiing totally clear about the power management.
On the other hand, the track record on the ipod is that they tend to underspec the battery life. Or rather they spec it for normal usage not minimal settings like other brands do. So those are lower bounds I imagine.
Re:Bigger implications (Score:3, Insightful)
I strongly disagree. What is most important is the number of [potential] subscribers who are within your coverage area. It's not useful to have coverage where no one ever goes.
Re:An interesting time for Mac developers (Score:1, Insightful)
- about the same size, though 37.5% heavier, without memory expansion but with adequate flash integrated
- gives up ALL buttons in favor of a double screen and interesting, new multitouch interface.
- offers no integrated apps that the blackjack doesn't (though the double-size screen is good for content)
- fails to offer any 3G data capabilities
I'm also not sure why you think existing Mac development experience is valuable since the Mac GUI is notably absent. Claiming that this device runs OS X is like claiming that Windows Mobile Smartphones run Windows. The device is a new form factor with a substantially different display, a totally new input method, and most likely and new binary format.
I'm as curious about it as any, but it's still just a smartphone with some interesting, different features and some potentially serious liabilities. I sure hope the device has a real iPod dock connector and headphone jack. The only "revolutionary" aspect of the device is the multitouch interface which is new to the market but not originally from Apple. Hopefully the interface will be compelling rather than infuriating.
Re:EDGE, not HSDPA? Please. (Score:3, Insightful)
Shut up, this is Apple you are talking about. What they picked is GREAT, obviously the other options suck, otherwise Apple would have picked them.
Seriously, imagine the howls of laughter has Microsoft tied a major new product to an outdated technology. But it's different with Apple.
But your point just illustrates why putting a phone and a pda/mp3 player together is a bad idea. Both are evolving too fast, so any combined device is either obsolete at introduction (like iPhone) or you end up needing to replace them at double the speed to keep up. But with a cell phone in the mix you are stuck with the slow two year service contract cycle. Really, imagine the sort of clueless yuppie tech junkie with tons of disposable income who will be lining up in June to buy of these puppies. Anyone think they aren't going to be pissed when the realization sinks in they are stuck with it until June 2009 as new higher spec units roll out every six months?
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Contracts (Score:3, Insightful)
What remains to be seen with the iPhone, is how much is it other than the initial cost of the phone? What kind of plan do you need to use these new features-- what's the monthly?
At any rate, I hope the iPhone takes off like the iPod-- serious competition in the wireless market is a Real Good Thing(TM) IMHO, and Steve Jobs is about as good a candidate as their could be for converting that little bit of market pressure into a freight train...
Re:Fluffer (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would anyone EVER buy a hammer? This rock I have just picked up does exactly the same thing it does.
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:2, Insightful)
"Isn't that wonderful?"
Fanboys go wild...
The strategy (Score:3, Insightful)
All cell phone carriers have spotty radio coverage and poor customer service. This is unavoidable. If Apple becomes a private label carrier then the Apple brand has to absorb the damage of being in the cell carrier business. There's no reason on earth why Apple would want that.
So they partner with Cingular. Then, either the iPhone flops or it wildly succeeds. (Given the development costs that went into it, anything short of define-a-new-subculture success can be counted as failure.) If it succeeds and drives substantial consumer demand to Cingular, then every other carrier will find a way to have one. Most likely they will all do deals with Apple, just like they all did deals for the Treo.
If, unthinkably, Apple was dumb enough to sign an exclusivity agreement with Cingular, then we get to see what vPhone and sPhone and T-Phone look like (my guess on the vPhone: you interact with it as per a Rubik's Cube, except it costs you a buck every time you turn something).
-Graham
Re:June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil? (Score:2, Insightful)
$500 is more than half a month's mortgage payment. It's two months car payments.
Now, if I were a 20 year old and still living at home, that probably wouldn't be much money to throw around.
I feel sorry for anybody who lives in a region of the United States where $500 isn't a lot of money.
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple "computer" introductions are now a separate matter. Think about it. In the past, when Apple was (basically) the sole PPC user, they were responsible for everything - of all the PC vendors (HP, Dell et al) they were the only ones designing their own system chipset. Then, it was actually meaningful to introduce such things at major events because there was no visibility otherwise. Now - it's up to Intel, and Intel is generally responsible for and publishes the underlying technology roadmap.
You want to know Apple's "computer" roadmap? Look at Intel's published roadmap. When Intel introduced the Core Duo, you knew more or less Apple was going to introduce Core Duo machines soon after. Same for Core 2 Duo. When Santa Rosa shows up in April, you also know new MB(P)s based on that will show up.
CPU "refreshes" simply aren't important enough to warrant a keynote introduction any more - the intel imac introductions etc were different and important and warranted a macworld keynote introduction because those were the *first* intel macs. all future macs, unless they introduce something new and interesting (or if apple's product lineup has seriously run dry) are unlikely to warrant any further keynote introductions. There's absolutely nothing to stop the Apple.com home page being updated in the future with a "quiet" introduction of octo-core Mac Pros.
But right now - and I think you're seriously underestimating the significance of the iPhone introduction on the players of the phone industry - the iPhone is *it*. It really is what is worth talking about right now.
No matter what their production output is I do not believe the apple stores will be able to keep it in stock. They've staked out the high ground in terms of phone functionality, and all the other players are now left with having to basically compete on price, and higher-cost western producers - that means Motorola and Nokia et al - are NOT going to be able to compete in that space, squeezed between Apple on the top and the upcoming Chinese manufacturers at the bottom. This is a serious disaster for Nokia which has been trying for ages to become a "new computing platform" (didn't they ban their employees from calling their devices "phones"?).
the "fundamental unifying characteristic" of all phones so far has been the keypad, and Apple just decided they weren't going to play there. Considering the careful patent protection apple must have put in place, any alternative implementation of a non-keypad interface must end up being klunky as hell, and there's going to be simply no way for anybody else (and this is going to include Microsoft) to compete (bar some amazing genius in their staff who comes up with a new UI idea completely out of left field
Everybody kept saying "well MS never gets anything right until version 3.0 anyways" when they were comparing the Zune with the iPod. Well, Zune 3.0 can be the perfect MP3 player, but it won't matter, because this is the end of the "plain MP3 player" market dominance. sure they'll still continue to be sold, but the analysts who were talking about iPod sales levelling off or plunging in 2007 were, in fact, correct - but not because it's being taken over by external competition. I've dealt with windows mobile phones. they do not compare in any way with the UI of the iPhone.
The only problem with the iPhone I can think of is basically personal safety. Think of the mugging potential.
Re:"Never seen a presentation like this before" (Score:2, Insightful)
It's an HTC Universal, released in 3Q 2005- sometime in April-June, I'm not sure when. That will make it two years old when the iPhone is released in the mainland US. Look up the spec sheet sometime- 3G/UMTS, VGA screen, etc.
So... we've both seen the same Apple Demo... and you haven't held my phone... and you claim I'm lying. That's intelligent debating right there! The interface is the standard WM5 interface- I press the green phone-answer button which always brings you straight into the phone screen (or picks up the call, obviously, if it's ringing) and then dial the number from the dialpad, or press contacts to enter the contacts screen. I press the red-end button to end a call or return to the desktop from anywhere. It's about as simple as the phone can get without a dedicated phone keyboard. Not to mention the fact that my phone ALSO has a touch screen, and the interface is as simple as I've seen- plus, it's skinable! You could turn it into Apple's interface, if you felt like it.
The things Jobs did in his demo- sending a picture via e-mail while in a call- is things I've been able to do on my phone forever, it's built straight into the OS. I expect this sort of thing from my phone. Those are basic things, not magic techniques that have never been applied before.
Now I know you're just an idiot. Apple's MP3 players are rediculously horrible compared to the competition. Anyone with half a brain shouldn't use one, and I advise all my friends not to get one. Me? I just play music... from my phone! (Which, by the way, gets approximately 18 hours of battery life playing music when I I set it into music mode, with processor and radios offline, and it gets approximately 5 hours of wifi, phone, and full use.
Touchscreen Keypads Suck! (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no tactile feel. I can dial a $20 cell phone without having to see or hear it. I've used touchscreen keypads on existing phones already and you have to look when you dial.
And you make it sounds like Apple invented the keypad-less phone. Did you happen to miss the dozen phones that have been out for years now that lack a dial pad?
Re:June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil? (Score:2, Insightful)
While I think iPhone is nifty, I'd like it a whole lot better if it didn't have a camera. (Can't have a camera when I go into government buildings.) As always, of course, YMMV.
Re:Contracts (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Touchscreen Keypads Suck! (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
For a phone? Yes, I'd say so.
Re:Touchscreen Keypads Suck! (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't Apple know this? How can you down-arrow without an arrow?
Don't they know about the Nomad?
Re:Computers? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was wondering the same thing. In fact, I had the same reaction to the iTV that I had to Widgets when they were first announced: this is nice enough, but it seems more like an upgrade to an existing apple product than like a revolutionary new thing.
Then I thought a bit more about the Widget analogy. With hindsight, I can now see the real purpose of Widgets. They're certainly useful on their own, but the long-term purpose of introducing them was to get lots of developers writing useful little stripped down programs--which will now be available on the iPhone. Widgets were what you might call a wedge technology. And Dashborad was just the thin end of that wedge.
So I have to assume that's what iTV is. I'm willing to bet that somewhere in Steve Job's desk is a timeline showing when they'll introduce TiVo like functionality to the AppleTV. (or, for that matter, merge the AppleTV and the iPod into an Archos-like device.) By the time that happens, they'll have had a few generations of experience to work out the basic bugs with the product, and perhaps to develop an ecosystem of third-party software and hardware designed around iTV.
Re:Leopard and June 1 (Score:2, Insightful)
I think V-Rally on the old SE P800/900 range showed a racing game with a reasonable control method, but far from ideal.
Was there any mention of J2ME support on the iPhone? The majority of mobile gaming seems to do a fairly decent job of handling 3D via Java now (look at Helistrike, Ashphalt 3D, etc.), and its getting mature enough to make a viable gaming platform.
Re:no pictures of the back (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess they don't see the potential of video chat... or perhaps they see the potential of sex video chat, since you can point the camera to your genitals while looking at the other party's.